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View Full Version : Give Orochi something....



Tobias96716
02-26-2018, 12:23 AM
Give Orochi something to open people up....this is getting beyond annoying....

bob333e
02-26-2018, 12:37 AM
No.

Turning this game into a bashfest isn't the solution. Just because other heroes have a bash from neutral, doesn't mean every hero should have a bash from neutral. If I may put it in the most simple manner: unblockable bashes from neutral are the true cancer of this game. Not lightspam. Not Shaman.

I'm a Warden main, and while I appreciate that I have a shoulderbash that I can chain in and out of, I absolutely hate the fact that
1) it is spammable (vortex)
2) Warden is heavily dependent on it if he wants to be actually threatening
3) It doesn't involve using his damn sword, he's using his shoulder
4) Taints the Warden's reputation down the sewers because of all the vortex spammers.

At the same time, I remain skeptical concerning Warden's rework. I don't really like the new Zerk and the new Conq (only the new Kensei), and all the recent wave of memes and silly gay things in the game are making me less and less immersed. Warden's rework is going to be the last straw. He's who I use 90% of my time on For Honor.

And yeah. I don't really want his shoulderbash. If they absolutely can't get rid of it, for lack of creativity / invested effort into reworks, then at least they should make it less spammy. Anything to help him get a good image, really. Poor guy has been the prospect of "bash spam" since the game's launch.

I hate unblockable bashes from neutral. They mean you can't land a hit unless you stun/stagger your opponent first. Combat-wise, this is poor logic. This is a lazy way to circumvent defense. We don't need more unblockable bashes from neutral in this game. We need less, actually.

Let's not inflict Orochi with cancer, shall we. We have enough cancer already.

Tobias96716
02-26-2018, 12:45 AM
Screw that...the Orochi opener is already in the game...its that high round house kick that the Orochi without the mask uses in test your mettle....i can't remember his name....just give us a opener something EVERY Orochi user has been pleading for...

bob333e
02-26-2018, 12:48 AM
Tozen. And his kick can in no way be given to Orochi. Because his kick is a 400ms unblockable from neutral that insta-knockdowns and does a OOS drain. You call this "opening an opponent up"?

Besides, boss movesets aren't tailored for player characters. Boss movesets were designed to be overpowered from the get-go. They won't work per player character rules.

EvoX.
02-26-2018, 01:00 AM
That roundhouse kick is something else. I don't know why Tozen always seems to do a GB after it, but getting OOS'd and knocked down just like that is hilarious. I'd totally give that move to Orochi on the 1st of April just to watch the chaos.

Anyway, it's very likely Orochi is one of the next in line characters for a rework/rebalance. Hang in there.

Zordrage
02-26-2018, 01:02 AM
Tozen. And his kick can in no way be given to Orochi. Because his kick is a 400ms unblockable from neutral that insta-knockdowns and does a OOS drain. You call this "opening an opponent up"?

Besides, boss movesets aren't tailored for player characters. Boss movesets were designed to be overpowered from the get-go. They won't work per player character rules.

Why you guys ALLWAYS think devs would not Modify the numbers on these type of abilities ???
You people using these really bad excuses ( that its OP ) just to not give characters something they need....

Orochi right now BADLY needs a Can opener....

bob333e
02-26-2018, 01:10 AM
Why you guys ALLWAYS think devs would not Modify the numbers on these type of abilities ???
You people using these really bad excuses ( that its OP ) just to not give characters something they need....

Orochi right now BADLY needs a Can opener....

Because what would these moves do if they were nerfed nearly to the ground? they would change nothing. People want Apollyon's stab on Warden but how would that stab work if they nerf its damage, its tracking, and up its stamina cost?

When the bosses use them they make sense, when we use them, they become something else. Something much less viable. It's not excuses. It's common sense.

You saying you want a kick that will bash from neutral just for bashing from neutral, and guarantee a light? that's your ideal of... breaking your opponent's defense as Orochi?

Next thing you know, people like you are going to cry buff because well it's only one guaranteed light, and soon as players learn how to dodge and punish your kick, you'll say Orochi is trash again. See what I mean?

Unblockable bashes from neutral ultimately solve nothing.

Zordrage
02-26-2018, 01:14 AM
Because what would these moves do if they were nerfed nearly to the ground? they would change nothing. People want Apollyon's stab on Warden but how would that stab work if they nerf its damage, its tracking, and up its stamina cost?

When the bosses use them they make sense, when we use them, they become something else. Something much less viable. It's not excuses. It's common sense.

You saying you want a kick that will bash from neutral just for bashing from neutral, and guarantee a light? that's your ideal of... breaking your opponent's defense as Orochi?

Next thing you know, people like you are going to cry buff because well it's only one guaranteed light, and soon as players learn how to dodge and punish your kick, you'll say Orochi is trash again. See what I mean?

Unblockable bashes from neutral ultimately solve nothing.

warden wants a word with you..... about how unblockable bashes can change the character.... literally thats what makes the entire Warden Viable ...

also now you gone to the other extreme fully nerfing it to oblivion to not make it viable lol as i said excuses just to not have something.... devs can tweak anything on these stuff to actualy make it good you know...

bob333e
02-26-2018, 01:19 AM
warden wants a word with you.....

also now you gone to the other extreme fully nerfing it to oblivion to not make it viable lol as i said excuses just to not have something.... devs can tweak anything on these stuff to actualy make it good you know...

I'm a Warden main who actually uses the Warden instead of relying on an unblockable bash from neutral all the time. And if you think just because he has a shoulderbash then he's superior to Orochi, you're terribly wrong, but I won't attempt to argue.

Give me one example where a bash from neutral, on any hero, guarantees a heavy / top heavy / unblockable heavy. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

And I swear to God if you say Highlander, I'm throwing all this discussion out of the window. Highlander's Fomorian Kick and Caber Toss aren't from neutral. There, bolded it.

It's you looking for excuses to have a rather overpowered mechanic applied on Orochi, and achieve your wet dreams of salt-mining players who used to be the hardest turtles to you. There's always two sides to one coin.

bob333e
02-26-2018, 01:45 AM
Since you went silent, I'll go ahead and conclude then.

Orochi needs mixups. Mixups. Like Highlander has. Not bashes from neutral. Bashes from neutral shouldn't exist in this game.

Thank you for understanding. And remember that neither you or I make such decisions. No one wanted the top heavy on Zerk nerfed, yet they did it. Slashing Rush is pretty useful, yet they rendered it unfavorable. There's just no telling what they'll do with Orochi. We sit and wait.

End footnote: Kensei's pommel bash isn't from neutral either. Requires a feint.

wolfman25br
02-26-2018, 01:41 PM
Give Orochi something to open people up....this is getting beyond annoying....

No, he doesnt, unless you change him to a vanguard state.

He is a counter attack, he needs more tools to be effective in this area, more mix up and maybe some tweaks on speed/damage wouldnt hurt too.

Baturai
02-26-2018, 09:00 PM
give him vanguard... Because he isnt an Assassin at this Point. He is forced to Turtle more than ever. and every character in the game.
remove that guard recoverydelay after getting hit ( it is nearly impossible to block the second lightning light). Reflex guard is sucha ******** its useless. Latency makes it even more harder.
Make his DOdges as fast as Shinobi for better Deflect. His animation cd is too long. even toplight animation is too long.
if you compare Wardens zone to Orochi you might think that they both have same values, but you are wrong, Animation cd on Orochi is longer. has more frames.

The very same guy i ****in crush with my Kensei and Gladiator, isnt possible with my Orochi.. DOnt you devs compare heroes ? Wtf ?