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View Full Version : Free easy damage playing Kensei vs Highlander that needs to be addressed



mrmistark
02-25-2018, 07:18 AM
What’s going on friends. Firstly, I would like to say I am a Rep 10 Kensei and a Rep 7 HL, so I use these characters incredibly frequently as they are my 2 mains.I should also note that I am on Xbox.

So I first discovered this problem playing tribute. I was practically the only viable character on my team. My teammates were your very typical frustrating randoms: sprinting off to Cap the last flag when we have 2 resulting in continually losing all our flags, not grouping together with another teamate to prevent instant death ganks, ect. We’ve all been there and all know what I’m talking about.

Well, that being said, I kept running into this lone Kensei as HL when I was trying to guard our 2 flags when my team was flipping off. Now, Kensei has soft fient on every top heavy into side heavy or light. So, this Kensei chained side light into top heavy, making it impossible to block the side and on reaction switch guard for his counter strike afterwords.

Now this guy was smart. His block damage must have been incredibly high because on block of his heavies I was taking a light attack worth, maybe more. To combat this, I tried to start parrying. ALERT: horrible call. When trying to parry, the Kensei was able to soft fient into a side heavy. you’d think, ok, sounds like a trade for both sides right? WRONG! HL is so slow, Kensei has enough time to hit you with a soft fient side heavy and STILL PARRY YOU because HL has automatic HA on all heavies which means the hit doesn’t knock you out of the heavy start up, and when you fient the parry and try to change stance, the fient is too slow and you eat the side heavy, resulting in a very bad situation both ways.

This lead to an almost impossible match up we’re no matter what I tried to do, I couldn’t win (played 3 games against this guy to try to find a solution). He was so aggressive against my slowness that I couldn’t do anything to gain momentum.

No matter what I was stuck in an endless cycle:
1. Attempt to Counter Strike on reaction- with guard change it was too slow
2. Block all attacks- still eating pretty big free chip damage
3. Try to parry heavy- get hit with the soft fient and counter parried
4. Try to parry heavy- canceled when I saw soft fient, still too slow to change guard to block the soft fient

In all scenarios as HL, the best case was blocking and taking the half increment of health of chip damage.

I switched my gear stats to huge be chip damage instead of attack, and whenever I play as Kensei and see a HL, I’ve been using this tactic since to try and see if there is a good viable solution that someone has that I may see to combating this. Sadly, there is not any of which I have seen. It’s literally almost an auto loss unless they can parry your lights, but then on console, to do so you have to be playing super predictable for them to do so. Throw in a couple fients into light to start it off and even if they block it you’re off on a good start blocking out thier ability to counter strike your top hit. I also found against heavy counter strike users, you can fient to easily get a maximum and also predictable parry punish when they go for it.

Seeing Kensei as HL is a nightmare now. Luckily not many people know about this too much, but I think more and more people are catching on. PLEASE look into this and maybe Kensei recovery after soft feint. Thank you.

Alustar.
02-25-2018, 10:12 AM
I don't even think you could play a distance game with highlander either? Doesn't sound like that would yield too much. I know one popular tactic is using his back step while whiffing lights, then moving in on the heavies. I have yet to fully matter his zoning, though.

The_B0G_
02-25-2018, 10:27 AM
Hyper armor is kind of screwing the game in my opinion, so many moves have it now. Hyper armor should be reserved for heavy classes with slower attacks in my opinion.

Knight_Raime
02-25-2018, 11:02 AM
Hyper armor is kind of screwing the game in my opinion, so many moves have it now. Hyper armor should be reserved for heavy classes with slower attacks in my opinion.

Wouldn't really help out things on the extreme end though. if the move is slow enough/long enough the person simply sees the HA early and won't try to parry. Just block.
Or in highlanders case the HA comes late. To where you have to heavy on prediction (at least for opening heavies) to make use of the HA.

There is a sweet spot with HA where it actually will work and be useful. Simply delegating it to all slow attacks won't work.
and without HA characters like zerker and some of new kensei would be basically useless.
Really if you sit down and look at FH every solution just leads to a dead end where something frustrating awaits.

As annoying as it is to see HA and unblockables being thrown out like candy I prefer this kind of play over the over turtly play we used to have.
Though i'm sure if the rest of the OG cast becomes anything like new zerker i'd also probably put the game down as well. But I don't think that will happen.

The_B0G_
02-25-2018, 12:22 PM
Wouldn't really help out things on the extreme end though. if the move is slow enough/long enough the person simply sees the HA early and won't try to parry. Just block.
Or in highlanders case the HA comes late. To where you have to heavy on prediction (at least for opening heavies) to make use of the HA.

There is a sweet spot with HA where it actually will work and be useful. Simply delegating it to all slow attacks won't work.
and without HA characters like zerker and some of new kensei would be basically useless.
Really if you sit down and look at FH every solution just leads to a dead end where something frustrating awaits.

As annoying as it is to see HA and unblockables being thrown out like candy I prefer this kind of play over the over turtly play we used to have.
Though i'm sure if the rest of the OG cast becomes anything like new zerker i'd also probably put the game down as well. But I don't think that will happen.

