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View Full Version : For Honor's proper Reward System - Discussion & Suggestion



bob333e
02-05-2018, 07:06 PM
I think we can all agree we're being bottlenecked and not rewarded proper Steel and XP for our gameplay, let alone rewarded properly for individual performance in matches. Everything is over-inflated and more often than not, you feel at a great loss when you skip/miss orders. Especially given that they keep adding new content, while not altering/improving Steel gain at all.
The following is a compiled suggestive list that covers every gameplay aspect of For Honor (I think) and how it should be re-addressed from a fresh perspective; one that favors the player, and rewards individual gameplay. Most of these changes address proper Steel gain for every aspect, more fair Steel expenditures across the board, and better XP rewards where they make sense.

- Reputation leveling: We should get 1,000 Steel for each new reputation level gained. Outside of random colors, engravings and patterns (half of which are downright depressingly wrong-looking), this is the best incentive to encourage a player to level up more and more, and this cements a clear leveling goal in the player's mind. Sure, I want an outfit at rep30 for its patterns and symbols, but that's rep30. It's still far off. Give me rewards that I deserve in the meantime, simply for just playing and enjoying the game with the heroes I like using the most.

- Dominion & Skirmish: In PvP Dominion and Skirmish, Steel gain should match how much renown you've stacked. Say, you've stacked 650 renown, you'll get 650 Steel. You've stacked 1123 renown, you get 1123 Steel. This is fair and it adequately rewards the player based on personal performance. Regardless of match outcome. In PvAI you should initially be able to choose bot difficulty in PvAI when matchmaking is off. 'Casual' or 'Hardcore', with Casual setting you up with level 1 and level 2 bots, and rewarding Steel gain at half the renown gained, whereas 'Hardcore' matching you strictly with level 3 bots, and Steel gain is same as PvP, matching renown gain.

-- EDIT -- : I've been told through feedback that renown = Steel gain is a bit too much. I will dedicate more thought on how renown plays a role in end-match reward for both Dominion and Skirmish.

UPDATE ON DOMINION

For PvP Dominion, I came up with an improved suggestion concerning how you should earn Steel and XP:

The amount of objectives/captures you register count towards 50% of the added end-match XP gain, with a 33x multiplier. Half of the amount of total renown you accumulate will form the other 50%, with a 3x multiplier.

The total amount of takedowns you register count towards 50% of the Steel gain end-match, with a 25x multiplier. Half of the amount of total renown you accumulate will form the other 50%, without multipliers.

This goes as following:

- For XP: If you did 8 captures and have accumulated 600 renown, that will be 264XP on the captures (8 x 33), and 900XP on half the renown (300 x 3), netting you 1164XP end-match.

- For Steel: if you did 9 registered takedowns and have accumulated 600 renown, that will be 225 Steel on the takedowns (9 x 25), and 300 Steel on half the renown, netting you 525 Steel end-match.

For PvAI Dominion, it retains the same values as PvP Dominion if you choose 'Hardcore' when matchmaking is off (strictly level 3 bots), and it halves the values of PvP Dominion if you choose 'Casual' when matchmaking is off (level 1 and level 2 bots).

UPDATE ON SKIRMISH

For PvP Skirmish, the calculation is rather simpler than that of Dominion, and takes a bit of a different route. If your team won the round, you receive in Steel half the amount of renown you've stacked, and you receive in Salvage the same amount of renown you've stacked. If your team lost the round, you receive in Steel the amount of renown divided by 2.5, and you receive in Salvage half the amount of renown you've stacked. The same amount of XP gain calculation is retained as-is in the current ongoing system. This goes as the following:

- If your team won and you accumulated 650 renown: You get 325 Steel (650/2) and 650 Salvage.
- If your team lost and you accumulated 650 renown: You get 260 Steel (650/2.5) and 325 Salvage (650/2).
- Whether your team won or lost: Same XP gain as the current ongoing system.

For PvAI Skirmish with matchmaking set to off, it halves the values as PvP Skirmish for Steel and Salvage if you choose 'Hardcore' (strictly level 3 bots) and your team won the match, and it divides those values by 3 if you choose 'Casual' when matchmaking is off (level 1 and level 2 bots) and your team won. Upon choosing 'Hardcore' and your team lost, it divides the values of PvP Skirmish by 3. Upon choosing 'Casual' and your team lost, it divides the values of PvP Skirmish by 4. This goes as the following:

- Hardcore setting, your team won and you accumulated 650 renown: You get 325 (650/2) Steel and 325 (650/2) Salvage.
- Hardcore setting, your team lost and you accumulated 650 renown: You get 216 (650/3) Steel and 216 (650/3) Salvage.
- Casual setting, your team won and you accumulated 650 renown: You get 216 (650/3) Steel and 216 (650/3) Salvage..
- Casual setting, your team lost and you accumulated 650 renown: You get 162 (650/4) Steel and 162 (650/4) Salvage.
- Any setting, whether your team won or lost: Same XP gain as the current ongoing system.

What this does is specialize Skirmish as an ideal mode where you can farm Salvage, should you need a bigger Salvage pool, while still not bottlenecking your Steel gain, and adequately rewarding you for your personal performance. This also complements the newly added XP Boost mechanic as of Season 5. Should you need to purchase a lot of XP Boosts with Salvage, you're gonna need to farm Salvage for that. It's only logical, and reasonable, to have a mode where you can farm Salvage while XP gain remains somewhat sub-par, but in exchange you can buy XP Boosts with the accumulated Salvage, should you not need to upgrade or Change Look a lot of times.

- Duels, Brawls, & Eliminations: For Duels, Steel gain should be like 100ish if you won, and half of that if you lost, for both PvP and PvAI. For Brawls it should be 1.2x the amount of Steel gained in Duels, full amount if your team won, half if your team lost. For Eliminations it should be 1.5x the amount of Steel gained in won Duels (that's 200ish Steel) regardless of match outcome.

- Dance of Death: Dance of Death Brawls should reward Steel based on the number of registered takedowns (both 1v1s and kill assists) per match. 50 Steel per takedown. Executions do not increase Steel gain.

- Tribute: For Tribute, it should be based on how much teamwork you've done. Calculating renown, takedowns, claims, and blocks all at once. Each having a percentage in the calculation.

- Community event orders: They should happen once a month and be hard enough to span a week, and reward 5,000 Steel if the target is reached.

- Double XP weekends: They should happen at every new season release (meaning it should happen on Feb 16th with the coming of S5), and during every special event (like the Frost Wind Festival and Halloween), and should happen on the official launch of the dedicated servers.

- Season rewards: First place 20,000 Steel, second place 10,000 Steel, third place 5,000 Steel. A season is 4 months long. We can 'farm' 20,000 Steel in like 3.5 weeks. I don't see why we shouldn't be rewarded 20,000 Steel for winning 1st place after 4 months of constant banner-planting and troop-deploying. Season rewards should also include 'special' crates that can only be obtained if you place 1st or 2nd, with 1st place netting you 3 special crates, and 2nd place netting you one. These special crates reward XP on whichever character you choose. Like, one special crate holds 2,500XP.

- Faction Loyalty Bonus. Throughout a season, if you remained true to your Faction and never switched, you get added bonuses when the season ends, after 4 months. 10,000 Steel, two special crates, and 5,000 Salvage. This reward stacks with the season rewards if your Faction won 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place. You also get a troop deployment boost for the first campaign of the next season.

- Scavenger crates: They should include some Steel and some Salvage, along with the loot, when you open them. Range of 25-200 Steel and range of 100-500 Salvage, depending on character tier.
Common Tier: 25 Steel, 100 Salvage
Rare Tier: 50 Steel, 200 Salvage
Heroic Tier: 100 Steel, 300 Salvage
Epic Tier: 150 Steel, 400 Salvage
Legendary Tier: 200 Steel, 500 Salvage

- Change Look: Should cost between 10 and 50 Steel depending on gear tier, and between 150 and 1000 Salvage depending on gear tier.
Common Tier: 10 Steel, 150 Salvage
Rare Tier: 20 Steel, 250 Salvage
Heroic Tier: 30 Steel, 500 Salvage
Epic Tier: 40 Steel, 750 Salvage
Legendary Tier: 50 Steel, 1000 Salvage

- Gear upgrades: Should cost between 50 and 250 Steel per level depending on gear tier, and between 100 and 500 Salvage per level depending on gear tier.
Common Tier: 50 Steel and 100 Salvage per level
Rare Tier: 100 Steel and 200 Salvage per level
Heroic Tier: 150 Steel and 300 Salvage per level
Epic Tier: 200 Steel and 400 Salvage per level
Legendary Tier: 250 Steel and 500 Salvage per level

- Star weapons: Weapon pieces that have a star icon (extremely rare) cost a bit more Steel and Salvage to upgrade, but Change Look cost remains constant.

- Refine Gear: The new 'Refine Gear' option coming in S5 should cost 750 Steel and 750 Salvage on armor pieces, and 1,000 Steel and 1,000 Salvage on weapon pieces. Refinement nets a +1% boost across the board on any positive stat, and a +3% improvement on any negative stat. If you wield a fully refined weapon (3 pieces), you may equip a weapon effect. If you wear fully refined armor (3 pieces), you may choose a faint, non-intrusive 'aura' which remains active even during movement and combat. This aura follows the same pattern as whichever effect you have equipped under "idle". This aura also can be augmented based on your rank (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond).

- Ranked Duel Tournament: Steel gain per each match is same as normal duels (listed above). 1st place nets you an additional 3,000 Steel. 2nd place nets you an additional 1,500 Steel.

- Ranked Tribute: I don't know yet. It's still a failed concept as-is. But it should certainly reward more than normal Tribute.

- Emotes, Executions, & Effects: All emotes should be locked at 5,000 Steel each, all executions at 7,000 Steel each, and all effects at 5,000 Steel each.

- Mythic & Mask Outfits: Considering all of the above, Mythic Outfits are 20,000 Steel each, and Mask Outfits are 30,000 Steel each. To retain their sense of importance and rarity, and not be that easily farmed for. Mask Outfits get discounted at 20,000 Steel for a brief period during respective special events. Mythic Outfits get discounted at 15,000 Steel at Ubisoft's discretion, whenever they decide to discount Mythic Outfits, like they did in the Dance of Death event.

- DLC Cast: Considering all the above changes, DLC heroes are 30,000 Steel each, if you don't own the Season Pass. They should remain somewhat pricey. Season Pass is another matter and is (and should be) the company's right to ask for more $, outside of the game's full retail price. And there is no single hero/item/outfit/thing worth more than 30,000 Steel in the entire game.

Now that, is a reward system that I, and I'm sure most of the playerbase, would be happy with, without the devs having to overhaul the entire framework around which For Honor has been built (F2P MMO bottleneck model dominated by RNG and infested with microtransactions, where they keep adding more content that costs Steel while not modifying Steel gain at all).

Would love to hear feedback and thoughts. And thanks for reading.

Alustar.
02-06-2018, 01:05 AM
I really don't think we are bottle necked that badly. The problem is that most players who don't venture out to learn new heroes to effectively compete all orders are never going to get the gains. Top help give an example, I play almost exclusively assassin characters. I have the season pass so I didn't have to worry about characters and could focus on pretty outfits. I barely collect steel in excess of 10k unless I'm specifically working for it.
My close friend however plays all class types and is very rarely without uncompleted orders. About a week ago he purchased shaman to learn her move set, about two days ago he had 14k and some change and decided up but an outfit for berserker at 7k without batting an eye because he knew he would have that back in less than a week.

I really don't think we need rewards for anything outside of match performance. I wouldn't mind the from match gains being increased to help nudge up the players who don't dip into every class, but outside that I think the rewards we get from orders are enough.
Maybe add more diverse options, other than the standard ones we have.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 01:32 AM
I really don't think we are bottle necked that badly. The problem is that most players who don't venture out to learn new heroes to effectively compete all orders are never going to get the gains. Top help give an example, I play almost exclusively assassin characters. I have the season pass so I didn't have to worry about characters and could focus on pretty outfits. I barely collect steel in excess of 10k unless I'm specifically working for it.
My close friend however plays all class types and is very rarely without uncompleted orders. About a week ago he purchased shaman to learn her move set, about two days ago he had 14k and some change and decided up but an outfit for berserker at 7k without batting an eye because he knew he would have that back in less than a week.

I really don't think we need rewards for anything outside of match performance. I wouldn't mind the from match gains being increased to help nudge up the players who don't dip into every class, but outside that I think the rewards we get from orders are enough.
Maybe add more diverse options, other than the standard ones we have.

Thank you for your input.

I play daily for like 3 hours and never miss a single order, I play any hero I have to, to complete all orders (except the one that requires co-op, which I cannot, as I play solo). I don't care which hero I must play so long as I earn all the Steel gain from all the orders combined.

