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WastedPunk
02-21-2018, 02:07 PM
MOVED TO A SEPARATE THREAD because it's just PC and console fanboys arguing with each other.

The_B0G_
02-21-2018, 02:57 PM
Although I do understand where you're coming from, I do prefer this to defensive meta, this way we at least aren't all staring at each other.

EvoX.
02-21-2018, 05:04 PM
Unblockables means you either Guess their feint right or get hit or try to parry/dodge and get hit with their second attack.Meaning the game just turned into a 50/50 where it's a Fancy version of Rock,Paper & scissors rather than winning with skill.

I'm very curious to know what players think of this. I, personally, never enjoyed games that involved RNG, and it seems like FH is gravitating towards that ''guess right or die'' factor more and more. However, the core gameplay is there and still fun.

Protos_88
02-21-2018, 05:09 PM
i agre as warden i cant atack enemy with dodge, turtle, spam fest and no ending stamina, ahh and f fast run back without stamina, jump forward 30m

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 05:09 PM
come try spam on pc and see u'll be parried and killed , defense still > attack in every way possible .


if u play on pc come and try to spam me , in 1v1 and u will see what im talking about .

the game is headed into a good direction and thank you ubisoft for season 5 , suddenly no more staring meta

Protos_88
02-21-2018, 05:12 PM
come try spam on pc and see u'll be parried and killed , defense still > attack in every way possible .


if u play on pc come and try to spam me , in 1v1 and u will see what im talking about .

the game is headed into a good direction and thank you ubisoft for season 5 , suddenly no more staring meta

come on ps4...try to block or parry

Titanodragon
02-21-2018, 05:18 PM
This game needs to either start balance for console and PC or needs to focus on console where most the players are

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 05:28 PM
why would i play on any console :/ i had a ps4 and i sold it :/ gaming on pc is where esport is and for a good reason :/

console is for casuals and casuals can't speak about balance , sorry if that sounded rude not intended at all but it's a fact

Titanodragon
02-21-2018, 05:40 PM
Yeah your PC community is going to be huge in esports for this game.

Protos_88
02-21-2018, 05:40 PM
why would i play on any console :/ i had a ps4 and i sold it :/ gaming on pc is where esport is and for a good reason :/

console is for casuals and casuals can't speak about balance , sorry if that sounded rude not intended at all but it's a fact

haahaahaa
you meak my day

Devils-_-legacy
02-21-2018, 05:44 PM
(console is for casuals and casuals can't speak about balance , sorry if that sounded rude not intended at all but it's a fact)
Sorry but what makes you on pc have a better opinion then someone on console your hardly a esport compettitor yourself

mrmistark
02-21-2018, 05:49 PM
why would i play on any console :/ i had a ps4 and i sold it :/ gaming on pc is where esport is and for a good reason :/

console is for casuals and casuals can't speak about balance , sorry if that sounded rude not intended at all but it's a fact

I wasnít going to say anything, but then I saw this lol. It doesnít matter if pc players are ďwhere the competition isĒ when 90%, probably plus, of the player base is on console. How is it again that PC is the only players that can say anything about balance with their 10% of player base playing a COMPLETELY different game than the other 90% at 60fps? As stated above, they either need to bring them on to the same fps or balance them seperately.

To steal a line from your book, sorry if this sounds rude: but the only reason you SEEM better at the game as a PC player is the frame rate. Wait, I forgot, with a mouse you have literally every button you need at each finger tip too. Console allows you to only have certain contact points with the counter buttons than pc which has every button at your finger tips, and is forced to react in half the visual time. Tell me again how you as a PC player are more skilled than players who must react in half the time and read their opponent that much more? Id argue seasoned for honor console players have a better grasp on the game and what a character can and canít do then the majority of the PC base. I guarantee if you even tried to come to console youíd get destroyed 9/10 times.

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 05:51 PM
(console is for casuals and casuals can't speak about balance , sorry if that sounded rude not intended at all but it's a fact)
Sorry but what makes you on pc have a better opinion then someone on console your hardly a esport compettitor yourself

it was prooven that fps matter and low input lag also matters , so console can't have a proper esport , now do u want the game to be balanced for casuals or do u want the game to be balanced for high brackets and esport :/

if u want it for casuals :/ u can have ur turtle meta back not that i care so much but just giving a healthy opinion for the health of the game .

most games balance for pc and always consoles is their second choice :/ and that's for a reason , im not trying to start a console war here , but just saying a fact the game should be balanced arround high level and esport , i come from an rts games and i do understand that balancing can't be done on an inferior hardware and lower brackets .

Devils-_-legacy
02-21-2018, 05:55 PM
(it was prooven that fps matter and low input lag also matters , so console can't have a proper esport , now do u want the game to be balanced for casuals or do u want the game to be balanced for high brackets and esport :/ )bull **** Throughout the year, many Championships on the main PS4 games.
Several seasons to renew the pleasure of playing and regularly try to defend your title...
Divisions to find opponents to your own level.
Finales online and offline to become the true champion of the PlayStationģPlus LEAGUE !

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 05:55 PM
I wasn’t going to say anything, but then I saw this lol. It doesn’t matter if pc players are “where the competition is” when 90%, probably plus, of the player base is on console. How is it again that PC is the only players that can say anything about balance with their 10% of player base playing a COMPLETELY different game than the other 90% at 60fps? As stated above, they either need to bring them on to the same fps or balance them seperately.

