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View Full Version : Orochi and Valkyrie buff, Warden and PK adjustments.



Nemesis_4C3
02-19-2018, 06:01 AM
This was done 2/18, deleted 2/19

Charmzzz
02-19-2018, 09:26 AM
I won't go through all your suggestions because it is waaay to much. I really don't know your experience in this game, but alot of your nerf-calls seem to be L2P issues on your side. Like Warden Shoulder Bash nerf for half the Damage and Orochi Double Top Light buff, or Riptide Strike being a free Parry (it is not, you just have to use it on reaction and not beforehand).

I will just comment your PK changes very quick as that is my Main:

- Deflect: could use a buff, but your suggestion would encourage people to turtle and wait for a Deflect for the throw. Most part of the community (including myself) wanted to get rid of instakills from parry (or Deflect). Your suggestion would allow this again. No.

- Heavy Attack Damage: No way, you do not want to switch them up. When For Honor was released, PK did heavy Damage on her Dodge Attacks. It got nerfed pretty quick because PK could just wait for someone to attack and punish with heavy Damage super easily. We do not want Def-Meta back!

- Zone Attack: If you change it to unfeintable - PK will drop 1-2 tiers. Zone attack would be instantly useless against any experienced player. Nope.

- Parrying: NO MORE DEF META, my god, you really want turtling back it seems. No GB for a parry!

- I like the idea of an unblockable opener from neutral, because PK lacks this. But that mini-game you suggest would take way to long, think of 4v4 modes. The move should only do Stamina Damage and maybe stun the opponent so PK can get a Light out without indicators showing.

NNKaliasME
02-19-2018, 12:56 PM
I wouldnt touch Wardens shoulder bash any more. People have ruined it enough already and if you are bad enough to get vortexed at this point you deserve it. If you nerf the shoulder bash any more you might aswell remove it from his kit entirely. Not to mention Highlanders Kick into Caber Toss might aswell be the old shoulder bash right now.

Warden is a very solid hero right now who can hold himself (or herself) even against the more complicated DLC characters like Glad and Shaman albeit with lots of work.
Infact if I would choose to nerf a thing about Warden I would give them the same treatment as Orochi and and look at the double side light damage. Orochis top lights are one side light right now where Warden side lights are almost a heavy.
I dunno why this idea was dropped but I would like the fight team to revisit it
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PaleCarefreeLamprey-size_restricted.gif
its not my footage but I really like the idea of hitting people with my guard outside of the executions.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PlainShabbyBlackandtancoonhound-size_restricted.gif
Or revisit some ideas from the target gameplay footage. Of course im not a HEMA expert and cant say how well that kind of stuff would work in the frame of the current game.

Baturai
02-19-2018, 01:01 PM
Orochi ;

back then it was a A tier
then they decided to nerf its Abilities, Removed Tracking, range.
last second cancel Hurricane. It became -B tier.
then they decided to buff his Deflect..( a move that relies on 90% prediction) removed flicker zone.
it became B tier

now they nerfed Toplight aswell +parry changes.

You wanna know the current Position of Orochi now ?

C tier class, a total garbage. Valk And Buff Need serious Buff.

Charmzzz
02-19-2018, 01:27 PM
Deflect is 90% prediction? Why that? Parry is the same timing, just a different input...

Vakris_One
02-19-2018, 01:54 PM
I am unimpressed with the OP's suggestions. Your "fixes" for Warden and PK in particular sound like you don't really have any experience in playing them. The casual arrogance also really don't help your case.

So I'm gonna have to say, nah. I'm happy for the devs to decide what needs to be done with these characters rather than some dude who says he'll cry for attention everyday until he gets banned for spamming.

Jiblet2017
02-19-2018, 04:48 PM
Shoulder Bash - no changes needed.

PK zone - making the second part uncountable would be an auto parry at high levels. It doesn't matter if you tack on a bleed after, because you would almost never get there.

PK GB changes- the Devs have stated that no character will get a GB off of a parry. This was literally just implemented. Why would they start moving in the opposite direction.

PK cutscene on running GB - button mashing mini game? This is not Mario party.

PK lunge attack/heavy damage switch - the lunge attack damage was already beefed and is easily parriable. Switching damage values with her standing heavy would be a huge nerf and take pressure off of her feint game (which is the real use for her heavies).

PK deflect - I am on the fence about this. I have always thought about some sort of hyper armor bleed after a deflect. At the same time, I think deflect was designed to be highly situational.

PK unlockable from heavy feint- I think she needs an unlockable of some sort. I'm not sure if it should be a bash or just a straight unblickables attack. However, I think some power should be taken away from her lights to compensate for the expanded options (for examole 17>15 to 15>13 or 500ms>400ms to 500ms>500ms).

Thank you for the input! I'm sure you took slot of time to plan and write the post which I appreciate even if I don't necessarily agree with all of your points. I also tried to avoid commenting on characters I havnt played beyond rep 7 as I am sure others would have a better sense of what is appropriate for their kits.

BTTrinity
02-19-2018, 04:54 PM
Warden needs a full moveset rework like Kensei got.

