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View Full Version : back dodge nerf please ubisoft



Oupyz
02-18-2018, 12:27 PM
Ubisoft the backdodge mechanic out of stamina is pretty fast especially on assassins


everyone start spaming attack attack attack then oss backdodge to safety come back repeat , please nerf backdodge out of stamina , let people think about stamina managment overall this is better for the game

thank you

Zordrage
02-18-2018, 12:56 PM
What ?!

There are already too many attacks/combos that can and WILL reach you if you back dodge.....

the only good and useful thing BACK dodge is good for is what you describing so lets not nerf it shall we.....

Oupyz
02-18-2018, 02:14 PM
no lol backdodge should be nerfed during oos and thats a must . spaming attacks mindlessly and backdodge to safety shouldn't be an option . it should be nerf during oos and that's a must for high level of play to be even more enjoyable , this game is about skills and stamina managment , assassins shouldn't have a free way during oos

Zordrage
02-18-2018, 02:54 PM
spaming attacks mindlessly high level of play

thats more of an issue with the overall gameplay design than Back dodge......

Oupyz
02-18-2018, 03:49 PM
there's no issues atll , back dodge and deflect are both broken , u deflect an attack ur oppenent doesn't get stagger

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 03:56 PM
Defensive maneuvers should be more difficult period when out of stamina. Both dodge and blocking, imo

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 03:58 PM
there's no issues atll , back dodge and deflect are both broken , u deflect an attack ur oppenent doesn't get stagger

You aren't supposed to stagger them with the deflect, you stagger them with the follow-up hit, which can be input simultaneously with the dodge input. Note: this does not effect heroes with hyper armor, don't trade those hits.

Zordrage
02-18-2018, 04:13 PM
Defensive maneuvers should be more difficult period when out of stamina. Both dodge and blocking, imo

yeah sure but 1st remove all the abilities/combos that can 100 to 0 your stamina bar then....

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 04:33 PM
Don't know any thing that burns stamina that fast, I don't even think Valkyrie can get her pay punish anymore with the new changes, so no?

Oupyz
02-18-2018, 04:39 PM
You aren't supposed to stagger them with the deflect, you stagger them with the follow-up hit, which can be input simultaneously with the dodge input. Note: this does not effect heroes with hyper armor, don't trade those hits.

an hour or so ago i deflected a glad attack with my shaman and i hit him but the hit didn't stagger him and stopped his heavy instead i got hit and the deflect+bleed hit got traded for a heavy

do you think deflect isn't broken ?


and about the oos dodge it's broken as af , u shouldn't be able to run away and dodge back this easily to regen your stamina as it is it's a free ticket to safety .

Arekonator
02-18-2018, 04:54 PM
and about the oos dodge it's broken as af , u shouldn't be able to run away and dodge back this easily to regen your stamina as it is it's a free ticket to safety .
PK is the most prominent offender in this. Whenever she goes OOS, she keeps her full dodge distance and if she keeps backdodging there is nothing you can do to punish her or even apply some form of pressure, at least with most characters.

EvoX.
02-18-2018, 05:00 PM
Every Shinobi ever - back dodge, back dodge, back dodge.

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 05:04 PM
an hour or so ago i deflected a glad attack with my shaman and i hit him but the hit didn't stagger him and stopped his heavy instead i got hit and the deflect+bleed hit got traded for a heavy

do you think deflect isn't broken ?


and about the oos dodge it's broken as af , u shouldn't be able to run away and dodge back this easily to regen your stamina as it is it's a free ticket to safety .

No I don't think it's broken, because I've learned the timings and have not encountered this problem. If by chance you have video, that could help determine the root cause, because if it's not a timing issue it sounds like a conditional bug.

As to dodging, I've already said I feel this and block is still a bit too effective in OOS.

Arekonator
02-18-2018, 05:09 PM
As to dodging, I've already said I feel this and block is still a bit too effective in OOS.

Reducing OOS dodge distance on certain characters would be a good start.

Yoshimitsu_440
02-18-2018, 06:25 PM
an hour or so ago i deflected a glad attack with my shaman and i hit him but the hit didn't stagger him and stopped his heavy instead i got hit and the deflect+bleed hit got traded for a heavy

do you think deflect isn't broken ?


and about the oos dodge it's broken as af , u shouldn't be able to run away and dodge back this easily to regen your stamina as it is it's a free ticket to safety .

Wtf are u talking about? Ur stamina regen stops when u dodge in oos. What are U suppose to do? Stand still and just block? Oh wait u cant block spam punches and bashes, duh. Oh wait those punches and bashes actually drain ur stamina. So what are u saying is if u get ur enemy into oos it should be a gg? Or are u just gonna stand there and wait for them to regain their stamina?

