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View Full Version : Team Breaking.......Feats



BlowHard74728
02-04-2018, 02:31 PM
I know this has been brought up before....but the devs haven't really addressed it. Feats. I bought this game to play for honor not bomberman. Seeing as how i dont see them ever being taken out at least work over them. It gets kinda ridiculous to have to deal with a catapult killing me or sharpen blades when our team is breaking. And pk's last laugh is seriously way too op. Just so you know im not biased i play as her. If you dont execute her and she dies boom intant kill, she drops a bomb and kills you and if youre right in the middle of it you have no time at all to get out of the blast zone. Its honest to god a cheap kill. Why is she being rewarded for dying? And then theres the lawbringers 3 bombs with a short cooldown. Kind of sad that he can throw two bombs at the same opponent in one fight. And of the cheapest of all sharpen blades (which i have no comment on) this is a game of skill not who brought the biggest bomb or more arrows to the battlefield.

BTTrinity
02-04-2018, 03:07 PM
Honestly, Sharpened Blades is the one I dont have a problem with anymore. (Whenever I see someone with it active, I will turtle until its gone) and very rarely get blindsided by it though, I think Sharpened Blades should definitely be a tier 4 feat so you cant stack it with Fear Itself.

I agree with everything else, Catapult, fireflask and every other AoE and Arrow that deals 50% of your health at least, needs to be removed. We come here to fight, not to get insta gibbed by ranged attacks that completely negate the concept of the game.

swiss_soldier_1
02-04-2018, 03:25 PM
agreed, some feats are way too powerful, but they do add another dimension to the game. the devs could make it so that if the enemy team is breaking you cannot use your feats, or maybe just the level 3 and 4 feats. because honestly the worst is dying by a catapult while you are managing to survive and you might turn the match around, I don't really care of dying by a catapult in the middle of the match (actually well done to him to already have it unlocked)

Hormly
02-04-2018, 04:35 PM
Step 1) rework feats to give a slight edge, rather than being extremely powerful

Step 2) give them to the losing team rather than the winning

The core of this game is its combat, feats do nothing more than ruin the combat for both teams

The_B0G_
02-04-2018, 05:52 PM
Lol I actually shut this game off today because I kept getting killed by feats. 2v1 and 3v1 and I have people throwing bombs and setting traps, dropping catapults on me while fending off multiple people already.

The damage and effects on all of these feats need to be brought way down. Shamans trap spam is just as bad as lawbringers grenade spam.

I still think giving the feats full friendly fire damage would help a lot but no one seems to want that either.

Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 06:06 PM
tbh I feel like feats wouldn't feel so bad if everyone started with them unlocked.
As is feats even in a tame state just snowball and make things harder for the losing team.
I can only think the reason they don't start unlocked is to force people to go capture and defend points.

Tundra 793
02-04-2018, 07:00 PM
tbh I feel like feats wouldn't feel so bad if everyone started with them unlocked.


Come on man, the first 15 seconds of any game would be 4 catapults bombarding one team, and the other setting half the map on fire. Cluster**** wouldn't begin to describe the mayhem.
A team of Bombringers would be walking artillery barrages.

BTTrinity and Hormly are right, we play For Honor to fight, not blow people up. The Feats need to be taken down in effect.

Sure, a lot of the Feats sound fun and work on paper, but it's like the developers haven't really considered the compounded effect they bring to 4v4 fights. Nail trap that does damage and apply bleed? Strong sure, but people can still fight a Shaman with those odds. Oh wait there was a Raider's Bear Trap. Oh here comes a bomb. Add in a javelin or throwing axe for good measure.
It can get really messy, really fast.


My idea/hopes for reworking the Feats, is to just make the level 1, 2 and 3 Feats, possibly even the 4th, Passives. Abilities that can only aid your particular playstyle, but not let you win fights you clearly should have lost.
Feats like Body Count, Bounty Hunter, Fast Recovery, Stealth, all of these, just make them more widely available to heroes, and distribute them across all the Feat levels.