Even then, I barely save up 9K-10K a week, that's if I never did any Change Look or gear upgrade. And considering the influx of weekly content, you're pretty much set for something new every week. If you have a backlog checklist to clear, such as mine (I started For Honor early November, so you can guess how much stuff I have on my checklist), then all the additional weekly and seasonal content become a drag and an added unfair grind just so you can catch up with the newest released stuff.

It doesn't stop there. As you learn more than one hero, and want to diversify and rep up several heroes, you'd naturally want to take care of their looks and gear. Keep in mind my aforementioned checklist is solely for my main (Warden), I haven't been buying anything for any other hero, save for an ornament for Valkyrie because it looked better than the default horns. And so far I've spent somewhere around 80K Steel ever since I started playing, 98% of it being just on Warden, between outfits, ornaments, effects, executions, emotes, Change Look, and gear upgrades.

80K of daily grinding for 3 months in a row now, and I'm not even done with one hero. How is this fair? of course not looking to buy everything, many of his stuff suck anyway and are downright ugly, I'm just acquiring the best there is. I still have a few effects, two Mythic Outfits, and the Tundra Gryphon Outfit. That's around 65K left to clear.

I know 10 bucks sounds like a snack's value if I ever decide to throw 10 bucks at buying some Steel to help myself out, but I despise and boycott microtransactions with a deep, intense hatred. It makes no sense at all that I have to grind daily for 3 months, and also throw 10-20 additional bucks, to finally unlock the stuff I desire on one hero (keep in mind I'm customizing all three loadouts, each having different effects and outfits). Should I miss one order, that's at least 800 wasted Steel and 500-750 wasted XP, which is the equivalent of 10 hours straight of gameplay (!!!!!!)

I also never was able to afford a Champion Status. I only have Champion Status from compensations and Open Test rewards. I have a checklist to clear, can't afford to throw Steel on Champion Status.

This system downright sucks and we deserve a lot more than this. There is no player progression at all. It's a forced grinding and you're severely punished when you miss orders because of irl circumstances.

BlowHard74728
02-06-2018, 01:54 AM
I really do like these ideas especially the dominion mode one. Playing a 20 min match for 50 steel is rather ridiculous. 40 min of game and you get 100 steal in all yeah no i dont agree with this. Unfortunately i dont think anything will be done with this. They probably make too much money with people buying steel to actually raise rewards. I also like the idea of the faction war steel rewards but instead would say maybe 15,000 for 1st and 5,000 for 2nd and maybe 0 for 3rd that way its more of an encouragement to drop some troops and participate in the war. But like i said i love the more end match reward ideas so far the rewards are kind of meaningless

ChampionRuby50g
02-06-2018, 01:56 AM
Youíre right Fady. We are deserving of a more fair treatment in terms of steel and XP gain. I personally really like your list, but I also think that for Dominion and Skirmish your renown should not be the Steel you earn. It isnít fair on the new players and players who are less than average who will now be inherently earning less steel than everyone else just because they arenít good or experienced players. Knowing how little steel you are getting compared to the rest of your team will surely leave a sour taste in their mouths. In saying that, I do think that renown from in game should contribute in someway to your end of game steel rewards. Playing well does deserve better rewards, but not to the extent where you get 1000 steel a game.

BlowHard74728
02-06-2018, 02:00 AM
Youíre right Fady. We are deserving of a more fair treatment in terms of steel and XP gain. I personally really like your list, but I also think that for Dominion and Skirmish your renown should not be the Steel you earn. It isnít fair on the new players and players who are less than average who will now be inherently earning less steel than everyone else just because they arenít good or experienced players. Knowing how little steel you are getting compared to the rest of your team will surely leave a sour taste in their mouths. In saying that, I do think that renown from in game should contribute in someway to your end of game steel rewards. Playing well does deserve better rewards, but not to the extent where you get 1000 steel a game.

True about them getting less then the rest of the team would suck but itd be a hell of a lot better then just 50 steel. But if not the amount of renown being transformed to steel then something else could hopefully be done.
Maybe 500 if you win and 150-100 if your team lost

bob333e
02-06-2018, 02:06 AM
I really do like these ideas especially the dominion mode one.

Hey, thanks for hopping in!


Playing a 20 min match for 50 steel is rather ridiculous. 40 min of game and you get 100 steal in all yeah no i dont agree with this. Unfortunately i dont think anything will be done with this. They probably make too much money with people buying steel to actually raise rewards.

I know. And this thread will likely go ignored by the representatives. Just like my dedicated servers launch Steel giveaway thread got ignored, in Suggestions & Feedback. Still, it's worth to take it off my chest and see whether others share the same stand as mine concerning this issue.


I also like the idea of the faction war steel rewards but instead would say maybe 15,000 for 1st and 5,000 for 2nd and maybe 0 for 3rd that way its more of an encouragement to drop some troops and participate in the war.

Well a season is 4 months long. Throughout 4 months, you can farm hella on your own, without even the existence of Faction War. What's the point of Faction War? if it doesn't give us really nice and shiny rewards just for participating in it, why even participate in it, what's the incentive? As it is, the rewards are a joke, and Factions get mixed up in matches, instead of matching Faction members with each other, against other Factions, like the Faction War should be. Faction War is completely detached from your gameplay, save for when you complete a match, earn some troops, and deploy them somewhere. Giving rewards for each position is bound to encourage participation on a wide spectrum, instead of "oh Vikings are gonna win this one, no point deploying more troops, my Faction won't make it 1st place anyway".


You’re right Fady. We are deserving of a more fair treatment in terms of steel and XP gain. I personally really like your list, but I also think that for Dominion and Skirmish your renown should not be the Steel you earn. It isn’t fair on the new players and players who are less than average who will now be inherently earning less steel than everyone else just because they aren’t good or experienced players. Knowing how little steel you are getting compared to the rest of your team will surely leave a sour taste in their mouths. In saying that, I do think that renown from in game should contribute in someway to your end of game steel rewards. Playing well does deserve better rewards, but not to the extent where you get 1000 steel a game.

Thanks for your feedback! you have a point, but this is the matchmaker's problem, not ours. The matchmaker shouldn't match low-level players against veterans. This would cause all sorts of problems, not just in terms of end-match rewards. I also thought, since renown = Steel gain, it would encourage everyone to actively participate in everything in a given Dominion / Skirmish (zones, takedowns, revives, assists, executions, honorable kills...) instead of people camping at safety, or people attempting AFK for free XP and Steel, etc. I just thought it would hit 2 birds in 1 cage.

If someone got 490 renown and his teammate got like 540 renown, it's not a big difference by any means. The real gaps would be if someone got like 200 renown and his teammate got like 970 renown, but again, maybe the 970 guy is just a much better player, and he should be rewarded accordingly. Also, constantly hitting 1000 renown on each Dominion and Skirmish is hard af. For me anyway. I imagine most good players stay in the 500-750 range on average. 1000+ is hard.

BlowHard74728
02-06-2018, 02:13 AM
I believe one of there biggest problems with people participating more often with the faction war is lack of incentive and steel rewards could truly push up the percentage of players that are going to compete in the faction war. And i agree it would push people to fight the war to the end instead of just handing the champion title over to the lead faction.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 02:19 AM
Yup. exactly my thoughts. Everyone's a 'winner', there are no penalties. You only need to participate. Faction War isn't even the core gameplay of For Honor, so at the very least it should be a pleasant experience all around, not a chore, not a punishment, not a grind. And for the excuse to span 4 months per season, it should compensate people for keeping them engaged for 4 entire months, deploying troops and whatnot.

Aidames
02-06-2018, 07:48 PM
Yup. exactly my thoughts. Everyone's a 'winner', there are no penalties. You only need to participate. Faction War isn't even the core gameplay of For Honor, so at the very least it should be a pleasant experience all around, not a chore, not a punishment, not a grind.

While I do agree that increased Steel rewards would be most welcome and most of what you suggest makes perfect sense, I do not understand this last post. In what way is Faction War a "punishment"? There really are no losers, everybody gets rewards. Even if you don't look at the war map all season long, you'll still get some extra Steel. The only point where this is problematic is where the "ignorant" player gets just as much Steel as the one who faithfully deployed troops for 4 months. That definitely should change, but that's not a punishment, it's simply a lack of a merit-based reward system.

As a side-thought, I really think they should give us a separate window where we can deploy the Troops we've collected so far. There are so many things crammed into that 30 second in-between-matches window that it's really frustrating, at least for me. I have 30 seconds to:
- Look through my loot/earned colors/symbols, see if there's anything that's better (I also like to look at the "XP up" animations, but that's just me)
- Deploy troops in a way that's meaningful
- Vote for the new map
- Ready up

I never vote for a map because I never have time. Oftentimes I hastily deploy my troops just so they wouldn't be auto-distributed. Really, I think we should just have a separate screen on the actual war map (outside of queues) where you can deploy all the Troops you have collected during your login session.

But I heavily digress, I apologize.

The_B0G_
02-06-2018, 08:04 PM
I think the idea for Dom is too much, the devs would never go for that. Most of the others seem pretty fair.

I like the idea for Faction war, I made a suggestion like that after the last faction war finished, I think I said 1st-10k 2nd-8k and 3rd-5k, crates are useless, no one cares about them, the devs said in the stream that once Vikings clinched the win everyone basically stopped playing, and that's because no one cares about the rewards for 2nd and 3rd place so this idea would help people stay interested until the end as well.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 08:08 PM
But I heavily digress, I apologize.

No need. You brought up a valid point, and thanks for hopping on here, I appreciate the feedback.


While I do agree that increased Steel rewards would be most welcome and most of what you suggest makes perfect sense, I do not understand this last post. In what way is Faction War a "punishment"? There really are no losers, everybody gets rewards. Even if you don't look at the war map all season long, you'll still get some extra Steel. The only point where this is problematic is where the "ignorant" player gets just as much Steel as the one who faithfully deployed troops for 4 months. That definitely should change, but that's not a punishment, it's simply a lack of a merit-based reward system.

As a side-thought, I really think they should give us a separate window where we can deploy the Troops we've collected so far. There are so many things crammed into that 30 second in-between-matches window that it's really frustrating, at least for me. I have 30 seconds to:
- Look through my loot/earned colors/symbols, see if there's anything that's better (I also like to look at the "XP up" animations, but that's just me)
- Deploy troops in a way that's meaningful
- Vote for the new map
- Ready up

I never vote for a map because I never have time. Oftentimes I hastily deploy my troops just so they wouldn't be auto-distributed. Really, I think we should just have a separate screen on the actual war map (outside of queues) where you can deploy all the Troops you have collected during your login session.

The actual punishment, in the current awful reward distribution in Faction War, is whether you get 1st place or 2nd place or 3rd place. You want that ornament? too bad, you're gonna have to be 1st place to get it. You want those cool symbols/tattoos? you gotta be 2nd place.

It's these differentiation rewards that make for an awfully sour taste in which position your Faction will finish a season. My idea above was a normalized reward system across all three positions, in simply being incremental increase in Steel and XP rewards depending on position. If you want a specific season-related ornament, you should be able to acquire it under circumstances you can control, not Faction War. Faction War is a complete mess of statistics, numbers, and rough population estimates. If many from your Faction aren't planting banners or manually deploying troops to take territories, well too bad for you, you won't get that 1st place ornament, accept the loss. See what I mean?

If you should be unable to acquire a season-specific ornament, it should be solely up to your own responsibility; not being accounted for by the large chunk of players randomly distributing troops and half-arsedly participating in Faction War. That, is unfair.

Steel and XP rewards, along with maybe emblem outlines, are much more logical. All that's required for you to get those rewards, is simply deploy troops manually a few times. No matter which position your Faction wins, you still get Steel. It's a nice side thing which 'thanks' you for participating by offering you a marginal amount of Steel after 4 months.

I agree that Faction War needs to be its own separate thing, away from the intermission screen. The intermission screen is already too cramped. No room for tactical warfare troop deployment.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 08:10 PM
I think the idea for Dom is too much, the devs would never go for that. Most of the others seem pretty fair.

I like the idea for Faction war, I made a suggestion like that after the last faction war finished, I think I said 1st-10k 2nd-8k and 3rd-5k, crates are useless, no one cares about them, the devs said in the stream that once Vikings clinched the win everyone basically stopped playing, and that's because no one cares about the rewards for 2nd and 3rd place so this idea would help people stay interested until the end as well.

Hey, thanks for hopping on here! Appreciate it.

Yeah renown = Steel gain might sound like it's too much; I should probably put a bit more thought in how renown plays a reward percentage for Dominion.

Scavenger crates, as they currently are, are an absolute joke. And yes: with the current Faction War, everyone wants to be 1st place. Even 2nd place is a no-go. On top of, you cannot see what rewards await you, after 4 months. It just breaks the entirety of Faction War.

The_B0G_
02-06-2018, 08:18 PM
Hey, thanks for hopping on here! Appreciate it.

Yeah renown = Steel gain might sound like it's too much; I should probably put a bit more thought in how renown plays a reward percentage for Dominion.

