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Cliff_001
02-03-2018, 06:41 PM
Since ubisoft seem to be doing three characters at a time and one per faction I think the next people to get a rework should be Warden, Valkyrie, and Orochi. All of these characters are usually seen as underpowered and in need of a buff.

Warden needs new moves plain and simple. His bash is all he has and it is easy to get out of. After that he is basically orochi, top light and zone maybe throw in some heavy's and that is pretty much it. He needs a new attack chain or get rid of the bash all together and give him a new unblockable.

Valkyrie has a solidish kit really I just think she needs more mixups out of sweep and shield bash. Also a little more damage on heavy attacks wouldn't hurt to.

Orochi could use its one unblockable attack to force a reaction out of their opponents and maybe more mixups out of storm rush like being able to switch into a dodge attack half way through or something like that.

These are just my thoughts and i honestly think these changes would help these characters and I don't even this these changes would be to hard to do.

Knight_Raime
02-03-2018, 06:54 PM
there was a similar thread on the competitive subreddit. this is what I posted:

In order? Keep in mind this is from a mid tier-above average players perspective who only duels:

Valk>centurion>warden>orochi>shugoki>lawbringer>mushu>shin>pk>Shaman>warlord>glad.

Centurion needs a major overhaul. As does warden. I personally want goki reworked but that's because I disagree with his kit design. Rest listed could see some minor or major updates but none of them really need new moves. New combos for everyone though should be a soft feint into gb. and a light into heavy combo.

Yoshimitsu_440
02-03-2018, 07:18 PM
there was a similar thread on the competitive subreddit. this is what I posted:

In order? Keep in mind this is from a mid tier-above average players perspective who only duels:

Valk>centurion>warden>orochi>shugoki>lawbringer>mushu>shin>pk>Shaman>warlord>glad.

Centurion needs a major overhaul. As does warden. I personally want goki reworked but that's because I disagree with his kit design. Rest listed could see some minor or major updates but none of them really need new moves. New combos for everyone though should be a soft feint into gb. and a light into heavy combo.

"Warden needs a rework more than orochi" u cracked me up.

Knight_Raime
02-03-2018, 07:51 PM
"Warden needs a rework more than orochi" u cracked me up.

warden revolves around SB. SB against any good player is garbage.
orochi gets double light trom parries. and storm rush into top light is far more viable than SB.

Tyrjo
02-03-2018, 10:24 PM
There is a lot of dust that need to settle in season 5. Hero changes, parry changes. If I were on the fight balance team I would start slowly by analyzing......DATA.

Tundra 793
02-03-2018, 10:33 PM
Since ubisoft seem to be doing three characters at a time and one per faction

The heroes getting reworks or major balance buffs at Season 5s launch are Kensei, Conqueror, Berserker, Nobushi and Highlander. I'm pretty sure we can assume there won't be a particular pattern to follow going forward, the developers seem very focused on long standing player feedback, and ze data.

So don't feel like your suggestions and feedback need to be restricted to 3 heroes or anything.

matt89connor
02-03-2018, 11:04 PM
IMO: next pack will be:
Warden/Shugoki/Valk rework and LB Buff/nerf (depend of how he work when season 5 start).

Shugoki and warden are only forced to do always the same tattics, so they need a proper rework that include buff, nerf, and new moves.
Valk deserve an help cause every attack is a risk, from lights and dodge lights to the "heavy feint into shield bash" mixups.

Orochi/PK/warlord rework and maybe rider buff/nerf ,will be the 3rd phase

Illyrian_King
02-04-2018, 01:15 AM
In my eyes Warden should have been the FIRST ONE TO BE REWORKED

Edit: Don't touch my Lawbringer, if it's not a buff ^^

SerArthur-Dayne
02-04-2018, 12:04 PM
In my opinion, warden and orochi should be up next. Warden needs some new moves (hopefully some half swording moveset, maybe even give warden a halfswording move for deflect?)

