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Archo-Vax
02-10-2018, 03:05 AM
I don't know if this is just the games' mechanics being iffy, and I don't know if it's just a personality flaw of mine.

After playing Duels all day, I've come to a very grim conclusion.

I am utterly unable to enjoy this.

No matter the situation.

Even when I'm beating someone like it's my job, getting a perfect 3-0, it just... feels numb. All of it. It never feels like I'm actually improving, and never feels like any victory is actually earned. And there's barely any XP or leveling gain, so I can't take joy in that, either. Every time I win, at least with Kensei, it feels like it came about because the opponent wasn't paying enough attention, or because they decided to take pity on me. And when I lose, even when they don't win with spam, or cheese, or with some Mix-Up nonsense (yes, I still think that Mix-Ups are just glorified spamming tactics, but with a few extra steps), it always feels like I'm being cheated out of a win. Which makes me want to win, but then only results in me gaining no satisfaction from that win.

When someone beats me, it feels like I've learned nothing. Even after all of this time playing the game, I feel no wiser than when I started back in 2017, aside from learning a few cheap tricks and certain little logistical facts. It always feels like there's no real way to improve... at all. I even had someone say that I was spamming Light Attacks. My tactic, I think, was to throw out intermittent Light Attacks at random, unexpected intervals to shut down any Charges or combos. I don't know if I was spamming, or if the person in question just sucks at parrying (I was playing as Kensei, at the time), but it made me think about simply turning off the console. First people tell me that turtling is bad, then someone tells me to not go on the offensive. I mostly rely on rote response, anyway, so maybe I should just be defensive all the time.

I don't know if it's because I've never actually won anything of substance, before (in or out of game), but none of it ever feels GOOD. It's all just... a desperate attempt at victory and trying not to break my controller in half. Whenever I lose, no matter the circumstance, I feel the urge to strangle something small and defenseless. I'm not convinced that I'd be able to restrain myself if the opponent were suddenly teleported to my location. I'm a boxer for a reason.

For Honor attracted me because it seemed like the kind of game that I could be good at. The other multiplayer games I've had in the past have all been disasters in terms of my success in them. Halo, COD, XCOM, DOOM (2016), Battlefield, Assassins' Creed. The only game I truly excelled in was Halo 4, and I'm not even sure that that's valid. Halo: Reach is easier for me, these days, but not at the time. Back at the start of For Honor, I was an absolute monster. In and out of Dominion. Now, though... it's become a chore.

So. Has anyone else ever had this happen to them? Or do I have some sort of mental condition that makes me a sore loser and a dissatisfied winner? Is it the game, or am I simply not made for multiplayer?

Jazz117Volkov
02-10-2018, 04:03 AM
The first thing that comes to mind is: Take a break from the game. That may not help, the very suggestion may in fact be irritating. However, some of the symptoms you're describing do sound rather like burn-out. The entire game is just uninteresting at the moment because the version of the game in your mind--the game you want to play--and the one in your console are different. The misalignment is causing something like ennui: expectations not being met combined with the constant hypocrisy of your opponents. "Stop light spamming" says the guy whose spam kept getting interrupted.

I've experienced something similar with this game and others. I've played for long enough that sometimes all I can think about is how clumsy and simplistic the game modes are. And nothing goes anywhere. It's like you said, there's no progression. Maybe a new colour scheme now and then, and new emblem every 100 hours of play, but for the most part the game's progression is the grind for Steel.

For Honor has also come to bore me with how its become a "standardized gaming" conformist. Beyond the original idea; the 3D combat system [Art of Battle], it's an exceptionally generic structure. The Faction War, for all its improvements, is still just ornamental. Nothing in the game means anything. And if I'm being honest, the constant barrage of new heroes this past year borderline ruined the game. If we can leave behind the conversation of balance and just talk fun, the new heroes are not fun to fight against. Defeating a Shaman feels like luck half the time; Cent parry timing is so awkward it's irritating just to watch. There's no rhythm to this stuff; it's turned playing into working; fun into a chore.

There's a gem of a game here somewhere; the premiere fantasy warrior simulator. But the constant barrage of spam reliant heroes, lazy game modes, spike infested reskins, and the utter lack of progression or conclusion to the hours spent makes that brilliance look more like hope. And hope fades.

Okita_Soji..
02-10-2018, 04:32 AM
I wouldn't say it's you I think it's the way people play the game. I've been very discouraged lately playing 4s, dominion in particular. Despite the damn disconnects or the adjusting when players leave my issue is more with the people who play the game in PVP.

Lately I've been playing vs AI and the player count is lower so I'm usually paired with lower skilled players but they play the game better than people in PVP. I don't know what the real difference is but they usually have much higher rep levels than me so they must not play PVP so it doesn't read their true skill. I always face level 3 bots which I really like but are too easy as I only die 1-2 times per match. The game is always a win and there is no real ganking or terrible play by teammates. I really enjoy the game but it is too easy vs AI. The teams are random but we kind of pair up 2 and 2 and take control of the zones. It works well.

Now in a recent PVP game, Sentinel, I joined late and saw 2 of my team was in zone A and it was a 2v3 so I wan to help. I got there and quickly took out the most wounded one, one of my team went down and I beat the that foe. My other teammate finished off the other opponent. I started to revive my fallen teammate and was hit stopping the revive and I said "ok." My teammate then revived him and spammed "I got this." We stayed at that zone until 2 of them returned. I backed up ready for the attack and noticed my teammates had left. I fought until I got revenge then retreated as I knocked them down. It turned into a 3v1 as I ran away and died. The rest of the match it was a 3 or 4 player gank running around and we lost. All the other team was better at controlling the gank than we were at stopping them. So every encounter was frustrating. My teammates were annoying and the gank squad sucked.