To steal a line from your book, sorry if this sounds rude: but the only reason you SEEM better at the game as a PC player is the frame rate. Wait, I forgot, with a mouse you have literally every button you need at each finger tip too. Console allows you to only have certain contact points with the counter buttons than pc which has every button at your finger tips, and is forced to react in half the visual time. Tell me again how you as a PC player are more skilled than players who must react in half the time and read their opponent that much more? Id argue seasoned for honor console players have a better grasp on the game and what a character can and can’t do then the majority of the PC base. I guarantee if you even tried to come to console you’d get destroyed 9/10 times.

it was never about what i can or cannot do , maybe i'll be destroyed who knows :/ but still my opinion matter u cannot balance the game for inferior hardware nor lower bracket , it must be done at the highest level of play . and i do feel bad for consoles , but it's not the game problems it's sony and microsoft .


ps4 pro can have 60fps and same for xbox one x , but do u really want to cut the player base in half between pro and normal ps4 ?

Titanodragon
02-21-2018, 05:56 PM
it was prooven that fps matter and low input lag also matters , so console can't have a proper esport , now do u want the game to be balanced for casuals or do u want the game to be balanced for high brackets and esport :/

if u want it for casuals :/ u can have ur turtle meta back not that i care so much but just giving a healthy opinion for the health of the game .

most games balance for pc and always consoles is their second choice :/ and that's for a reason , im not trying to start a console war here , but just saying a fact the game should be balanced arround high level and esport , i come from an rts games and i do understand that balancing can't be done on an inferior hardware and lower brackets .

Don't act like this is a major esports game. We may all love this game. But we all know it won't be big in esports.

Devils-_-legacy
02-21-2018, 06:01 PM
Playstation has esports championships so? On top of that pc has the smallest player Base explain to me how catering to "high-level on pc" would be better for the health of this game then designing it around the high level play of console where there's more players that are active more new players join console then pc but please explain why you think your right?

Alustar.
02-21-2018, 06:28 PM
Esports are what's killing the gaming community. Should never have popularized, and most importantly monetized, something we are doing for fun. That's how you get bs arguments like balance issues and this...

WastedPunk
02-21-2018, 06:36 PM
Take your inner fanboy else where.
What you are saying is unrelated to the main topic.

WastedPunk
02-21-2018, 06:41 PM
I don't understand why,this thread turned into a console vs PC war.I could care less about the platform you game on.If you are selling a game for the same price on all platforms then,you should also balanced them accordingly.
I could argue over why I dislike PC but,that isn't what this thread is for.

Okita_Soji..
02-21-2018, 06:43 PM
So I play on Xbox and would not trade my setup for the best PC and to be the best player for honor has ever seen just to play on a PC. I am about average at the game but my setup doesn't help and I don't care. For the most part I have fun.

I have a home theater in my basement with an 11 foot wide screen, surround sound and a comfy couch. My Xbox is wireless connected as my router is up stairs. I use a wired controller to help but with the projector my reactions will never be as fast as I could on a PC Monitor. I can live with that cause ever since I moved the Xbox down stairs gaming has been awesome! You can't beat seeing everyting so big and feeling explosions while hearing the sounds of someone behind you.

No way does sitting in a chair at a desk 3 feet from a 20"ish monitor with headphones on compare. The reason there are more people on consoles is for the same reasons I play on my projector. Sitting back relaxing after work is how most people play. Casual play will always outnumber the hardcore PC players.

Not trying to start a war but I hate how it's always "on PC this is easy" when there is hardly any players on PC. The game should be based on console play at this point if the 4Kish PC players find it too easy then OK, they are the minority make the game better for the 100Kish console players. We are what will keep the game going.

Vakris_One
02-21-2018, 06:52 PM
Put the bulls***t elitism and platform politics away folks. At the end of the day we all play games for fun and on whatever platform is the most comfortable and/or affordable for us personally. The dev's job is to try to reach a balanced middle ground that accomodates all of their players as much as possible, casuals and pro's alike across all platforms.

Alustar.
02-21-2018, 07:06 PM
Sad truth is, you will never please everyone, and in trying you all alienate the dedicated, loyal players.
Make a change to help casual players and hardcore players will rant. Adjust something to help hardcore players and casual will claim their world is ending.

Developers have to keep a level of detachment, much the way surgeons do on an operating table. They are going to make changes to -their- intellectual property based on the needs of the community as a whole.
This means bugs and quality of life issues take priority to ensure stable, healthy play. Then you can focus on fan service issues.

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 07:08 PM
from day one u people knew its going to be balanced for pc first , no ?

remember the day when u complained about pk light spam , still pk is light spaming and nothing done about , and what after they introduced shinobi another light spam and after a glad , it was abvious from day 1 they are looking at the pc for numbers , no hate for ps4/xbox players , but it's ubisoft game and ubi dediced where to look at when it comes to balance , i really wish i didn't sell that ps4 to see is it really that hard to block/parry on console

The_B0G_
02-21-2018, 07:30 PM
from day one u people knew its going to be balanced for pc first , no ?

remember the day when u complained about pk light spam , still pk is light spaming and nothing done about , and what after they introduced shinobi another light spam and after a glad , it was abvious from day 1 they are looking at the pc for numbers , no hate for ps4/xbox players , but it's ubisoft game and ubi dediced where to look at when it comes to balance , i really wish i didn't sell that ps4 to see is it really that hard to block/parry on console

Why would we think that? When most of the PC player base abandoned the game early on. You don't have the numbers to compete with consoles, the devs either need to balance separately or balance for console, this is for purely business reasons, they want people to continue playing the game and occasionally buy steel packs. Now would it make sense to keep your smallest player base by far happy, or your much larger other player base.

I have a fast gaming PC that can play this max settings, I choose to play console because its a better experience than being cooped behind a desk staring at a small screen.