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 06:26 PM
Reducing OOS dodge distance on certain characters would be a good start.

That and increasing the regen timings. Also adding the same mechanic to block. Blocking hits skills pause stamina revel in out of stamina as well.

Krongriik
02-18-2018, 07:45 PM
If you guard break while someone is back dodging you actually lock on to them and follow them through their dodge, plus they can't counter your GB since they just dodged, it's the best offense against it. Its actually fairly easy to punish someone who abuses back dodging. You just gotta work on the timing, anticipate your opponents dodge, especially if all they're doing is spamming it in a combo. Another important note is your spacing, if they wanna back dodge then use an attack to close the gap make sure you have enough room to dodge or parry.

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 07:48 PM
If I'm already out of guard break range that doesn't work. Trust me, I wouldn't be supporting a nerf if it's not justified.

Knight_Raime
02-18-2018, 07:52 PM
They are aware of how strong back dash and rolling are.
They are looking for a solution they just don't know what would be a good one because according to them assassins are supposed to be more slippery.
I personally think they should nerf it's distance and speed when you are OOS as that is when back dodging to avoid things is the most annoying.

Knight_Raime
02-18-2018, 07:53 PM
If you guard break while someone is back dodging you actually lock on to them and follow them through their dodge, plus they can't counter your GB since they just dodged, it's the best offense against it. Its actually fairly easy to punish someone who abuses back dodging. You just gotta work on the timing, anticipate your opponents dodge, especially if all they're doing is spamming it in a combo. Another important note is your spacing, if they wanna back dodge then use an attack to close the gap make sure you have enough room to dodge or parry.

That only works if they were well within GB ranged and back dashed early.
back dashing is 100% safe if you have proper spacing and timing.

Yoshimitsu_440
02-18-2018, 08:23 PM
They are aware of how strong back dash and rolling are.
They are looking for a solution they just don't know what would be a good one because according to them assassins are supposed to be more slippery.
I personally think they should nerf it's distance and speed when you are OOS as that is when back dodging to avoid things is the most annoying.

So tell me, what are u suppose to do when u are oos and ur enemy can spam ub bashes and ub bash cancel into gb? Not dodge?

BarbeQMichael
02-18-2018, 09:18 PM
OOS dodges should at best make you simply dodge the attack while not gaining distance, currently it is just sad how assassin's are unpunishable because they dodge or run away and regain stamina, then get back to fight. Might aswell give them infinite stamina because there is no penaulty for them to go OOS.

Justicator
02-18-2018, 09:53 PM
Completely agree with you guys. It feels like everyone except assassins has to manage their stamina, because assassins get a free pass when oos due to their insane back dodge distance.

So tell me, what are u suppose to do when u are oos and ur enemy can spam ub bashes and ub bash cancel into gb? Not dodge?
-Manage your stamina! If you are spamming PK zone, you deserve to go out of stamina and be punished for it. Once oos, you predict when to block, parry or make a small dash, but going oos should be punishing on all characters equally and pose a real danger. Assassins should NOT get a free pass on this, they already have light spamming, side attacks and deflects!

Knight_Raime
02-18-2018, 09:57 PM
So tell me, what are u suppose to do when u are oos and ur enemy can spam ub bashes and ub bash cancel into gb? Not dodge?

What are you supposed to do?
how about learn to actually read the situation and react accordingly.
Or maybe learn to manage your stamina better.

Assassins don't deserve an easy out of a situation they put themselves in by playing poorly.
No hero does.

Alustar.
02-18-2018, 11:05 PM
So tell me, what are u suppose to do when u are oos and ur enemy can spam ub bashes and ub bash cancel into gb? Not dodge?

Exactly as knightraime said, you need to have s better handle on your battle resources to prevent going it of stamina to begin with.

Stamina braking should be far more punishing for every hero across the board from where I sit, it's to say to burn stamina and turtle till it's back.

Arekonator
02-18-2018, 11:14 PM
No one said you should not be able to dodge attacks when OOS.
We are just saying you should not be able to mash back dodge when OOS and be 100% safe because no one can touch you.

okelacular
02-19-2018, 12:57 AM
So raider after a parried zone is dead caz hes oos ? Makes perfect sense what you want, hit that training arena and stap crying here

Arekonator
02-19-2018, 01:16 AM
So raider after a parried zone is dead caz hes oos ? Makes perfect sense what you want, hit that training arena and stap crying here
Did you even bothered to read the damn thread? The issue is that SOME characters (mainly assassins, PK is the most prominent example) have dodge that is so fast and covers so much ground, even when OOS that they can just keep dodging backwards and you cant touch them, meaning that them going OOS is just minor inconvinience, while for somebody else it can be a pretty serious problem.
I know you are desperately trying to feel good about yourself by giving out the "git gud", but because you didnt bothered to understend what the point of complaints is, you are just come off as a dunce, to put it mildly.