Scavenger crates, as they currently are, are an absolute joke. And yes: with the current Faction War, everyone wants to be 1st place. Even 2nd place is a no-go. On top of, you cannot see what rewards await you, after 4 months. It just breaks the entirety of Faction War.

Like I said in the other thread, I think at the very least they should double the amounts of steel earned on every mode for the winner of that match. The loser gets what we are currently rewarded. A bigger XP bonus towards character progression would be nice for the winning team as well. I don't even notice a difference in winning or losing progression wise right now.

It reminds me how sports are going for kids now, everyone gets a medal even if they come in 10th place, you shouldn't be rewarded equally for losing a match.

BTTrinity
02-06-2018, 08:19 PM
I really like these ideas. I always felt like everything in the shop was overpriced, so Id love to see an overhaul like this happen to the reward system.

Cliff_001
02-06-2018, 08:26 PM
I think steel and xp gains are relatively fine but there could be a couple at tweeks that could be benificial like some of the ideas you brought up. I've been playing since launch and I've got 4 executions on all heroes and a good amount of emotes too but I don't care for effects so that could be saving me lots of steel. But I can see if someone relatively new to the game could find it overwhelming(not talking or trying to insult you if that could relate to anyone) I just think there are more important things to worry about than this. Although it does seem like ubi does everything possible not to reward more steel like the salvage change only going for xp.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 08:26 PM
Like I said in the other thread, I think at the very least they should double the amounts of steel earned on every mode for the winner of that match. The loser gets what we are currently rewarded. A bigger XP bonus towards character progression would be nice for the winning team as well. I don't even notice a difference in winning or losing progression wise right now.

It reminds me how sports are going for kids now, everyone gets a medal even if they come in 10th place, you shouldn't be rewarded equally for losing a match.

Indeed; most of my points address this. Reward the player purely based on individual player performance. They played well, reward them more. They played half-arsedly, reward them less. Rules depend on modes. And the threshold for Steel and XP gain should be at least tripled for Steel and doubled for XP in every mode.


I really like these ideas. I always felt like everything in the shop was overpriced, so Id love to see an overhaul like this happen to the reward system.

Thanks for checking out my thread, mate! and I know, right? here's hoping it gets some spotlight. Why oh why am I not working with Ubisoft already, on the For Honor team.... I should prolly go fill an application.

Oh no wait, that application is 35,000 Steel, and if you want your name to show on top, you gotta Refine Paper for an additional 15,000 Steel.
is EA reading this?


I think steel and xp gains are relatively fine but there could be a couple at tweeks that could be benificial like some of the ideas you brought up. I've been playing since launch and I've got 4 executions on all heroes and a good amount of emotes too but I don't care for effects so that could be saving me lots of steel. But I can see if someone relatively new to the game could find it overwhelming(not talking or trying to insult you if that could relate to anyone) I just think there are more important things to worry about than this. Although it does seem like ubi does everything possible not to reward more steel like the salvage change only going for xp.

Thanks for reading. Indeed, you said it yourself: they're hell-bent on not rewarding you, to 'tempt' you into spending more money, and 'encourage' you to play every day.

I myself don't care for a lot of those effects and silly stuff they've added, like sport emotes. I do, however, care about colors, patterns, engravings, and some ornaments. And only a few effects. And I resort to a lot of Change Look. And upon achieving final gear look, I go max my gear. Unfortunately, all of this costs a fortune. On just one hero. Purely because you're not being rewarded for playing their game and doing matches.

BTTrinity
02-06-2018, 08:55 PM
Thanks for checking out my thread, mate! and I know, right? here's hoping it gets some spotlight. Why oh why am I not working with Ubisoft already, on the For Honor team.... I should prolly go fill an application.

Oh no wait, that application is 35,000 Steel, and if you want your name to show on top, you gotta Refine Paper for an additional 15,000 Steel.
is EA reading this?

Np, a quality post from you is worth the read, as always.

LUL, the blueprint to refine paper also has a 0.5% chance to drop from a lootbox.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 09:12 PM
Np, a quality post from you is worth the read, as always.

LUL, the blueprint to refine paper also has a 0.5% chance to drop from a lootbox.

Much obliged! Thank you. I try my best to throw the best of my ideas on here.

Blueprint has 0.5% drop rate only during the Need More Data Event. After that, you're gonna have to buy the bundle at 50,000 Steel to get it.

BTTrinity
02-06-2018, 09:48 PM
Much obliged! Thank you. I try my best to throw the best of my ideas on here.

Blueprint has 0.5% drop rate only during the Need More Data Event. After that, you're gonna have to buy the bundle at 50,000 Steel to get it.

You do a good job.

Sounds like Ubi Marketing Tactics. (with a dash of EA)

TheTool85
02-06-2018, 10:11 PM
Well, personally i think finding a proper way to 'balance' steel rewards for each and every game mode and your personal performance in said match would be a bit difficult to implement in this game.
I really think it would be more effective to make colours, emotes effects even outfits constantly lootable out of every game mode, just like they did in the first few days when new mask outfits were released.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 10:24 PM
Well, personally i think finding a proper way to 'balance' steel rewards for each and every game mode and your personal performance in said match would be a bit difficult to implement in this game.
I really think it would be more effective to make colours, emotes effects even outfits constantly lootable out of every game mode, just like they did in the first few days when new mask outfits were released.

Hey, welcome to the thread, and thanks for reading.

Have to disagree: making all effects, emotes, colors and outfits lootable is bound to gray out any differences in reputation level visual distinction. Your rep2 Zerker would look the same as a rep40 Zerker. Not good.

Those effects and outfits they made lootable in the Frost Wind Event in December, were event-specific loots (at low drop rate) which, after said event, are no longer lootable and thus are priced at 35,000 Steel in bundles. Event-specific items are different than the everyday in-game items which you work hard for to level up and unlock them.

Event-specific loot should only be looted during an event, but the issue here is, they purposefully block their drop rate and force you to grind forever to unlock them; on top of the entire loot system is dominated by RNG. Should you give up, or miss out on the event, then oh sorry but you have to shell out 35,000 Steel if you want them. This is a different problem than the reward system which I'm talking about, but it's related in a way. Because it pushes the microtransaction campaign.

Rebalancing the reward system is tough indeed. It's only tough because, they are unwilling to do it. Because it will hurt their microtransaction campaign.

TheTool85
02-06-2018, 10:41 PM
Hey, welcome to the thread, and thanks for reading.

Have to disagree: making all effects, emotes, colors and outfits lootable is bound to gray out any differences in reputation level visual distinction. Your rep2 Zerker would look the same as a rep40 Zerker. Not good.



Thanks for your reply.

I agree with the point you make here. But that is related to colours and Reputation outfits only. As far as i know the rest of the outfit rooster, emotes and effects aren't locked behind a rep lvl. But i maby could be wrong here. Sorry for my poor knowledge bout this game by the way :)

And yes, i know how the event loot system worked for these special outfits. And i have to repeat: i liked it this way. So why not make it permanent for all the other stuff? That would make any steel reward discussion obsolete.

EDIT: microtransactions would be still a case. As for all those which can't afford the time to grind. Maby EVEN ubi could see this :)

bob333e
02-06-2018, 10:53 PM
Thanks for your reply.

I agree with the point you make here. But that is related to colours and Reputation outfits only. As far as i know the rest of the outfit rooster, emotes and effects aren't locked behind a rep lvl. But i maby could be wrong here. Sorry for my poor knowledge bout this game by the way :)

And yes, i know how the event loot system worked for these special outfits. And i have to repeat: i liked it this way. So why not make it permanent for all the other stuff? That would make any steel reward discussion obsolete.

EDIT: microtransactions would be still a case. As for all those which can't afford the time to grind. Maby EVEN ubi could see this :)

No problem!

Reputation unlocks are fine as they are, seeing as you unlock better visuals the higher you go; this is logical.

Concerning emotes:

Emotes help in individual characterization of a hero. It speaks of emotion and character and attitude. It's an important part in building and customizing your own hero by choosing emotes. If emotes were random loot, they would lose their purpose and importance in this matter. The same goes for executions.

It's fair to have emotes locked at 5,000 Steel and executions locked at 7,000 Steel (locked means no higher and no lower; just as-is, no matter if new or old emote/execution). Currently some emotes are at 7,000 Steel and some executions are at 5,000 Steel, which jumbles values and suggests a rather poorly managed way of distributing Steel expenditures.

Concerning the event outfits: it was a Battle Outfit, named 'Shattered Ice', in the Frost Wind Festival in December. By-and-large, Battle Outfits do not even compare to Mythic or Mask Outfits, which look leagues better, usually.

Events do not give lootable emotes, but they give lootable effects. However these lootable effects still look 'eh'. They're not wow, they're just barely satisfactory; because it's free stuff. If you want the really good stuff, they're locked behind Mythic and Mask Outfits.

Mythic and Mask Outfits should retain a comparatively high Steel cost, to retain their importance when you finally buy/unlock them. The problem isn't their price; the problem is that you aren't given any good, fair amount of Steel when you play.

Of course microtransactions will still exist with season passes and DLCs. But that should be the only instance where you find microtransactions. And this is the only fair instance, where extra money is for DLC. It's a fair trade. It's common across most game developers today.

No need to apologise for anything, you brought up a valid concern, and I'm always happy to discuss it and clear any misunderstanding. ^^

TheTool85
02-06-2018, 11:31 PM
I understand your point.
Again , there is no need to describe me how the event works. Rep 40 raider beta player here. I don't know as much as you about the game, but you don't have to start at zero :) but thanks anyway that you take the time to !

Me for myself, i like to unlock each and everything for my main. Even if i dislike this or that certain emote, effect at first sight.
Thats why i'm trying to bring forward the perma loot idea.

You're a warden main, right? And you are rightfully talking about higher steel rewards for playing the game modes in here.
But what do you need more steel for, if not for the pure possibility of unlocking stuff? And i think you could safe a good amount of steel, if everything would be lootable. Even i a low percentage.

bob333e
02-06-2018, 11:51 PM
I understand your point.
Again , there is no need to describe me how the event works. Rep 40 raider beta player here. I don't know as much as you about the game, but you don't have to start at zero :) but thanks anyway that you take the time to !

Me for myself, i like to unlock each and everything for my main. Even if i dislike this or that certain emote, effect at first sight.
Thats why i'm trying to bring forward the perma loot idea.

You're a warden main, right? And you are rightfully talking about higher steel rewards for playing the game modes in here.
But what do you need more steel for, if not for the pure possibility of unlocking stuff? And i think you could safe a good amount of steel, if everything would be lootable. Even i a low percentage.

Ah, apologies, I wasn't even here during the betas.

Correct, Warden main at rep26 and counting. Overall rep is 35.

Steel can be used for:

- Change Look
- Gear upgrades
- Combat emotes
- Idle emotes
- Idle effects
- Emote effects
- Execution effects
- Executions
- Battle outfits
- Elite outfits
- Mythic outfits
- Mask outfits
- Ornaments
- Buying scavenger crates
- Buying seasonal / event bundles
- Buying Champion Status
- Buying DLC heroes if you don't own season pass

Now as you can see, this list is pretty big, and save for the last two, it applies for each hero; that's 18 instances of this list. Steel expenditures are insane.

Granted, my point wasn't to unlock all the stuff per-hero; rather, it's about rightfully rewarding the player for playing the game and for playing well in matches / winning matches. It's not that I need more Steel; it's that I'm not being rewarded the Steel I deserve, and constantly feel at a loss, doing an incessant grind for little gain.

Add to that: if you miss out on orders because of irl circumstances, the amount of Steel and XP you're losing, just for not playing the game for a few days, is aggravating. By what right, does Ubisoft label this game as 'AAA'? it's following a F2P MMO model which translates to bottlenecking, RNGfestation, and 'login bonus'.

If you play solely Raider, you have much less trouble than someone who plays, like, 5 heroes and wants to take care of them all with Change Look, gear upgrades, Mythic outfits, ornaments, executions... it ends up costing a fortune that requires you to farm, daily, for at least 6 months. And not missing one single order. Or, you know, go shell out $250 on microtransactions, to buy Steel packs.

Had the reward system been different in a way akin to what I described in this thread, you won't feel bottlenecked, nor doing an endless months-long grind just to fully complete the look of 2 heroes, and you won't be punished for missing out on orders or events.

The thing about loot is that, the entire RNG loot system needs to go. It has no place in For Honor, honestly. The only RNG should be what orders are generated for you to complete. Matches should yield XP, Steel, and Salvage. No more random loot, no more 'no loot found' screens. And there should be a 'Blacksmith Shop' in place of 'Scavenge Gear', where you can view, craft, forge, smith etc which gear you desire. And you may only craft/wear gear based on your tier. This sort of system.

That's why I don't really encourage to have more things other than gear lootable; because it pushes the RNG loot mechanic farther and it would become even harder to get rid of it altogether.