It seems that every PVP game I get into it is just a matter of who has a better gank. Playing on either side is not fun. The game is better playing vs AI than people. I don't feel I'm growing as a player vs AI as I can react to what ever they throw at me. In PVP it much more of a challenge as it seems I'm 50/50 lately in that mode. So when I think I'm getting better and feel good I get smacked around vs people and wonder what is going on. This game is great but really frustrating and terrible at the same time......

mrmistark
02-10-2018, 06:41 AM
Holy moley, you have described everything I have been thinking lately.

I am a Kensei main, and I totally feel your pain. I played a player today, rep 17 warden. I EASILY smashed him with my rep 4 aramusha. He just couldn’t hang with how quick the chain with my non stop barrage of all kinds of fients. Enter my Kensei at round 2. You FEEL the total difference. People who deny the tier system and say “it’s all about player skill” is full of crap. I understand there are reworks but here’s what is EXTREAMLY annoying at least as a Kensei main:

-when using him I have to work harder than playing with nearly any other cast memeber to achieve similar results

-players who turtle and are good at it (can parry lights on console) literally are almost impossible as the only viable way as a Kensei to force any sort of reaction is the UB chain finisher which means getting a 3 string chain without parry started or wait for an attack and go for the dodge attack into top heavy UB which is stupidly parryable even for the crappiest of player reflexes. This leads to my next point....

- EVEN if against said turtle you can get the UB heavy off, it again is SO much work just to make something out of it. You have to come up with some elaborate nonsense with 3 dang fients just to not get punished for the damage equivalent of one heavy

- now on the other hand, all the other players who the mix ups just are too easy to do against them. They suck the fun out of the game by making my elaborate skills unnecessary. The same kind of people who the whole duel you can literally dodge attack, top UB into soft feint side heavy as the try to dodge. You’d be surprised even at high levels how bad some players are at adjusting. You think I’m crazy for saying so? Literally just played a rep 40 orochi who I 3-0 dueled with this exact scenario. He picked up the soft fient round 3, in which I stopped the soft fient and went into hard cencel GB. One simple change to keep the destruction train on course. BORING!

You can probably guess I’m very excited to see the reworks, but from what I saw it looked like the UB finisher can just go to any side now. I heard about a pommel hit but have yet to hear or see anything about it.

For honors biggest problem for me is: I’m stuck in a very specific skill location. At the cusps of diamond tier type of play but my reaction times (despite trying hard to make them better) just can’t seem to improve so I fall slightly short. The problem is everyone below that with Kensei at least (he is my main) are just generally not skilled enough to handle the way I play with him unless they again are complete turtle gods.

This leaves my playing to either working so dang hard just to loose or that I could basically play one handed and go 3-0 with how simplistic and easy it is to do a successful mix up.

The problem here though, is like you said. I literally CANT get better with my main. I know everything to expect, everyone’s kits, my reaction time just isn’t improving and I’ve capped the personal level skill my main has to offer for someone with my reaction time (my record being 320 something ms, HORRIBLE). I literally have such strong intuition about what each character will do next when I’m playing them that it surpasses my need to even have reaction time until higher up in the rankings. Even then it’s not a “I should have done that better”, it’s more of a “I shouldn’t have taken the risk to attempt a parry while OOS or that in comparison to their attack speed Half my attacks are useless as they just 400ms light spam me out of the start up”. The battle isn’t exciting anymore, it’s extreamly predictable and that being said, once your opponent realizes this, they resolve to using only thier cheesiest moves to try and salvage the damage thier predictablity has already done leaving the rest of the match to completely monotonous spamming of moves or they resolve to turtling.

And THEN like you said. I was playing HL yesterday. Some guy kept trying to Gb spam me, also a high rep orochi (what’s with orochis?) and I got a hate message cause I caught on and just kept throwing a top light whenever he would go for the another GB. He got MAD at me because he was so idiotically readable and spammy with his GBs that he allowed me to continuously punish him for it with one of the slowest light attacks in the game.

I think overall, the joy taken away from this game lies in the ganks (unless they’re complete trash, your opponents outnumbering you 3 to 1 will result in auto loss 9/10 and same Vic versa, your team ganging up against 1 is a death sentence for them), the in between skill pockets, the lack of ability to further master your character you’ve been maining for a year, the “win more” style feat system, the disconnects, the lag which makes a CGB or crushing counter strike more of a coin toss than a smart counter move, the HUGE gaps of options and strength in characters, turtles, spammers and just overall toxic players. All ruining the game. They have fixes coming, but let’s be real: players will always look for that free guaranteed damage, they won’t stop ganking, you can raise the skill caps by balancing characters but eventually you’ll reach your personal skill Cap with that character again, and the toxic player base isn’t going anywhere, and if it does that means for honor has actually died instead of “being dead”.


Anyways, sorry for the novel. My vent session is complete. Fingers crossed for good changes, props for the already sound ones coming soon.

PablO_Chaconn
02-10-2018, 02:07 PM
All of your opinions are amazing and I totally agree with all of you .

When for honor first came out it was amazing , I waited a hole year for it . Then the new hero’s came out and it went down hill from there . The game felt completely different and has never been the same .