But back on topic. I also feel like many of the moves are becoming too fast, many mixups feel like a guessing game to me, fast lights and such I can deal with, my problem is the speed of unblockables that are feinted, there needs to be more commitment when using unblockables, not letting it go so far into the attack that my character parries thin air while its canceled and hits me on the other side.

Its infinitely easier on console to spam out your feint routine of super fast attacks than it is to react and defend against them, that's why every game you join has 6 or more assassin classes in it.

Jiblet2017
02-21-2018, 08:22 PM
why would i play on any console :/ gaming on pc is where esport is and for a good reason :/

console is for casuals and casuals can't speak about balance

Why? Friends are certainly one reason. Not everyone has a gaming computer. Many more play on console and most people prefer to play with friends or with a high population.

That being said, with that attitude friends are probably not a big part of your gaming experience :/

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 08:37 PM
Why? Friends are certainly one reason. Not everyone has a gaming computer. Many more play on console and most people prefer to play with friends or with a high population.

That being said, with that attitude friends are probably not a big part of your gaming experience :/

we game on pc and we like the experience better ( personal choice ) .

Mini1900
02-21-2018, 08:51 PM
GUY BEFORE U KILLING EACHOTHER; i just let u all KNOW, i ,m a PS4 and PC player, i got my rep on PC about 80 and on PS4 about 10, PS4 is just like another game, the feeling is NOT the same. On PS4 i CANT for ****ing sake parry a light easily, but on PC no problem at ALL, maybe i,m still a noob on Ps4 since i usually play on PC but i can for sure say that its not the same timing/feeling . Maybe becaus of fps i dont know.
But Like i said before in other thread, Adding unblockables might be good for 1v1 ( which i dont play as long as 4v4 ) but for 4v4 like dominion r unblockables VERY BAD !! You r down just too fast in gangfights , most time in 2v1 or 3v1, Since bullsheet like shamans, Predator thing push u all time against wall, or headbash of warlords, or shieldbash /zone of gladiator,kick of centurio, .. or .. or .. or. In Vanilla time, there were very intens gangfights which needed a lot of focus and we had good and bad time BUT we had a lot of fun, but this direction of too much unblockables, just destroied the game ( my opinion ) . And season V dont bring the good old days, Kensei might needed something new, but adding serker 2 unblockables, i mean JUST WHY ! idk if i really needed that, and i ,m a rep 9 serker , ! All i ,m saying here is about 4v4.

Knight_Raime
02-21-2018, 09:32 PM
Have you ever heard of the term, "One step forward two steps back"?
Well this game is a prime example to that.All the way from S1 to today,Turtling was a huge issue.Never attacking equaled win.
Now to try to change that,you have given everyone lightning fast attacks and a crazy amount of Unblockables making the game 'Guess right or die'.
No, seriously.Its turned into a complete Spam fest as if it wasn't already annoying enough with Peacekeepers and Shinobis.
Unblockables means you either predict their feint and Block/parry the second attack or get hit because they didn't feint.Or try to parry/dodge the initial attack and get hit with their feint attack.Meaning the game just turned into a 50/50 where it's a Fancy version of Rock,Paper & scissors rather than winning with skill.

For some reason,you decided to make most lights 400ms making it almost impossible to block on console meaning they can be spammed until you die.

I understand that it is very hard to balance a character without making them OP/UP but,this isn't the way.You just solved one issue by creating another.Perhaps,even bigger than the original one.

I can agree that the game has gotten faster over the course of dev changes. But I can't agree that it's a spam meta. For the sake of keeping things on track i'll only look at the new reworks in regards to this thread.

Hyper turtling still beats both berzerker and kensei. With zerk the new speed on his feinted into lights and his faster combo speeds are not enough to crack a hyper turtle. and the hyper armor means nothing if the hyper turtle isn't attempting to parry. the only change that helps zerk out here is the unblockables. But because the unblockables are in the end of a chain they're easily seen coming. and because they're not new animations or insanely hard to read it's easy to tell if they're being ripped or feinted.
With kensei all the mix ups he has can be blocked barring pommel strike. and if you only go for pommel strike the person can stuff it with a light or some bashes. and all sidge bashes/attacks beat it. In both cases you can roll out of either mix up.

Conq is the only one who forces an opponent to do anything since his forward bash is now faster and variable timing wise. Assassin back dodges remove the varied bit as they can just back dash basically twice to constantly avoid any mix up there. But still.

There is no guessing in for honor. There is no 50/50's in for honor. Everything is highly telegraphed even soft feints. And since rolling trumps all mix ups there isn't a 50/50. Please actually understand the term you're using. And the skill comment tacked on after that just means you're a salty dude blaming the game instead of himself. There are more than one type of skill. And you can't accurately quantify skill in any regard. if mix ups/"50/50's" are skilless then you must think all fighting games are spammy noob fests.

I regularly block 400ms attacks on my xbox one. It's not impossible. You're bad.

Diresins_PSN
02-21-2018, 09:37 PM
I agree, the assassin meta has ran for too long. I still firmly believe that if you are quick enough to block, than you should be able to block no matter what. The free hits that certain characters get simply by deflecting attacks is not fair.

Devils-_-legacy
02-21-2018, 09:46 PM
A parry is more rewarding then a deflect barring glad(skewer) orochi(light /heavy) and zerk (gb>throw/light/heavy)even then it's extremely situational

UbiJurassic
02-21-2018, 09:57 PM
As Vakris_One, let's shutdown this PC vs Console argument. If you want to talk PC vs Console in a constructive manner that's not going to flame someone for choosing one over the other, make a different thread about it. This thread is focused on balance changes to heroes and their moves.

