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VFS-214_Hawk
06-09-2007, 05:21 PM
What was the first American Plane shot at by the IJN fighters during thier attack on Hawaii?

VFS-214_Hawk
06-09-2007, 05:21 PM
What was the first American Plane shot at by the IJN fighters during thier attack on Hawaii?

tigertalon
06-09-2007, 05:26 PM
American built or American operated?

DKoor
06-09-2007, 05:30 PM
Here are new categories:

Shot at, not hit, survived
Shot at, not hit, but eventually crashed
Shot at, hit, but survived
Shot at, hit, crashed

Hmmm... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

EDIT*
I hope we all think about IJN air dept http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif.

K_Freddie
06-09-2007, 05:51 PM
P40 or a Dakota C47

VFS-214_Hawk
06-09-2007, 06:45 PM
Here I will re-ask the question.

What was the first American Plane shot at by the IJN fighters during thier attack on Hawaii?

berg417448
06-09-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm going to guess a civilian plane flying in the area of the attack.

AFJ_rsm
06-09-2007, 06:52 PM
bf109?

DKoor
06-09-2007, 06:53 PM
I was joking of course... well I'll certainly take a shot...

Let's see. B-17? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VFS-214_Hawk
06-09-2007, 07:04 PM
I really don't know. I always herd it was the Civilian Aeronca 65TC that was peppered by a Val Dive bomber that passed under them while the Val was en route to their target.

wayno7777
06-09-2007, 08:16 PM
That is shown in the movie Tora, Tora, Tora.....

eLWood_NY
06-09-2007, 08:17 PM
If memory serves me right, a Zeke shot at one of two F-14 Tomcats from the USS Nimitz. Both Zekes involved were splashed with one KIA and one EPW.

Rjel
06-09-2007, 08:22 PM
Lockheed Electra, flown by Amelia Earhart?

woofiedog
06-09-2007, 08:31 PM
The first Japanese casualty to American arms during WW-II was an aircraft shot down on Dec. 7th, 1941 by the Tautog.

On 7 December, 1941 Tautog was moored at pier two U.S. Submarine Base manned by one section of Submarine Division Sixty-One relief crew. Tautog has returned from a 45-day patrol on 5 December and only one fourth of the regular crew was on board. At 0750 several men on deck observed three planes flying in the general direction of the U.S. Navy Yard from over AIEA fleet landing. When the first plane dropped a bomb and turned revealing the insignia, it was realized that an attack was being made. General Quarters was sounded immediately and about 0755 the first cal. .50 machine gun was brought into action. Torpedo planes, some of which passed very close astern of Tautog had commenced an attack on Battleships moored at Ford Island. At about 0758 the fourth plane in line burst into flames with a loud explosion when about 150 feet astern of Tautog. Tracers from the after cal. .50 machine gun and the starboard cal. .30 machine gun were going into the fuselage of this plane at this time. U.S.S. Hulbert was also firing at this plane. It is certain that it was hit repeatedly by Tautog, no other ships in the vicinity had opened fire. Somewhat later in this attack a second plane was brought down in the same general area but at longer range. Tautog was firing at this plane but it is believed that it was hit by Hulbert. Other attacks were too distant for effective machine gun fire from Tautog.

Link: http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/wwii/pearl/ph88.htm

On December 7th, a flying boat PBY Catalina of No. 205 Squadron RAF, captained by Flying Officer Bedell, was shot down by Japanese aircraft while attempting to monitor the progress of the Japanese fleet. Flying Officer Bedell and his crew became the first Allied casualties of the war with the Empire of Japan.

"Seventy minutes before Pearl Harbor"
The landing at Kota Bharu, Malaya, on December 7th 1941

On Saturday, December 6, 1941, during a conference in Manila (the Philippines) between Admiral Thomas C. Hart, the commanding officer of U.S. Asiatic Fleet and Admiral Sir Thomas Phillips, the British naval commander, Far East, an American naval officer entered the room with an important message.


An Australian reconnaissance aircraft Lockheed Hudson from Malaya airfields had discovered the Japanese convoy had departed from Saigon, French Indochina. The plane commander, Flying Officer Ramshaw, reported at first only three ships sailed, followed shortly by at least another 25 transport ships. They were escorted by a battleship, five cruisers and seven destroyers [Ramshaw had mistaken the heavy cruiser for a battleship]. In his personal opinion, the ships were headed to neutral Thailand, or to Malaya Peninsula. This was no doubt a clear sign to both admirals that war was close. Both admirals reacted immediately. Four American destroyers in Balikpapan received orders to sail at open sea, while Rear-Admiral Arthur E.F. Palliser, Phillip's Commander-in-Chief, received instructions to order HMS Repulse to cancel its trip to Darwin, Australia, and return to Singapore as quickly as possible. More messages about the Japanese convoy followed. The British planes soon received orders to conduct further reconnaisance flights, but luck that day was on the Japanese side as bad, stormy weather prevented the British planes from taking off. At 7 p.m. the Japanese invasion fleet changed course and traveled north into the Gulf of Siam ...