Like you all said there is no progression what so ever .
I might bore you alittle but now but ......I used to play COD modern warfare , okay but progression was boring . Then killsone2 came out (stay with we ) completely different style with built in tournaments system and a whole clan system with amazing clan battles all in game .

Basically get rid of that silly stupid fraction wars because nobody cares and put a real system inside based on fun .

And the reason nobody plays ranked mode is because it’s the same system mobile games use like clash of clans , bronze league, silver league etc how boring and perfetic

Okita_Soji..
02-10-2018, 03:14 PM
Another thing that bother me after playing for a while is I wonder what am I playing for? My kensei is rep 17, orochi is 28, aramusha is 5 and that's it....I don't care for other heroes and don't care for anything you get as you level them. I run the same looking gear and have the stats where I want them so I just salvage all my loot at the end of a match which is tedious. Play, salvage, ready...

For kensei I run a dominion build, tribute build and a duel build so what ever mode I do I look the same and the feats if they are used are set per build. For orochi I have a revenge build, attacking build and a duel build so at least I go back and forth between the first 2 depending on my opponents. Aramusha I just do 1 build for all as the feats don't change nor do I like other looks than what I have.

It says I've been playing pvp for over 8 days and total over 17 days and I turn it on out of habit. Aramusha I am ok vs level 3 bots but people I can't hit unless I do the combo which I hate doing and try to just do that for minions. Orochi I just aim to do decflects but in pvp it's just about impossible. I can do it in duel and vs Ai so hopefully servers will help that. But that's the only real reason I play him. He runs fast which is nice and I like his look but there is no point to get to level 40 or now 50. You get nothing. My kensei I do the best with but he runs so slow! The rework will be nice as there are more moves to try. But that will get old too.

There is no real reward for playing a character for so long and I'm not the type who wants to try everyone. Playing 10 dominion games in a row while 5 of them don't finish due to errors is annoying. So you play vs AI and that it too easy even against level 3 bots. So you try a tribute and everyone runs around like roaches instead trying to win. Shugoki's capturing flags instead of guarding them, getting the flag knocked out of you by your teammate so your teammate can place it, it's a mess. I tried duels recently and it's a staring contest waiting for someone to attack and make a mistake to parry them. Sure parry changes but no will just attack cause a parry is easy to do even if the reward is just a light. Parrying is much easier to do than deflect and why deflect if a parry is guarantee except it looks cool.

We need some new modes and reasons to keep leveling our favorite heroes. Servers will only do so much, if we get bored with the modes and there is no incentive to keep leveling heroes it doesn't matter how smooth the game is. It is great game and I like the fighting system but we need more things to do and a reason to keep going. Devs do keep tweaking thinks, not always what I want but at least it's something I guess. Hopefully whenever servers get here they have a bunch of modes waiting to keep us going.

Tundra 793
02-10-2018, 03:21 PM
There's a gem of a game here somewhere; the premiere fantasy warrior simulator. But the constant barrage of spam reliant heroes, lazy game modes, spike infested reskins, and the utter lack of progression or conclusion to the hours spent makes that brilliance look more like hope. And hope fades.

This right here says it all, and I agree completely.


But the constant barrage of spam reliant heroes

I've seen some players say that the new heroes are the result of the developers becoming better at designing heroes, but I don't believe that. The new heroes were designed in such a way, that the entirety of Season 5 will be spent re-balancing the 12 original heroes, rather than the 6 DLC ones. That's bad design, and a lot of players have also expressed a dislike for one or more aspects of the new heroes, and making the Vanilla roster more like them surely isn't the way to go.
I can't see this route being the right one, but I'll reserve final judgement for the actual Season 5 launch.


lazy game modes

Agreed. I do hope that dedicated servers opens up much more potential for bigger, more intricate gamemodes. More minions, more heroes, bigger maps, tempered pace.
In my headcanon, I hope that a bigger gamemode (6v6 for example) set on a large scale map would discourage ganking, and group ups, allowing for more 1v1s, 1v2s and 2v2s in a Dominion style game, rather than spamfest ganksquads we're seeing now.


spike infested reskins

Honestly, there are skins that should never have made it past one interns comment at a pitch meeting. Look at the Procyon shoulders for the Berserker; http://alfalis.de/For_Fashion/img/gear/berserker_a_procyon.jpg
All this does, is cover up 95% of whatever patterns, symbols or engravings you've put on your shoulders. Stuff like this should never have made it into the game. I'd much rather have gone a season or two without any new armors, than get stuff like that.


and the utter lack of progression or conclusion to the hours spent makes that brilliance look more like hope.

Quite right. Emotes, or Effects, even Executions could have been tied into progression instead of the increasingly stupid amount of symbols none of us will ever use.

So much of what ended up in the game, should never have made it past 1 pitch meeting, but they have, and the compounding effect is Archo, Okita, Stark and Pablo feeling the way they do, and they're perfectly justified in feeling that way.

Jazz117Volkov
02-10-2018, 06:49 PM
This leaves my playing to either working so dang hard just to loose or that I could basically play one handed and go 3-0 with how simplistic and easy it is to do a successful mix up.
I know this feeling.

I've poured many hours into this game; I have a fairly comprehensive knowledge of how everything words, but I just don't put in the time to stay sharp against light spam and such. As a consequence I either get disheartened by turtle lords or I feel like a bully. It's becoming increasingly rare to find a fight that I don't win almost immediately or I get bug bit to death over the course of five minutes because my opponent refuses to ever do anything: staring simulator 2017.

