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Trenk2009
02-05-2018, 11:12 PM
1- Give her a light + heavy chain

2- Give her a heavy + heavy chain

3- Make it so her shield bashes can be linked to heavys, not only light.

As of right now the second attack of a valk chain will ALWAYS be a light, making it a 90% parried move at high level of play. By giving her those 3 points above, her mix up game will become viable.

4- Make it so any of her controling move (shield bash, sweep, push ...) deals a small amount of damage (like the raider knee to the face), thus virtually increasing her damage while still focusing her play still around mix-up and fight control. (DPSecond increase while DPStrike still the same)

5- Reduce some of her heavy and dodge recoverys. I'm fine with having huge recoverys on sweep or shield bash, but getting gb out of an heavy on my opponent wake up because I didn't continued my chain is simply dumb.

6- Make it so her heavy starters of any chain can be soft feinted into a light in another direction. This, coupled with the heavy after shield bash move would give her even more mix up while still being totally fair because of the speed of her heavys.

7- Make the second part of her zone attack unblocable.

8- Reduced her stamina consume overall but don't simply increase her stamina pool, so she's able to keep up her mix up game a long time while still being vulnerable to out of stam when parried.

9- (Optional) Make her revenge mode stronger damage wise, since she can't use any of her controlling move when out numbered considering their recoverys.

As you probably understood by now; I don't think the valkyrie simply need some damage. I think that the valkyrie is a superbly designed hero on the paper, she simply needs more ways to keep her ennemies on their feet and guessing so she can work her way out. By giving her tons of other mix up capability you make her the perfectly designed hero: fair/balanced and hard to master. Please do something like that to her, she deserve better than the way she currently is.

S0Mi_xD
02-06-2018, 12:09 AM
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Don't know what you are talking about - but i guess you mean that her lights can be softfeinted into SB like with heavies, if this is the case - no
4.No - to strong.
5. Don't have this problem, the only recovery, that is to much is of a missed GB
6. No - point 1 and 2 are enough for mix ups
7. Can be implemented but wouldn't be much of use.
8. Her stamina management is fine.
9. No - why should she get a exclusive revenge change.

Light - Heavy
Heavy - Heavy would be already enough.
Another point you not mentioned, the stupid GB after blocking her Dash lights

Trenk2009
02-06-2018, 12:38 AM
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Don't know what you are talking about - but i guess you mean that her lights can be softfeinted into SB like with heavies, if this is the case - no
4.No - to strong.
5. Don't have this problem, the only recovery, that is to much is of a missed GB
6. No - point 1 and 2 are enough for mix ups
7. Can be implemented but wouldn't be much of use.
8. Her stamina management is fine.
9. No - why should she get a exclusive revenge change.

Light - Heavy
Heavy - Heavy would be already enough.
Another point you not mentioned, the stupid GB after blocking her Dash lights

I don't think getting gb out of dash light blocked is much of an issue, just make it quite situational that's all.
With my changes, I made up for that with the heavy starter soft feinted into light of another direction which you disagree with because you didn't understand the 3rd point.
Let me re-explain: as of right now, after a shield bash, you can either light, gb, or sweep. Well I think you should also be able to heavy; and since this heavy will count as an heavy starter you would be able to soft feint it into a light from another direction.

So ? Still disagree ?

Also:
"8-Her stamina management is fine" ? Really ? You do realize that mathematicaly she has almost the lowest stamina-consume/damage dealt ratio right ?

"4-No, too strong" ? To strong ? Okay, here's the avg damages of every char except valk:
24.08 22.79 21.57 24.76 25.63 23.23 25.43 25.00 32.31 23.16 23.56 21.65 21.53 24.21 22.84 25.26 22.53
Repectively: Warden, Conqueror, Peacekeeper, Lawbringer, Raider, Warlord, Berserker, Kensei, Shugoki, Orochi, Nobushi, Centurion, Shinobi Highlander, Gladiator, Aramusha, Shaman
Now do you know how much the valkyrie has ? 19.65. How the **** is making her melee attack deal a bit of damage would be too strong exactly ? It would just bring her back with the rest of the cast.

