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HazelrahFirefly
02-19-2018, 10:43 PM
Or I suppose we should just call him Kensei at this point.

The one thing that gets me, that Kensei players are abusing the crap out of, is the overhead unblockable that can be feinted at the last second to either side. This moves seems invincible because if you don't try to parry you will eat an unlockable, and if you do try to parry you'll eat a side ?heavy?

A friend suggested something that I can't wait to get home and try. When I see his sword up in the air, instead of attempting to block or parry, hit him with the quickest light I can. Do you guys think that could work? Does the attack have hyper armor as well (I hate calling it super armor)?

Vrbas1
02-19-2018, 10:49 PM
Has been working for me so far. Just depends how late they wait to feint which activates hyper armor.

BTTrinity
02-19-2018, 10:53 PM
Or I suppose we should just call him Kensei at this point.

The one thing that gets me, that Kensei players are abusing the crap out of, is the overhead unblockable that can be feinted at the last second to either side. This moves seems invincible because if you don't try to parry you will eat an unlockable, and if you do try to parry you'll eat a side ?heavy?

A friend suggested something that I can't wait to get home and try. When I see his sword up in the air, instead of attempting to block or parry, hit him with the quickest light I can. Do you guys think that could work? Does the attack have hyper armor as well (I hate calling it super armor)?

Depending on who you play, you might be able to get away with hitting a light off during his UB top heavy.... However, I usually roll as soon as I see his top heavy opener or ub finisher and take no risks playing his mind games.

EDIT: I also think super-armor sounds corny, Ill call it Hyper-Armor right there with you.

Takuram
02-19-2018, 10:57 PM
You have a few options, and mainly in duels you'll have to mix up a bit, as well as the Kensei.

1- Try to parry if he soft feints a side heavy - But even if you do manage to parry it, the Kensei will start sot feinting with hyper armor lights, so no good deal.
2- Dodge and block - Dodge IMMEDIATELLY when he uses the top unblockable, then be ready to block / parry whatever comes your way.
3- Dodge backwards - Good option, but depending on your timing you may still get hit form side heavy; the Kensei can also soft feint into a dodge forward + heavy, so yeah...

The thing, if the Kensei is REALLY good, he can mix you up badly, and we haven't even mentioned that he can soft feint that top heavy into a GB as well. My point being, instead of trying to react to what he's good at, be smart and DON'T let him get to this point. Be more agressive, parry the dodges and you should be good.

Vakris_One
02-19-2018, 11:25 PM
Or I suppose we should just call him Kensei at this point.

The one thing that gets me, that Kensei players are abusing the crap out of, is the overhead unblockable that can be feinted at the last second to either side. This moves seems invincible because if you don't try to parry you will eat an unlockable, and if you do try to parry you'll eat a side ?heavy?

A friend suggested something that I can't wait to get home and try. When I see his sword up in the air, instead of attempting to block or parry, hit him with the quickest light I can. Do you guys think that could work? Does the attack have hyper armor as well (I hate calling it super armor)?
The Kensei has always been about his top unblockable mind games it's just that he now has hyper armour lights which to soft cancel into as well. The top unblockable finisher is now slightly slower in it's startup phase than the previous Kensei 1.0 jump strike so yes you can definitely hit him out of it using anything that is a 400-500ms attack but the new Kensei now has hyper armour lights available so you'll have to be prepared for him to adapt to this very quickly.

Your best bet is to do as before against the Kensei's top unblockable mind game and that is to learn the timing of when he can no longer cancel out of it. That way you'll know that once he's gone past a certain point and hasn't soft cancelled it then he's fully committed to the top unblockable. The side heavies come out quite slow even when soft cancelled so you can parry them. The lights are the tricky ones but if you are watching him closely then you can block them. I've already had mine parried a few times by players who know what to look for. The last thing to look out for is his cancel into dash forward GB but many Kensei have stopped using this for now as it has gotten to be quite clunky - you now need to wait for the top unblockable to wind up a bit before you can dash cancel into GB and so the timing is a bit off for long time Kensei players.

guor6800
02-19-2018, 11:40 PM
The last thing to look out for is his cancel into dash forward GB but many Kensei have stopped using this for now as it has gotten to be quite clunky - you now need to wait for the top unblockable to wind up a bit before you can dash cancel into GB and so the timing is a bit off for long time Kensei players.