Orochi desperately needs some new moves, and a full rework of the rest of the moves he has, because they suck. He only has double top lights and zone (and his top lights are getting nerfed into the dirt soon), literally every other move he has is just garbage ( especially riptide strike, probably the single worst move in the game), he needs an unblockable kick or something, a way to pressure his opponent a little, and force a reaction.

Centurion needs a rework so he plays nothing like he does now, and isnít just a cheesy parry king.

After this, Valk needs some love, probably a some new moves too.

Rest of the cast can come after these imo.

Yoshimitsu_440
02-04-2018, 01:09 PM
Warden gets side to side light after parry now which is has 2 more dmg than orochis double light in s5 so no idea where u get the feeling that he needs more rework than orochi

Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 02:58 PM
Warden gets side to side light after parry now which is has 2 more dmg than orochis double light in s5 so no idea where u get the feeling that he needs more rework than orochi

My point was that what orochi does is more consistent across all levels of skill brackets.
Warden however falls off once you start fighting near high tier and above players.
Plus if you compare warden's match ups against S tier heros (pk, glad, shaman)
they're worse than orochi's matchups vs those s tier heros.

Cliff_001
02-05-2018, 12:55 AM
"Warden needs a rework more than orochi" u cracked me up.
They both need one pretty bad but as to orochi I personally thought he should have got one first over kensei and I still don't think he is as bad as everyone said he is same with berzerker and valk.

PDXGorechild
02-05-2018, 04:40 PM
Funny how Warden and Orochi come up so often. Not surprised seeing as I see one or the other or both in virtually every game I play.

Not saying these characters don't need some love but Valkyrie is worse off than either in my opinion. She's just not a very popular character (maybe the least, down there with Shugoki) so doesn't have many threads made about her.

If I had to pick three, one from each faction, it'd be Valkyrie, Shugoki and Centurion. Warden needs help but I'd sooner see Centurion completely reworked. He's a one trick pony, horrible and frustrating to fight, and in my mind the worst designed on the roster. I enjoy fighting a skilled Warden, it's a healthy challenge. I never enjoy fighting Centurions, ever.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 04:52 PM
Funny how Warden and Orochi come up so often. Not surprised seeing as I see one or the other or both in virtually every game I play.

Not saying these characters don't need some love but Valkyrie is worse off than either in my opinion. She's just not a very popular character (maybe the least, down there with Shugoki) so doesn't have many threads made about her.

If I had to pick three, one from each faction, it'd be Valkyrie, Shugoki and Centurion. Warden needs help but I'd sooner see Centurion completely reworked. He's a one trick pony, horrible and frustrating to fight, and in my mind the worst designed on the roster. I enjoy fighting a skilled Warden, it's a healthy challenge. I never enjoy fighting Centurions, ever.

I agree. Valkyrie, Shugoki and Centurion should get the next rework pass. Even though two Hybrids are listed, but these three need overhauls regardless.

And yeah, Warden is fine as-is, and they helped him a notch by removing the guaranteed GB on zone block/whiff, so he can still hold on for longer.

I recall you were on PS4? if so, we should arrange a meeting. Never ever met a rep40 Berserker yet. Would be honored to duel you, good sir. And perhaps, showcase the potential of a real Warden.

PDXGorechild
02-05-2018, 05:00 PM
I agree. Valkyrie, Shugoki and Centurion should get the next rework pass. Even though two Hybrids are listed, but these three need overhauls regardless.

And yeah, Warden is fine as-is, and they helped him a notch by removing the guaranteed GB on zone block/whiff, so he can still hold on for longer.

I recall you were on PS4? if so, we should arrange a meeting. Never ever met a rep40 Berserker yet. Would be honored to duel you, good sir. And perhaps, showcase the potential of a real Warden.

I'm on PS4 dude. Same username as on here. Hit me up!

bob333e
02-05-2018, 05:15 PM
I'm on PS4 dude. Same username as on here. Hit me up!

Awesome! Will do. Mine is also same as on here.

