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SenBotsu893
02-03-2018, 03:36 PM
how about we give stampede charge and raider fury a good "balancing" like with nobushi?

lower the raider fury mid combo damage from 50 to 20. it has a similar radious as nobushis zone but is unblockable and can still be softfeinted so that should be fine.

and stampede charge .... ah **** it. delete dat shieet. im too fed up with "balancing" decisions from the devs

oh and hopefully the berserker rework will lower his zone damage from 30 to 20 as well. because that is obvousily way too much damage.


on a different note.. why where the devs so relucktant to "balance" centurion back in season 2 even though they knew how broken his 4v4 get up was.... oh right ...biased

BlowHard74728
02-03-2018, 04:09 PM
I take it you're a nobushi main. It really isnt that big a deal. Sure they took away some damage from her zone but look at how much they gave her in return. Her kick is now faster than what it was before (700ms to 600) she can now do vipers retreat after her swift recoil, and she is able to attack from the top with a light after hidden stance now. All they did was change the amount of damage that the First attack in her zone does. And lets be honest it was one of the most powerful ones in the game. I feel like the devs did a really good job with nobushi.

S0Mi_xD
02-03-2018, 04:25 PM
how about we give stampede charge and raider fury a good "balancing" like with nobushi?

lower the raider fury mid combo damage from 50 to 20. it has a similar radious as nobushis zone but is unblockable and can still be softfeinted so that should be fine.

and stampede charge .... ah **** it. delete dat shieet. im too fed up with "balancing" decisions from the devs

oh and hopefully the berserker rework will lower his zone damage from 30 to 20 as well. because that is obvousily way too much damage.


on a different note.. why where the devs so relucktant to "balance" centurion back in season 2 even though they knew how broken his 4v4 get up was.... oh right ...biased

You know the speed differece of those moves do you?
Nobushi Zone first hit = 600ms
Raider Zone mid combo = 1000ms

You know, i would understand to bring it down to 40 dmg since it is soft feintable but not to 20...

About Berserker Zone - it is 500ms, but it is NOT CANCELABLE.
Block it ones = 99% safe parry ... and ALL of those hits count as Light attacks (means max parry punish)
The chip dmg is 5 dmg or lower if you parry a hit after a block.
(Block first hit, parry second(or 3rd,4rd) = 2(or 3,4) chip taken, enemy lost huge stamina + max parry punish)
Berserker has one of the highest risks with his zone - i would consider those 30 dmg even to low for such a risk....

Even if you manage to block nobushis First zone attack - thats 6 chip dmg (berserkers chip dmg is lower, because it is split in 4 weaker hits 9,7,7,7)
You have 4 chances to parry berserkers Zone, Nobushi only one, because she can cancel out the second hit.

Even if you don't parry - block 10 berserker zones = 50 chip, block 10 Nobushi zones = 60 chip dmg)

Knight_Raime
02-03-2018, 04:48 PM
I take it you're a nobushi main. It really isnt that big a deal. Sure they took away some damage from her zone but look at how much they gave her in return. Her kick is now faster than what it was before (700ms to 600) she can now do vipers retreat after her swift recoil, and she is able to attack from the top with a light after hidden stance now. All they did was change the amount of damage that the First attack in her zone does. And lets be honest it was one of the most powerful ones in the game. I feel like the devs did a really good job with nobushi.

He's not. He's a samurai fan. Firmly believes they're constantly shafted.
Most of his statments are usually very emperical or hyperbolic.

I tried explaining in his first post about the dev stream how nobu is based on feedback from a top tier competitive player who's had hands on experience with the new changes on nobu. But it went ignored by him. This post just comes off as venting to me. Not looking for an actual discussion.

BTTrinity
02-03-2018, 05:02 PM
At the point where any Samurai deemed "Meta" gets nerfed within two weeks of it happening, but when Romans favorite is meta it takes 2 seasons to nerf EFFECTIVELY.... I think he has a pretty good reason to believe the balancing teams Bias against Samurai. Yes, the post is very whiny but at this point its easy to understand his frustration from my perspective.

Knight_Raime
02-03-2018, 05:44 PM
At the point where any Samurai deemed "Meta" gets nerfed within two weeks of it happening, but when Romans favorite is meta it takes 2 seasons to nerf EFFECTIVELY.... I think he has a pretty good reason to believe the balancing teams Bias against Samurai. Yes, the post is very whiny but at this point its easy to understand his frustration from my perspective.

Frustration is understandable. What he's chosen to do with it is not okay.

guor6800
02-03-2018, 06:00 PM
Frustration is understandable. What he's chosen to do with it is not okay.

According to whom? Your personal opinion?

I personally don't agree with Senbotsu on this one but from his other posts i can clearly understand that this guy knows what he is talking about.

On the other hand i clearly remember you during season 2 defending cent with lots of passion or stating that shaman is fine she just needs some numbers configured and she's good to go.

Knight_Raime
02-03-2018, 06:11 PM
According to whom? Your personal opinion?

I personally don't agree with Senbotsu on this one but from his other posts i can clearly understand that this guy knows what he is talking about.