It just feels awkward that most probably i will get smacked in the head with a heavy every time i try to use it. Except if it is a shugoki or a valkyrie or another kensei ofc. These guys take years to start a top heavy.

Vakris_One
02-19-2018, 11:57 PM
It just feels awkward that most probably i will get smacked in the head with a heavy every time i try to use it. Except if it is a shugoki or a valkyrie or another kensei ofc. These guys take years to start a top heavy.
Yeah, it used to be a much quicker input before and you could use it on reaction to the enemy's dodge or mess around with the timing a bit. Now it's very firmly inside a specific time window and it's not as usable as before cos you will just end up getting smacked.

The cancel into light or heavy is now more viable than the cancel into dash GB. However, the Kensei can now soft cancel any of his heavies into a forward dash GB so it's basically been reshuffled a bit in his kit. It's no longer very viable from his top finisher but I find it's quite usable if you soft cancel your second heavy into a dash GB - that essentially feels like the new place they decided to put the dash-GB mixup game.

High-Horse
02-20-2018, 12:23 AM
I usually roll as soon as I see his top heavy opener or ub finisher and take no risks playing his mind games.
Be careful because Nature's Wrath is designed specifically to counter this tactic.

HazelrahFirefly
02-20-2018, 12:40 AM
Be careful because Nature's Wrath is designed specifically to counter this tactic.

That's exactly what I waa thinking. Ill never roll from a Kensei again.

As far learning the window... I'm on console and maybe my eyes cant handle it... it literally looks to be the last frame, when his top unblockable is already cutting my hero.

BTTrinity
02-20-2018, 03:00 AM
Be careful because Nature's Wrath is designed specifically to counter this tactic.

More often than not, im able to recover and block it.

AkenoKobayashi
02-20-2018, 03:45 AM
I like the new Kensei, since I main that class, but that top heavy starter is too slow. If you are going to use a top finisher, then you need to use a Light+Light+Heavy combo or something. Still getting used to it, and the new parry system with still screws me over now that it is different.

mrmistark
02-20-2018, 04:00 AM
I donít understand. Has NO ONE realized Kensei has ALWAYS had the soft fient of his top UB heavy finisher into side HA heavy? Iíve used it since beta. Itís not new, just no one else uses it much. Itís particularly useful against dodgy assassins.

Tyrjo
02-20-2018, 05:15 PM
So Kensei can cancel the TH to either an unblockable which in turn guarantees damage, side lights or guard break. If you don't want to subject yourself to unreactable feints and just GTFO he can catch you with a huge leap heavy. Sounds about as close to "damned if you do damned if you don't" as you can get.

Vakris_One
02-20-2018, 05:37 PM
So Kensei can cancel the TH to either an unblockable which in turn guarantees damage, side lights or guard break. If you don't want to subject yourself to unreactable feints and just GTFO he can catch you with a huge leap heavy. Sounds about as close to "damned if you do damned if you don't" as you can get.
On paper, sure. In practice you have a choice of options:

● His first top heavy is super slow. Hit him with a light as soon as you see him do it and he won't be able to whip anything out of it. The best he can do is hard feint it and block, the cancel doesn't give him enough time to parry a light so anything that is as fast or faster than a Warden top light is safe to use.

● Maintain some distance between you and you negate his pommel strike. If he tries it and follows up with dash GB or light/heavy you can react to them.

● Hyper armour also negates the pommel strike so characters that have it or can generate it on certain moves can punish Kensei's initial mind game by trading with him or disrupting him out of his attack.