Tyrjo
02-05-2018, 05:30 PM
Valkyrie and Shugoki are on the top of my list. Then maybe Warden, even though he's still solid. His 500ms zone buff will be very useful for him.

Centurion is fine. He can still be very overpowering in the right hands.

Orochi is fine, start playing him like the counter attacker he is. Learn how all other heroes work, exploit their weaknesses. Or move to Shaman if you want to play in an overwhelming way.

EvoX.
02-05-2018, 05:46 PM
Valkyrie should definitely be the first to get some love. It's by far the rarest class I see people play (on PC), even though she's pretty cool. Definitely going to pick her up soon.

Orochi should be second. Nerfed top light, buffed useless moves, only thing left is his zone. I guess this is supposed to make sense later on, but right now it sounds horrible. No amount of dedicated servers will make deflects viable, no amount of damage buffs to Riptide Strike will make the move itself viable. All it takes is a feint to bait it out, since every Orochi does it on raw reaction.

Third should be the Centurion. While he'll be the only one who gets a low-damage heavy off a heavy parry, he'll also be the one who doesn't get a high damage heavy off a light parry. Couple that with his horribly predictable kit and having to hope that there's a wall in front of the opponent for Parry Counter, and he's almost set to join the trash tiers.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 05:52 PM
he'll also be the one who doesn't get a high damage heavy off a light parry.

Upon light parry I think you can do a charged side heavy (not unblockable, the one where he hops forward), charged jab, then Eagle Talon. Overall damage should match a Raider's top heavy, I believe.

EvoX.
02-05-2018, 06:02 PM
Upon light parry I think you can do a charged side heavy (not unblockable, the one where he hops forward), charged jab, then Eagle Talon. Overall damage should match a Raider's top heavy, I believe.

You can't, the window will be 900ms, while it takes a full second for the fully charged pin. So there will basically be no difference in his punish for a light and heavy parry.

bob333e
02-05-2018, 06:16 PM
You can't, the window will be 900ms, while it takes a full second for the fully charged pin. So there will basically be no difference in his punish for a light and heavy parry.

His fully charged pin is 1000ms? whoa. Didn't know that.

I was pretty certain Centurion would be one of those hit the hardest by the parry changes. Him and Raider. Raider's top heavy is also 1000ms. His side heavy is 900ms. At least he gets a zone (900ms), but not as a followup because when followed up it's 1000ms as well.

Considering Raider has no unblockables other than his zone, I'd say he'll be in a worse position than Centurion.

I'm still waiting for the reveal this Thursday and the full patch notes to see what they changed on heroes concerning the parry changes.

Knight_Raime
02-05-2018, 07:31 PM
Funny how Warden and Orochi come up so often. Not surprised seeing as I see one or the other or both in virtually every game I play.

Not saying these characters don't need some love but Valkyrie is worse off than either in my opinion. She's just not a very popular character (maybe the least, down there with Shugoki) so doesn't have many threads made about her.

If I had to pick three, one from each faction, it'd be Valkyrie, Shugoki and Centurion. Warden needs help but I'd sooner see Centurion completely reworked. He's a one trick pony, horrible and frustrating to fight, and in my mind the worst designed on the roster. I enjoy fighting a skilled Warden, it's a healthy challenge. I never enjoy fighting Centurions, ever.

I think valks crime is that she's just under played. Before the parry nerf she had a 60 damage punish. Her dash attacks while very unsafe were amazing tools at beating other dash attacks.
She's the top of c tier heros far as i'm concerned. I think the main problem with her is just how unsafe she is. She's got some pretty unique mix ups. Most people just double poke and sweep though which is highly readable. I think a good place for her to start is to be less punishable. and given another mix up or 2. And her shoulder pin needs better consistency.

Goki is actually stupidly good. He's A tier. he's just boring. And I hate how he's designed.
Funny I actually consider shinobi to be the worst offender out of the entire roster.
I too would enjoy an entire rework on centurion. But warden is more likely to be done first. as season 5 is about addressing the OG roster. highlander was a special case.