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Trenk2009
02-05-2018, 10:49 PM
1- Make the riptide strike unblockable and feinteable on a reasonable window (like the shaman one: no 50/50 here plz)

2- Make the storm rush super-armored (maybe hyper-armored but i think it would be too strong)

3- Let him link his zone at the end of any chain.

4- Let him charge his storm rush so it become unblockable and deals twice the damage.(Note: the charging time has to be longer than the average recoverys of character; I don't want this as an counter attacking move but as an opening turtle move and a hard to time wake up punish move)

5- Make it so a normal storm rush is guaranteed with a wall splat. As of right now he doesn't get anything else with a wall splat despite being a char described as "counter attacking". With the inc parry changes making gbs less prevalent, I think it would be great to give a him a big punish.

6- Let his uncharged storm rush being soft feinted into a lightning strike. Would do something similar as the raider with his heavy becoming a stunning tap; but this time on a longer ranged attack.

7- Give the storm rush tracking capability of a shaman dashed strike or the special berserker running animation, thus making it a feared weapon regardless of the distance.

ChampionRuby50g
02-05-2018, 11:01 PM
Just so you are aware, Iím fairly certain that what you called ďsuper-ArmorĒ is the same thing as hyper-armor. They are just two seperate ways of describing the same mechanic.

I canít really comment on your suggestions as Iíve never played Orochi, and find them fairly easy to beat atm. So I canít say if your changes would make him too strong or be fine. But, allowing a zone to always connect at the end of the chain is too much, and I would say that for any hero.

Trenk2009
02-05-2018, 11:20 PM
Just so you are aware, I’m fairly certain that what you called “super-Armor” is the same thing as hyper-armor. They are just two seperate ways of describing the same mechanic.

I can’t really comment on your suggestions as I’ve never played Orochi, and find them fairly easy to beat atm. So I can’t say if your changes would make him too strong or be fine. But, allowing a zone to always connect at the end of the chain is too much, and I would say that for any hero.

1- Hyepr armor is shugoki still armor (unvulnerable to melle attacks) while super armor is simply berserker armor type (unvulenrable to normal attacks) That's the way I understood it personnally.

2- MY BAD What I meant by "able to connect" is just like raider can go for a zone in the middle of his chains. Same here ! Chain would be for instance: 2xlight+Zone or 2xHeavys+Zone x) I Don't want the zone to be guarateed, just to be linkable to the end of a chain ;)

Knight_Raime
02-06-2018, 01:51 AM
A lot of your changes just sound weird.
here is my list of changes:

"~Top light double hit damage brought down by a little.
It's still going to be a staple. But with other suggestions I think it's only fair to bring their lethality down a little.

~Third light in the light>light>light combo is now a heavy and can turn into an unblockable when used from either the left or right. meaning if I double top light and then third light from say left it's now unblockable. If done in the top it's still the same. the third light would be 600ms. and feintable.
This would serve as an opener for orochi to force a reaction. But due to it being forced to come from left or right it would be some what predictable.

~Storm rush now is faster, can be canceled later, and hits harder. But it no longer guarantees top lights unless you're whiff punishing a long recovery attack/dodge.
The main issue with the alpha storm rush was on top of being super fast and very cancelable it was easily performed. this is no longer the case. Making it a strong tool for punishing and viable for attempting to initiate an attack seems fair especially if it doesn't give free damage in most cases anymore.

~Storm rush can be soft canceled into either dodge attack or his forward dash attack. When soft canceling from this form his dodge animations are slightly faster.
This is mainly to help storm rush be a better fight starter. Since the dodge animation still has to play out even in the soft cancel people should be able to react to it eventually.

~Riptide strike now has proper dodge frames like hidden stance. and can be held to delay the attack for more damage. if held long enough it can go unblockable and it is feintable.
Again another change aimed at making his counter options have a reason to be used. the potential for it being unblockable also gives another way to potentially get in on someone by forcing a reaction."

Playing_Mantis
02-06-2018, 08:00 AM
well, lets not get carried away here.. lets start with not nerving the top light to 22 damage. i like the orochi moves unlike some people..few tweaks here and there like riptide should actually dodge back further to make the move viable. id like to see the 32 to 22 nerf just not hit so hard. 22 is like 30% nerf almost. i think 25-27 would be much more realistic. then just faster side attacks, even if the fps is nerved on them id be fine with that. your ideas are rad..but the devs really won't touch the orochi so just get used to it being low tier champ only, not going to be able to beat high tier heroes like the shaman ever. pretty much all the orochi moves the shaman has same or similar with way better overall options. go play shaman until or if orochi ever gets fixed. feels bad.

Vakris_One
02-06-2018, 05:24 PM
1- Make the riptide strike unblockable and feinteable on a reasonable window (like the shaman one: no 50/50 here plz)
I'd have no problem with this. Maybe require him to hold it for a milisecond in order to get the unblockable quality or just let it rip and go without unblockable. It would make it a good mind game to mess with parry and dodge timings.



2- Make the storm rush super-armored (maybe hyper-armored but i think it would be too strong)
No. Stormrush doesn't need hyper armour. It guarrantees a double top light if it hits which is very strong already, especialy in team fights. What Knight Raime suggests is better, i.e. make it faster and soft feintable into dodge attacks.



3- Let him link his zone at the end of any chain.
No. There's no point to do this. Orochi can already throw out his zone very quickly on the back of a double top light anyway. Comboing into a zone is not needed in this game at all.