Aivendil1
02-21-2018, 11:17 PM
Today I got light spammed by a shinobi in a tournament. Faced him in the pre-rounds and then lost again in the final. He literally only spammed light attacks. Hard to enjoy loosing like that...

David_gorda
02-21-2018, 11:29 PM
Today I got light spammed by a shinobi in a tournament. Faced him in the pre-rounds and then lost again in the final. He literally only spammed light attacks. Hard to enjoy loosing like that...

I won a ranked tournament like that with pk. Didnt even Know the moveset, just spammed lights and randomly canceled heavy to light and Did a few zones. Just wanted to test how stupid and Broken he was. Dont understand how People can play that snooze op Class on console.

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 11:36 PM
knight already said he can block 400ms light attacks on xbox one , so guys ? is it the game fault or the players fault :)

Knight_Raime
02-21-2018, 11:41 PM
I won a ranked tournament like that with pk. Didnt even Know the moveset, just spammed lights and randomly canceled heavy to light and Did a few zones. Just wanted to test how stupid and Broken he was. Dont understand how People can play that snooze op Class on console.

yes because tournaments are currently flawless and there is no way you matched against someone who's bad. /s


knight already said he can block 400ms light attacks on xbox one , so guys ? is it the game fault or the players fault :)

OP said it was impossible. I proved other wise. Don't read into things too much. you'll hurt your eyes.

Oupyz
02-21-2018, 11:46 PM
either way if u can block them on xbox one , it's not a spam fest as people making it out , good thing u proved other wise , don't want the dev to get the wrong idea , do we now :P

David_gorda
02-21-2018, 11:46 PM
yes because tournaments are currently flawless and there is no way you matched against someone who's bad. /s



OP said it was impossible. I proved other wise. Don't read into things too much. you'll hurt your eyes. https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/61wy98/pk_banned_on_console_its_a_great_day/

I Guess you are better then the competetive players...? 400ms attack are not good for console players with the crap fps we have.

Knight_Raime
02-21-2018, 11:54 PM
either way if u can block them on xbox one , it's not a spam fest as people making it out , good thing u proved other wise , don't want the dev to get the wrong idea , do we now :P

I dislike spam as a term because I feel like many other terms people love to throw around here that it's being used incorrectly.
I can assure you my feedback has no more or no less impact than anyone elses on the forums. if there really is an issue the devs will probably find it.


https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/61wy98/pk_banned_on_console_its_a_great_day/

I Guess you are better then the competetive players...? 400ms attack are not good for console players with the crap fps we have.


A link to a thread that's almost a year old is your evidence? yeah cool. Lets forget that flicker was still a thing. as was unlock tech that made some of her stuff unblockable/unparryable. and that the game was basically still new.

You've been explained to time and time again that fps has very little impact. I honestly don't even know why I bother replying to your stuff anymore. You borderline troll.

WastedPunk
02-21-2018, 11:57 PM
Did you pay like a $1000 for a PC? I don't see any other reason why you would feel the need to bash others using consoles other than feeling good about yourself I mean wtf?

David_gorda
02-21-2018, 11:59 PM
I dislike spam as a term because I feel like many other terms people love to throw around here that it's being used incorrectly.
I can assure you my feedback has no more or no less impact than anyone elses on the forums. if there really is an issue the devs will probably find it.




A link to a thread that's almost a year old is your evidence? yeah cool. Lets forget that flicker was still a thing. as was unlock tech that made some of her stuff unblockable/unparryable. and that the game was basically still new.

You've been explained to time and time again that fps has very little impact. I honestly don't even know why I bother replying to your stuff anymore. You borderline troll.
Pk has the same speed on the attacks now like back then so its relevant and fps obviously makes a huge difference. i see it everyday i play, People cant react to pk lights and zone. Its a reson it was banned and is still S tier. Calling someone borderline troll because you lack the ability to have an intelligent discussion is not cool.

Knight_Raime
02-22-2018, 12:08 AM
Pk has the same speed on the attacks now like back then so its relevant and fps obviously makes a huge difference. i see it everyday i play, People cant react to pk lights and zone. Its a reson it was banned and is still S tier. Calling someone borderline troll because you lack the ability to have an intelligent discussion is not cool.

No I called you a troll because you make responses like "ez op snore fest" or stat pull people. Strawmanning me isn't going to work.

if she's the same as she was back then but people have had basically a year to deal with her it stands to reason that she'd be easier dealt with.
And she isn't the same. Flicker and unlock tech let her get away with a lot. Her damage used to be higher as well. Which matters. And she used to be able to soft feint into GB from a heavy in combo. and hasn't been able to since time snap was removed. The only possible way that thread would be relevant is if she was still banned. And guess what? she's not. and hasn't been.

Your experience doesn't equal reality for everyone else. I personally struggle with shugoki. Does that mean shugoki is a problem? No. Does that make me a bad player? also no.
No it doesn't. and i'll explain again for the 100th time.

Jumping from 30fps to 60fps doesn't give you double the time to react to a move. If pk's light is 500ms at 30 fps it's 500ms at 60fps. All it does is allow you to see more of the attack. Which in pk's case still isn't much because her lights are stabs/jabs. not wide arching and sweeping hits being dragged across the screen like most other lights. I'm not saying a bump to fps wouldn't be helpful. it would be in the barest of terms.
The reason why pc is so much "better" is because pc players play on monitors. Monitors have faster refresh rates so you see things more accurately because what's happening on your screen is more accurate. If you seriously believe that bumping the game on console to 60fps is suddenly going to make everyone have immensely better reaction times you're not only ill informed about how things work but delusional.