TheTool85
02-07-2018, 12:10 AM
Yeah you are right, the reward should be some kind of a representation of your performance in a match.
Still i think a proper loot system would be a better choice concerning the steel 'dilemma'.
Well, i think we have different opinions here. Which is good :) that's how a forum works.

Hopefully the devs will take a look into this threat. :)

bob333e
02-07-2018, 12:15 AM
We may have diverging opinions concerning the loot system, but both of us agree that the reward system needs an overhaul regardless. Most of all, I thank you for being discussive and constructive. That's more than can be said for most users on this forum.

Yeah... I'm skeptical about the representatives acknowledging this thread. I dunno. I can hope. It's a sensitive issue that also requires an overhaul of a major part of the game, and that also impacts the company's microtransaction campaign. Heh.

It will forever remain my major gripe with For Honor. And I can never forgive Ubisoft for ruining the game's core progression framework like this.

Jiblet2017
02-07-2018, 01:54 AM
Great ideas Fady. I also complete all of my orders nearly every day (since beta) and really struggle to unlock the content on my checklist.

I would also say basing gains off of performance in modes like dominion could be used to punish bot farmers (which I see on PC every 5 or so lobbies). Get 0 points if you didn't backfill - get 0 steel/xp and don't have the match count towards order completion. Even a novice player could get at least 1 point in dominion and avoid the penalty - but bots would have trouble.

bob333e
02-07-2018, 03:19 AM
Great ideas Fady. I also complete all of my orders nearly every day (since beta) and really struggle to unlock the content on my checklist.

I would also say basing gains off of performance in modes like dominion could be used to punish bot farmers (which I see on PC every 5 or so lobbies). Get 0 points if you didn't backfill - get 0 steel/xp and don't have the match count towards order completion. Even a novice player could get at least 1 point in dominion and avoid the penalty - but bots would have trouble.

Thanks for checking out my thread! appreciate the feedback.

Yeah, it would essentially rule out anyone who doesn't contribute to Dominion. On top of the improved AFK report options coming with S5, this would make it even harder on AFK farmers to 'farm' anything until they get reported, and would make the support/investigation teams' lives a lot easier. The poor souls will have to double-check every single report whether it's indeed an AFK farming incident. And you can guess they'll take some time to ban AFKers. With the suggestion I devised, it's an auto-rule out for these AFKers whenever they join any Dominion.

However still, I still feel that renown being purely the sole deciding factor to Steel gain end-match is a bit off. If anything, zone captures and takedowns should also have percentages. I will re-update my original post with a different take on Steel and XP gain from Dominion, instead of being purely based on renown alone.

I know how painful it is to collect XP and Steel. I'm in the same boat. I play daily and never missed one order. Except, I started early November. You've been putting up with this since beta... D: dang, dude. Mad respect for sticking around and never giving up despite all this.

It's good to see that this thread is resonating well with most. I deeply appreciate it.

bob333e
02-07-2018, 04:03 AM
Update #1 - 07/02/18:

Updated the reward calculation for PvP Dominion and PvAI Dominion in the original post. It's highlighted in blue.

BlowHard74728
02-07-2018, 04:09 AM
Update #1 - 07/02/18:

Updated the reward calculation for PvP Dominion and PvAI Dominion in the original post. It's highlighted in blue.

Yes i believe this idea right here will work a lot better than the previous one. My main concern right now is whether or not this thread will be brought up to the Devs

RoosterIlluzion
02-07-2018, 04:11 AM
I especially like the Dominion & skirmish reward idea. That would definitely help with the AFK situation. You don't help fight and capture, you get zero rewards. No xp, no steel.

BlowHard74728
02-07-2018, 04:14 AM
I especially like the Dominion & skirmish reward idea. That would definitely help with the AFK situation. You don't help fight and capture, you get zero rewards. No xp, no steel.

Yes i think it would be better to push towards captures in order to earn the steel in dominion that way it would encourage people to play that game mode the way it should be played. Lately dominion has turned into skirmish since the merging of skirmish and elimination

bob333e
02-07-2018, 04:23 AM
Yes i believe this idea right here will work a lot better than the previous one. My main concern right now is whether or not this thread will be brought up to the Devs

If this thread can get around 15 likes and 80+ replies, perhaps by then they'll consider. Because this is a controversial and sensitive topic :') I had a similar thread in Suggestions & Feedback that went ignored.
If this thread gets more popular, I'll even consider messaging Eric Pope myself. I'll patiently wait.


I especially like the Dominion & skirmish reward idea. That would definitely help with the AFK situation. You don't help fight and capture, you get zero rewards. No xp, no steel.


Yes i think it would be better to push towards captures in order to earn the steel in dominion that way it would encourage people to play that game mode the way it should be played. Lately dominion has turned into skirmish since the merging of skirmish and elimination

Indeed, indeed. That's part of the idea; the other part being, the better you play, the better you are rewarded, as it should be. It hits two birds with one rock. I can also personally attest to witnessing around half of the PvP Dominion matches going haywire into off-zone ganks and personal vendettas much like Skirmish. And forgetting about the zones.

That feel when you're standing alone in Zone A, admiring the view, drinking tea, and watching everyone else duke it out somewhere off-zone with Wow! Wow! Wow! in the lower left corner.... #RealDominionExperience

I'll reupdate the original post later, concerning Tribute. Tribute involves a bit more calculations. And thank you guys. It means a lot.

EvoX.
02-07-2018, 05:18 AM
These are some interesting ideas, but you know they're never gonna even get considered, right?

bob333e
02-07-2018, 05:24 AM
These are some interesting ideas, but you know they're never gonna even get considered, right?

Thanks for reading.

You never know. Worth a shot. Though, the original intent was simply to take it all off my chest. And to see whether it's going to be received positively. I'm thankful it did get positive feedback from everybody. It just cements how most of us are indeed suffering from this broken reward system.

The_B0G_
02-07-2018, 03:18 PM
I don't think the devs will go for your updated dominion XP and steel balance, realistically I could see them increasing the steel per match by 50 steel, for a total of 100 steel per match, if we're getting 500+ steel per match we would max out pretty fast.

bob333e
02-07-2018, 09:32 PM
I don't think the devs will go for your updated dominion XP and steel balance, realistically I could see them increasing the steel per match by 50 steel, for a total of 100 steel per match, if we're getting 500+ steel per match we would max out pretty fast.

You think 500 Steel per Dominion match is too much?

Personally, upon considering all of Change Look, gear upgrades, soon-to-be-forgotten purchases that include outfits and ornaments which you bought yesterday but won't equip anymore in 2 days because you changed your appearance etc, as well as the constant influx of weekly and seasonal content; add to that, Dominion is the most popular game mode, so in essence most players will be farming in Dominion; also each match is at least 10-12 minutes. In roughly 3 minutes you can complete a Duel for roughly 100ish Steel, as mentioned in my post (if you won the match). With this principle, doing 4 Duels for 12 minutes nets you 400ish Steel. In Dominion, you're doing more effort, there's team fights, assists, revives, zone captures, etc. For the same amount of time.

Finally, duplicate the expenditures of Change Look, gear upgrades, soon-to-be-forgotten purchases, and constant influx of weekly / seasonal content, by at least 18. There are 18 heroes in the roster. I'm not even counting how much gear each hero has, or the number of outfits and ornaments and effects and executions per hero.

I don't think we'd be sitting on banks with 500ish Steel per Dominion. But we'd be rewarded appropriately for playing a lengthy and messy 4v4 match, rewarded on individual performance in said lengthy match.

Nothing wrong with looking at your Steel and seeing, like, 43850 Steel. Which you can use whenever, should you need to upgrade gear, Change Look, buy an outfit... it's just that the playerbase isn't used to being rewarded. People have been playing this game for a year now, a year of bottlenecking and reward-throttling, and seeing Steel prices in the thousands everywhere. When a new, proper reward system barges in, everything is gonna look wrong and 'too good'.

You'll have a harder time reading a new thread I'll be making soon, intricately detailing an 8v8 Siege Mode. You've guessed it: Steel and XP reward per-match will be more than what I suggested for Dominion. :p

I'll be thankful if at least one representative hops in here and shares their thoughts, and discusses more on the topic. I'm not claiming my suggestions to be definite; but they're certainly a solid starting point. There's always room for improvement.

PDXGorechild
02-08-2018, 09:58 AM
- Reputation leveling: We should get 1,000 Steel for each new reputation level gained. Outside of random colors, engravings and patterns (half of which are downright depressingly wrong-looking), this is the best incentive to encourage a player to level up more and more, and this cements a clear leveling goal in the player's mind. Sure, I want an outfit at rep30 for its patterns and symbols, but that's rep30. It's still far off. Give me rewards that I deserve in the meantime, simply for just playing and enjoying the game with the heroes I like using the most..

Cool post, good ideas. Particularly this bit for me - there isn't much incentive to play a class past rank 25 or so. I've done it and it was mostly pointless and done more out of obsession and struggling to get on with other classes, I got pretty much nothing I wanted out of 15 ranks of levelling. By 25~ you have unlocked all the colours, tattoos, got all the gear pieces you need etc. All you get is paint patterns, none of which I like to be perfectly honest. They're all a bit lacklustre. Even more of an issue soon when prestige 25 will only be half way to cap. It would also be nice to receive some recognition for grinding out a class to max level. It took me almost a year and all I really have to show for it is "Rank 40 - 1" next to my character, like it's stuck there forever. Wouldn't take much to aggrandise "RANK 50" a bit graphically.

Couple this with your forge/blacksmith idea for making your own equipment rather than relying on RNG and the whole levelling and reward system would be much more engaging.

Tyrjo
02-08-2018, 11:47 AM
I payed for the game. I will NEVER use real money to buy steel. Never. It's not that I can't afford it, it's about making a statement.

I play all Viking heroes, one Knight and one Samurai. So eight heroes in total, there is no way I can be a completionist and get everything.

The way I see it, outfits are all the same, spending steel on them is a waste. Effects are all the same, spending steel on them is a waste. I have never upgraded a low quality item I couldn't max out.

I spend my steel on executions (up to unlocking the four ones I find coolest), upgrading gear the last few steps and occasionally on an emote that I find cool.

Yes, steel gain is painfully low in this game. They should change it, if they want new players to stay. But I doubt they ever will unfortunately. :(

bob333e
02-08-2018, 01:43 PM
Cool post, good ideas. Particularly this bit for me - there isn't much incentive to play a class past rank 25 or so. I've done it and it was mostly pointless and done more out of obsession and struggling to get on with other classes, I got pretty much nothing I wanted out of 15 ranks of levelling. By 25~ you have unlocked all the colours, tattoos, got all the gear pieces you need etc. All you get is paint patterns, none of which I like to be perfectly honest. They're all a bit lacklustre. Even more of an issue soon when prestige 25 will only be half way to cap. It would also be nice to receive some recognition for grinding out a class to max level. It took me almost a year and all I really have to show for it is "Rank 40 - 1" next to my character, like it's stuck there forever. Wouldn't take much to aggrandise "RANK 50" a bit graphically.

Couple this with your forge/blacksmith idea for making your own equipment rather than relying on RNG and the whole levelling and reward system would be much more engaging.

Thanks for checking out my thread buddy! appreciate the feedback.

I know, right? for me, upon reaching rep22 I started losing interest in further leveling my hero. It's all patterns, symbols, patterns, symbols.... some colors here and there. In my personal case, I needed one engraving at rep24, one at rep25, and I want an outfit at rep30. That's pretty much the entire reason why I'm still leveling him. Past rep30, I don't see much justification for all this grinding. It's a chore, a needless one, purely for boasting purposes that "I'm a max level Warden" which, honestly, I don't give two craps about. I've met and defeated two rep40 Wardens. You reach your actual skill threshold between rep20 and rep30. After that it's just a matter of being well warmed up and ready for fights, with high reaction time and razor sharp focus. Regardless of rep level.

And don't even get me started on this broken loot system... I know, the Blacksmith Shop idea is much more fitting for the game. It's an actual AAA-grade, RPG-oriented system, it fits in For Honor. This isn't Clash Of Clans on Android. But it sure is trying to be.


I payed for the game. I will NEVER use real money to buy steel. Never. It's not that I can't afford it, it's about making a statement.

Same 100%.


I play all Viking heroes, one Knight and one Samurai. So eight heroes in total, there is no way I can be a completionist and get everything.

I play 5 heroes: Warden (main), Berserker, Raider, Kensei, Shugoki. I've been meaning to buy Highlander but I'll postpone him. Because I still have outfits to get for Warden. I'm also nurturing three Warden loadouts, each having different patterns, colors, engravings and symbols, and each needing different effects and outfits. So essentially, you may count Warden as the equivalent of three heroes. Technically, I'm playing 7 heroes.

I haven't bought a single thing for any other hero, save for an ornament for Valkyrie worth 1,000 because it looks better than the default horns on her.

I also never could afford a Champion Status. Always saving Steel for Warden. The only times I acquire Champion Status is during compensations, and the Open Test rewards in December.