The_B0G_
02-04-2018, 07:38 PM
Come on man, the first 15 seconds of any game would be 4 catapults bombarding one team, and the other setting half the map on fire. Cluster**** wouldn't begin to describe the mayhem.
A team of Bombringers would be walking artillery barrages.

BTTrinity and Hormly are right, we play For Honor to fight, not blow people up. The Feats need to be taken down in effect.

Sure, a lot of the Feats sound fun and work on paper, but it's like the developers haven't really considered the compounded effect they bring to 4v4 fights. Nail trap that does damage and apply bleed? Strong sure, but people can still fight a Shaman with those odds. Oh wait there was a Raider's Bear Trap. Oh here comes a bomb. Add in a javelin or throwing axe for good measure.
It can get really messy, really fast.


My idea/hopes for reworking the Feats, is to just make the level 1, 2 and 3 Feats, possibly even the 4th, Passives. Abilities that can only aid your particular playstyle, but not let you win fights you clearly should have lost.
Feats like Body Count, Bounty Hunter, Fast Recovery, Stealth, all of these, just make them more widely available to heroes, and distribute them across all the Feat levels.

Agreed. Feats should be passive.

Tyrjo
02-04-2018, 07:49 PM
As of late I've seen many people use Catapult, Arrow Storm and Spear Storm inside. Did people find out some glitch to be able to do it?

CandleInTheDark
02-04-2018, 08:07 PM
I am kind of torn on this, on the one hand, i don't really like feats at all. On the other, if we are going to have them then I think we need to preserve the heroes' individuality, whether it is crossbows or throwing axes or spear storms or lawbringer's shares in acme tnt (let's see how many of you are old enough to get that reference without google), it would be a shame to lose that.

I would do three things,I would make passive feats more attractive, so small buffs on those, I would make trap and damaging feats less attractive,so small nerfs, and I would make AOE mean AOE,allies should be taking at least half of the damage rather than be able to go through a catapult blast virtually unscathed.

The latter likely will lead to griefers, I had someone zone attacking me in tribute to stop my putting a tribute down despite the fact that tribute drop on friendly fire is patched out, and ubi need to be on top of any reports that are sent over that, but I do agree some balance is needed, I just don't want to see them gutted.

S0Mi_xD
02-04-2018, 08:09 PM
Let's balance all feat the way Berzerker feat was "balanced" :'D ....
As an example Sharpened Blades.
Now it causes no bleed, but if you hit an enemy with it, it makes a fart sound.

Tundra 793
02-04-2018, 10:23 PM
Now it causes no bleed, but if you hit an enemy with it, it makes a fart sound.

I fully support this concept.

Whenever a Catapult is launched, game now features audible warning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXTJlH7g0tw

S0Mi_xD
02-04-2018, 10:53 PM
I fully support this concept.

Whenever a Catapult is launched, game now features audible warning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXTJlH7g0tw

Haha ^^ suppot this :D

Kelson27
02-05-2018, 12:37 AM
I think some of the feats could definitely use some tweaking as the scale of use goes from completely pointless to entirely destructive.

Iím ok with a huge aoe that does massive damage, but I think cheap kills happen all too easily in this game (ledge spammers included lb on a bridge Iím looking at you, but Iíll stay on topic).

Catapult, absolutely ok with the damage. However, how long does it take to actually recalibrate a catapult to aim? And how decent is that accuracy? I think it should have a varying degree of accuracy and a much longer wind up, maybe lose the red warning circle to compensate and have a rather loud audible que instead, with = damage friendly fire. That way itís more of a fight breaker where everyone should gtfo and if you are tagged by it, rightfully so.

Atm those things have quicker response time and accuracy than a scud missile.

Vilerin
02-05-2018, 01:59 AM
A year and ballance is still on pre beta level...

mrmistark
02-05-2018, 05:40 AM
The biggest problem with feats:

They are a ďWIN MOREĒ mechanic. Seriously though, the skill you need to be able to pull off getting feat 4 in an a game balanced to the players skill is very difficult, it goes back and forth, however, if your teammates suck or are good and youíre either losing or trampling hard, which often is the case, then itís most usually a wrap. Because even if you amount an awesome wave of true fighting talent, youíll have to deal with a whole team worth of feats.

