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View Full Version : How to end the defensive meta?



Kryltic
03-04-2018, 07:20 PM
I feel Ubisoft are going about this in entirely the wrong way. It seems a large number of people don't want the game to end up as an entire cast of Shamans and 50/50 characters. The number of attacks/combos with either insane damage or speed combined with the increase of unblockables and Hyper Armour is how Ubisoft feel it should be countered. I strongly disagree.

Wouldn't an easier solution be;
To remove the ability to parry light attacks
To increase the chip damage when blocking
When parrying the defender still takes chip damage but it is halved
Finally, chip damage can kill

As a side note, obviously the amount of chip damage would vary depending on the character/class in question and heavies should be immune to chip damage kills. Possibly the same for Heavy Hybrids.

BarbeQMichael
03-04-2018, 08:46 PM
In this aspect the game is actually relatively realistic. In a duel between 2 inexperienced fighters the more aggressive will win, but with skilled fighters the defensive one will win, statistically.

For parries I have kind of mixed feelings, for one I don't get why I should get better rewards for parrying low damage (well mostly low damage) light attacks, but lower damage for parrying high damage attacks. And if I parry 2 600ms attacks, one being light and the other one is heavy, why only the former rewards me with heavy damage but the latter doesn't, even when both require the same amount of effort.

RenegadeTX2000
03-04-2018, 09:07 PM
What the devs need to do is make more Universal changes like the back dodge change they are working with... The next in my opinion should be is blocking heavies. It should be more of a threat and blocking one should reward more chip for the attacker. You can already see Heavies coming from a mile away but throwing heavies out would be more rewarding for the attacker while also the defending player having a chance to react. It's a healthy change... Would see more heavies than lights being thrown and the game would be more about spacing then "light spamming, or block everything."

Also would help out shugoki and Centurion a ton. Shugoki could actually attack for a change for he should have the greatest heavy chip damage in the game.

WastedPunk
03-04-2018, 09:23 PM
Wouldn't an easier solution be;
To remove the ability to parry light attacks
To increase the chip damage when blocking
When parrying the defender still takes chip damage but it is halved
Finally, chip damage can kill.

Making lights immune to parry is the worst thing you can do.It will turn the game into an even bigger spam fest than it already is.
Peacekeepers,Gladiators,shinobis, Berserkers etc will S H I T on everyone with pretty much 0 effort.
Making chip dmg kill will just turn the game into "Press R2 to win" and everyone will throw out senseless lights and heavies.

jordan-tanton
03-04-2018, 10:08 PM
I feel Ubisoft are going about this in entirely the wrong way. It seems a large number of people don't want the game to end up as an entire cast of Shamans and 50/50 characters. The number of attacks/combos with either insane damage or speed combined with the increase of unblockables and Hyper Armour is how Ubisoft feel it should be countered. I strongly disagree.

Wouldn't an easier solution be;
To remove the ability to parry light attacks
To increase the chip damage when blocking
When parrying the defender still takes chip damage but it is halved
Finally, chip damage can kill

As a side note, obviously the amount of chip damage would vary depending on the character/class in question and heavies should be immune to chip damage kills. Possibly the same for Heavy Hybrids.

These types of posts are starting to annoy me a bit tbh.
why are you trying to force people to be aggressive in the fights all the time? Defensive and offensive styles of play should both be made viable options people shouldn't have to play just one way.

Dont agree with anything you suggested and this is coming from a mostly agressive warlord lol

brashtralas
03-04-2018, 10:15 PM
I feel this wouldnfurther ruin 4v4 modes. I like that youíre making suggestions to fix a problem, I just donít think this is the solution.

Kryltic
03-04-2018, 11:44 PM
Sorry forgot to put it (I must have removed it without realising) Id also add light blocks do no chip damage. My mistake but and one I need to correct.

I say this because pure defensive/counter offensive olay shouldn't exist. You should have a fair chance to win with pure aggression as well as turtle play.

Jordan-tanton. They can annoy you all you want, players should never be forced into a purely defensive or offensive fight based on the meta. Both should be viable unless you jump into a fight with virtually no health.

Psykhozis
03-05-2018, 02:59 PM
does it still feel like defensive meta? its all about mind games now. the more chaotic u play the bigger the result.

Veerdin-Wraith
03-05-2018, 03:11 PM
I also feel that the recent parry changes did quite a lot to dissuade the turtle meta. The only "turtle" characters I end up facing are the ones that are supposed to be defensive (Conq and Warlord pretty much) with the main focus of high level play being more about reactions, predictions, feints, mind games and mixups. Could it be refined more? Sure. I've occasionally fought against those crazy buggers that do nothing but feint, parry, light, rinse and repeat. But they're a lot less of a problem now days.

swiss_soldier_1
03-05-2018, 03:44 PM
I'm a huge supporter of chip damage to discourage turtling, and i repropose this post that didnt get any attention but it actually should.

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1833662-How-to-kill-the-defensive-meta-for-good?highlight=defensive+meta+good

BTTrinity
03-05-2018, 05:31 PM
What about making block cost stamina?

Baturai
03-05-2018, 06:24 PM
The best Way is like i Mentioned Befor. Passive skill Tree. or Items which increase physical values with penalties.
that People can choose in any mode. you should be able to customize your characters potential and work on its weak points
some of those values woud be : Attack range dodge Stun endurance, Hp, Guardmode guard recovery and so on...


Example Samurai fraction:

There should be 3 Types Of Weapon
3 Types of Armor

Weapon Long Range

Long Odachi (Only Nobushi)Mixed: Increase Damage by 20% 10% Attack Range Heavies are slower but faintable into lights 2. followup heavy is Hyperarmor. 10% More chipdamage
O KAtana Assassine : Increase damage by 5% 5% Attack Range Heavies are a bit faster 2. followup is unblockable. Normal chipdamage
Odachi (only Kensei) Vanguard : Increase damage by 15% 10%% Attack Range Heavies are normal 1. Heavy Unblocable 2. followup hyperarmor 5% More chipdamage

Weapon Midrange:

Nodachi Vanguard: Increase damage by 10% 10% Attackrange Heavies are faster 2. follow up Hyperarmor Normal Chipdamage
Katana(only Orochi) Assassine: Increase damage by 20% Normal Attackrange Heavies are Faster 2. Follow up faibtable into light 10% More Chipdamage
Tachi Mixed: Increase damage by 10% 5% Attack range Heavies are Normal 1. Heavy Unblokcable 2. followup hyperarmor 5% More chipdamage

Weapon Close Range;
Vanguard and Mixed O Katana : Increase damage by 5% 5% Attack range Lights are faster 3. followup heavy unblockable. Cant guardbreak while feint. Normal chipdamage
Wakizashi Assassine Increase damage by 5% no Attackrange lights are faster 3. followup bleed no gb while feint. no chipdamage.
Ninjato (only shinobi) Assassine: Increase damageby 20% no Attackrange Lights are faster 2. followup Bleed. no gb while feint normal chipdamage



ARMOR

Armor
Vanguard Armor : More Hp, Slower dodge, ( Faster guard recovery after dodge but no parry possible) Damage reduce 10% no Reflex Guard Shoulderbash Shove Kick have less impact.
Assassine Armor: Less Hp Faster Dodge ( Slower guard recovery reflex parry possible) Damage reduce - 5% Reflex Guard
Mixed Armor: Less Hp Normal Dodge (Normal Guard recovery no reflex guard) Damage reduce +5% Reflex and Vanguard Guard on stance ( not dodge)

What you Think ?