The way I see it, outfits are all the same, spending steel on them is a waste. Effects are all the same, spending steel on them is a waste. I have never upgraded a low quality item I couldn't max out. I spend my steel on executions (up to unlocking the four ones I find coolest), upgrading gear the last few steps and occasionally on an emote that I find cool.

I agree. Many of the effects and outfits are complete garbage, honestly. Taste remains subjective, and a lot of people still find them attracting; but not me. I own 4 Battle outfits, 3 Elite outfits, 3 Mythic outfits, and currently saving up for the Tundra Gryphon Mask outfit. I own like 3 effects that didn't come from the Mythic outfits. That's three entire months of daily grinding and never missing one order, and solely on Warden. It's downright ridiculous.


Yes, steel gain is painfully low in this game. They should change it, if they want new players to stay. But I doubt they ever will unfortunately. :(

I know, it's highly unlikely. It directly impacts their sweet microtransaction campaign. On the topic of which... let me quote something very unpleasant which I caught just now in 2 threads:


I do hope they come in. I plan on doing a big shopping spree of executions, emotes, effects. Etc.


Im gonna be buying some steel after I do a round up of what executions I want, emotes, and effects.

It is when these good people fall for these traps, that they keep encouraging this model. And further cements my point.

I know, to each his own; he's free to spend his buck in whichever way he wants. But this is wrong regardless. It's terribly wrong.

Thanks for hopping on here, and thanks for reading my thread. I deeply appreciate it, and I enjoy knowing that it resonates well with anyone who's reading it. I know I've hit a hard spot; but I know I'm right. This needs to change. I can only hope I can help in striking some sort of difference. For both the sake of the game, and the sake of Ubisoft's image in the future.

PDXGorechild
02-08-2018, 03:13 PM
Thanks for checking out my thread buddy! appreciate the feedback.

I know, right? for me, upon reaching rep22 I started losing interest in further leveling my hero. It's all patterns, symbols, patterns, symbols.... some colors here and there. In my personal case, I needed one engraving at rep24, one at rep25, and I want an outfit at rep30. That's pretty much the entire reason why I'm still leveling him. Past rep30, I don't see much justification for all this grinding. It's a chore, a needless one, purely for boasting purposes that "I'm a max level Warden" which, honestly, I don't give two craps about. I've met and defeated two rep40 Wardens. You reach your actual skill threshold between rep20 and rep30. After that it's just a matter of being well warmed up and ready for fights, with high reaction time and razor sharp focus. Regardless of rep level.

And don't even get me started on this broken loot system... I know, the Blacksmith Shop idea is much more fitting for the game. It's an actual AAA-grade, RPG-oriented system, it fits in For Honor. This isn't Clash Of Clans on Android. But it sure is trying to be..

No worries, hope you get some dev attention on this one.

Yeah i'm with you on the skill cap being around there. Certainly don't feel like I learnt anything about my main past about rank 25, only my increasing knowledge of other classes helped. This makes it doubly important for them to put more incentive into levelling higher.

Did you play Elder scrolls online? You could have a blacksmith station in the For Honor menu like they did in town. Your character bangs away on an anvil while you make your gear. It'd be so easy for them to do it Fallout 4 style - have different metal you acquire for different tiers, form the metal into a style you like, and pick a couple properties. "Sharpened" for extra attack, "Penetrating" for defence penetration etc. Hit "Forge" and you've got your "Sharpened, penetrating Feral hog hand axe" for example. Fusing the weapon parts together forever, or until you destroy it for scrap. A half-baked idea I know but you see what I mean.

Hormly
02-08-2018, 04:20 PM
If we do well in a match we should get a pencil that says "great work!" On it.

My teacher did this for me once in grade 4 and i felt awesome.

bob333e
02-08-2018, 04:55 PM
If we do well in a match we should get a pencil that says "great work!" On it.

My teacher did this for me once in grade 4 and i felt awesome.

Hah! Would be a wonderful in-game equivalent: a blade that has 'Bravo!' carved on it, a handle that has a note hanging out from it saying 'keep it up!', and a guard that is hollow in the middle, holding M&Ms and Smarties of all colours. Who needs Steel anyway, amirite?


Did you play Elder scrolls online? You could have a blacksmith station in the For Honor menu like they did in town. Your character bangs away on an anvil while you make your gear. It'd be so easy for them to do it Fallout 4 style - have different metal you acquire for different tiers, form the metal into a style you like, and pick a couple properties. "Sharpened" for extra attack, "Penetrating" for defence penetration etc. Hit "Forge" and you've got your "Sharpened, penetrating Feral hog hand axe" for example. Fusing the weapon parts together forever, or until you destroy it for scrap. A half-baked idea I know but you see what I mean.

I completely avoided ES:O, I felt it was a cheap Elder Scrolls, there's nothing in it that says 'Elder Scrolls', to me it's a random MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin on it. I only really liked the cinematics...
However I went and youtubed what you mentioned; suffice to say, this sparked a lot of good ideas in my mind, concerning a Blacksmith Shop implementation in For Honor. Thank you for sharing this thought.

I'll be packing something together and get back to replying to you about it. I'll try to photoshop some stuff so that I can properly convey how I feel a Blacksmith Shop should be in For Honor (or at least try to).

This will also deserve being a thread on its own. I'm confident it will send good vibes along in this forum.

PDXGorechild
02-08-2018, 05:01 PM
I completely avoided ES:O, I felt it was a cheap Elder Scrolls, there's nothing in it that says 'Elder Scrolls', to me it's a random MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin on it. I only really liked the cinematics...
However I went and youtubed what you mentioned; suffice to say, this sparked a lot of good ideas in my mind, concerning a Blacksmith Shop implementation in For Honor. Thank you for sharing this thought.

I'll be packing something together and get back to replying to you about it. I'll try to photoshop some stuff so that I can properly convey how I feel a Blacksmith Shop should be in For Honor (or at least try to).

This will also deserve being a thread on its own. I'm confident it will send good vibes along in this forum.

Yeah it was trash and felt nothing like Skyrim to me :rolleyes: Didn't play it for long as a result but the blacksmithing was awesome.

Good stuff, looking forward to it!

bob333e
02-14-2018, 09:18 PM
Update #2 14/02/2018:

Updated the original post on Skirmish. It is highlighted in purple.

A bit of a detailed explanation on the change:

I'd like to think, Skirmish is an after-war scouting mission (the actual war being Dominion, if you may) where two teams of scavenging warriors visit a torn battlefield to salvage what they can from the aftermath. Destroyed buildings, blown grounds, destroyed catapults, destroyed siege machines, etc. They all provide scrap metal, scrap wood, scrap material in general that proves useful for crafting, building, and upgrading.

Skirmish is about re-visiting a certain battlefield where a Dominion previously took place; warriors are there to loot the scraps and remains, which are essentially, to us players, Salvage. And fighting over this Salvage.

On top of having it a logical correlation between the game modes, I think this will effectively revive the Skirmish mode as an efficient Salvage-farming mode. With the oncoming Season 5 XP Boosts (costs going up to 15,000 Salvage per Boost per-match a day), I think we're all gonna run pretty low on Salvage if we keep buying those boosts. It's only reasonable to have somewhere we can farm Salvage in a logical way. Which also doubly benefits the gameplay side of things.

Thanks for reading. :)

Lethalchem
02-14-2018, 10:20 PM
Thank you for your input.

I play daily for like 3 hours and never miss a single order, I play any hero I have to, to complete all orders (except the one that requires co-op, which I cannot, as I play solo). I don't care which hero I must play so long as I earn all the Steel gain from all the orders combined.

Even then, I barely save up 9K-10K a week, that's if I never did any Change Look or gear upgrade. And considering the influx of weekly content, you're pretty much set for something new every week. If you have a backlog checklist to clear, such as mine (I started For Honor early November, so you can guess how much stuff I have on my checklist), then all the additional weekly and seasonal content become a drag and an added unfair grind just so you can catch up with the newest released stuff.

It doesn't stop there. As you learn more than one hero, and want to diversify and rep up several heroes, you'd naturally want to take care of their looks and gear. Keep in mind my aforementioned checklist is solely for my main (Warden), I haven't been buying anything for any other hero, save for an ornament for Valkyrie because it looked better than the default horns. And so far I've spent somewhere around 80K Steel ever since I started playing, 98% of it being just on Warden, between outfits, ornaments, effects, executions, emotes, Change Look, and gear upgrades.

80K of daily grinding for 3 months in a row now, and I'm not even done with one hero. How is this fair? of course not looking to buy everything, many of his stuff suck anyway and are downright ugly, I'm just acquiring the best there is. I still have a few effects, two Mythic Outfits, and the Tundra Gryphon Outfit. That's around 65K left to clear.

I know 10 bucks sounds like a snack's value if I ever decide to throw 10 bucks at buying some Steel to help myself out, but I despise and boycott microtransactions with a deep, intense hatred. It makes no sense at all that I have to grind daily for 3 months, and also throw 10-20 additional bucks, to finally unlock the stuff I desire on one hero (keep in mind I'm customizing all three loadouts, each having different effects and outfits). Should I miss one order, that's at least 800 wasted Steel and 500-750 wasted XP, which is the equivalent of 10 hours straight of gameplay (!!!!!!)

I also never was able to afford a Champion Status. I only have Champion Status from compensations and Open Test rewards. I have a checklist to clear, can't afford to throw Steel on Champion Status.

This system downright sucks and we deserve a lot more than this. There is no player progression at all. It's a forced grinding and you're severely punished when you miss orders because of irl circumstances.

Iím not sure Iíd go as far as to say the whole system sucks. Some of it may simply boil down to whether you think you should be able to obtain EVERY single thing the game offers, or if you just pick and choose things that really stand out to you.

I play all the characters, my lowest one is rep 2, highest is rep 40. I did not have the season pass so I had to purchase all of the DLC characters as well. I THINK I have purchased at least one thing for each of the characters at some point. I have a year of champion status. I have 1.5million salvage, and 370,000 steel currently saved.

I donít think itís been difficult to build up a surplus of steel or to be able to purchase things here and there when something caught my eye. Many of the outfits, emotes, effects, and executions donít suit me, so...I donít buy them. Ubi ran a 50% discount on champion status last year so I picked up a full year for 32,500 steel. Thatís not insane. Iím sure they will probably do it again at some point as well.

I started out shooting to earn enough steel to buy the next round of new characters as they were released two at a time. Then I thought Iíd want a buffer for anything special that might come out that I just had to have. It just kept growing from there. Itís doable, unless you simply want everything... which seems kinda unrealistic anyway. We shouldnít be able to get everything we want. :p

E1seNw0Lf
02-14-2018, 10:41 PM
Only thing I like to see right now is that they announce the Season Rewards BEFORE the season launches (or at least right after the start).
AND that all players get an ornament - at least for their own faction. Ornaments could differ by bronce, silver and gold attachments (like the emblem outlines do) ... appearing a bit different than the faction winner ones.

What do we get this time? An apple. An ugly looking apple? Three bananas? Will I like the stuff for my favorite faction?
NO ONE KNOWS, cuz ubi don't care about it?

PS: Also a question by my side:
Why do faction winners get ornaments for all three factions and not only for the faction they are in?!
I personly join a faction BECAUSE I want something for exactly that one faction.. "my faction".

bob333e
02-14-2018, 11:11 PM
I’m not sure I’d go as far as to say the whole system sucks. Some of it may simply boil down to whether you think you should be able to obtain EVERY single thing the game offers, or if you just pick and choose things that really stand out to you.

I play all the characters, my lowest one is rep 2, highest is rep 40. I did not have the season pass so I had to purchase all of the DLC characters as well. I THINK I have purchased at least one thing for each of the characters at some point. I have a year of champion status. I have 1.5million salvage, and 370,000 steel currently saved.

I don’t think it’s been difficult to build up a surplus of steel or to be able to purchase things here and there when something caught my eye. Many of the outfits, emotes, effects, and executions don’t suit me, so...I don’t buy them. Ubi ran a 50% discount on champion status last year so I picked up a full year for 32,500 steel. That’s not insane. I’m sure they will probably do it again at some point as well.

I started out shooting to earn enough steel to buy the next round of new characters as they were released two at a time. Then I thought I’d want a buffer for anything special that might come out that I just had to have. It just kept growing from there. It’s doable, unless you simply want everything... which seems kinda unrealistic anyway. We shouldn’t be able to get everything we want. :p

Hey, welcome to the thread, and thanks for reading!

Quoting some of my replies above:


Personally, upon considering all of Change Look, gear upgrades, soon-to-be-forgotten purchases that include outfits and ornaments which you bought yesterday but won't equip anymore in 2 days because you changed your appearance etc, as well as the constant influx of weekly and seasonal content; add to that, Dominion is the most popular game mode, so in essence most players will be farming in Dominion; also each match is at least 10-12 minutes. In roughly 3 minutes you can complete a Duel for roughly 100ish Steel, as mentioned in my post (if you won the match). With this principle, doing 4 Duels for 12 minutes nets you 400ish Steel. In Dominion, you're doing more effort, there's team fights, assists, revives, zone captures, etc. For the same amount of time.