What I would love to see is kind of the idea above somewhere where all feats are passive, or even if itís the small damaging feats like crossbow or javelin being a one use thing, would also be fine with me. Unlock all feats from the beginning, but make it a choose 3, eliminate the 4th feat, and the feats you chose are just an added personalized thing like gear stat where you level your character to get them rather than earning them in game. Some being body count, conqueror, all the small buff ones, ect.

Tyrjo
02-05-2018, 08:47 AM
The biggest problem with feats:

They are a “WIN MORE” mechanic. .

Yep, and not to mention, when you join in progress and the other team already unlocked their first two feats. Unlocking the other two in a minute or two, while you have nothing.

Armosias
02-05-2018, 01:36 PM
I am kind of torn on this, on the one hand, i don't really like feats at all. On the other, if we are going to have them then I think we need to preserve the heroes' individuality, whether it is crossbows or throwing axes or spear storms or lawbringer's shares in acme tnt (let's see how many of you are old enough to get that reference without google), it would be a shame to lose that.

I would do three things,I would make passive feats more attractive, so small buffs on those, I would make trap and damaging feats less attractive,so small nerfs, and I would make AOE mean AOE,allies should be taking at least half of the damage rather than be able to go through a catapult blast virtually unscathed.

The latter likely will lead to griefers, I had someone zone attacking me in tribute to stop my putting a tribute down despite the fact that tribute drop on friendly fire is patched out, and ubi need to be on top of any reports that are sent over that, but I do agree some balance is needed, I just don't want to see them gutted.
I wonder if some upcoming hero will throw some anvils at their enemies. Also I'd like more transparency on the feats' effects, darn I've got 30 hours of LB gameplay and I still don't know what does rightous deflection do. I mean you should be able to display numbers.


Yep, and not to mention, when you join in progress and the other team already unlocked their first two feats. Unlocking the other two in a minute or two, while you have nothing.
Upon joining a game in progress you will have leveled renown but I don't know which data they use to do so.

Anarnam
02-05-2018, 02:30 PM
I concur. Catapult is way to strong. Much stronger than fireflask however. You may escape fire quickly and keep goin, but catapult just one shots you.

The concept is great though.

Knight_Raime
02-05-2018, 04:27 PM
Come on man, the first 15 seconds of any game would be 4 catapults bombarding one team, and the other setting half the map on fire. Cluster**** wouldn't begin to describe the mayhem.
A team of Bombringers would be walking artillery barrages.

BTTrinity and Hormly are right, we play For Honor to fight, not blow people up. The Feats need to be taken down in effect.

Sure, a lot of the Feats sound fun and work on paper, but it's like the developers haven't really considered the compounded effect they bring to 4v4 fights. Nail trap that does damage and apply bleed? Strong sure, but people can still fight a Shaman with those odds. Oh wait there was a Raider's Bear Trap. Oh here comes a bomb. Add in a javelin or throwing axe for good measure.
It can get really messy, really fast.


My idea/hopes for reworking the Feats, is to just make the level 1, 2 and 3 Feats, possibly even the 4th, Passives. Abilities that can only aid your particular playstyle, but not let you win fights you clearly should have lost.
Feats like Body Count, Bounty Hunter, Fast Recovery, Stealth, all of these, just make them more widely available to heroes, and distribute them across all the Feat levels.

Kind of the point of my suggestions. they would be passives. not things you unlock mid match. the bigger things like traps and catapults would be pick ups on the map.

PDXGorechild
02-05-2018, 04:58 PM
I always liked playing Warlord due to his ability to have a full set of passive feats. I also feel like the game should be more based around these, which would allow you to fine tune your character to your play style like you do with your gear currently.