On the other hand i clearly remember you during season 2 defending cent with lots of passion or stating that shaman is fine she just needs some numbers configured and she's good to go.

Let me word it another way. Everyone's feelings are valid. And to an extent one's actions based on said person's feelings can be understandable.
But just because you can understand something doesn't mean that it's okay to do. Like. If someone murdered my spouse and I killed them out of vengence that's a crime of passion.
it's understandable but I should still be punished to some degree because murder is wrong.

In this case the OP has every right to feel the way he does. And it's understandable with his feelings in mind why this post has this attitude behind it. That doesn't mean the post itself is productive or helpful.

I don't think he's just a raging kid. If I did i'd have put him on ignore like everyone else that sort of talks this way. He's got good points in most situations and a decent grip of the game. Me and him have actually agreed on somethings in the past. Just usually never the finer points of them.

I don't see why how I used to behave months ago has anything to do with this current post. And if you can remember back that far you should also remember that I did shift my stance once I understood and acknowledged that my feelings/position is different than the majority because I base my feelings/perspectives differently. I was eventually posting threads that called for nerfs on him. But adjustments to his kit as well so he'd be overall better kit design wise.

And yes. Shaman in my opinion has a completely fine kit. I've explained that. And why I don't think removing any of her mix up options is a good idea. Something this forum site seems to not understand quite yet is how impactful numbers actually are when it comes to rebalancing. As an example. Simply tacking on extra recovery to some of shamans moves doesn't sound like much. But it makes her a lot more punishable. I fully understand that most people here don't agree with her base design concept. And that's fine. But I don't think they're ever going to change a kit's core design theme. Even with the reworks they're trying to keep that theme for that hero. Just making the theme better.

So I personally think arguing from the perspective that shaman is flawed from the design of her kit is pointless and not productive. I think instead people should argue from the position that she's here to stay. And find ways to rein her in without ruining her theme. Which is why i've been arguing on adjusting the numbers.

guor6800
02-03-2018, 06:37 PM
Let me word it another way. Everyone's feelings are valid. And to an extent one's actions based on said person's feelings can be understandable.
But just because you can understand something doesn't mean that it's okay to do. Like. If someone murdered my spouse and I killed them out of vengence that's a crime of passion.
it's understandable but I should still be punished to some degree because murder is wrong.

In this case the OP has every right to feel the way he does. And it's understandable with his feelings in mind why this post has this attitude behind it. That doesn't mean the post itself is productive or helpful.

I don't think he's just a raging kid. If I did i'd have put him on ignore like everyone else that sort of talks this way. He's got good points in most situations and a decent grip of the game. Me and him have actually agreed on somethings in the past. Just usually never the finer points of them.

I don't see why how I used to behave months ago has anything to do with this current post. And if you can remember back that far you should also remember that I did shift my stance once I understood and acknowledged that my feelings/position is different than the majority because I base my feelings/perspectives differently. I was eventually posting threads that called for nerfs on him. But adjustments to his kit as well so he'd be overall better kit design wise.

And yes. Shaman in my opinion has a completely fine kit. I've explained that. And why I don't think removing any of her mix up options is a good idea. Something this forum site seems to not understand quite yet is how impactful numbers actually are when it comes to rebalancing. As an example. Simply tacking on extra recovery to some of shamans moves doesn't sound like much. But it makes her a lot more punishable. I fully understand that most people here don't agree with her base design concept. And that's fine. But I don't think they're ever going to change a kit's core design theme. Even with the reworks they're trying to keep that theme for that hero. Just making the theme better.

So I personally think arguing from the perspective that shaman is flawed from the design of her kit is pointless and not productive. I think instead people should argue from the position that she's here to stay. And find ways to rein her in without ruining her theme. Which is why i've been arguing on adjusting the numbers.

I got nothing personal with you Raime. You are among the guys that keep this community and this forums alive. We had our fair share of agreements and disagreements and that makes me respect you even further.

I just pointed out that you were way to dismissive. The example with the murdered wife although it sounds logical it really isn't so much. There are laws that determine those kinds of things. I am not aware of any law that prevents me from being dissatisfied and being vocal about it whether my opinion is "right" or "wrong".

I won't bother with cent at all simply because he doesn't belong in this roster.

As for shaman. No she has not a completely fine kit. Having literally every broken move in this game and with almost zero risk behind them its not completely fine.
Even if they tune her down she has more tools that 4-5 og heroes combined.

Yet again i got nothing personal with you mate although it may seemed that way. Just sometimes opinions tend to differ.

Knight_Raime
02-03-2018, 06:47 PM
I got nothing personal with you Raime. You are among the guys that keep this community and this forums alive. We had our fair share of agreements and disagreements and that makes me respect you even further.

I just pointed out that you were way to dismissive. The example with the murdered wife although it sounds logical it really isn't so much. There are laws that determine those kinds of things. I am not aware of any law that prevents me from being dissatisfied and being vocal about it whether my opinion is "right" or "wrong".

I won't bother with cent at all simply because he doesn't belong in this roster.