I lost a duel recently to a raider. It was a close fight. I mucked up a crushing counter versus his stunning tap and lost the tie breaker. But It honestly felt good losing that fight because he actually wanted to play. We were both being aggressive and were on pretty even footing for the most part.

And then I was in a match where an Orochi kept doing the same three things and kept dying the same three ways.

I'd duel my friends more but you get literally no progression for custom matches, so...yay for incentives, right?



I've seen some players say that the new heroes are the result of the developers becoming better at designing heroes, but I don't believe that. The new heroes were designed in such a way, that the entirety of Season 5 will be spent re-balancing the 12 original heroes, rather than the 6 DLC ones. That's bad design, and a lot of players have also expressed a dislike for one or more aspects of the new heroes, and making the Vanilla roster more like them surely isn't the way to go.
I can't see this route being the right one, but I'll reserve final judgement for the actual Season 5 launch.
Yeah, I've heard that before too. And I also don't agree.

I think For Honor was very clear about what it was trying to be, and I think these spam reliant heroes are exactly the opposite of that; they turn the game into a battle of reaction speeds. Instead of revising the parry system, we got characters who were more difficult to parry. Now the parry system is revised so we have a weak parry and chaotic/quick characters.

The absence of any Vanguards or Heavies in the DLC is telling.


Agreed. I do hope that dedicated servers opens up much more potential for bigger, more intricate gamemodes. More minions, more heroes, bigger maps, tempered pace.
In my headcanon, I hope that a bigger gamemode (6v6 for example) set on a large scale map would discourage ganking, and group ups, allowing for more 1v1s, 1v2s and 2v2s in a Dominion style game, rather than spamfest ganksquads we're seeing now.
Yeah, I do too. I really want to see larger scales battles that last for longer (yield more rewards).

What about a Dominion style mode that slowly progressed; siege towers and the likes against a massive wall or something. The attackers need to hold positions for X amount of XP/time to progress deeper into the citadel, where A, B, and C would progress to new locations. The Defenders need to hold the attackers back for long enough for the match to end (when the proverbial King Theoden arrives). If the attackers win (by holding the "Keep" for X amount of points/time), there should be a tangible effect on the faction war.

The minions and captains would play a much larger role too. Have them going at each other in different areas as the attackers are pushing forward or being held back. Maybe give the defenders options to use the environment against an overwhelming force of AI. You know, have the battle asymmetrical. As it stands, being attacker or defender in Dominion changes your colours...nothing else.


Honestly, there are skins that should never have made it past one interns comment at a pitch meeting. Look at the Procyon shoulders for the Berserker; http://alfalis.de/For_Fashion/img/gear/berserker_a_procyon.jpg
All this does, is cover up 95% of whatever patterns, symbols or engravings you've put on your shoulders. Stuff like this should never have made it into the game. I'd much rather have gone a season or two without any new armors, than get stuff like that.

While we're sharing: this helm (http://alfalis.de/For_Fashion/img/gear/warden_a_lionheart.jpg), these arms (http://alfalis.de/For_Fashion/img/gear/warden_a_executioner.jpg), and my face (https://media.giphy.com/media/TQbCSC7hZj2cU/200.gif).

Knight_Raime
02-10-2018, 07:26 PM
I can some what relate.
Most of my wins don't feel like wins because I beat someone who clearly just couldn't react well enough. Instead of me simply out smarting them/out mind gaming them.
And I haven't learned anything new beyond counters/character kits for months. I personally feel this is because for honor is, at it's base, too simplistic.

Since i'm in an open no filter mood today i'll just throw this out there.
I'm not happy with how "fast and spammy" for honor is becoming.
I ENJOY the idea of base for honor. that being more akin to fencing.

So why do I support these new changes? Honestly? because I find this style of play more fun than the "block forever because you can see everything a mile away" style of play the game was like before the dlc. I came from the souls series looking for a challenge. The "art of battle" system was very daunting to begin with and because I didn't pick it up immediately and struggled for awhile to actually get decent with it I thought the game was amazing.

Turns out it wasn't. and still isn't. There is nothing inherently wrong with being simplistic and it's clear from the base game design plus early discussions with the devs that they were never catering or even thought about a competitive base. They were just a group of people who had a fantasy. I 100% feel like the DLC heros were used as a base to try and give this crowd what they wanted. The issue here for me is that for honor could have been simplistic but also had depth.
If the game was more about what you did with the mechanics to make yourself a good fighter rather than simply using your character to the fullest to trump others in stacked fights it would be more of what I wanted.

Dark souls was incredibly simplistic mechanically. but people learned to use that to create depth, discover tech, and overall give the game the depth. Ultimately it lacked polish. that kind of shine you need for a good game to be a viable competitive game. For honor in many ways worse in both regards. It's mechanics didn't give depth. just exploits that only worked well with some heros. and it didn't have the polish. I'd say post parry changes in season 5 the polish i'm looking for would mostly be there.

But this games main issue is the heros. Both OG and dlc. both have strengths and flaws. I simply struggle to understand why other fighting games manage to have kits and depth to them and not have this kind of issue. the only reason I can come up with is for honors base mechanics. But that's such a vague statement I can't quantify or give a decent conversation on it to help someone understand.