In the Zerkers case I think they over did it with the unblockables, he has too many, I don't mind how kensei's used to be, even his now is kind of ridiculous, he can change directions twice and still be full hyper armor for 2 full seconds, meanwhile the HL only has his for the last 100 or 200 ms of his hyper armor attacks. That's the way hyper armor should be. Not just mashing out lights and heavies and never getting interrupted.

Knight_Raime
02-25-2018, 12:30 PM
In the Zerkers case I think they over did it with the unblockables, he has too many, I don't mind how kensei's used to be, even his now is kind of ridiculous, he can change directions twice and still be full hyper armor for 2 full seconds, meanwhile the HL only has his for the last 100 or 200 ms of his hyper armor attacks. That's the way hyper armor should be. Not just mashing out lights and heavies and never getting interrupted.

I think the unblockables he got were fine actually. the ability to constantly be in armor for like a full 3 seconds till stamina runs out is the obnoxious part for me. But zerk is playable now. and I don't struggle too hard with him. so I won't complain. So long as UBI doesn't make all fixes like his.

And even if that is the case with kensei the only trade worth going for on him is with his side heavy. and it's super slow compared to the rest of his kit. Kensei imo is basically perfect. and I want other reworks to get as much attention as kensei got.

HL's armor is useless outside combos. I don't know why you'd want to make armor basically pointless. it's really only relevant in team fights.

Redkey.
02-25-2018, 02:34 PM
I believe that this is already a systematic problem. There are a number of natural mechanics, such as feint, block or parry. And unnatural, such as an unblockable attack. For example, this is a physical sword, which for some unknown reason passes through physical objects, while moving slowly.
Yes, these are game conventions, but all this leads to a ragged gameplay, as the decision is not elegant. A positive bonus of combinations and special strikes could be natural, as seen in some characters. Sophisticated movements, unique blows. Based on how they play at high ranks, this mechanic must be transferred to the rails of feints.But more complex, tied into unique combinations.

Unfortunately, we are unlikely to see this. The latest PVE modes and change in the characters show that these people do not want to resurrect the game, or fix it. And just stick holes with a ducktape, until the ship slowly sinks.

Pier_Donia
03-17-2018, 06:24 AM
I play on both PS4 and PC (bought only a week ago on PC, as I also bought the game for a friend and my brother who refuse to play on console)

I exclusively play the warden and centurion competitively (ie, when I must win) although have played everyone (barring the highlander) extensively..

I find highlander to be the easiest opponent to defeat and after rubbing my opponents faces into the fact that they were noobs, I decided to try it out and realised that if fact, you have to work harder to win, than with any other class.

This is the case due to a few reasons:
*Note - I refer mainly to duel scenarios, which is where I am most familiar* (I have a 5.0 KD and 100% winrate on warden and 18.0 KD and 100% winrate on centurion since switching to PC)

1) His reactive guard switch is impossibly slow, with out abusing the guard-switching bug. Against a class like valkyrie, berserker or kensei you cannot even block all their lights, let alone think of parrying them.

2) Crushing counter is reduntant, as you cannot react with it and any player worth their salt will just feint you out.

3)He is to slow to attack offensively and he cannot even effectively turtle.

4) You cannot even effectively trade with hyper armour against most classes as his health is too low.


Please do not fix by just adding more health, that would be boring. He adds a little more complexity to a Zweihander wielding class than the warden does and he wears light to no armour. Making him faster and giving him the ability to effectively defend himself would be a far superior and fun route.

Thanks.

kanuzira
03-17-2018, 06:52 AM
I play on both PS4 and PC (bought only a week ago on PC, as I also bought the game for a friend and my brother who refuse to play on console)

I exclusively play the warden and centurion competitively (ie, when I must win) although have played everyone (barring the highlander) extensively..

I find highlander to be the easiest opponent to defeat and after rubbing my opponents faces into the fact that they were noobs, I decided to try it out and realised that if fact, you have to work harder to win, than with any other class.

This is the case due to a few reasons:
*Note - I refer mainly to duel scenarios, which is where I am most familiar* (I have a 5.0 KD and 100% winrate on warden and 18.0 KD and 100% winrate on centurion since switching to PC)

1) His reactive guard switch is impossibly slow, with out abusing the guard-switching bug. Against a class like valkyrie, berserker or kensei you cannot even block all their lights, let alone think of parrying them.

2) Crushing counter is reduntant, as you cannot react with it and any player worth their salt will just feint you out.

3)He is to slow to attack offensively and he cannot even effectively turtle.

4) You cannot even effectively trade with hyper armour against most classes as his health is too low.


Please do not fix by just adding more health, that would be boring. He adds a little more complexity to a Zweihander wielding class than the warden does and he wears light to no armour. Making him faster and giving him the ability to effectively defend himself would be a far superior and fun route.

Thanks.

He can feint heavy to kick to grab and get 40 free damage of it. If they want to buff this needs to go

Kahuf1
03-17-2018, 08:06 AM
He can feint heavy to kick to grab and get 40 free damage of it. If they want to buff this needs to go

Did u mention Highlander have to be in offensive stance and have NO DEFENCE and NO COUNTER GB? Lets try some match as Highlander and try to do this combo against some agresive assassin or conqueror... good luck :D

He definitly need some buff like deffensice stance opener. Look like his off stance emote. Just "push enemy away" with 1 hand. No damage, maybe little stamina damage, no damage after, just push enemy away and fastflow to off stace.