Finally, duplicate the expenditures of Change Look, gear upgrades, soon-to-be-forgotten purchases, and constant influx of weekly / seasonal content, by at least 18. There are 18 heroes in the roster. I'm not even counting how much gear each hero has, or the number of outfits and ornaments and effects and executions per hero.

I don't think we'd be sitting on banks with 500ish Steel per Dominion. But we'd be rewarded appropriately for playing a lengthy and messy 4v4 match, rewarded on individual performance in said lengthy match.


Nothing wrong with looking at your Steel and seeing, like, 43850 Steel. Which you can use whenever, should you need to upgrade gear, Change Look, buy an outfit... it's just that the playerbase isn't used to being rewarded. People have been playing this game for a year now, a year of bottlenecking and reward-throttling, and seeing Steel prices in the thousands everywhere. When a new, proper reward system barges in, everything is gonna look wrong and 'too good'.


I myself don't care for a lot of those effects and silly stuff they've added, like sport emotes. I do, however, care about colors, patterns, engravings, and some ornaments. And only a few effects. And I resort to a lot of Change Look. And upon achieving final gear look, I go max my gear. Unfortunately, all of this costs a fortune. On just one hero. Purely because you're not being rewarded for playing their game and doing matches.

As you can see, this isn't about being able to unlock/buy everything; it's about you, the player, not being properly rewarded per-match, and when you consider all the options listed on here:

- Change Look
- Gear upgrades
- Combat emotes
- Idle emotes
- Idle effects
- Emote effects
- Execution effects
- Executions
- Battle outfits
- Elite outfits
- Mythic outfits
- Mask outfits
- Ornaments
- Buying scavenger crates
- Buying seasonal / event bundles
- Buying Champion Status
- Buying DLC heroes if you don't own season pass

Quoting myself again:


Now as you can see, this list is pretty big, and save for the last two, it applies for each hero; that's 18 instances of this list. Steel expenditures are insane.

Granted, my point wasn't to unlock all the stuff per-hero; rather, it's about rightfully rewarding the player for playing the game and for playing well in matches / winning matches. It's not that I need more Steel; it's that I'm not being rewarded the Steel I deserve, and constantly feel at a loss, doing an incessant grind for little gain.

Add to that: if you miss out on orders because of irl circumstances, the amount of Steel and XP you're losing, just for not playing the game for a few days, is aggravating. By what right, does Ubisoft label this game as 'AAA'? it's following a F2P MMO model which translates to bottlenecking, RNGfestation, and 'login bonus'.


I agree. Many of the effects and outfits are complete garbage, honestly. Taste remains subjective, and a lot of people still find them attracting; but not me. I own 4 Battle outfits, 3 Elite outfits, 3 Mythic outfits, and currently saving up for the Tundra Gryphon Mask outfit. I own like 3 effects that didn't come from the Mythic outfits. That's three entire months of daily grinding and never missing one order, and solely on Warden. It's downright ridiculous.

It was never about obtaining everything that's purchasable with Steel. It's about making this entire reward system being worth it, for essentially pouring hours over hours of gameplay just to save up on Steel and accumulate XP; and let's not mention, as stated above, the extreme punishment should you miss out on orders and/or events.

Now, I'll directly answer some of the things you've stated:


I play all the characters, my lowest one is rep 2, highest is rep 40.

How many are at rep40? one or two? with a rep2 hero, you didn't bother to reach Legendary gear, nor upgrade to 180. Furthermore, only by reaching rep22ish onwards, will you start unlocking the real good patterns, colors, symbols and engravings; which, in turn, will encourage you to do more advanced mixups and combinations. Not the least being, those that are locked behind Mythic and Mask outfits, for instance. Many players, like me, eventually find themselves wanting a color from outfit A, a pattern from outfit B, an ornament from outfit C... and of course new effects to work with our new appearances. This will easily amount to 60K+ Steel. Wouldn't you feel you're being essentially drained of Steel?

Also, how many loadouts do you take care of, per hero? do you fill all loadouts with varied colors/patterns/symbols/effects/ornaments/emotes/executions? Because a lot of players do, including me. My main hero has 3 filled loadouts, he alone is like playing 3 different heroes.

I'm in awe that you have 370,000 Steel in savings, I don't suppose that's even remotely possible without resorting to microtransactions at least twice; but, granted, you can waste them all in one day, should you choose to. And you're not gonna waste them, because you inherently know, it's a life-killing process to collect all that Steel again. See what I'm aiming at?

My stated goal wasn't to simply want everything; instead, I'd like a system that does not penalize you or punish you for both playing and not playing. For a bit of a comparative background, consider Skyrim. In Skyrim, you can spend Gold on a truckload of stuff and literally run yourself out of Gold every so often. Yet in 2 months, in just 2 months of playing, I had reached level 87ish and completed tons of side quests and the main story, I had around 400k Gold, plus I had bought all the houses in all the cities, all of them fully refurbished, and more than half of my equipped gear were manually crafted, enchanted, and upgraded. No mods were used (played on PS3). And when I go throw away, like 100K Gold, I don't cry about it because I know I can recollect that in like 2 weeks at most, of daily play.

Not hinting at For Honor assuming the role of Skyrim in anything, and I know that in Skyrim you can farm a lot more than in For Honor, but that's how a game rewards you the more you play. It's your right, to accumulate all that wealth, the more you play. It's not necessarily wanting everything; it's about having a more user-friendly experience that will not force you by any means to play during a specific day or week, or to complete a specific community order during a specific timeframe; and should you miss out or be taking a break from gaming or whatever, you're severely punished forever. There's no getting that lost Steel or XP back.

I could have bought Champion Status back in January, but I refused to. I still had things to buy for my main hero, and I play every day to not miss my orders.

Not saying that with the current system it's not doable; I simply pointed out that it's too unfair and becomes like a job, not a leisure thing. And way too time-consuming for its sake. It's really not worth grinding for 2 months for 65K Steel. You can waste all that Steel on, what, 2-3 outfits and 1 emote and 1 execution. I'm using the word 'waste', not 'spend'. What you spend is easily re-obtainable; what you waste, is a hair-pulling grind to collect back.

bob333e
02-14-2018, 11:15 PM
Only thing I like to see right now is that they announce the Season Rewards BEFORE the season launches (or at least right after the start).
AND that all players get an ornament - at least for their own faction. Ornaments could differ by bronce, silver and gold attachments (like the emblem outlines do) ... appearing a bit different than the faction winner ones.

What do we get this time? An apple. An ugly looking apple? Three bananas? Will I like the stuff for my favorite faction?
NO ONE KNOWS, cuz ubi don't care about it?

PS: Also a question by my side:
Why do faction winners get ornaments for all three factions and not only for the faction they are in?!
I personly join a faction BECAUSE I want something for exactly that one faction.. "my faction".

Hey, thanks for reading, and welcome!

Yeah, that's one major flaw with how the Faction War is currently designed. It's essentially a circus show based on a mishmash of messy statistics, settled around speculative, questionable, and unsettled rewards, with this ongoing reward system. Players engage in the Faction War for 4 months without even knowing what they could get out of it. And when you do, 80% of the time it wasn't really worth it. It's a mess.

Lethalchem
02-15-2018, 01:07 AM
Hey, welcome to the thread, and thanks for reading!

Quoting some of my replies above:







As you can see, this isn't about being able to unlock/buy everything; it's about you, the player, not being properly rewarded per-match, and when you consider all the options listed on here:

- Change Look
- Gear upgrades
- Combat emotes
- Idle emotes
- Idle effects
- Emote effects
- Execution effects
- Executions
- Battle outfits
- Elite outfits
- Mythic outfits
- Mask outfits
- Ornaments
- Buying scavenger crates
- Buying seasonal / event bundles
- Buying Champion Status
- Buying DLC heroes if you don't own season pass

Quoting myself again:





It was never about obtaining everything that's purchasable with Steel. It's about making this entire reward system being worth it, for essentially pouring hours over hours of gameplay just to save up on Steel and accumulate XP; and let's not mention, as stated above, the extreme punishment should you miss out on orders and/or events.

Now, I'll directly answer some of the things you've stated:



How many are at rep40? one or two? with a rep2 hero, you didn't bother to reach Legendary gear, nor upgrade to 180. Furthermore, only by reaching rep22ish onwards, will you start unlocking the real good patterns, colors, symbols and engravings; which, in turn, will encourage you to do more advanced mixups and combinations. Not the least being, those that are locked behind Mythic and Mask outfits, for instance. Many players, like me, eventually find themselves wanting a color from outfit A, a pattern from outfit B, an ornament from outfit C... and of course new effects to work with our new appearances. This will easily amount to 60K+ Steel. Wouldn't you feel you're being essentially drained of Steel?

Also, how many loadouts do you take care of, per hero? do you fill all loadouts with varied colors/patterns/symbols/effects/ornaments/emotes/executions? Because a lot of players do, including me. My main hero has 3 filled loadouts, he alone is like playing 3 different heroes.

I'm in awe that you have 370,000 Steel in savings, I don't suppose that's even remotely possible without resorting to microtransactions at least twice; but, granted, you can waste them all in one day, should you choose to. And you're not gonna waste them, because you inherently know, it's a life-killing process to collect all that Steel again. See what I'm aiming at?

My stated goal wasn't to simply want everything; instead, I'd like a system that does not penalize you or punish you for both playing and not playing. For a bit of a comparative background, consider Skyrim. In Skyrim, you can spend Gold on a truckload of stuff and literally run yourself out of Gold every so often. Yet in 2 months, in just 2 months of playing, I had reached level 87ish and completed tons of side quests and the main story, I had around 400k Gold, plus I had bought all the houses in all the cities, all of them fully refurbished, and more than half of my equipped gear were manually crafted, enchanted, and upgraded. No mods were used (played on PS3). And when I go throw away, like 100K Gold, I don't cry about it because I know I can recollect that in like 2 weeks at most, of daily play.

Not hinting at For Honor assuming the role of Skyrim in anything, and I know that in Skyrim you can farm a lot more than in For Honor, but that's how a game rewards you the more you play. It's your right, to accumulate all that wealth, the more you play. It's not necessarily wanting everything; it's about having a more user-friendly experience that will not force you by any means to play during a specific day or week, or to complete a specific community order during a specific timeframe; and should you miss out or be taking a break from gaming or whatever, you're severely punished forever. There's no getting that lost Steel or XP back.

I could have bought Champion Status back in January, but I refused to. I still had things to buy for my main hero, and I play every day to not miss my orders.

Not saying that with the current system it's not doable; I simply pointed out that it's too unfair and becomes like a job, not a leisure thing. And way too time-consuming for its sake. It's really not worth grinding for 2 months for 65K Steel. You can waste all that Steel on, what, 2-3 outfits and 1 emote and 1 execution. I'm using the word 'waste', not 'spend'. What you spend is easily re-obtainable; what you waste, is a hair-pulling grind to collect back.

I have spent zero dollars on the game (aside from the initial game purchase of course), but in reading your comments I can see where the differences in our approach may lie.

Although I have a rep 40, 25, 21, and a ton of rep 15+ characters (overall rep 204), I donít believe I have ANY of my gear bumped to 180. I think I may only have 4 or 5 chars that donít have legendary gear, but I havenít upgraded any of the legendary stuff.

Initially this was because FH kept increasing the gear tiers with each new season. I wasnít going to blow money on upgrading something that was going to become obsolete when the next season started with new gear. However, once they stopped increasing the tiers I realized I didnít feel I had been at much of a disadvantage at 164 so I felt upgrading wasnít really a very efficient use of steel.

I do have multiple load outs on my main, but they only differ in ways that are free. They donít have anything I didnít unlock through events or grinding. I have purchased executions here and there that I have liked, and I purchased a few masks and an outfit or two, but nothing like what you are talking about spending steel on. The majority of the steel I have spent has been on unlocking alll the DLC characters. That was a much better bang for the buck than anything else, in my opinion.

So in fairness, I can see why trying to buy all the things you want to do with your characters could put a hurt on your pile of steel. If I were trying to do all that perhaps I would feel the system was messed up too. I donít know. I feel like I buy everything I want and still seem to have plenty left over. I think you and I just have different goals in mind for our chars (which is certainly fine).

bob333e
02-15-2018, 07:47 AM
I have spent zero dollars on the game (aside from the initial game purchase of course), but in reading your comments I can see where the differences in our approach may lie.

Although I have a rep 40, 25, 21, and a ton of rep 15+ characters (overall rep 204), I don’t believe I have ANY of my gear bumped to 180. I think I may only have 4 or 5 chars that don’t have legendary gear, but I haven’t upgraded any of the legendary stuff.

Initially this was because FH kept increasing the gear tiers with each new season. I wasn’t going to blow money on upgrading something that was going to become obsolete when the next season started with new gear. However, once they stopped increasing the tiers I realized I didn’t feel I had been at much of a disadvantage at 164 so I felt upgrading wasn’t really a very efficient use of steel.