Anyway i'm rambling. I think that for honor should continue this current path. Just for consistency sake. Some people quite enjoy this and i'd rather they try to retain this playerbase than try to go through another year long cycle to address another playerbase of this game. I think that the rest of year 2 should be finishing polishing up the game and then just doing minor support like bug fixes, perhaps minor character balancing. and maybe some new weapons/armor. and another free map or 2. But I don't think we should get more heros at this point. Even if they did manage to find a good middle ground for both the dlc heros and the OG roster.

Instead after most major things are dealt with i'd rather they make a "for honor 2." Really run with their original idea of a fencer game. And try to re approach it. use For honor to understand what didn't work. And potentially bring in fresh eyes. Because I enjoy the art of battle system. It's unique and there is deff something there. I just firmly believe a new title with some fresh eyes along side some people from the OG project would be the best way to handle things.

mrmistark
02-10-2018, 10:25 PM
Instead after most major things are dealt with i'd rather they make a "for honor 2." Really run with their original idea of a fencer game. And try to re approach it. use For honor to understand what didn't work. And potentially bring in fresh eyes. Because I enjoy the art of battle system. It's unique and there is deff something there. I just firmly believe a new title with some fresh eyes along side some people from the OG project would be the best way to handle things.

I agree with this. Once everything is said and done and balanced out they should leave it and make a new game farther in the future.

I think thier BIGGEST problem with what you said wasn’t mechanics or the character kits, more the lack of character customization. The core mechanic is beautiful. It works, it’s complex yet simple. It’s what got the majority of us sucked in.

The problem is that the ONLY customization in game is colors, symbols, and gear.

“Gear customization” apart from looks is a laughing matter though. In general, thanks to defense penetration, there really is a very clear cut way to set up your hero’s stats leaving really only a couple different VIABLE gear builds depending on player preference of revenge duration vs defense and execution health regen vs revive speed. The rest are pretty easily selected.


What do most games have that help create a less monotonous and polished game? CHOICES.

For for honor 2, I think they need to take this idea and run with it. Same core system, but give CHOICES!

My dream of for honor 2:

Before you do anything, you have 6 character slots. You pick that slot, make or female, customize your heros overall facial and bodily structure, and choose a faction. Start the game in a mandatory tutorial mode with a “mentor/teacher” character of that faction. After a basic understanding of the game and each generalized weapon type, you complete your training and are brought to the armory. Here you can choose what primary weapon type you want, your mentor asks, “so, what kind of weapon are you looking for?” And enter response:

TWO HANDED: focuses on heavy hits attack in general
-axes, swords, spears, clubs, staffs, maces, ect.

WEAPON AND SHIELD: focuses on defense and disabling moves
- sword and shield/spear/flail/ect.

DUEL WIELD: focuses on speed and dexterity
- swords, axes, mix of both, ect.

Once you choose the type of weapon you can choose between what weapon you want, some examples:

Firstly, each weapon you can choose will have a diagram of what you are getting. Think of a hexagon with range, damage, speed/dexterity, defense, and stamina at each point with a pinpoint on each part of the hexagon where that specific weapon compares to the others. For instance, a war hammer would have damage and range pinpoints close to those points of the hexagon, but speed/dexterity and stamina not so much. Adversely a short sword and shield would be a high peak defense with decent speed/dexterity and stamina but bad range. You get The idea. They also have different chains to go with them, Spears, smaller weapons ect. would be more light oriented, while larger weapons would be a mix of both light and heavies. Depending on the weapon, you also get two basic properties: smaller weapons give various deflects and follow ups, shield weapons give superior Block properties and potential for HA heavies or CC, heavy weapons give UB finishers and in between weapons can sometimes have HA on heavies ect.

After you chose your weapon, you can pick a special property with your chains and one with your neutrals:
- give chain finisher or in chain finishers, varrying on bleed damage, Ub, HA, soft fients ect.
- neutrals would include Ub slow heavies, medium speed HA heavies, CC with follow up, ect.

All of these would be a branch option type deal kind of like other PvP fighting games.

Anyways, that’s be awesome in my opinion. It truely would make combat completely unpredictable and interesting with every encounter. The important part is balancing of all the choices so no single option is too Op.

bob333e
02-10-2018, 11:22 PM
This might go unnoticed for replying late, I just saw your thread.

I think you're burning out. The reason I am saying this, is that I was in your exact same position, from Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, and Dark Souls 3 PvP.

I'm a person who came from the Dark Souls background, into For Honor, because he wanted something new in terms of multiplayer online melee combat, and wanted a break from Dark Souls PvP. This is one reason why I've never bought For Honor on release. I was still too tied up with Dark Souls back at the time.

You reach a certain point where you feel you're countering the same BS methods and mechanics over and over. You're literally not doing anything new. You've crossed past the threshold, into a greyed out zone, without walls, doors, or windows. Everything is blank, you've become an automaton whose task during a match is to counter A with B, counter C with D, punish E with F. Over and over again.

When you've been besting someone all match, but then they pop regen or chug estus, and pull out the cheesiest weapon and go spam R1s, you feel robbed of a rightfully earned win through skill and tactic alone. To counter their BS, you must resort to some sort of BS as well. And whenever you feel the necessary need to resort to a degree of BS, you feel you fell flat. You've been wasting your time all match, and that when you finally resorted to some BS, that's when the actual match began. Who was the bigger pisser of the two.

Proceed to win, they'll target you all day long wherever you two cross paths again and they'll attack out of the blue for no reason. Proceed to lose, you'll get pointed down, laughed at, emote-spammed at, poop-thrown at.

