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View Full Version : Looking ahead (roster discussion)



Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 12:41 AM
So it seems the entire OG roster is going to be addressed with season 5 (or that's the goal anyway) and the revealed ones were simply the ones season 5 is launching with. No mention if other dlc heros besides highlander will be looked at after the OG guys are settled. Anyway I wanted to seperate the cast into 3 groups of heros. The over arching idea of for honor in my opinion is sort of like fencing. But you can apply pressure when the person is OOS. So with that in mind the 3 catagories are: fits the theme, needs more tools/changes, and "unhealthy". Due to lacking information on the 3 reworks I won't add them to the list. for reference these are: kensei, conq, and berzerker.

Fits the theme:
Raider
Aramusha
Nobushi
Highlander
Warlord
Orochi


Needs more tools/changes to fit the theme:
Warden
Shugoki
Valk

Unhealthy/doesn't fit theme:
Shinobi
Centurion
Shaman

I omitted gladiator because i'm unsure where to put him. He can fit the theme beautifully. But he also can be quite oppressive. So let me explain.
Raider is a good example of a hero that has a healthy kit with mix ups/kit flow. But due to the nature of said mix ups a good player can quite easily respond and shut him down. Aramusha has a beautiful flow of back and forth between pressuring and countering with blade blockade. But again due to his kit design a good player can shut him down. Hopefully you see the picture. The people in this group have mostly healthy kits for the game. Not to say they can't be tweaked to be better. But they don't need major overhauls.

The 3 heros in the second group are just too gimped to work in the theme. Warden in my opinion needs a new theme not focused on bashing. Goki is almost there but he needs a few more moves. And a rework to his armor so it requires more active play than passive play. Valk needs to be less punishable and have a new mix up or two.

The last catagory. These people are not broken per say. They just go against the grain. Like they belong in some other game. Shinobi is the only hero in the game that utilizes movement. Which breaks the game fundementally in my opinion. Centurion ignores the games basic cornerstones. blocking doesn't always mean you're safe. Can knock you down when not OOS. etc. And shaman is the only hero in the game that has an entire working kit. with an actual proper move list. I'm not saying these heros should be nerfed. But from a game design point these 3 kits themes just don't mesh with the current direction of the game. They like the rest of the cast should be tweaked as well. But they're always not going to feel right.

I also omitted pk. She's simplistic like the theme and can apply amazing pressure. But she's also incredibly strong due to how her kit is designed. I wouldn't know if she's good or bad for the game. She's basically like the last group problem wise. But she fits the theme of the game.

mrmistark
02-04-2018, 03:54 AM
As far as the theme weíre talking about, not trying to be rude, but I guess I donít understand what this has to do with the future of the roster?

The highlander is not getting a rework, however he is getting buffed damage and a helpful instant OS flow that works as a fient of Celtic curse instead of either letting it go or soft feinting.

As for the question of who I think should be getting a rework next? Well...

Characters already getting reworked:
Berserker
Kensei
Conqueror

Rework in a loose term:
Highlander
Nobushi

Characters in a good spot that donít need a rework (at least at the moment):
Raider
Glad
Shaman
Aramusha (though im of the opinion he could use a little love on his blade blockade, itís too easy to punish)

Characters that are good but could use a little something new or a small change:
Warden
Pk
Lawbringer
Centurion
Warlord
Shinobi

And the characters who, in my opinion should be next in line for reworks:
Shugoki
Valkyrie
Orochi

The problem here is if it follows the 1 per faction trend, orochi or shugoki will have to wait. Personally I think both are in a similar place. If orochi is played as a counter attacker and not an aggressor (top light spam/zone) he is actually pretty good, but against turtles he has nothing to open them. Shugoki could use something other than just light into headbutt because otherwise he works too hard for damage. His only saving grace is demons embrace in dire situations and on wall splat.

If I had to chose 1 per faction, itíd honestly have to be:
Pk (its an unpopular opinion, but I find her less worrisome then law and warden, she doesnít need much though)
Valk
Orochi

Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 02:53 PM
As far as the theme we’re talking about, not trying to be rude, but I guess I don’t understand what this has to do with the future of the roster?

The highlander is not getting a rework, however he is getting buffed damage and a helpful instant OS flow that works as a fient of Celtic curse instead of either letting it go or soft feinting.

As for the question of who I think should be getting a rework next? Well...

Characters already getting reworked:
Berserker
Kensei
Conqueror

Rework in a loose term:
Highlander
Nobushi

Characters in a good spot that don’t need a rework (at least at the moment):
Raider
Glad
Shaman
Aramusha (though im of the opinion he could use a little love on his blade blockade, it’s too easy to punish)

Characters that are good but could use a little something new or a small change:
Warden
Pk
Lawbringer
Centurion
Warlord
Shinobi

And the characters who, in my opinion should be next in line for reworks:
Shugoki
Valkyrie
Orochi

The problem here is if it follows the 1 per faction trend, orochi or shugoki will have to wait. Personally I think both are in a similar place. If orochi is played as a counter attacker and not an aggressor (top light spam/zone) he is actually pretty good, but against turtles he has nothing to open them. Shugoki could use something other than just light into headbutt because otherwise he works too hard for damage. His only saving grace is demons embrace in dire situations and on wall splat.

If I had to chose 1 per faction, it’d honestly have to be:
Pk (its an unpopular opinion, but I find her less worrisome then law and warden, she doesn’t need much though)
Valk
Orochi

I apologize. It was mostly me just rambling. But the idea was to identify the kind of game I think for honor is heading to be which was "fencer like but with moments of high intensity." And point out which heros fit that theme. Which heros need support fitting that theme better. And which heros simply don't fit the theme. The "future of the roster" is me trying to predict how changes might potentially go for the roster based on the theme of what I believe for honor to be. Sorry that wasn't very clear.

The way I understand season 5 is that they plan to address ALL OG heros in season 5. they're just launching with those specific heros. I can see why you've put both goki and valk up there. But not orochi. I can see him getting a handful of tweaks. maybe the same amount as goki or valk. But I don't think the changes would be as massive imo. but I already did a thread on him within a week.

If I could choose the next 3 to get attention it would be shugoki, warden, valk.
I believe all heros both OG and dlc should get looked at again. be it because they have always had issues. Or because of the new parry changes. or both.
As I tried to elude to I don't believe any hero beyond kensei and conq really need a "rework." Which we know to be new mocap moves. I think the rest fall under the major update pass like bushi and highlander. Except maybe like. mushu, shaman, glad they just literally need small tweaks.