The main Japanese attack force for the invasion of Malaya, Lieutenant General Tomoyuki Yama****a's 25th Army, had sailed from Samah Harbour on Hainan Island on December 4, 1941. Additional ships carrying more troops joined the convoy from Saigon, French Indochina. On both the 6th and 7th of December Lockheed Hudson aircraft flown by No.1 Squadron RAAF, Kota Bharu, and No.8 Squadron RAAF, Kuantan, spotted and attempted to shadow these ships.


On December 7th, a flying boat PBY Catalina of No. 205 Squadron RAF, captained by Flying Officer Bedell, was shot down by Japanese aircraft while attempting to monitor the progress of the Japanese fleet. Flying Officer Bedell and his crew became the first Allied casualties of the war with the Empire of Japan. At 10:00 a.m., the Japanese invasion convoy split up to reach their prearranged landing positions. The war in the Pacific was just about to begin.

Link: http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/kota_bharu.html

Taussig relieved the watch promptly at 7:45. His first duty of the day was to execute colors at 8 a.m. A 23-member band and color guard, with proper holiday colors for Sunday, stood ready. Taussig had to precisely follow the lead of the senior officer present afloat, Rear Adm. William R. Furlong on the minesweeper Oglala. At the proper signal, they would raise the national ensign aft and the blue, white-starred jack forward and play the national anthem, simultaneously. Taussig was determined to execute this ceremony in precise military fashion. The rest of the watch was easy in comparison. First call to colors sounded at 7:55. Few on deck noticed the planes buzzing around the harbor. The watch piped colors at 8 a.m., the flags went up and the band played. Only what they thought to be an inconsiderate Army aviator roaring low over Battleship Row marred the ceremony.

But this was no ill-timed Army drill. At 7:40 a.m. Japanese naval aircraft, led by Commander Mitsuo Fuchida, approached Kahuku Point, the northernmost tip of the island of Oahu. There, the main force broke into smaller attack groups, each proceeding to its primary target. Fuchida, in a Nakajima B5N torpedo bomber, accompanied the high-level bombers. Nevada was his plane's target. Torpedo bombers, dive bombers and high-level bombers formed up northwest of Kaena Point at 7:50. Five minutes later, the first bombs began to fall on both ships and Oahu's shore installations. Midway through the "Star-Spangled Banner" on Nevada, the first bomb exploded on Ford Island's seaplane ramp.


Link: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Welch1.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ehistoryzone/Welch1.html)

Welch and fellow pilot, Ken Taylor crawled into their beds at the Wheeler BOQ expecting to sleep in on a duty free Sunday morning. Just two hours into their party induced slumber, an unfamiliar rumble roused them to their feet. Running to the window, Welch was horrified to see smoke rising from burning aircraft on the field. Gazing up at a passing plane he noted the big red ball on the wings and fuselage. Japanese! Wheeler was being bombed by Japanese aircraft!

Leaping into the same clothes he had worn the previous evening, George raced from his room just as Taylor burst out of his door. Welch and Taylor had flown their P-40B fighters over to the small airfield at Haleiwa as part of a plan to disperse the squadron's planes away from Wheeler. George grabbed the telephone in the duty office and called Haleiwa. Getting the Duty sergeant on the line, he told him to see that both fighters were fueled, armed and warmed up. He and Taylor were on their way. Running at full tilt, the two pilots piled into Taylor's car. Racing for the base gate, they were strafed by a passing dive bomber. Once on the road to Haleiwa, Taylor drove at breakneck speeds, frequently pushing 100 mph, and covered the winding 16 miles of road in little more than 15 minutes. Sliding to a stop in a cloud of dust and gravel, both men raced to their P-40s, now warmed up and ready. Jumping into the cockpit, Welch listened as his crew chief said, "Lieutenant, we don't have any .50 caliber ammo here. All that you're gonna have is the .30s." "Ok" said Welch, as he got his harness buckled. The crew chief continued, "We got word that we should disperse the planes, sir." "The hell with that", said Welch, "get off." The crew chief slid off the back of the wing and George pushed up the throttle and taxied to the narrow airstrip. Ignoring the usual pre-takeoff check-list, George slowly fed in full power and roared off the grass with Ken Taylor two minutes or so behind him.