There was never any satisfaction from duelling, and besting, these people. It was never about the satisfaction of combat because, they weren't giving you combat in the first place. All they want is to win. They don't care how. Win yourself, they'll invent any excuse and they'll direct their hatred and anger your way, blaming you for all their losses and defeats, making you the center of their own in-game problems.

You feel you've done little that requires skill, in order to beat them, because you had to resort to some BS, to counter their BS. The reverse is also true. Lose to utter BS, you've learned nothing because, utter BS is not even combat. It's a tedious, hair-pulling chore to sit through and counter it with conventional battle tactics and combative techniques. But, resort to even a bit of BS, it makes your day easier and paves you a smoother road for the 'you won' screen.

It's not a mental condition; it's your personal level of tolerance to what we, individually, consider as a 'safe and relaxing environment' to enjoy some time away from the pressures of the real world. It has also nothing to do with personality. It's something that the game allows the player to abuse. In any multiplayer setting, people will abuse something. It falls to each of us how much of this abuse we can tolerate before calling it a day and turning off the game.

Here, these are samples of what I deal with on an almost daily basis. These happened earlier today while I was doing takedown orders in Duel.

https://i.imgur.com/m5uYFWQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/QHGFbry.png

As you can see, I don't take these people seriously. They make me laugh and I ironically reflected that in both replies. They don't crack the outer shell; but deep inside, I get annoyed at how often this happens. It just makes me sad that if I use my skill, I'll be hated; if I don't, I'll be laughed at; and if I cheese, I'll be judged a cheapo for life.

The general For Honor community certainly doesn't help. This game is relatively young, and it's already filled with toxic cesspools.

Don't let them crack your outer shell, my friend. Do take a break when you need it. And you do need one.

Knight_Raime
02-10-2018, 11:30 PM
I agree with this. Once everything is said and done and balanced out they should leave it and make a new game farther in the future.

I think thier BIGGEST problem with what you said wasn’t mechanics or the character kits, more the lack of character customization. The core mechanic is beautiful. It works, it’s complex yet simple. It’s what got the majority of us sucked in.

The problem is that the ONLY customization in game is colors, symbols, and gear.

“Gear customization” apart from looks is a laughing matter though. In general, thanks to defense penetration, there really is a very clear cut way to set up your hero’s stats leaving really only a couple different VIABLE gear builds depending on player preference of revenge duration vs defense and execution health regen vs revive speed. The rest are pretty easily selected.


What do most games have that help create a less monotonous and polished game? CHOICES.

For for honor 2, I think they need to take this idea and run with it. Same core system, but give CHOICES!

My dream of for honor 2:

Before you do anything, you have 6 character slots. You pick that slot, make or female, customize your heros overall facial and bodily structure, and choose a faction. Start the game in a mandatory tutorial mode with a “mentor/teacher” character of that faction. After a basic understanding of the game and each generalized weapon type, you complete your training and are brought to the armory. Here you can choose what primary weapon type you want, your mentor asks, “so, what kind of weapon are you looking for?” And enter response:

TWO HANDED: focuses on heavy hits attack in general
-axes, swords, spears, clubs, staffs, maces, ect.

WEAPON AND SHIELD: focuses on defense and disabling moves
- sword and shield/spear/flail/ect.

DUEL WIELD: focuses on speed and dexterity
- swords, axes, mix of both, ect.

Once you choose the type of weapon you can choose between what weapon you want, some examples:

Firstly, each weapon you can choose will have a diagram of what you are getting. Think of a hexagon with range, damage, speed/dexterity, defense, and stamina at each point with a pinpoint on each part of the hexagon where that specific weapon compares to the others. For instance, a war hammer would have damage and range pinpoints close to those points of the hexagon, but speed/dexterity and stamina not so much. Adversely a short sword and shield would be a high peak defense with decent speed/dexterity and stamina but bad range. You get The idea. They also have different chains to go with them, Spears, smaller weapons ect. would be more light oriented, while larger weapons would be a mix of both light and heavies. Depending on the weapon, you also get two basic properties: smaller weapons give various deflects and follow ups, shield weapons give superior Block properties and potential for HA heavies or CC, heavy weapons give UB finishers and in between weapons can sometimes have HA on heavies ect.

After you chose your weapon, you can pick a special property with your chains and one with your neutrals:
- give chain finisher or in chain finishers, varrying on bleed damage, Ub, HA, soft fients ect.
- neutrals would include Ub slow heavies, medium speed HA heavies, CC with follow up, ect.

All of these would be a branch option type deal kind of like other PvP fighting games.

Anyways, that’s be awesome in my opinion. It truely would make combat completely unpredictable and interesting with every encounter. The important part is balancing of all the choices so no single option is too Op.

I mean i'm not sure I can get behind all of that. but I do think your idea on ditching heros and going with weapons to be the "main" thing that differentiates things is probably the way to go. And your idea about special properties is interesting too. As they're basic enough but if you learn to combine them with the weapons and base games mechanics it could add the depth i'm looking for.

mrmistark
02-11-2018, 06:26 AM
I mean i'm not sure I can get behind all of that. but I do think your idea on ditching heros and going with weapons to be the "main" thing that differentiates things is probably the way to go. And your idea about special properties is interesting too. As they're basic enough but if you learn to combine them with the weapons and base games mechanics it could add the depth i'm looking for.

Yeah it was just a generalized rough draft of bs, but just an example of the depth of how I wish the character customization would be for the next for honor. It would totally throw out the monotony of the same characters and predictable combat. Builds would finally be completely customized and no 2 characters would be the same! I’m a big customizations guy. I like my characters to stand out as my own flavor. For honor drastically caps the creativity and strategy of builds IMO.