Dane520123
02-19-2018, 02:00 AM
Yes letís nerf orochi more please because so hes -F tier

Kelson27
02-19-2018, 04:14 AM
I can't say those who back dodge generally get away from me... I particularly remember a shinobi who would drop in, do as much damage and try to bug out. Every time he was out of gas and running away I was at him with a sword in his chest, or an axe in his face.

Only time I've ever seen it really out of reach is when they break out a feat that lets them run during OOS or have a speed boost activate.... but that's a feat... they're forgoing something to be using those.

Given that a lot of classes can bring your stamina down pretty quickly, there needs to be something that lets you regain your stamina, back dodge helps but it certainly ain't guaranteed, as somebody has already said to, guard break tracks them, you'll tele-magically follow them and throw there back dodging asses on the ground. No more back dodging from down there.

mrmistark
02-19-2018, 05:15 AM
Iím on the fence about this.

I understand that the conversation is mainly focused on assassins, but honestly I donít think it should be nerfed. Maybe yes, CERTAIN characters should have a small distance nerf, however, overall I think it is fine.

In my experience from OOS, I do back dodge. Being a Kensei main, his back dodge is not amazing and I can say that you HAVE to react to literally everything like someone previously said we should. Reading a pause in combat SHOULD be rewarded with some distance in my opinion though. Again, I understand itís more focused on assassins. For this I think for the amount of health each Assassin has, it isnít very unreasonable for them to make a calculated backwards dodge. Hereís my theory:

1. They are oos up close and at this point itís your fault for not applying enough pressure

2. They start out too far away anyways, but why is running to them not an option? I donít understand why them dodging is an issue when you can full speed Sprint right to them? And again, if they are that far away to start, WHY are they that far away if youíre fighting them?

3. With stamina draining CC and moves like cents pommel strike, raiders carry, shugoki headbutt, all that almost instantly drain your whole stamina bar, saying to watch your stamina, while generally being a good piece of advice, doesnít always cut it in these situations where 3/4 of your stamina can be drained so easily. Having the ability to make a calculated backward dodge to create space seems logical especially as these three characters in particular all have easy access UB heavies which they can force a reaction into practically 50/50s.

4. I think itís also noteworthy to bring up the fact when it comes to stamina, that some characters have such a rediculous recovery that these should be fixed before we start trying to nerf a simply dodge mechanic. Iím talking specifically about the newer characters here (except my boy HL, poor bastard). They all seem to have a much faster recovery than everyone else, Glad being the worst offender, recovering in 3 seconds.

I guess what Iím saying is, IN GENERAL I feel that if they are able to slip away, that is more the fault of us as players (I do it too) for not applying enough pressure and allowing them to do so. A forced reaction is all it takes to stop them honestly. If they try to backward dodge your attack then cancel your attack and GB them. Obviously if you Sprint up to them and spam GB itís going to be obvious that they just need to counter. It just takes a simple mix up to force a reaction.

Tyrjo
02-19-2018, 09:26 AM
Dodge back in OOS state can't be the I win button it is right now. It's not a question only about assassins it's a question about the whole roster. If someone effed up and went out of stamina, now suffer the consequences.

mrmistark
02-19-2018, 04:55 PM
Dodge back in OOS state can't be the I win button it is right now.

WOW! What!? Hahaha an ďI winĒ button? Because someone back dodges while theyíre in OOS itís an auto loss? HUGE exaggeration here. Some characters back dodge does indeed cover a large amount of distance, but to call it an ďI winĒ button is absurd. If you canít get any damage in UNLESS you can punish someone whoís OOS then Iíd say thatís just a personal problem.

There has pretty much ever been only 1 ďI winĒ button, and that was first season revenge when you could activate it and literally one shot a whole team....back dodge hardly comes close to the equivalent.

I know everyone has their opinion and itís impossible to change most peopleís cause we are all so rediculous head strong on these forums, but for the reasons I stated above, I really donít think back dodge as a whole needs any sort of nerf. You could tone down certain assassins, but it is thier trait to have a rubber band type of play for the most part. Again as stated above, if they do get away, thatís your fault for not applying pressure or fients for an easy GB or if they were too far away to start, then you can easily run to them.

Tyrjo
02-19-2018, 06:00 PM
OK, I exaggerated. It's a Get Out of Jail Free card that needs to be addressed.