Link: http://www.ospreypublishing.com/content2.php/cid=74

According to the US Navy's Summary of War-Damaged Navy Ships A374 (published 15 September 1943), 20 torpedoes hit American ships. Only the 40 Mitsubishi 'Kate' torpedo bombers of the first wave carried torpedoes. The USS Nevada shot down one 'Kate' before it could release its load, so only thirty-nine torpedoes were dropped. Twenty found their mark, a 51% score for this strike. This was well below the 70%-80% scores of practice runs, but the planes were not being shot at while practising.

In the first wave 21 of the 49 800kg high altitude bombs scored direct hits on the battleships USS Arizona, California, Maryland, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and West Virginia; three more damaged the USS Oklahoma with near misses. The Japanese pilots targeting battleships had a 43% accuracy rate, 49% including near misses. In either case, the Nakjima B5N 'Kate's' level bombing was far better than predicted and much better than the 13%-14% achieved before intensive training. Aichi D3A1 'Vals' in the first wave carried 250kg bombs and dive-bombed the airfields.


Saburo Sakai- was Japan's greatest living WWII ace. He's credited with 64 kills of U.S. and Allied planes during the war, the highest score of any Japanese pilot to survive it. U.S. loss records corroborate his claims. He knocked down at least one of every type of plane the U.S. flew, including being credited with the first downing of a U.S. bomber in WWII, a B-17E, three days after the war started. He narrowly missed shooting down a B-26 that was carrying the future president, Lyndon Johnson. Sakai also claims to have shot down the last allied aircraft before WWII ended.

M2morris
06-09-2007, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
I really don't know. I always herd it was the Civilian Aeronca 65TC that was peppered by a Val Dive bomber that passed under them while the Val was en route to their target. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aww man I thought there was a big trick to the question or something like maybe there was a P-40 somewhere 1000 miles away from Pearl Harbor or something like that because of the word DURING the Dec 7th attack. Or maybe it was a Cox control-line model plane in Sandusky Ohio being shot at by a Japanese kid with a BB gun from the house next door.

Badsight-
06-10-2007, 01:04 AM
what was the nationality of the first guys captured during the beach invasion on D-Day ?

key word : beach

VFS-214_Hawk
06-10-2007, 06:18 AM
hehe nope. Here is the airplane shot at by a Val during the attack. I saw it in an EAA magazine years ago. The structure still has bullet damage. I dont recall a time that it was attacked or if something else was attacked at the same time in another location. However, this is soppse to be the first American airplane shot at....at least in the air! Currently on display on Ford Island
http://z.about.com/d/gohawaii/1/0/c/C/4/pam_011.jpg

Matz0r
06-10-2007, 06:25 AM
Ben Aflecks P40 in Perl Harbour, everybody knows that.... and they shouldn't have because he destroyed 10 zekes in a turn fight after.

Taylortony
06-10-2007, 06:38 AM
I have often wondered who started it all and I do not mean this to offend everyone, especially our American friends..

Big issues where made of the fact that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour without a state of war being declared between the two Nations, so was in the wrong...


07:55 The raid begins at Pearl Harbor as the Raleigh, Helena, Utah and Oklahoma are struck. But although the Aircraft were in the air prior to this and could have been recalled, not that they would have been

At 06:45 After searching for hours, the Ward fires depth charges and sinks the Japanese sub.

This action was BEFORE engagement and the attack at Pearl Harbour and was therefore an action against a submarine of the Japanese Navy before war had been announced, so the US Navy engaged and sank a Japanese Submarine during what was at the time a heightened state of tension, but not war between the countries.........


Does that make sense? the US states the Japanese attacked the US fleet in Harbour before war was announced, when hours previously the US Navy had already committed such an act...


http://www.time.com/time/sampler/article/0,8599,127924,00.html

VFS-214_Hawk
06-10-2007, 07:13 AM
It doesn't matter in this tread. Please no one reply to this...lets keep it on target.

BSS_CUDA
06-10-2007, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
I have often wondered who started it all and I do not mean this to offend everyone, especially our American friends..

Big issues where made of the fact that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour without a state of war being declared between the two Nations, so was in the wrong...


07:55 The raid begins at Pearl Harbor as the Raleigh, Helena, Utah and Oklahoma are struck. But although the Aircraft were in the air prior to this and could have been recalled, not that they would have been

At 06:45 After searching for hours, the Ward fires depth charges and sinks the Japanese sub.

This action was BEFORE engagement and the attack at Pearl Harbour and was therefore an action against a submarine of the Japanese Navy before war had been announced, so the US Navy engaged and sank a Japanese Submarine during what was at the time a heightened state of tension, but not war between the countries.........


Does that make sense? the US states the Japanese attacked the US fleet in Harbour before war was announced, when hours previously the US Navy had already committed such an act...


http://www.time.com/time/sampler/article/0,8599,127924,00.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
the question should more properly be what was a Japanese submarine doing inside the American defense perimeter during a time of strained relations between the two countries?