RenegadeTX2000
02-22-2018, 01:35 AM
No I called you a troll because you make responses like "ez op snore fest" or stat pull people. Strawmanning me isn't going to work.

if she's the same as she was back then but people have had basically a year to deal with her it stands to reason that she'd be easier dealt with.
And she isn't the same. Flicker and unlock tech let her get away with a lot. Her damage used to be higher as well. Which matters. And she used to be able to soft feint into GB from a heavy in combo. and hasn't been able to since time snap was removed. The only possible way that thread would be relevant is if she was still banned. And guess what? she's not. and hasn't been.

Your experience doesn't equal reality for everyone else. I personally struggle with shugoki. Does that mean shugoki is a problem? No. Does that make me a bad player? also no.
No it doesn't. and i'll explain again for the 100th time.

Jumping from 30fps to 60fps doesn't give you double the time to react to a move. If pk's light is 500ms at 30 fps it's 500ms at 60fps. All it does is allow you to see more of the attack. Which in pk's case still isn't much because her lights are stabs/jabs. not wide arching and sweeping hits being dragged across the screen like most other lights. I'm not saying a bump to fps wouldn't be helpful. it would be in the barest of terms.
The reason why pc is so much "better" is because pc players play on monitors. Monitors have faster refresh rates so you see things more accurately because what's happening on your screen is more accurate. If you seriously believe that bumping the game on console to 60fps is suddenly going to make everyone have immensely better reaction times you're not only ill informed about how things work but delusional.

Yeah, I've heard of PC players getting better monitors for better reaction times against moves on for honor.

mrmistark
02-22-2018, 02:45 AM
I WOULD disagree that For Honor is in a spam meta, but it is UNDENIABLY an ATTACK meta now. Not all reasons will line up with PC gameplay so PC players, PLEASE bare with me.

First, the gear stats: defense pen, a single stat, null and voids 3 maxed out defensive stats making survivability in this game what ever defense your characters base defense is. Then you have the stats for attack, what should have been the sole counter to defense, going completely unchecked. This forces the game into a position where the faster you can attack with LOW CHANCE of punishment and apply pressure until someone makes a mistake, the better you will be off.

This leads people to thinking SPAM meta, because yes, it DOES fit the bill, but it isnít the sole perpetrator.

This leads me to my next point, character kits: It also has a lot to do with how unpredictable a character can be as well to apply this sense of huge pressure and unpunishability. Options are perfect for the game, they are healthy, but it spreads the wedge between those who donít have these even farther. I understand everyoneís getting a rework, but how long will that take? Thatís why shaman is so good. She has so much she can do while still having that quick speed.

Notice characters with low viable options and low attack speed seem to be the lowest on the tier list?

Weíve gotten to an attack more-mix up more meta on console. Iím not convinced itís exactly more healthy than the defensive meta that we honestly didnít overly experience too much in comparison to PC. Iím glad we got rid of free GB donít get me wrong, itís probably the healthiest decision the devs made for this game, this is healthy, but the direction the game is going, though refreshing, needs to be refined. I really DO think taking DEF PEN would accomplish this on ALL PLATFORMS.

Regardless, you CANT take away light spam without taking away a characters identity of being a quick attacker, especially considering on PC it is worlds easier to deal with an incoming light attack. We can however, make DEFENSE AS A STAT viable again. It would make quick hard hitting attack spams (again due to unchecked attack) more survivable, meaning the chance for an opening for less equipped characters would be more viable and start a slight balance of characters in its own right. Arguably the most questionable thing the dev team did was assume DEFENSE=REASON FOR DEFENSIVE META when in reality it had nothing to do with it. Changing the way defense penetration works would also make gear stats more customized to each player, you know, like the REASON we GOT a gear revamp anyways....

Just my 2 cents.

Vakris_One
02-22-2018, 03:15 AM
https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/61wy98/pk_banned_on_console_its_a_great_day/

I Guess you are better then the competetive players...? 400ms attack are not good for console players with the crap fps we have.
Old news. Back then we had flicker and unlock exploits and the PK even had a wierd flicker exploit with her guard direction. I also remember back then some people were actually crying about Valkyrie and saying that she should be banned next... lmfao!

Shmolty said it best at the time:

https://youtu.be/NlTr3ww54Jk

In any case she's no longer banned so it's completely irrelevant to the state the game is in now. It's just a piece of For Honor history, nothing more.

S0Mi_xD
02-22-2018, 10:31 AM
come try spam on pc and see u'll be parried and killed , defense still > attack in every way possible .


if u play on pc come and try to spam me , in 1v1 and u will see what im talking about .

the game is headed into a good direction and thank you ubisoft for season 5 , suddenly no more staring meta


come on ps4...try to block or parry

People still think, that pc and consol have so much difference due to fps difference?
The fps difference is so irrelevant xD

Com on Ps4 and I block,parry and deflect your rectum out of the game.

The main difference between Consol and PC is, that PC is a small tribe of self reclaimed "pros" and consol a hord of sheeps with some wolves between.
Another aspect that affects both - pc and consol - are monitores/TVs
It's funny how evey idiot says "if you play pc your play on a monitor and those have a better response time" ... naa not every person that plays on pc has automatically a great monitor.
I have one with 2ms and my second with 5ms response time and i guess i am not the only one.
Also, there are enough persons playing consol on a monitor (those who are more then "just casuals" and some TVs have also a good response time.

And the last point that has a noticeable impact, that comes into my mind, is the connection (lag etc.)