I do have multiple load outs on my main, but they only differ in ways that are free. They don’t have anything I didn’t unlock through events or grinding. I have purchased executions here and there that I have liked, and I purchased a few masks and an outfit or two, but nothing like what you are talking about spending steel on. The majority of the steel I have spent has been on unlocking alll the DLC characters. That was a much better bang for the buck than anything else, in my opinion.

So in fairness, I can see why trying to buy all the things you want to do with your characters could put a hurt on your pile of steel. If I were trying to do all that perhaps I would feel the system was messed up too. I don’t know. I feel like I buy everything I want and still seem to have plenty left over. I think you and I just have different goals in mind for our chars (which is certainly fine).

We do bear different views, largely because I'm someone relatively new at the game (I only started early November) while you're someone who's been farming since the betas, if I'm not mistaken. You've been with this system for a year now, you got used to how unfair it is in general; any new suggestive (and better) reward system will sound out-of-place and too good. Had I been around since the betas and suggested this approach by, say, around March 2017, pretty sure your reaction would have been different. ^^

You've amassed 400K Steel without even spending extra money?? holy... I'm guessing you don't miss out on orders and you play daily? also, you focused on buying all DLC heroes (90,000 Steel) and a year of Champion Status at 50% discount (32,500). Summed together they're 122,500 Steel. Did you know, this is around the same amount I've spent just on one hero? in 3 months? I've spent more than 100K Steel on a lot of Change Look, gear upgrades, outfits, some ornaments, some effects, executions and emotes. One hero. I have three loadouts, all upgraded to 180, and all of them have appearances that have been meticulously taken care of from every angle. Specific patterns, colors, symbols, ornaments, effects, and gear pieces for each loadout.

The only thing I ever bought for ANY other hero, was a horn ornament for Valkyrie worth 1,000, because it looked better on her than the default horns. Every other expenditure was solely on my main hero. Never bought any DLC hero and never bought Champion Status, I only acquired Champion Status from compensations, Open Test rewards, and Age of Wolves Reveal rewards.

I kind of feel bad for you. You play all these heroes at rep15, 21, 25 and 40, yet don't own all the best outfits (like, 4 Mythics and 4 Elites per hero), and I'd bet you don't own all the good ornaments (like, 6-7 ornaments per hero). And you don't have 180 gear, and I suppose you didn't resort a lot to Change Look to get the exact stats you want (because those who do that inevitably upgrade to 180).

Did you buy the recent Frost Wind Mask outfits? I didn't. Not a single one. Don't have enough Steel yet, and have other things to clear on my checklist first.

I play to enjoy the game. I play to enjoy PvP and to enjoy customizing my heroes the way I see fit, without being hindered or punished or bottlenecked in any way. The more I play, the better rewards I should deserve for playing. A game like For Honor, which is an RPG-oriented multiplayer-based fighting game, should allow you to craft your own personal progression route, free of any obligations. As it stands, For Honor adopts the F2P MMO model where it intentionally bottlenecks your progress and Steel gain so that, should you choose to go full-pedal with customization and gear upgrades, you'll inevitably have to resort to microtransactions. Or, farm relentlessly for a year.

Hate to break it to you, but you spent 90,000 Steel on all DLC heroes. If we account for how Steel Packs are priced in their microtransactions, you must buy two 65,000 Steel packs in order to be able to spend 90,000. Each 65,000 Steel Pack is at $67 (the price of a whole game). This is roughly $140. And you spent that on 6 DLC heroes.

Had you bought the Season Pass, which is $55, you get all 6 DLC heroes, plus special emblem outlines, colors, patterns, and symbols. And I believe you get a 1-month Champion Status.

So in essence, instead of playing the game your way, being free in unlocking/buying visual upgrades and upgrading your equipment, you felt rather limited and that you had to put everything on pause just so you save enough Steel to buy all DLC heroes. On top of that, you're completely unwilling to waste those 370,000 Steel now. You'd feel like you lost an entire year of savings if you spent those. You'd cry over a loss of 100K Steel in one day. 100K for me is:

- Mask outfit for Raider (20,000 Steel)
- Mask outfit for Shugoki (20,000 Steel)
- 2 executions for Warden (14,000 Steel)
- 4 emotes for 4 different heroes (say 25,000 Steel)
- 1 ornament for Berserker (5,000 Steel)
- Mythic outfit for Warden (15,000 Steel).

As you can see, simply for wanting enhanced visual upgrades with a good blend of colors and patterns and symbols and effects, that also go hand-to-hand with some emotes and some ornaments, ends up in me wasting 100K Steel in basically 10 minutes. And we haven't even mentioned Change Look or gear upgrades. How long does it take you to collect 100K Steel? if you don't miss out on one single order and you play daily, you need roughly 3.5 months. See what I mean?

It's by no means buying everything; it's simply you wanting to play the game as you should be playing it. And being properly rewarded for playing and keeping your experience within the sphere of leisure and entertainment; not a damn job, and a punishing one at that, should you miss orders.

Lethalchem
02-15-2018, 04:24 PM
Lol, donít feel sorry for me. I donít miss out on anything I would actuallly want to put on my character. Obviously I have enough to buy whatever enhancements I want, there just isnít a ton of things I think is worth the steel. These are warriors in bloody combat, I donít want a goofy fish on my head or some feathers and twigs. Hehehe

I started playing at the end of season 1. I didnt know how much Iíd enjoy it so I didnít jump right in with any specific plan in mind. Back then, they were coming out wih new equipment, outfits, effects, executions, etc at what seemed like a weekly rate. There was always something cooler on the horizon so I was more thoughtful about what I spent money on.

Yes, I play daily and I complete all the orders. Itís easy money and great xp. You can typically knock them all out in an hour or two, and they give you 48hrs in most cases, so no real reason not to get them done.

There are 6 DLC in total, so it actually cost me 180,000, not 90,000. Not that it matters. If I had the season pass I would just have 550,000 in the back instead of 370,000 which doesnít change anything except i would have spent real money on stuff I could get for free.

I bought a demon guardian mask for my Shinobi and several howl at the moon emotes during Halloween event because they were awesome. I didnít buy any masks during he winter event due to lack of interest in them.

As you get your characters higher levels you might find many of the embossings, colors, and designs are better than the things you get from purchased outfits. Anyone with daddyís CC can walk around wearing one of those outfits, but if requires effort to sport a rep 40 design, which means more in my opinion.

Also, I spend steel to change the look of my equipment all the time. The fun equipment and weapons are one of the main things I enjoy about progressing through the game.

When it comes to buying things, when I see something that makes me say, ďWow! Now THAT is BA!Ē, then I buy it. I think youíre going to find youíre wastijg a lot of steel on things you will change out later.

bob333e
02-16-2018, 01:05 AM
Lol, don’t feel sorry for me. I don’t miss out on anything I would actuallly want to put on my character. Obviously I have enough to buy whatever enhancements I want, there just isn’t a ton of things I think is worth the steel. These are warriors in bloody combat, I don’t want a goofy fish on my head or some feathers and twigs. Hehehe

I started playing at the end of season 1. I didnt know how much I’d enjoy it so I didn’t jump right in with any specific plan in mind. Back then, they were coming out wih new equipment, outfits, effects, executions, etc at what seemed like a weekly rate. There was always something cooler on the horizon so I was more thoughtful about what I spent money on.

Yes, I play daily and I complete all the orders. It’s easy money and great xp. You can typically knock them all out in an hour or two, and they give you 48hrs in most cases, so no real reason not to get them done.

There are 6 DLC in total, so it actually cost me 180,000, not 90,000. Not that it matters. If I had the season pass I would just have 550,000 in the back instead of 370,000 which doesn’t change anything except i would have spent real money on stuff I could get for free.

I bought a demon guardian mask for my Shinobi and several howl at the moon emotes during Halloween event because they were awesome. I didn’t buy any masks during he winter event due to lack of interest in them.

As you get your characters higher levels you might find many of the embossings, colors, and designs are better than the things you get from purchased outfits. Anyone with daddy’s CC can walk around wearing one of those outfits, but if requires effort to sport a rep 40 design, which means more in my opinion.

Also, I spend steel to change the look of my equipment all the time. The fun equipment and weapons are one of the main things I enjoy about progressing through the game.

When it comes to buying things, when I see something that makes me say, “Wow! Now THAT is BA!”, then I buy it. I think you’re going to find you’re wastijg a lot of steel on things you will change out later.

Wait, what.... isn't each hero at 15,000 Steel? how did you lose 180,000 Steel...

Do you mean Season 2? there was no season 1, far as I recall; it was game launch, then extra heroes in March (LB, Warlord, Shugo I think) then Season 2 happened after. I for one had avoided this game back then. I was still absorbed a lot into Dark Souls 3 (my original background, from where I came into For Honor), and back then was still extremely skeptical about the game, as my first ever impression was, it was sunken into microtransactions. That first impression waxed and waned with the passing months till I eventually bought the game in November.

I do not regret buying this game. I absolutely love it. I still play Dark Souls 3 of course, and the other Soulsborne games, but I wanted, and needed, a break from Soulsborne. I wanted some gritty medieval melee combat genre. For Honor more or less realized my desires.

I say more or less because, the more I play it, the deeper I can gaze into its terrible, horrible issues and just can't help but take it off my chest sometimes. Hence why I come up with threads like these. While such threads do prove insightful and helpful to others, I myself still feel helpless. To me, this game is like a drug. It hurts, it's painful, but I enjoy it anyway.

And lol yeah I agree, I don't want fish or hamster ornaments or banana ornaments. In fact, I only own 4 ornaments on my main hero. And just one ornament for Valkyrie. Of course I have a few ornaments in mind for other heroes but I'm taking it very slowly. Steel is painful to spend in this game.

You're absolutely right. The higher you rep up, the more intricate aesthetics you unlock and equip. It's the biggest reason why I'm still leveling up my main. And yeah, definitely a lot better to showcase those off, than some kid buying all the outfits with daddy's money. Completely agree with you here. It's what's essentially "immersion-breaking", as I would call it, in this game. You grind hard enough for the Steel, yet some random kid can just hop on, throw like $200 and get all the new shinies in one day. The next day you're seeing so many newbies at like rep2-3 wearing the most expensive outfits, and acting (and fighting) like complete ******s. It just breaks the immersion for me.

They're still a very small problem, however, compared to what the recent meme flood is doing to this game. Memey executions, emotes, gay rainbow effects.... what's next? is this the For Honor I initially bought? and it only further encourages people to go buy those things because, well, memes. Can't beat memes.

My two biggest gripes with this game, are the unfair grinding system (topped with the RNGfestation), and the colossal design issues pertaining to customization (recycles ahoy). Had it not been for these two, I'd actually feel much calmer about a lot of things.

The recent Den didn't help either. I saw more recycles. More spikes. More gold trim. And oh. More "buy this bundle at 30,000 Steel, limited time only". It feels like, when it comes to these issues, the helltrain which For Honor is riding, won't stop anytime soon. They will continue with this model until the playerbase eventually explodes in outrage at all these recycles which you're being charged for again and again and again. Moar content, moar inventory clutter, less inventory space, less Steel gained, makes sense right.

I'm sorry. I'm starting to slide into ramblings. I just can't help it, venting in a constructive thread is the only way I can actually feel... "helpful". Or knowledgeable. On top of being, you know, ignored by the representatives when it comes to threads like this one, I just feel like a meaningless ant, every time I watch a Den. Consider these people who show up in the Dens. Just consider their jobs and what they do.

- Roman Campos Oriola - Creative Director
- Bio Adam Granger - Lead Designer
- Damien Kieken - Game Director
- Stephane Cardin - Senior Producer
- Luc Duchaine - Brand Director

Me - some random guy playing For Honor at his home halfway across the globe. Ranting on a... public forum.

I'll eventually give up. In what essence can I hold these threads, ideas and suggestions to some actual meaning? I'm a nobody writing journals which nobody will read anyway.

Don't get me wrong; I deeply appreciate you reading through and assimilating the message I'm trying to communicate. It really means a lot. Should you ever write some big-arse text full of ideas, you can be sure I'll be there, reading and interacting. I at least owe you that. Just as I owe every other user who came on here and checked my thread. I know it's worded constructively and with meticulous detail, but it's actually a rant.

A professional rant.

JadeBosson.
02-16-2018, 02:02 AM
Change Look: Should cost between 10 and 50 Steel depending on gear tier, and between 150 and 1000 Salvage depending on gear tier.

Faction Loyalty Bonus. Throughout a season, if you remained true to your Faction and never switched, you get added bonuses when the season ends, after 4 months. 10,000 Steel, two special crates, and 5,000 Salvage. This reward stacks with the season rewards if your Faction won 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place. You also get a troop deployment boost for the first campaign of the next season.