Feats should fall into one of four categories:

1. Passive bonuses to your own character.
2. Traps that damage and snare one enemy temporarily, or stun groups of enemies.
3. Projectiles that do moderate damage to a single enemy or low damage to numerous enemies or have some kind of stunning effect.
4. Area of effect bonuses/debuffs (support your team feats - these are underused at the moment)

In that order. You could have all different passive bonuses in slot 1 or alternatively one feat of each type per tier.

No more catapult, fire flask, arrow storm, javelin storm or nail bomb.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 05:14 PM
I always liked playing Warlord due to his ability to have a full set of passive feats. I also feel like the game should be more based around these, which would allow you to fine tune your character to your play style like you do with your gear currently.

Feats should fall into one of four categories:

1. Passive bonuses to your own character.
2. Traps that damage and snare one enemy temporarily, or stun groups of enemies.
3. Projectiles that do moderate damage to a single enemy or low damage to numerous enemies or have some kind of stunning effect.
4. Area of effect bonuses/debuffs (support your team feats - these are underused at the moment)

In that order. You could have all different passive bonuses in slot 1 or alternatively one feat of each type per tier.

No more catapult, fire flask, arrow storm, javelin storm or nail bomb.

This sounds good. And yeah I agree, more feats need to be passive, and if anything, more feats need to be team-centric buffs, rather than individual buffs. Also, each hero should have a healing feat. I find it unfair that some can pop estus flask (literally) while others can't.

Feats need to focus on strategy, teamplay, and passive buffs that pertain to the characterization of each hero (like Stealth on Shinobi/PK).

AoE bombs/arrows/fire need to go. All of them.

The_B0G_
02-05-2018, 05:28 PM
I agree with both of your suggestions, directed damage feats should target indivuals only. Get rid of all AoE damage feats.

PDXGorechild
02-05-2018, 05:31 PM
This sounds good. And yeah I agree, more feats need to be passive, and if anything, more feats need to be team-centric buffs, rather than individual buffs. Also, each hero should have a healing feat. I find it unfair that some can pop estus flask (literally) while others can't.

Feats need to focus on strategy, teamplay, and passive buffs that pertain to the characterization of each hero (like Stealth on Shinobi/PK).

AoE bombs/arrows/fire need to go. All of them.

Ah yeah, totally forgot about healing feats. I'd sooner see them all removed to be honest. But if they are to be left in it should be moderate healing at most and every class should have access to it, as you say.

Imagine the Synergy of having your whole team together, everyones banners up, passive bonuses galore, going head to head with another team whilst both breaking... The fights would be so epic. Far better than playing dodge the red circles.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 05:44 PM
Ah yeah, totally forgot about healing feats. I'd sooner see them all removed to be honest. But if they are to be left in it should be moderate healing at most and every class should have access to it, as you say.

Imagine the Synergy of having your whole team together, everyones banners up, passive bonuses galore, going head to head with another team whilst both breaking... The fights would be so epic. Far better than playing dodge the red circles.

Yeah, a Second Wind should at most heal 2 bars, and should need a 3-minute cooldown (enough to last a fight or two without spamming heals).

Right?? imagine in Dominion, a team setting bear traps, a Doom Banner and a Healing Banner, blocking your access to a zone, and one guy guarding the zone provided you got through, you'll still have to deal with the Doom Banner; while the others are off to other zones to capture them, an assassin sporting Stealth, with a longbow/kunai ready, or smoke bomb, for tactical retreats should he get outnumbered. He would then beacon for help mid-way to another zone, meet with a teammate who throws a Fiat Lux and pops Juggernaut to hold off the enemy, while the assassin runs back to the now-deserted zone, meets with another teammate who then plants a trap to block the way... if only I ever witnessed such a match :')

Can't speak much for Tribute, I mostly do PvAI, and in the few PvP Tributes I've done, it's often about planting two offerings then camping near the shrines for the rest of the match. Also I remember a match where the other team carried all three offerings near their shrines, left them there on the ground, not planting them to avoid the extended respawn penalty, kept hitting anyone who tried to pick them, and near the end of the match they would pick them up and plant all three for a gg ez.

Tribute needs an overhaul, and Dominion needs to be replaced with an actual 8v8 Siege Mode which also includes zone captures.