Maybe input lag from wireless controller, but it's not like you play 10meters away from your consol or pc.

Card1acArrest
02-22-2018, 11:19 AM
strange this!

I see MUCH more heavy attacks 4v4 on PC than before.

1 light parried = you eat 30-40 damage.
1 heavy parried = 15-20 damage.
it is more value now to go heavy hits??

also heavies build revenge slower.

AtamanMX
02-22-2018, 11:33 AM
Who is ****ing test those class before they release? Now those who was good now OP special conq.
What now each other season they will raise lvl to others classes? crap balance.

Charmzzz
02-22-2018, 11:38 AM
30 to 60 FPS wont do alot concerning input lag. It is mostly the TV/Monitor, have a look here: https://displaylag.com/display-database/

Different Displays vary from ~100ms to 10ms input lag. Add Controller (Wired and Wireless are around 67ms for Xbox 360 Controllers) and Connection (Wifi could be 10 to 100ms depending on your signal quality and if alot of other Wifi's are interfering), and you will have a much bigger impact on your experience than the 30 FPS more...

30 FPS: 33,3ms
60 FPS: 16,7ms
Display: 10 - 100ms
Controller: 67ms
Connection: 10 - 100ms

If an attack gives you 400ms to react, and you add up those numbers above, what is causing the most input lag? ;)

Edit:
Best Case @30FPS: ~120ms input lag. 400ms attack - 120ms input lag = 280ms reaction window for you.
Worst Case@30FPS: ~300ms input lag. Resulting in 100ms reaction window.

Best Case @60FPS: ~100ms input lag. 300ms reaction window.
Worst Case @60FPS: ~280ms input lag. 120ms reaction window.

See what we try to explain?

Edit2: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1837977-MUST-READ-Crazy-lag-revelation!?highlight=input

That Thread is a nice read. Guy had an extension cord on his Controller which gave him huge input lag.

Alustar.
02-22-2018, 01:43 PM
It blows my mind how many players here all assume that by throwing in more frames you can react better.

First off, you cannot even do that. If ubisoft wanted to increase frame rates on console they would have to overhaul the entire animation sequences for the whole game. Contrary to popular believe, there isn't a button they can press, or a slider they can move that will do the trick. No, instead they will have to completely redesign the assets for PS4. Because you can't just import PC assets, you'd be lucky too be able to use what you have, and often times it's better to start from scratch.
Secondly, frame rates are an inaccurate measure of animating sequences in 2018. Maybe if this was street fighter, or mortal kombat back in the 90s when 2d animation all relied on sprite frames. But this is the future now, game sprites are rendered in 3d and no longer use "frames" the same way.
Instead the frame rate refers to the buffer size of the animation being played.
In short, until we have dedicated servers and players running better connections, having 60fps would only cause more lag/latency/artifacting of characters than we do currently. And the only difference between 30/60fps is the smoothness in which animations perform. They DO NOT become suddenly more reactive.

Charmzzz
02-22-2018, 01:59 PM
@alustar24: Well, we could argue about the fact that 60 FPS give you small advantage: you can see the attack indicator ~17ms earlier than @30FPS IF (big IF!) the first frame of the attack indicator falls exactly into the first milliseconds of your display refreshing for a new frame.

But ~17ms is such a small timeframe, it wont help those players at all to react to fast attacks. The only thing that helps: Fast Display (see link in my post before) and short-wired connections (Controller and Internet).

Waynedetta40k
02-22-2018, 02:00 PM
Have you ever heard of the term, "One step forward two steps back"?
Well this game is a prime example to that.All the way from S1 to today,Turtling was a huge issue.Never attacking equaled win.
Now to try to change that,you have given everyone lightning fast attacks and a crazy amount of Unblockables making the game 'Guess right or die'.
No, seriously.Its turned into a complete Spam fest as if it wasn't already annoying enough with Peacekeepers and Shinobis.
Unblockables means you either predict their feint and Block/parry the second attack or get hit because they didn't feint.Or try to parry/dodge the initial attack and get hit with their feint attack.Meaning the game just turned into a 50/50 where it's a Fancy version of Rock,Paper & scissors rather than winning with skill.

For some reason,you decided to make most lights 400ms making it almost impossible to block on console meaning they can be spammed until you die.

I understand that it is very hard to balance a character without making them OP/UP but,this isn't the way.You just solved one issue by creating another.Perhaps,even bigger than the original one.

There is only very little in the game that isnt reactable. Warden Shoulder bash i believe is a 50/50 he can let it go or gb or cancel.
Second is the Highlander kick into caber toss.
This isnt true for all heroes though.

Unblockables/feints are reactable depending on how good you are. I managed to cancel failed heavy parrys into feints when enemy feinted. I manage to wait long enough to see if the unblockable goes off or not. Some lightattacks are a problem for me Zerker mainly with his feintgame. That doesnt mean i cant learn to handle it, iam just not there yet. I can block/parry PK lights so they are reactable.

So its a git gud problem or your Hardware has to much input lag, which is honestly also your problem.

Alustar.
02-22-2018, 02:07 PM
@alustar24: Well, we could argue about the fact that 60 FPS give you small advantage: you can see the attack indicator ~17ms earlier than @30FPS IF (big IF!) the first frame of the attack indicator falls exactly into the first milliseconds of your display refreshing for a new frame.

But ~17ms is such a small timeframe, it wont help those players at all to react to fast attacks. The only thing that helps: Fast Display (see link in my post before) and short-wired connections (Controller and Internet).