As for shaman. No she has not a completely fine kit. Having literally every broken move in this game and with almost zero risk behind them its not completely fine.
Even if they tune her down she has more tools that 4-5 og heroes combined.

Yet again i got nothing personal with you mate although it may seemed that way. Just sometimes opinions tend to differ.

I agree that I can be dismissive from time to time. In this post in particular I was just tired. I've seen him make posts like these before and while I could have easily just copy pasted my response from his last thread and commented on raider and zerker being mentioned in here I just didn't think it was worth the effort. My main issue right now as far as I see it is just letting these kinds of posts go. I let them trigger me. I shouldn't be doing that.

Yes my example is based on law and there is no law against someone being vocal about their feelings (though there is some about slandering.) The point I was trying to convey was that while he's got every right to post this way and his feelings are valid and understandable to an extent I don't think it's okay from a fundemental standpoint. As arguments/debates are meant to be a healthy discussion of back and forth. Nothing was healthy in the OP's response. it was very clearly just venting frustration. Which just to be clear i'm totally fine with. As long as it's done in a productive mannor.

But I don't moderate forums here. so it's not my call. Again I should have just ignored this thread.

Fair enough I won't prod further on cent.
If you've seen my posts on shaman then you should know what i'm going to say next.
Her mix ups are punishable. Range is not her friend. She lacks when she's not the one applying pressure. as all of her mix ups require a setup animation. Fully knowing this you can punish her before she can truly start them or react accordingly to them.

I feel like once the OG cast is brought up and she receives a few more tweaks (from what i've suggested) she'll feel a lot better. the main crux of everyones feelings right now being that she's far and away massively different compared to the base cast.

Brologna_Xeno
02-03-2018, 08:07 PM
The other proposal I don't hear about 4v4

what if teams were limited to one of each hero type? No two raiders or two whatevers?

BTTrinity
02-03-2018, 08:39 PM
The other proposal I don't hear about 4v4

what if teams were limited to one of each hero type? No two raiders or two whatevers?

Its been brought up, most people dont want this outside of ranked because leveling heroes will take even longer than it already does.

UbiJurassic
02-03-2018, 08:49 PM
how about we give stampede charge and raider fury a good "balancing" like with nobushi?

lower the raider fury mid combo damage from 50 to 20. it has a similar radious as nobushis zone but is unblockable and can still be softfeinted so that should be fine.

and stampede charge .... ah **** it. delete dat shieet. im too fed up with "balancing" decisions from the devs

oh and hopefully the berserker rework will lower his zone damage from 30 to 20 as well. because that is obvousily way too much damage.


on a different note.. why where the devs so relucktant to "balance" centurion back in season 2 even though they knew how broken his 4v4 get up was.... oh right ...biased

Something to keep in mind is that Season 5 is centered around bringing updates to all 12 original heroes to bring them in line with the other members of the hero roster. The season will kick off with the changes to Conqueror, Kensei, Berserker, Nobushi and Highlander, who isn't a member of the original 12 but certainly was in need of more intensive changes. We'll be looking to reveal our additional plans for other heroes as we progress through the season.

Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 12:06 AM
Something to keep in mind is that Season 5 is centered around bringing updates to all 12 original heroes to bring them in line with the other members of the hero roster. The season will kick off with the changes to Conqueror, Kensei, Berserker, Nobushi and Highlander, who isn't a member of the original 12 but certainly was in need of more intensive changes. We'll be looking to reveal our additional plans for other heroes as we progress through the season.

since this is the second time you've posted something like this I guess that confirms my original question aha.
now i'm just wondering if they plan on re looking over some other dlc heros like centurion after the OG hero list is taken care of.

UbiJurassic
02-04-2018, 12:39 AM
since this is the second time you've posted something like this I guess that confirms my original question aha.
now i'm just wondering if they plan on re looking over some other dlc heros like centurion after the OG hero list is taken care of.

From my understanding, that is how Season 5 will work. The main focus is on bringing the original 12 heroes up to speed with the other members of the roster and to bring dedicated servers to the live game.

Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 12:49 AM
From my understanding, that is how Season 5 will work. The main focus is on bringing the original 12 heroes up to speed with the other members of the roster and to bring dedicated servers to the live game.

I appreciate the extra clarification.
fingers crossed some of the dlc heros are tweaked in season 6. still holding out that my boi centurion gets a proper look over.

Illyrian_King
02-04-2018, 01:07 AM
This time the devs really did a bad job with the Highlander ;b

About Nobushi I can't judge, because I am not too familiar with this hero.

Knight_Raime
02-04-2018, 03:13 PM
This time the devs really did a bad job with the Highlander ;b

About Nobushi I can't judge, because I am not too familiar with this hero.

I'm not sure how you think so:
~being able to fast flow into offensive form both at the start and the end of celtic curse gives him more options of approach.
Yes you can read all of it and defend accordingly. That doesn't make it inherently bad though

~getting stronger heavies just means he can trade better now.

~cabar toss getting better tracking is amazing. and kick not kicking as far means his follow up unblockable heavy should land.

~they reduced the stamina cost of his unblockable heavies which is great.

~and the stamina change for going into offensive form and staying in it sound good in theory.