The_B0G_
02-11-2018, 06:57 AM
If you feel bored, stop playing duels, I find them extremely boring personally. Play dominion, sure it's unfair, chaotic, and sometimes frustrating, but you can never call it boring.

If you win a 2v1, 3v1 or 4v1 it feels progressively more rewarding, there is nothing more satisfying then getting jumped by a few players, killing them all and executing the last one with the longest, most humiliating execution in your arsenal.

Archeun
02-11-2018, 09:57 PM
It's the game. The best way to deal with For Honor is simple. Uninstall and play something else. There is a reason this game went from having a 60k average playerbase on PC to a 2k average playerbase on PC (Steam charts anyway). The gankfest modes ruin the game for me. The only reason I play is because at the moment I'm waiting for 2 other games to come out. When they do; For Honor and it's "Leet" spamming/bug and exploiting using pro players can take this and stick it.

Knight_Raime
02-11-2018, 10:57 PM
It's the game. The best way to deal with For Honor is simple. Uninstall and play something else. There is a reason this game went from having a 60k average playerbase on PC to a 2k average playerbase on PC (Steam charts anyway). The gankfest modes ruin the game for me. The only reason I play is because at the moment I'm waiting for 2 other games to come out. When they do; For Honor and it's "Leet" spamming/bug and exploiting using pro players can take this and stick it.

Keep that toxic attitude up bro. it's going to do you well in life.
Also. most exploits have been fixed.
Flicker is gone.
soft feinting GB is gone.
majority of unlock tech is gone. remaining is very specific inputs and not really possible for majority of players.
and devaluing everything to spam just shows your maturity.

Finally. there were several reasons for the population drop. Yet despite how flawed the game supposedly is you still choose to play something that pisses you off to this level.
I wonder if the issue really is the game or if it's you.

Vakris_One
02-12-2018, 03:10 PM
Archo, it sounds like you have a case of burnout brought upon by the, quite frankly, rather sh**y quality that 1v1s have become in Duel (and Brawl). Happens to me too. Every time I play Duel or ranked Duel for a bit of time I start to lose the will to live. Between the turtle lords, the cheese spammers, the toxic attitudes you get for either winning or losing the 1v1 modes in this game have become in my opinion complete and utter garbage for the most part.

At the start of For Honor I used to enjoy Duel and Elimination (remember when you could actually find a match in this mode?) and Brawl was my absolute favourite mode. Everybody played for fun back then. Now, way too many people play as if their life depends desperately on winning in a video game no matter how many safe moves and cheese they need to use to crutch their way to that win. And if they lose then some of them will make sure to intimate that you're the worst human being ever for not letting them win.

Long story short, 1v1s have become way too toxic in this game mostly because the majority of the playerbase who play 1v1s have forgotten about having fun and instead have decided to put too much emphasis on scoring wins as safely and as easily as they can. For someone who just wants to have fun it simply leaves you feeling hollow whether you win or lose. And for a loss you're often left feeling angry that you lost to cheap hits.

My advice: stay away from Duel because that has become the sole domain of try harding and the place where you will encounter almost everything that is wrong with both the community and the game's mechanics all in one.

Archeun
02-12-2018, 08:44 PM
My attitude has done very well in life. I live in a nice house, have a beautiful wife; a girlfriend who lives with us who satisfies me sexually (when the wife isn't around) and does all the house work. Having said that; it's nowhere near as fun as I thought it would be. Making 2 women happy is the most difficult chore in the world. It doesn't help the GF has daddy issues and is 23 (I'm 36). You won't believe anything I've said and it doesn't matter. I play the game because i'm recovering from a spinal surgery that did not work to fix the constant pain in my back. The pain causes me to be a bit grouchy which isn't helped by the large amount of pain medications I am forced to take to control it. Part of my irritation with the game is because of people like you who comment on things they don't have any idea what they are talking about. My attitude on the game is reflected in the small amount of people who actually play it. If the game was amazing, balanced and non-toxic; the game would have a population in the hundreds of thousands or millions instead of 3k on at once on PC in terms of the Steam platform. People like you, with your judgmental attitudes and ability to talk out of what you think with, doesn't help. The population drop began in March of 2017 and the population hasn't grown since.

Also, if you think that me making a statement on a game is me being pissed off, you need to get out more because you clearly have no idea what being pissed off entails. Thankfully, I care about what people say online about as much as I care about what I drop off in the toilet nightly. So, take your judgmental opinions and stick them because clearly you are who/what I referred too in the last sentence in my original post. Enjoy your day =-).

Tundra 793
02-12-2018, 08:53 PM
I live in a nice house, have a beautiful wife; a girlfriend who lives with us who satisfies me sexually (when the wife isn't around) and does all the house work. Having said that; it's nowhere near as fun as I thought it would be. Making 2 women happy is the most difficult chore in the world. It doesn't help the GF has daddy issues and is 23 (I'm 36). You won't believe anything I've said and it doesn't matter. I play the game because i'm recovering from a spinal surgery that did not work to fix the constant pain in my back. The pain causes me to be a bit grouchy which isn't helped by the large amount of pain medications I am forced to take to control it.

Even if that's all lies, you've still got yourself one hell of a pitch for a Netflix original movie right there.

