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View Full Version : CGB - regain footing



Kelson27
02-05-2018, 03:12 AM
I know Iíll probably receive some ďgit gudĒ for this, but a couple tactics of the game seem a bit cheap and overly rewarding for the effort needed to put in. Ledging from a simple gb is essentially a ohk not worthy of the payoff imo.

What do you guys think about some sort of saving grace mechanic, either a mashing of buttons or some sort of scramble that stops your highly trained warrior from fumbling their footing for what seems to be a good couple metres to their doom? Is CGB enough of a punish for a serial ledger attempt?

bob333e
02-05-2018, 12:40 PM
Instead of button mashing upon being thrown, I'd go with a 'showdown' camera angle where the two heroes lock into each other, crossing weapons, pressing against each other to see whether the defender's guard (the one who ate the GB) will get broken. Upon successfully countering the GB, both players are reset to neutral, with the aggressor having spent more stamina than the current GB attempt. The whole thing is like 2-3secs.

What this does is enable a dynamic countering mechanic to GB, instead of the simple, mashable, spammable current CGB model which allows the aggressor to spam GB all he wants until he lands one. Granted, quick lights can rule over a GB attempt, but in a lot of cases even a quick light won't save you, when you're just unlucky.

However, there are two concerns with both our suggestions.

First, the upcoming parry changes are already limiting free GBs more, so we cannot go full-board limitation on the GB all at once, without first testing the waters and seeing how the new parry changes play out. They'll probably be almost entirely positive, but pretty sure there's gonna be some issues with some heroes. At least until all 12 reworks are handed out.

Second, GB is essentially a safe-to-throw grab by design. Its only 'penalty' is costing some stamina. To modify how GB is handled as a whole in the game, you'll need to redesign the mechanic from the ground up.

Jazz117Volkov
02-05-2018, 01:07 PM
If I recall correctly, mashing the dash button can save you from a ledge if you're not overly close.

Guardbreak spam isn't typically an issue, but sometimes players feel the need to spam it, particularly if they are playing a slow character and you're playing a fast one, because there aren't always many good offensive options. Especially if you've already demonstrated your dexterity by dodging or countering their best moves. Generally in close proximity the faster attacks will overpower 95% of everything the slower guy has. Except for guardbreak (unless you're clairvoyant). Guardbreak being a "safe" move leaves it as the only alternative to sitting and waiting.

However, if we are to consider ways to dissuade guardbreak spam, what I'd suggest is a mild stun on the attacker after a successful counter guardbreak: enough to land a light (600 ms). This would introduce another issue though, and that is countered guardbreaks that should have been guaranteed. There's always that dash guardbreak that lands three frames too late and you get CGB'd. Rewarding the defender with a light attack over a handful of frames would be very irritating, so what I would suggest is a cooldown. (Think of Shugoki's super armour.) Every time you become vulnerable to guardbreaks (dashing, attack recoveries, etc.) you lose your beefed up counter for a couple of seconds.

Kelson27
02-06-2018, 03:56 AM
Iím not really looking into a complete redesign for gb - I think for the most part itís doing its job pretty well in actual battle and that would also be a lot of work. More from the side of risk vs reward - pulling off a guard break is probably one of the easiest moves in the game and results in an instant win - given itís an instant win is CGB really enough in return? In comparison The art of feinting and baiting to get a light or heavy in sometimes feels like way more effort and the outcome is much less significant, that seems slightly off to me.

In terms of a mechanic Iím more talking about a last minute scramble at the cliffs edge, hit dodge just as your going over to pull yourself back in or something or when I say mashing I mean the more you manage to hit buttons once youíve been thrown, the less distance you stumble.

The current dodge working at the cliffs edge is probably more you werenít going over in the first place, you just managed to dodge after you completed your stumbling. If we went all out unfathomable Iíd like to see peacekeeper dig the blades into a raiders back when the raider gets a successful throw in, or hold x to hang on for dear life and bring them with you 😋 you just sit there while they decide what your fate will be! But crazy changes aside, itís probably the one thing I feel you canít outplay - taking a slow, five step stumble off the edge of a cliff.

Especially as some of the more nimble characters, obviously it would need to be even across the board but a backflipping ninja walking to certain doom for a very long distance doesnít feel right to me.