(Not an Orochi player, but I think these would do him pretty damn well)

Give him Tozens kick, and let that be his opener into his double top lights

Make it so he can charge the kick (Like wardens shoulder bash) so he can follow up into storm rush?

Riptide Strike (I think this is the one Im thinking of, where he leans back and does a top strike) give it i-frames when he leans back lol

Mini1900
02-19-2018, 04:56 PM
OROCHI, OROCHI OROCHI, how many times should we say DEV about orochi, People say orochi is good but good vs BAD PLAYERS; me with rep 80 on PC only have pros as opponent , which is ok, and what do you wanna do as orochi, when every one knows , he has only double top light and zone, everything ELSE dont work on this LVL of gaming for long time, maybe 1 or 2 time when opponent make mistakes but its not the way to play, u play to win the duel when ur opponent has 0 hp and not 10 or 20 or 5 .
NEMESIS i just AGREE with every sentence u said about orochi !

EvoX.
02-19-2018, 05:04 PM
Deflect is 90% prediction? Parry is the same timing.

No it's not, lmao.

Cliff_001
02-19-2018, 05:14 PM
Disagree with almost everything you say but everyone has a right to an opinion and hopefully you don't spam this every day like you said you would.

wolfman25br
02-19-2018, 05:30 PM
Unless you change Orochi´s description he doesnt need an opener.
What he need is a more speed and viability in counter attacking at his kit.

I like, the ripstride strike concept, but it should have cancel as an option, or maybe a move that could make a change of stance to do an offensive attack, That would serve moslty to bait opponents.
Counter Attacking should be his opener, though not in a direct sense, but mainly to act as a bait to react attack.

OH well...I lost hope of any change at all anyway.

BTTrinity
02-19-2018, 05:48 PM
Unless you change Orochi´s description he doesnt need an opener.
What he need is a more speed and viability in counter attacking at his kit.

I like, the ripstride strike concept, but it should have cancel as an option, or maybe a move that could make a change of stance to do an offensive attack, That would serve moslty to bait opponents.
Counter Attacking should be his opener, though not in a direct sense, but mainly to act as a bait to react attack.

OH well...I lost hope of any change at all anyway.

Imo everyone could use an opener similar to Warlords (Who is also a counter attacker) Shaman, Gladiators

Unfortunately that is just a flaw with the games design, everyone is a counter attacker, everyone gets better rewards for defensive play, even the ones who are meant to be aggressive.

Barzah
02-19-2018, 06:34 PM
The problem for Orochi is that we're forced to play this guy as a half baked aggressor instead of proper counter type assassin. In my opinion, some of the orochi moveset need to be removed (extra top light, Storm gust, defflect Hurricane blast while adding moveset to his/her guard stance)

- Storm Stance: Orochi switch to Iai stance and lose the ability to block (similar to highlander offensive form). Orochi gain unique moveset while using this stance.
*Storm Gust (LMB): Orochi will use fast light attack (instead of heavy), successfully hitting your enemy with this kill allow you to get behind the enemy and get another free light stance. This skill only has two direction (left, top) instead of tree and will drain a lot of stamina if the enemy successfully block your attack.
*Hurricane Blast (RMB): Unblockable heavy attack, also the only way for orochi to attack from right while using storm stance. This moveset can be canceled into guardbreak, dodge, or storm stance
*Storm dash (Dodge button): Just like storm gust dash, this moveset allow Orcochi to have faster dash & recovery than assassin normal dash. However, the distance are much shorter and lightning strike & zephyr strike are disabled when using storm dash.

Riptide Strike: Add unblockable property while drain more stamina

Hero Spesific
-Storm dance: Normal direction attack (light, heavy) and Riptide strike can be canceled into storm stance
-Living blade: Any normal type of attack that collide with Orochi storm gust will be deflected

Nemesis_4C3
02-19-2018, 10:41 PM
I am unimpressed with the OP's suggestions. Your "fixes" for Warden and PK in particular sound like you don't really have any experience in playing them. The casual arrogance also really don't help your case.

So I'm gonna have to say, nah. I'm happy for the devs to decide what needs to be done with these characters rather than some dude who says he'll cry for attention everyday until he gets banned for spamming.

Thank you for your input, I have made quite a bit of changes so please check out my day 2 edition! https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1840722-Orochi-and-Valkyrie-buff-Warden-and-PK-adjustments?p=13327492#post13327492

Nemesis_4C3
02-19-2018, 10:43 PM
Disagree with almost everything you say but everyone has a right to an opinion and hopefully you don't spam this every day like you said you would.

I have taken alot of input and would like you to check out my day 2 edition! I'm trying to represent the community and that means you too so please give me some suggestions! https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1840722-Orochi-and-Valkyrie-buff-Warden-and-PK-adjustments?p=13327492#post13327492

Nemesis_4C3
02-19-2018, 10:45 PM
Shoulder Bash - no changes needed.

PK zone - making the second part uncountable would be an auto parry at high levels. It doesn't matter if you tack on a bleed after, because you would almost never get there.