Good catch, I completely forgot about syncing animations like this.

mrmistark
02-22-2018, 07:02 PM
There is only very little in the game that isnt reactable. Warden Shoulder bash i believe is a 50/50 he can let it go or gb or cancel.
Second is the Highlander kick into caber toss.
This isnt true for all heroes though.

Unblockables/feints are reactable depending on how good you are. I managed to cancel failed heavy parrys into feints when enemy feinted. I manage to wait long enough to see if the unblockable goes off or not. Some lightattacks are a problem for me Zerker mainly with his feintgame. That doesnt mean i cant learn to handle it, iam just not there yet. I can block/parry PK lights so they are reactable.

So its a git gud problem or your Hardware has to much input lag, which is honestly also your problem.

There is no such thing as 50/50 in For Honor. Just competitive fear forcing you to forget that a simple light attack in both situations you deem a 50/50 stop them in their tracks. Iím not saying this as a jab. I often do the same, I think most of the player base does. We instinctively try to dodge and create more space to react when it isnít our best option. Best we can do is learn and adapt. I often record close duels to see exactly where I went wrong and what I could do better or look out for next time. Doing this for a year I almost never have to record anymore, because it has become blatantly obvious what I messed up on.

Alustar.
02-22-2018, 08:01 PM
There is no such thing as 50/50 in For Honor. Just competitive fear forcing you to forget that a simple light attack in both situations you deem a 50/50 stop them in their tracks. Iím not saying this as a jab. I often do the same, I think most of the player base does. We instinctively try to dodge and create more space to react when it isnít our best option. Best we can do is learn and adapt. I often record close duels to see exactly where I went wrong and what I could do better or look out for next time. Doing this for a year I almost never have to record anymore, because it has become blatantly obvious what I messed up on.

You just highlighted the main issue with the player base, in my opinion, bang personal accountability.

I know I for one have a habit of thinking dodging will save me from everything (sometimes even GBs) knowing time and again that isn't the case, yet o all get caught with an untechable GB, because I dodged instead of attacked. But not once have I gone to the forums crying nerf.

The_B0G_
02-22-2018, 10:22 PM
I really hope adding hyper armor to every rework isn't a trend. I feel like I can't even attack a zerker without parrying first.

Moves keep getting faster and faster, feints are faster, personally can't keep up with it, it might be my slow internet or just my reflexes but I play with a lot of people who say the same.

I think we need separate balancing for consoles, I like playing heavy classes, vanguards and hybrids, but I can't keep up defensively, I switched to berserker today after getting trashed for a few hours, immediately I was going 15-3 17-5, the best scores I've had all day and I never played him in about 7 or 8 months.

Not picking an assassin seems to be too big of a disadvantage now, as its tenfold easier to spam out your feint routine than it is to react to it and defend against it.

Oupyz
02-22-2018, 10:32 PM
i'm liking the direction although my reflexes are not as they were 15 years ago , but i'm doing just fine dodging most of bashes minus warden shoulder bash which is the most annoying , it might be the only 50/50 the game currently suffer from .

bob333e
02-22-2018, 10:40 PM
i'm liking the direction although my reflexes are not as they were 15 years ago , but i'm doing just fine dodging most of bashes minus warden shoulder bash which is the most annoying , it might be the only 50/50 the game currently suffer from .

Highlander's "50/50" (double feint into Caber Toss) is actually harder to dodge, and covers greater distance, and you'll get punished with at least two heavies, the first being unblockable. Yet I don't see you complaining about Highlander (who also has hyperarmor).

Post-rework Conqueror can now shield-bash with virtually zero risk, and can chain hits after a bash worse than Warden. Plus, his front dash distance is triple of Warden's. And now his OOS game beats Centurion's. Yet I don't see you complaining about Conqueror.

Moral of the message: Warden crynerfs got really old. And if you're liking the direction this game is taking, I fail to see how Warden is still an issue, with all the recent unblockable fest buffs.

Don't get me wrong; he needs a rework. I don't like the spammable property of his shoulderbash, either. But crying nerf won't help.

The_B0G_
02-22-2018, 10:54 PM
i'm liking the direction although my reflexes are not as they were 15 years ago , but i'm doing just fine dodging most of bashes minus warden shoulder bash which is the most annoying , it might be the only 50/50 the game currently suffer from .

I just unlock and roll every time a warden starts up their shoulder spam.

David_gorda
02-22-2018, 11:00 PM
I just unlock and roll every time a warden starts up their shoulder spam.
This i learned this 11 months ago, some People are slow lol.

Protos_88
02-22-2018, 11:36 PM
this new balance is so pathetic... now i cant atack without punish.. os spam fest..

The_B0G_
02-23-2018, 12:02 AM
this new balance is so pathetic... now i cant atack without punish.. os spam fest..

Yeah... Personally I think they over did it with the hyper armor, way too many moves have it now, if anything it makes people turtle more, not less.

SaschoS
02-23-2018, 12:12 AM
Game is way too fast when it was in start

David_gorda
02-23-2018, 12:17 AM
Game is way too fast when it was in start yeah i dont like the direction this Game is going, i an going to wait until the deficated server are Out on console and if its sucks i Will delete the Game.

Alustar.
02-23-2018, 12:27 AM
Game is way too fast when it was in start

The game is no faster than it was at start, the difference is now you don't have to worry about a debilitating penalty from attempting an attack, getting parried, grabbed and killed.
This was a critical fix for the health of both duels and 4s.
I love seeing players actually fight instead of being locked in a 6way staring contest waiting for the first side to attack, or seeing single skirmishes get caught up in staring contests because players want a party for a free GB. I can't count how many more fights I've won more simply because of this.