So okay if you think that both of those points combined are a bit too much, I could understand; but the damage one is absolutely required. Period.

Knight_Raime
02-06-2018, 01:42 AM
1, 2, 4 would be fine if only on her headbutt, and 8 i'm fine with.
she should also lose the getting GBed for free on blocked dash attacks.

S0Mi_xD
02-06-2018, 02:01 AM
I don't think getting gb out of dash light blocked is much of an issue, just make it quite situational that's all.
With my changes, I made up for that with the heavy starter soft feinted into light of another direction which you disagree with because you didn't understand the 3rd point.
Let me re-explain: as of right now, after a shield bash, you can either light, gb, or sweep. Well I think you should also be able to heavy; and since this heavy will count as an heavy starter you would be able to soft feint it into a light from another direction.

So ? Still disagree ?

Also:
"8-Her stamina management is fine" ? Really ? You do realize that mathematicaly she has almost the lowest stamina-consume/damage dealt ratio right ?

"4-No, too strong" ? To strong ? Okay, here's the avg damages of every char except valk:
24.08 22.79 21.57 24.76 25.63 23.23 25.43 25.00 32.31 23.16 23.56 21.65 21.53 24.21 22.84 25.26 22.53
Repectively: Warden, Conqueror, Peacekeeper, Lawbringer, Raider, Warlord, Berserker, Kensei, Shugoki, Orochi, Nobushi, Centurion, Shinobi Highlander, Gladiator, Aramusha, Shaman
Now do you know how much the valkyrie has ? 19.65. How the **** is making her melee attack deal a bit of damage would be too strong exactly ? It would just bring her back with the rest of the cast.

So okay if you think that both of those points combined are a bit too much, I could understand; but the damage one is absolutely required. Period.

Dude - I play her myself, and she is already good, the only big problem is, that she can't go light - heavy.

Ah, now i get your 3rd point ^^
It's only light and sweep - GB is not a chain out of SB.
SB counts as a combo starter, and since valk has NO second heavy in any of her chains, she can't chain a heavy.
So If you would add 1. or 2. 3. would be automatically in as well.
I am still against a heavy softfeint into light - it's already annoying enough with shaman - and i think this would be a bit to much - she already has a nice kit.

Her stamina management is well balanced - she can throw out many actions.
"To Strong" doesn't mean only dmg vise - but ok let's answer your question.
Since her average dmg output is pretty slow, she needs something to compensate - therefor she has some sick combos.
Also her stamina management helps to throw out many actions to outplay enemies - the only one who tops her stamina management is Glad and Centurion.
I mean, sure i wouldn't say no to less stamina consumption, but it is already not bad.

She has many other benefits, the problem is, most player who complain about her state those benefits as weak and useless :'D

S0Mi_xD
02-06-2018, 02:04 AM
1, 2, 4 would be fine if only on her headbutt, and 8 i'm fine with.
she should also lose the getting GBed for free on blocked dash attacks.

OK - with dmg on her charged headbutt i could agree
Since, the headbutt itself brings out her 60+ dmg combo even if the enemy isn't OOS ... i don't know but maybe.

Knight_Raime
02-06-2018, 02:06 AM
OK - with dmg on her charged headbutt i could agree
Since, the headbutt itself brings out her 60+ dmg combo even if the enemy isn't OOS ... i don't know but maybe.

isn't she losing her 60 damage combo with the parry changes?
and yes charged headbutt I was referring to.

S0Mi_xD
02-06-2018, 02:13 AM
isn't she losing her 60 damage combo with the parry changes?
and yes charged headbutt I was referring to.

Nope - not really ^^
You get a GB from her superior block on her dodges (the sup block drains stamina as well)
You get a GB from blocking attacks in her shield stance and forward dash GB.