DoctorMcBatman
02-05-2018, 05:58 PM
The simple solution to this is to have a permanent hardcore mode. You know, like pretty much every other triple AAA MP combat focused game. Despite asking for this quite often, we are told "FH has no plans for permanent realistic/hardcore, but here are Tribute and ranked modes you never asked for."

What I keep coming back to in many threads is: does this game want to be a serious, skill based fighting game? It doesn't seem like it.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 06:07 PM
The simple solution to this is to have a permanent hardcore mode. You know, like pretty much every other triple AAA MP combat focused game. Despite asking for this quite often, we are told "FH has no plans for permanent realistic/hardcore, but here are Tribute and ranked modes you never asked for."

What I keep coming back to in many threads is: does this game want to be a serious, skill based fighting game? It doesn't seem like it.

Given the state of fast attacks, unblockables, grabs, and feints/softfeints, as well as needing indicators when getting ganked, a realistic 4v4 becomes a personal challenge purely for fun; it should never be made into a norm for everyone. It has little to do with how skilled you are in combat. Indicators are for readability. Removing them is a handicap for fun purposes, but still a handicap. It's like playing Tekken with one hand.

Realistic Tribute was a temp event, pretty sure no one would want that as permanent. Tribute is more fit for Ranked Objective than Dominion because Tribute requires more individual effort than Dominion, effectively measuring your skillset in team fights in general.

It is a skill-based fighting game, and for this reason, AoE feats are out-of-place. It's not the indicators.

DoctorMcBatman
02-05-2018, 07:34 PM
Given the state of fast attacks, unblockables, grabs, and feints/softfeints, as well as needing indicators when getting ganked, a realistic 4v4 becomes a personal challenge purely for fun; it should never be made into a norm for everyone. It has little to do with how skilled you are in combat. Indicators are for readability. Removing them is a handicap for fun purposes, but still a handicap. It's like playing Tekken with one hand.

Realistic Tribute was a temp event, pretty sure no one would want that as permanent. Tribute is more fit for Ranked Objective than Dominion because Tribute requires more individual effort than Dominion, effectively measuring your skillset in team fights in general.

It is a skill-based fighting game, and for this reason, AoE feats are out-of-place. It's not the indicators.

A permanent hardcore mode would look different from the realistic events we've gotten. This is all conjecture, as we can spend hours thought-building different hardcore modes that all do subscribe to some sort of hardcore gameplay. My point is, there is a combination of hardcore attributes that players mostly agree they would like: no feats and no gear score mainly.

I'd also vote for everyone having a equal/small Throw distance, but I'm in the minority on that one. I agree indicators should stay for a HC mode, though I did enjoy playing without them.

CandleInTheDark
02-05-2018, 07:42 PM
My point is, there is a combination of hardcore attributes that players mostly agree they would like: no feats and no gear score mainly.

Certainly would have my vote, it's why I am annoyed that I don't feel I can play brawl because of how toxic it gets from players on all sides of that mess. I think that this far in we need to keep the feats we have and tune them rather than say similar passives for everyone because that reflects on each character's individual style and a year in is a bit late to change that, but if there were one without them, boosts and gear score then I would be spending all my time there.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 07:53 PM
A permanent hardcore mode would look different from the realistic events we've gotten. This is all conjecture, as we can spend hours thought-building different hardcore modes that all do subscribe to some sort of hardcore gameplay. My point is, there is a combination of hardcore attributes that players mostly agree they would like: no feats and no gear score mainly.

I'd also vote for everyone having a equal/small Throw distance, but I'm in the minority on that one. I agree indicators should stay for a HC mode, though I did enjoy playing without them.

No gear stats and no feats is a pretty good idea, actually. It will have my vote as well. Feats, for the most part, ruin the experience; and unless they are completely reworked, keeping them in with static and lazy nerfs/buffs will only make it worse. Negating all feats would be the better solution. The same goes for gear stats. I had just commented in a different thread how most gear stats need to be revised and overhauled. It'd be probably too much of a hassle, so negating them as well would be a much easier task.