VFS-214_Hawk
06-10-2007, 07:50 AM
oh well, there goes another thread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Taylortony
06-10-2007, 08:28 AM
Sorry was not trying to hijack it, just expressing an opinion..........

If the sub was say Swiss in the perimeter would it still of been sunk?

berg417448
06-10-2007, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
Sorry was not trying to hijack it, just expressing an opinion..........

If the sub was say Swiss in the perimeter would it still of been sunk? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. You need to remember that they did not know the identity of the submarine. Only that it was inside a prohibited area.

BSS_CUDA
06-10-2007, 08:44 AM
any submarine INSIDE a prohibited defense perimeter, partially submerged to boot, with storms of war being talked about would be sunk. if it was an Allied or U.S. sub. first off it would have been on the surface. second there would have been radio contact with the harbor master and port authorities relaying their intentions and requesting a harbor pilot for entry into the port.

BSS_CUDA
06-10-2007, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
oh well, there goes another thread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>sry Hawk but you had already answered your own trivia question. so the post had already run its course, not to mention I was already responding to his post when you posted check the time stamp http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VFS-214_Hawk
06-10-2007, 08:58 AM
ok thread closed, go start another one...lol

I just hate it when guys do this....and no I did not answer my own question. I dont know what the first airplane was. I was hopping someone out there knew more. So basically it stands that no one knows at this time. Maybe we can find more info on it later. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

MEGILE
06-10-2007, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
ok thread closed, go start another one...lol

I just hate it when guys do this....and no I did not answer my own question. I dont know what the first airplane was. I was hopping someone out there knew more. So basically it stands that no one knows at this time. Maybe we can find more info on it later. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guys like TaylorTony just cannot help themselves... and are always at the center of threads like that.

Daiichidoku
06-10-2007, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F16_Matz_:
Ben Aflecks P40 in Perl Harbour, everybody knows that.... and they shouldn't have because he destroyed 10 zekes in a turn fight after. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

posted by Groucho at pilots pub, and slleazily ripped off by me for display here...but its SO good, couldnt resist:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2713/afflectactoriq9.jpg

djetz
06-10-2007, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
If the sub was say Swiss in the perimeter would it still of been sunk? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Switzerland is a landlocked country. The Swiss have never had a navy, let alone submarines. Where would they put a submarine? In an alpine lake?

2. "Still of" - please explain what this means.

Fox_3
06-10-2007, 10:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by djetz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
If the sub was say Swiss in the perimeter would it still of been sunk? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Switzerland is a landlocked country. The Swiss have never had a navy, let alone submarines. Where would they put a submarine? In an alpine lake?

2. "Still of" - please explain what this means. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Switzerland does have a small Navy of sorts. Comprised of ten patrol boats.

Taylortony
06-10-2007, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
ok thread closed, go start another one...lol

I just hate it when guys do this....and no I did not answer my own question. I dont know what the first airplane was. I was hopping someone out there knew more. So basically it stands that no one knows at this time. Maybe we can find more info on it later. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guys like TaylorTony just cannot help themselves... and are always at the center of threads like that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that is calling the Kettle Black

Snodrvr
06-10-2007, 08:27 PM
The first plane attacked at Pearl Harbor? If Tora Tora Tora is an accurate representation, the answer would be a Stearman trainer. If we realize it is fiction, we have to say the answer may never be known.

Many Planes, Civilain and Military, went missing on or shortly after Dec. 7th, and establishing the exact order in which they were attacked would be nearly impossible.

As for the D-Day question, I'd have to say the nationality of troops captured would be either Italian or French.

berg417448
06-10-2007, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
what was the nationality of the first guys captured during the beach invasion on D-Day ?

key word : beach </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read somewhere once that there were some Koreans among the first captured at Normandy.

Badsight-
06-10-2007, 11:23 PM
ding ding ding!

Termitedelight
06-10-2007, 11:56 PM
B-17's coming in from the mainland.

Billy_BigBoy
06-11-2007, 04:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eLWood_NY:
If memory serves me right, a Zeke shot at one of two F-14 Tomcats from the USS Nimitz. Both Zekes involved were splashed with one KIA and one EPW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I second that. In 1984 Hollywood even made a documentary about this historical incedent.

Vipez-
06-11-2007, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Billy_BigBoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eLWood_NY:
If memory serves me right, a Zeke shot at one of two F-14 Tomcats from the USS Nimitz. Both Zekes involved were splashed with one KIA and one EPW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I second that. In 1984 Hollywood even made a documentary about this historical incedent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree 110%. It was in year of our lord 1980. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

HotelBushranger
06-11-2007, 08:26 AM
Lies! Blasphemy! Burn the heretic!

Billy_BigBoy
06-11-2007, 11:47 AM
You are right Vipez-, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif a man's memory is his greatest lier.