4- Let him charge his storm rush so it become unblockable and deals twice the damage.(Note: the charging time has to be longer than the average recoverys of character; I don't want this as an counter attacking move but as an opening turtle move and a hard to time wake up punish move)
It would be too strong if you do this, especially in team fights. Keep in mind this move if successful lets you land his double top light as guarranteed. Making storm rush faster and soft feintable into dodge strikes is the better way to go.



5- Make it so a normal storm rush is guaranteed with a wall splat. As of right now he doesn't get anything else with a wall splat despite being a char described as "counter attacking". With the inc parry changes making gbs less prevalent, I think it would be great to give a him a big punish.
Not necessary in my opinion. Perhaps make (a non-charged) Riptide guarranteed after a wall splat but I'm not convinced the Orochi needs a super strong wall splat punish, he's never been a character that needs or relies on wall splats.



7- Give the storm rush tracking capability of a shaman dashed strike or the special berserker running animation, thus making it a feared weapon regardless of the distance.
Not necessary. It already has good tracking, I've literally never missed someone with it.

mrmistark
02-06-2018, 07:38 PM
1- Make the riptide strike unblockable and feinteable on a reasonable window (like the shaman one: no 50/50 here plz)

2- Make the storm rush super-armored (maybe hyper-armored but i think it would be too strong)

3- Let him link his zone at the end of any chain.

4- Let him charge his storm rush so it become unblockable and deals twice the damage.(Note: the charging time has to be longer than the average recoverys of character; I don't want this as an counter attacking move but as an opening turtle move and a hard to time wake up punish move)

5- Make it so a normal storm rush is guaranteed with a wall splat. As of right now he doesn't get anything else with a wall splat despite being a char described as "counter attacking". With the inc parry changes making gbs less prevalent, I think it would be great to give a him a big punish.

6- Let his uncharged storm rush being soft feinted into a lightning strike. Would do something similar as the raider with his heavy becoming a stunning tap; but this time on a longer ranged attack.

7- Give the storm rush tracking capability of a shaman dashed strike or the special berserker running animation, thus making it a feared weapon regardless of the distance.

1. I disagree here for a couple reasons: the first reason is that it is a counter attack. You donít need it to be UB because itís meant to be used in recovery frames against the enemy, which leads to my second point that it guarantees a double top light which is the biggest neutral punish for a wiffed attack or GB at over 60 damage and even after nerf still the top punish for over 50. It is already fientable at a very reasonable distance. Most good players let it go to close a huge distance into instant GB which works rather well.

2. For the same reason as above, I must personally disagree yet again. It is again used as a counter strike or to gain distance. I agree he needs to have many things, an opener included, but his main counter attack shouldnít be his main opening attack. It just doesnít make sense or follow his style. Also again, it guarantees double top light, so giving it HA and not allowing you to hit through it would make this move overpowered.

3. Zone is already fast, putting it at the end of the chain will do absolutely nothing that it canít do already.

4. Now this I could possibly get down with. This would make more sense, kind of like a shugoki or conq heavy. Double damage would be a bit much though. Maybe more damage for sure, but that would leave it at 60 damage which honestly is a lot, and if you propose top light still guaranteed thatís a solid no. Thatís put a miss parry or dodge at 80 damage post nerf. Iíd say 40-50 damage with no guaranteed double top light, rather he goes farther past giving him space rather than being right in the opponents face. I think honestly he just needs a new move though to be perfectly honest, because playing as orochi, sometimes you HAVE to hold this attack to get a good timing out of it, doing so would change it from a counter to an actual assault. Why make of his best moves not as useful? I think a different move all together would be better.

5. Again, I think a new move all together would be better. A character getting confirmed 50+ damage off of wall splat isnít unheard of, but just not for an assassin. I agree he needs a better POST punish move though to be able to apply pressure.

6. This I could get down with, allowing Orochi to be able to dodge out of all heavies like berserker more or less would be a good approach to his changes.

7. Again...sorry, but storm rush is SUPPOSED to be use as a counter attack and is feared for the amount of guaranteed damage it gives putting it at 50 damage post nerf.


Out of this, I agree only about the soft fients from a heavy of any kind into dodges. Sorry, I just donít think changing his main counter move (he is a counter attacker) is just not favorable.

Iíd honestly rather see a slower 35 damage plus bleed mid chain finisher like Gladiator as a new move instead of changing his current moves. Make it a good area attack too. Make so that he can be hit out of it, but be a double attack. Think of when you have a smooth side heavy into a chained side heavy on the other side: so as animation goes a slowish UB hits to one side into a backward spin guaranteed hit on other side. Start up being much like shamans UB. Allow it to be hard cancelable and soft fientable into dodge attack or normal dodge TO INCLUDE a dodge to deflect. I think he would benifit much more as it would give him:

-some mix ups: if they dodge you can GB, if they try to attack you out of it, you can dodge, deflect or dodge attack, and obviously the parry bait (which yes, will only be double top light coming up, but is a HUGE stamina drainer)

- a good area control move to help survivability against more than one opponent

-a decent follow up for walls: again I donít agree with wall splat increasing, but having such a powerful follow up after confirmed heavy would almost be more agreeable than a straight large sum damage like a wardens top heavy as you could gain potentially better damage.

- allow it to follow a wiffed attack and now you have a viable opener that is a good threat

-make debuff resistance more viable: itís not exactly the best stat right now, but the more bleed we have the more difficult the game is allowed to have as far as stat allocation. Right now the majority of stats are cut and dry. Doesnít really have much to do with orochi as a character, but still it would help nonetheless.