SaschoS
02-23-2018, 12:30 AM
Go play single player then go back to bot match or whatever and then come back and post

The_B0G_
02-23-2018, 12:36 AM
I hate being the guy who says I'm gonna quit if it doesn't play the way I want, I love this game and love playing it but I'm not sure it will survive red dead redemption 2's release if it keeps going with this ultra fast, unblockable and hyper armor direction.

I love the parry changes, but if we keep adding all these super fast attacks and hyper armor, it's going to turn into hockey fights, both people just smashing away at each other with no defense until one buckles and falls.

David_gorda
02-23-2018, 01:02 AM
I hate being the guy who says I'm gonna quit if it doesn't play the way I want, I love this game and love playing it but I'm not sure it will survive red dead redemption 2's release if it keeps going with this ultra fast, unblockable and hyper armor direction.

I love the parry changes, but if we keep adding all these super fast attacks and hyper armor, it's going to turn into hockey fights, both people just smashing away at each other with no defense until one buckles and falls. yeah the parry changes was good but all the unblockables and superfast attacks not so much.

Charmzzz
02-23-2018, 10:19 AM
Parry changes are good. Adding Hyperarmor to alot of moves, I completely agree with you. Should be removed on most moves imo. Hyperarmor on too many moves makes these moves pretty much low risk / high reward.

Protos_88
02-23-2018, 11:14 AM
Parry changes are good. Adding Hyperarmor to alot of moves, I completely agree with you. Should be removed on most moves imo. Hyperarmor on too many moves makes these moves pretty much low risk / high reward.

i dont understand why they give hiperarmor to fast class like berserk not slow like warden... thy spam you and when you meak 1 mestaik, you die.

Knight_Raime
02-23-2018, 11:19 AM
i dont understand why they give hiperarmor to fast class like berserk not slow like warden... thy spam you and when you meak 1 mestaik, you die.

Hyper armor would not save warden in anyway.

The_B0G_
02-23-2018, 11:20 AM
i dont understand why they give hiperarmor to fast class like berserk not slow like warden... thy spam you and when you meak 1 mestaik, you die.

Yeah I agree, with all those attacks coming out one after another its near impossible to know which attack is interruptable, I just assume they all are and block until I get a parry.

To be honest I'm probably going to start using him myself, I don't particularly like him but he's so easy to use, and I'm tired of getting wrecked by all these assassin classes and their fast attacks and fast feints, too fast for me to react to, and too easy to pull off for me not to use myself.

Charmzzz
02-23-2018, 11:27 AM
Yeah I agree, with all those attacks coming out one after another its near impossible to know which attack is interruptable, I just assume they all are and block until I get a parry.

To be honest I'm probably going to start using him myself, I don't particularly like him but he's so easy to use, and I'm tired of getting wrecked by all these assassin classes and their fast attacks and fast feints, too fast for me to react to, and too easy to pull off for me not to use myself.

I have not many issues on my Warden with Assassins overall. Having static guard is so good compared to decaying guard, I mostly play Warden when I do not want to be fully on-my-toes the whole match. Relaxing gameplay vs PK, Zerker, Shinobi, but still exhausting vs Glad and Shaman. ^^

Knight_Raime
02-23-2018, 11:32 AM
Yeah I agree, with all those attacks coming out one after another its near impossible to know which attack is interruptable, I just assume they all are and block until I get a parry.

To be honest I'm probably going to start using him myself, I don't particularly like him but he's so easy to use, and I'm tired of getting wrecked by all these assassin classes and their fast attacks and fast feints, too fast for me to react to, and too easy to pull off for me not to use myself.

Honestly with certain hero moves I think it's always just a better idea to block. Never really parry something unless you baited that situation to happen.
Shamans wildcats rage, centurion heavies, etc.

Wit zerk your best bet is to setup parry. Do this enough times and he'll stop letting combos go so freely. slowing him down. making him much easier to handle.
He's easy to use for people who try to parry too often or are a bit too aggressive. he still falls flat versus anyone who plays it safe most of the time.

The_B0G_
02-23-2018, 11:37 AM
Honestly with certain hero moves I think it's always just a better idea to block. Never really parry something unless you baited that situation to happen.
Shamans wildcats rage, centurion heavies, etc.

Wit zerk your best bet is to setup parry. Do this enough times and he'll stop letting combos go so freely. slowing him down. making him much easier to handle.
He's easy to use for people who try to parry too often or are a bit too aggressive. he still falls flat versus anyone who plays it safe most of the time.

Yeah that's how I play against him now, block his lights until he let's a heavy fly, then parry and punish. Its really the only way to fight him. Hard to handle when he starts feinting every heavy into a light though, that's where I have issues with him, even if I know its coming its uninterruptable so attacking with a light doesn't stop it.

Knight_Raime
02-23-2018, 11:46 AM
Yeah that's how I play against him now, block his lights until he let's a heavy fly, then parry and punish. Its really the only way to fight him. Hard to handle when he starts feinting every heavy into a light though, that's where I have issues with him, even if I know its coming its uninterruptable so attacking with a light doesn't stop it.

I am just getting used to reading/blocking for now. once i'm used to the speed and peoples new tactics is when i'll be more than happy to attempt to parry. For now though i'm just enjoying seeing people attempt to go crazy and see just exactly how much someone will let them get away with.

SaschoS
02-24-2018, 10:32 AM
Already seeing only assassins in game

Card1acArrest
02-24-2018, 12:36 PM
nah.... played a few rounds 4v4 where 4 assassins wrecked us.. we changed to vanguard/valk and started winning.

always a paper scissors rock game :D

healthpool matters a bit at times..