Illyrian_King
02-12-2018, 09:24 PM
The battles are short and simple ... if you played one match like 30min with more deep mechanics like if the zones A and C would have archers and have a tactic value (just as an example), it would feel completely different

Archeun
02-12-2018, 09:40 PM
@Tundra793. LOL. My wife tells me to write a book all the time. It's not all fun and games. The GF bugs the crap out of me for attention; my wife works all day, I have 2 daughters who are 10 and 11; so much Estrogen in the house it's insane. The kids can't know about the arrangement between me, wife and GF and that causes me stress. So far I've had 2 major spine surgeries; the 1st was a fusion and the 2nd was a revision surgery because the 1st one did not heal properly. The pain medications are terrible and I had to have a hemorrhoid surgery which so far is the most painful thing I've ever undergone in my life. My original response wasn't a angry response but the guy's reply really annoyed me especially the maturity part. While I don't disagree that I certainly need to act more mature in certain situations; I've undergone more in my life than 99% of people will and most importantly, taken care of myself and child. My mother killed herself in 2009 and a week to the day later, my now ex-wife advised me she had been stealing from her job, was caught and would be going to jail. She went to prison for 3 years and I got full custody. Met my wife while I was completing my AAS in Computer Networking and just finished my Bachelors in Technology Management. The saddest part is I have very little ambition.

You could argue the house isn't nice. It's only 3 bedrooms with a Arizona room (room off the main house where I have all our PC's, miniatures ( I dabble in Warhammer) and other things.

I can't disagree though that I can be fairly moody. I get aggravated more often than I should and about things that really don't matter. I play For Honor because it's nice to play a game where I can release some of the pent up aggression I have from all the stress but it really aggravates me playing in modes like Dominion (which is literally just ganking gone wild) or against people who are using exploits like lag switching or broken mechanics. I would very much like to see improvements in the game and community since that only helps the game grow and become better.

Yes; sometimes life is stranger than fiction.

Knight_Raime
02-12-2018, 09:41 PM
My attitude has done very well in life. I live in a nice house, have a beautiful wife; a girlfriend who lives with us who satisfies me sexually (when the wife isn't around) and does all the house work. Having said that; it's nowhere near as fun as I thought it would be. Making 2 women happy is the most difficult chore in the world. It doesn't help the GF has daddy issues and is 23 (I'm 36). You won't believe anything I've said and it doesn't matter. I play the game because i'm recovering from a spinal surgery that did not work to fix the constant pain in my back. The pain causes me to be a bit grouchy which isn't helped by the large amount of pain medications I am forced to take to control it. Part of my irritation with the game is because of people like you who comment on things they don't have any idea what they are talking about. My attitude on the game is reflected in the small amount of people who actually play it. If the game was amazing, balanced and non-toxic; the game would have a population in the hundreds of thousands or millions instead of 3k on at once on PC in terms of the Steam platform. People like you, with your judgmental attitudes and ability to talk out of what you think with, doesn't help. The population drop began in March of 2017 and the population hasn't grown since.

Also, if you think that me making a statement on a game is me being pissed off, you need to get out more because you clearly have no idea what being pissed off entails. Thankfully, I care about what people say online about as much as I care about what I drop off in the toilet nightly. So, take your judgmental opinions and stick them because clearly you are who/what I referred too in the last sentence in my original post. Enjoy your day =-).

I mean if those things are what you consider good to validate how you choose to handle things that's your issue not mine. Doesn't change that your behavior isn't a good behavior nor is it excusable. There are literally hundreds of games out there for honor isn't going to help ease your pain from surgery. So. Not really the best excuse to continue playing something you actively dislike.

The only thing In my original statement that "I had no idea about" is your lifes situation. everything else I posted about the game itself is correct. You do realize some of the irony in your post right? You talk about the game being toxic as a bad point. Yet you are toxic here on the forums? You're adding to the toxicity then. and the line "people like you with your judgmental attitudes and ability to talk out of what you think with doesn't help" is also ironic. How exactly does your toxicity help the game? How does you coming to the forums and dev bashing help?

I never claimed that the population was growing. I merely pointed out that there are many reasons for a games population to drop. Personally I believe that the game is doing just fine. As the console side is still mostly active and as far as I knew has always been the bigger population of the 2. It's still popular enough to be streamed and posted on youtube from what i've seen as well. Am I saying that everything is fine and in a good spot because of this? No. And I could type a whole thread out of every little issue that i have with this game. The difference between me and people I challenge on the forums like yourself is attitude. I try to be constructive with my feedback.

Considering this is the internet on a text based forum there is very little I can accurately gleam from a post. So the whole "you need to get out more" poke again is just show casing what kind of person you are. If you didn't want any possibility of someone assuming you were pissed you could have done a much better job writing your original post that I quoted. If you truly even are 36 then i'm ashamed. Because you're in the same peer group as some of my long time friends. and they're a lot more mature than you come off from your posts. especially this one. But any further attempt at pointing out how your post is coming off is just going to be met with further smug derogatory comments. So i'll just do with you what I do with everyone else I find to be rather unreasonable on here. and put you on ignore.

bye man.

Tundra 793
02-12-2018, 09:48 PM
Yes; sometimes life is stranger than fiction.

Aight, I'm starting to believe you. No way you'd make all that stuff up to justify a joke. But it is starting to sound like an HBO pitch, they handle mature dramas way better than Netflix.

Archeun
02-12-2018, 09:55 PM
Whatever dude. You need to look at your own actions and words before spewing off about maturity.

Archeun
02-12-2018, 09:59 PM
Lol. It's all true, sadly.