PK GB changes- the Devs have stated that no character will get a GB off of a parry. This was literally just implemented. Why would they start moving in the opposite direction.

PK cutscene on running GB - button mashing mini game? This is not Mario party.

PK lunge attack/heavy damage switch - the lunge attack damage was already beefed and is easily parriable. Switching damage values with her standing heavy would be a huge nerf and take pressure off of her feint game (which is the real use for her heavies).

PK deflect - I am on the fence about this. I have always thought about some sort of hyper armor bleed after a deflect. At the same time, I think deflect was designed to be highly situational.

PK unlockable from heavy feint- I think she needs an unlockable of some sort. I'm not sure if it should be a bash or just a straight unblickables attack. However, I think some power should be taken away from her lights to compensate for the expanded options (for examole 17>15 to 15>13 or 500ms>400ms to 500ms>500ms).

Thank you for the input! I'm sure you took slot of time to plan and write the post which I appreciate even if I don't necessarily agree with all of your points. I also tried to avoid commenting on characters I havnt played beyond rep 7 as I am sure others would have a better sense of what is appropriate for their kits.

Thank you for your feedback! I have made lots of changes based around replies like yours and yours so please check out my day 2 edition! https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1840722-Orochi-and-Valkyrie-buff-Warden-and-PK-adjustments?p=13327492#post13327492

Nemesis_4C3
02-19-2018, 10:47 PM
I wouldnt touch Wardens shoulder bash any more. People have ruined it enough already and if you are bad enough to get vortexed at this point you deserve it. If you nerf the shoulder bash any more you might aswell remove it from his kit entirely. Not to mention Highlanders Kick into Caber Toss might aswell be the old shoulder bash right now.

Warden is a very solid hero right now who can hold himself (or herself) even against the more complicated DLC characters like Glad and Shaman albeit with lots of work.
Infact if I would choose to nerf a thing about Warden I would give them the same treatment as Orochi and and look at the double side light damage. Orochis top lights are one side light right now where Warden side lights are almost a heavy.
I dunno why this idea was dropped but I would like the fight team to revisit it
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PaleCarefreeLamprey-size_restricted.gif
its not my footage but I really like the idea of hitting people with my guard outside of the executions.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PlainShabbyBlackandtancoonhound-size_restricted.gif
Or revisit some ideas from the target gameplay footage. Of course im not a HEMA expert and cant say how well that kind of stuff would work in the frame of the current game.

Thank you for the input! I have made some changes based around comments I have gotten including yours so please check out my day 2 edition! https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1840722-Orochi-and-Valkyrie-buff-Warden-and-PK-adjustments?p=13327492#post13327492

Nemesis_4C3
02-19-2018, 11:02 PM
I won't go through all your suggestions because it is waaay to much. I really don't know your experience in this game, but alot of your nerf-calls seem to be L2P issues on your side. Like Warden Shoulder Bash nerf for half the Damage and Orochi Double Top Light buff, or Riptide Strike being a free Parry (it is not, you just have to use it on reaction and not beforehand).

I will just comment your PK changes very quick as that is my Main:

- Deflect: could use a buff, but your suggestion would encourage people to turtle and wait for a Deflect for the throw. Most part of the community (including myself) wanted to get rid of instakills from parry (or Deflect). Your suggestion would allow this again. No.

- Heavy Attack Damage: No way, you do not want to switch them up. When For Honor was released, PK did heavy Damage on her Dodge Attacks. It got nerfed pretty quick because PK could just wait for someone to attack and punish with heavy Damage super easily. We do not want Def-Meta back!

- Zone Attack: If you change it to unfeintable - PK will drop 1-2 tiers. Zone attack would be instantly useless against any experienced player. Nope.

- Parrying: NO MORE DEF META, my god, you really want turtling back it seems. No GB for a parry!

- I like the idea of an unblockable opener from neutral, because PK lacks this. But that mini-game you suggest would take way to long, think of 4v4 modes. The move should only do Stamina Damage and maybe stun the opponent so PK can get a Light out without indicators showing.

Thanks for your feedback! I have made lots of changes so please check out my day 2 edition https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1840722-Orochi-and-Valkyrie-buff-Warden-and-PK-adjustments?p=13327492#post13327492

RoosterIlluzion
02-19-2018, 11:41 PM
Jeezus! My takeaway from this is that you've got a hard-on for Orochi and PK, and hate Warden. The only thing I can totally agree with is the paragraph on Appolyon's moves, but the other changes are ridiculous.

Take his only combo away (weak @ 30 dmg total) instead of adding a two or three hit combo to every hero. Nerfs are fun, Huh?

A situational heavy attack that is only available when opponent is OOS, but "looks cool" vs it actually being viable.

A zone attack that nobody would ever use because a fail would mean the fights over, especially against a ****boy like LB.

The fixes for the others are buffs. Why, because they're your favorites?

Ubi-Boat
02-19-2018, 11:55 PM
Since you have made a new post and directed a few people to your new post within this thread, I am going to go ahead and close this thread to ensure all replies go to the proper thread from here on. Thank you for understanding.