Tribute: For Tribute, it should be based on how much teamwork you've done. Calculating renown, takedowns, claims, and blocks all at once. Each having a percentage in the calculation.

Refine Gear: The new 'Refine Gear' option coming in S5 should cost 750 Steel and 750 Salvage on armor pieces, and 1,000 Steel and 1,000 Salvage on weapon pieces. Refinement nets a +1% boost across the board on any positive stat, and a +3% improvement on any negative stat. If you wield a fully refined weapon (3 pieces), you may equip a weapon effect. If you wear fully refined armor (3 pieces), you may choose a faint, non-intrusive 'aura' which remains active even during movement and combat. This aura follows the same pattern as whichever effect you have equipped under "idle". This aura also can be augmented based on your rank (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond).

Love all these any the colors lol

bob333e
02-16-2018, 02:04 AM
Change Look: Should cost between 10 and 50 Steel depending on gear tier, and between 150 and 1000 Salvage depending on gear tier.

Faction Loyalty Bonus. Throughout a season, if you remained true to your Faction and never switched, you get added bonuses when the season ends, after 4 months. 10,000 Steel, two special crates, and 5,000 Salvage. This reward stacks with the season rewards if your Faction won 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place. You also get a troop deployment boost for the first campaign of the next season.

Tribute: For Tribute, it should be based on how much teamwork you've done. Calculating renown, takedowns, claims, and blocks all at once. Each having a percentage in the calculation.

Refine Gear: The new 'Refine Gear' option coming in S5 should cost 750 Steel and 750 Salvage on armor pieces, and 1,000 Steel and 1,000 Salvage on weapon pieces. Refinement nets a +1% boost across the board on any positive stat, and a +3% improvement on any negative stat. If you wield a fully refined weapon (3 pieces), you may equip a weapon effect. If you wear fully refined armor (3 pieces), you may choose a faint, non-intrusive 'aura' which remains active even during movement and combat. This aura follows the same pattern as whichever effect you have equipped under "idle". This aura also can be augmented based on your rank (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond).

Love all these any the colors lol

Hey, thanks for checking out my thread! it's always warm-felt when others take their time to read through.

Good to know these proposed changes are resonating well with most. ^^

LordDarkMoth
02-16-2018, 04:13 AM
I'm gonna say I don't feel bottlenecks on the xp right now. I have been playing about 1-2 hours a day with a maybe a month of no play since launch, so semi casual semi dedicated player here. I'm in the mid 70s rank wise and I play all characters (all of them range between renown 3 and 8 on my account ) so I never have a problem finishing or needing to skip an order which is probably why I don't feel bottle necked. All in all I'm happy with the xp progression. So if I am a mid tier average player, which I feel I am, let's consider your XP and steel economy. Knowing full well that this is just based on my stats which is a shot in the dark.

Looking at your break down if I have a pretty good match I will get 500 ish steel and over 1k xp for a dominion. XP wise that is too much considering that means 2 good matches for a level up in the higher teens. That is too fast. For me it usually take 3 good wins to game a level right now which seems fair and your equation causes a 33% increase in that rate about. Taking it further if you consider max rank on all characters which is the end of xp progression, 21 levels per renown rank. 1200xp+ on a good match means 1 match per level for the first 10, 1.5 for the next 5 levels 7ish matches, and 2 each for the last 6 so 12 ish, that is 29 maybe 30 matches a renown, which means 150 good matches to max a char, and 2700 good matches(without orders) to max out every character. Now I play a couple hours each night and is easily complete 15 match orders
And then some in that time mostly playing dominion. Say I have 5 good matches (by the mentioned standards) which is kinda average night for me and I complete 3 1000+xp orders during those matches. With out counting the xp from my average to low matches that is 300 days of play to max out every char, no xp boost from champion status. 10 months and an average player maxes out every char(remember that most people don't play every char), kinda cheapens the whole thing in my opinion . So to sum it up so wise, no I don't think we should change a thing.

Steel wise, I agree a little more that the end of match steel should go up or down based on contribution, but I think it should be 100 for best game ever and 30 for some ago farmer punching a wall. Of you got 500 for a good match that would mess with the economy way too much even with the price changes you mentioned. Especially if you got steel from breaking down and salvage crates.

The price changes you mentioned on upgrading equipment I did like and o think changing the look should be as cheap as you mentioned as well, just because it makes the game less about which player has the most steel to make their stats right. So yes stay altering stuff should be cheap and easy for all players. Cosmetics like effects executes etc. should be more expensive to show your dedication to a specific char.

bob333e
02-16-2018, 07:36 PM
<snip>

Thanks for checking out my thread, and thanks for your beautifully detailed feedback! Much appreciated man.

I'll admit, I didn't go through all the calculations you've just presented, I simply did a round-up rough estimate of what you actually deserve (or I think you deserve) for your individual performance in a match.

It's not a shot in the dark; it's a valid point. And you're right. With what I've presented in my original post, people are likely to, you know, max nearly everything by 1 year of playing. Which, I feel, hits right on the nail of the issue itself and how I intended to approach it.

Considering most RPG (and also open-world) games I've played and finished (and re-played), and considering they're usually much bigger than For Honor, I've been able to max out a lot of things without even reaching 1 year of playtime.

For Honor, for all intents and purposes, is an RPG-oriented multiplayer-based fighting game. The fact that it's RPG-oriented, should stabilize its sellpoint as "a game with a lot of replay value". Which, I feel does not ring a bell with For Honor, in its current condition.

What's For Honor's replay value? how many times did you redo the Story Mode? how much are you willing to redo hero progress from scratch on a separate account or platform? You most likely won't.

You played the Story Mode to get the basics down and unlock some unlockables and some trophies/achievements. That's it. You won't touch it again, unless maybe to do it on Realistic, which is also because of unlockables/trophies/achievements.

You level up the heroes to unlock the customizations, reach legendary gear, max out your gear, etc. You wouldn't even think of redoing all of that again.

What does that leave you with? PvP. PvP, is not the core replay value of any game whatsoever. PvP is... well, PvP. For Honor is a medieval COD or CS:GO. There's nothing in it but PvP and aesthetic customizations / skins / effects.

How do you justify needing at least one full year, to max out, like, 3 heroes out of 18, when the ultimate intent for all this grind, is.... PvP? Like, what's the goal? You end up getting bored boasting about outfit A or effect B to random players at some point. Unless you're a Youtube content creator, you're not making much out of this grinding. You're grinding for 1-2 years, to show off some colors and effects and engravings in PvP. See how bonkers that sounds?

To keep this rotary wheel alive, Ubisoft keeps adding seasonal content and weekly content, worth Steel in the five figures. To keep you incentivized about farming Steel for a new effect or new outfit. To keep the wheel going. You never make enough Steel to actually catch up with everything they dish out every so often, hence the intent of shoving microtransactions up your grill. That's if you want to avoid getting bored of the same stuff you've had equipped for so long and want new shinies.

This isn't replay value; this is the same what CS:GO is doing. Charge money for aesthetics, purely for PvP. There's nothing else to do.

It is because of this intent of charging money, that they will not (or are likely not to) modify the infrastructure of the reward system. It is because they fear players will max out everything too early, as you've stated; and then players will want new content at a much faster rate, because they'll be able to acquire new shinies at a much faster rate. And Ubisoft simply cannot work like this. It's a detriment to them and their production agenda.

Which hits the nail in the coffin: instead of giving For Honor a replay value outside PvP, and making both sides happy, they re-routed this detriment towards the playerbase. The playerbase has nothing to do other than PvP, and it's technically inhumanly impossible to max out everything in this game. It pours liquor over the wound, then hastily wraps it in cotton, instead of, you know... healing the wound. Because pouring liquor over it and bandaiding it was much easier for them. No surgery required.

It then all boils down to the individual player, both veteran and casual, how they're trying to enjoy this game and pull something out of it for their own timesake. The average player will log in because must do orders and must do event, do some PvP, turn back off. It's become a dead train. No replay value, no real "essence" that you feel you have actually delved inside a digital world and immersed yourself in an otherwordly experience, as is what RPG-oriented games should present themselves with.

Inadvertedly, this reward system they've finally settled upon, becomes a punishment, not a reward.

In the videogaming industry and game design field, goes the saying, "it's better to encourage the behavior you want, than discourage the behavior you don't want". Ubisoft went straight with the latter; discouraging you from maxing things out at a decent RPG-esque pace. And then flipped it overboard, encouraging you to buy microtransactions, which is, to them, the behavior they want.

I'm by no means claiming to be a pro game designer; but when a game places its own developer in focus rather than the actual playerbase and the everyday consumer, something's clearly wrong. Hence my ranting thread.

I hope this text made some sense. :p and yes. All of Change Look and gear upgrades must be dirt-cheap. Effects and executions and emotes should be locked at specific Steel ranges; regardless of how much the player can spend.

Thanks for reading through; and I hope I was able to draw more common ground between your perspective and mine.

LordDarkMoth
02-17-2018, 05:39 PM
I think the first mistake you are making is trying to cram For honor into an RPG mold when it was clearly made as a fighting game. A game type which revolves around PVP. To say that PvP does not count as a viable core game mode or motivation to play shows you may not understand how other people have fun outside of your own scope.

For honor is a fighting game with unlockables as a reward for dedication to a specific kit. It's identity as a fighting game gets muddled when the stats become involved(which is why so many players wish stats would disappear). Even then tho the stats of an item originally was a trade off to augment the extremes of your kit rather than "level up" as an RPG would treat stats, int he current loot system that gets voided out with higher levels of loot giving stats that don't balance buff to handicap.

Also as a fighting game it is a-typical to be a player who tries to master every kit (or in this game unlocking everything). So making the argument that the game is broken because it would take too much time to unlock everything is misunderstanding not just the nature of this game but the nature of this genre.

Lastly, yes video game teams make games to make money. They need money to support their families and buy ramen. You can't place an expectancy on game makers to create a living game that develops over time to not have some kind of continuous revenue generator of some kind. It's essentially getting perturbed that these people won't work for free.

I get that you have a lot of passion and like to think of game mechanics, im in the same boat. It's good that you do. I would suggest taking that passion out of converting an already made game into something else, and putting it into learning some skills and develop your own games. Unity and Blender are free. If you took your passion to something like that instead of ranting you might become a pro-game designer eventually, after some work.

bob333e
02-18-2018, 03:51 AM
I think the first mistake you are making is trying to cram For honor into an RPG mold when it was clearly made as a fighting game. A game type which revolves around PVP. To say that PvP does not count as a viable core game mode or motivation to play shows you may not understand how other people have fun outside of your own scope.

For honor is a fighting game with unlockables as a reward for dedication to a specific kit. It's identity as a fighting game gets muddled when the stats become involved(which is why so many players wish stats would disappear). Even then tho the stats of an item originally was a trade off to augment the extremes of your kit rather than "level up" as an RPG would treat stats, int he current loot system that gets voided out with higher levels of loot giving stats that don't balance buff to handicap.

Also as a fighting game it is a-typical to be a player who tries to master every kit (or in this game unlocking everything). So making the argument that the game is broken because it would take too much time to unlock everything is misunderstanding not just the nature of this game but the nature of this genre.

Lastly, yes video game teams make games to make money. They need money to support their families and buy ramen. You can't place an expectancy on game makers to create a living game that develops over time to not have some kind of continuous revenue generator of some kind. It's essentially getting perturbed that these people won't work for free.

I get that you have a lot of passion and like to think of game mechanics, im in the same boat. It's good that you do. I would suggest taking that passion out of converting an already made game into something else, and putting it into learning some skills and develop your own games. Unity and Blender are free. If you took your passion to something like that instead of ranting you might become a pro-game designer eventually, after some work.

As expected, you completely missed the mark, and went haywire in assumptions and prejudice.

Don't worry, had a feeling you would understand nothing of what I typed above. You and I are on two different levels. You have your opinion and I have mine, and you see things from your perspective and I see things from mine. We don't have to agree. And this is perfectly fine.

Also, public forums exist for bug reports, complaints, rants, feedback, and general discussions and suggestions. So I don't see what I'm doing wrong here.

I'm not a fan of derogatory statements, so let us avoid resorting to that type of posting, because it will serve absolutely nothing. But do yourself a favor, and don't rewrite something like that last paragraph anywhere else on this forum. The inability to hold a discussion where the two engaged ends are disparate in opinion, and the resorting to passive-aggressiveness and the discrediting of someone's opinion solely because of stature, are good ways to get your posts reported and get yourself banned.

You're free to agree or disagree. You don't like this thread, kindly knock yourself out. Unsubscribe from it so you don't receive notifications of new posts. I will not entertain this any further.

LordDarkMoth
02-18-2018, 05:11 AM
Sorry, I honestly didn't mean to offend, I was sharing my thoughts on what For Honor is as a game. My last paragraph was not meant to be passive aggressive. I read your break down and thoughts and honeslty thought we could see cool games come from you if you tried your hand at it. I honestly apologize if it came across as if i was looking down on your opinion in anyway.