Both are safe. Works pretty well - i play this way with her.

Also her superior block into Shoulder Pin (the bleed attack) can be followed with a dash light = 26 bleed + 17 dmg safe
And as long the enemy bleeds you better GB instead of shoulder pin (because the bleed does not stack -.-)

Knight_Raime
02-06-2018, 02:20 AM
Nope - not really ^^
You get a GB from her superior block on her dodges (the sup block drains stamina as well)
You get a GB from blocking attacks in her shield stance and forward dash GB.

Both are safe. Works pretty well - i play this way with her.

Also her superior block into Shoulder Pin (the bleed attack) can be followed with a dash light = 26 bleed + 17 dmg safe
And as long the enemy bleeds you better GB instead of shoulder pin (because the bleed does not stack -.-)

hmm. If she keeps superior block that is. they removed it on conq. Should see if she keeps it after the season drops.

S0Mi_xD
02-06-2018, 02:27 AM
hmm. If she keeps superior block that is. they removed it on conq. Should see if she keeps it after the season drops.

I don't think it will be removed.
I undestand why they removed sup block from Conqu and i think he gets it back in a reworked way.

Also, it's not like her sup block was as OP as Conqus :D his sup block on dodges went through the full dodge animation, while Valk is more similar to assassin deflect (but still abit longer window then deflects)
Removing her sup block would be like removing berserkers deflect :D
Maybe both happens xD
I wouldn't be suprised.

Knight_Raime
02-06-2018, 02:29 AM
I don't think it will be removed.
I undestand why they removed sup block from Conqu and i think he gets it back in a reworked way.

Also, it's not like her sup block was as OP as Conqus :D his sup block on dodges went through the full dodge animation, while Valk is more similar to assassin deflect (but still abit longer window then deflects)
Removing her sup block would be like removing berserkers deflect :D
Maybe both happens xD
I wouldn't be suprised.

yeah true. he still gets it on his dodges and full block far as I know.
so she might be safe.

S0Mi_xD
02-06-2018, 02:34 AM
yeah true. he still gets it on his dodges and full block far as I know.
so she might be safe.

Oh, really? I thought they took away his dodge sup as well o.o.
He can get GBs from his dodge sup too but it's a bit harder with the timing ^^
since you need to skip the SB follow up window

I really wonder what they will do with conqu o_o
And Berserker xDD

(My mains :'D
1. Berserker
2. Valk
3. Conqu)

Knight_Raime
02-06-2018, 02:39 AM
Oh, really? I thought they took away his dodge sup as well o.o.
He can get GBs from his dodge sup too but it's a bit harder with the timing ^^
since you need to skip the SB follow up window

I really wonder what they will do with conqu o_o
And Berserker xDD

(My mains :'D
1. Berserker
2. Valk
3. Conqu)

Well I assume it's still on dodge. as when the update for it slipped through I was like 90% it still existed on dodges, full block, and then in some instance during ganks. Can't remember.
i'll double check the competitive reddit though as that is where I saw the info on when he still had it (after we discovered it being gone.)

EDIT:
Kay so I saw people saying it was still on full block and his dodges.
He also had it while being ganked. meaning on the second hit superior block would activate.
People also reported that while superior block wasn't active he could still get GB's against certain heavies/if the heavy wasn't followed up with something else.

So basically if the changes we are getting to superior block are 1:1 what we got before they fixed it...
Conq has some block stun resistance allowing him to get GB's on slow heavies/heavy finishers. basically anything that seems to have bad recovery.
and superior block still exists when taking multiple hits at once in a gank situation. On top of his dodges and full block.

Tyrjo
02-06-2018, 05:58 AM
Her dodge lights are punishable with a GB. Meanwhile Shaman has dodge heavies which are not. This does my head in. Shaman can even make her with a soft feint. It should be the other way around. Block a Shaman dodge heavy, punish with a GB. Valk can not be punished with a GB on a dodge light.