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Tundra 793
02-02-2018, 02:23 AM
I was going to paste and/or link to this in the recap thread, but I concluded there's simply too much stuff to try and stuff into an existing thread. Instead, here are all the Patch Notes from today's Den, that will go live on the 15th. I'm quoting the Pope directly from Reddit here; https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7umnax/abridged_warriors_den_feb_1st_patch_notes/

I will do my very best to clean up, and highlight all the important bits for you guys later, but for now, everything you might want or need to read about can be found below.


Hello! I said on stream I wanted to post the Patch Notes from the items we discussed on the show today. Here that is!
Reminder that FULL NOTES will come next week on the 8th!


PARRY
General
You can now Counter Guard Break if grabbed during a Parry Reaction.
Parrying now moves you 1m forward (was 0m).
Parried a Heavy Attack
Heavy Parry Reaction is now 1500ms (was 1400ms), and now allows Stance Change during the last 100ms.
If you Parry a Heavy, now you get 600ms frame advantage in which your opponent cannot block, parry or dodge.
Developer Comments: This means any hero can land a guaranteed Light Attack. Some heroes can also land certain other special moves.
Parried a Light Attack
Light Parry Reaction is still 1800ms but now allows Stance Change during the last 100ms.
If you Parry a Light, now you get 900ms frame advantage in which your opponent cannot block/parry/dodge.
Developer Comments: This means most heroes can land a guaranteed Heavy Attack. Some heroes can also land certain other special moves.
Added a Visual and Audio Effects to parrying a Light Attack, to indicate that your opponent will be vulnerable for a longer period than if you parried a heavy.
Developer Comments: When Parry used to guarantee a Guard Break, it meant that the attacker had a negative expectation of the result: the amount of damage your original attack could inflict was usually less than the amount you risk to a parry, including scenarios such as:
Thrown off a ledge (instant death)
Wall-Stagger punish
Out-Of-Stamina-Unbalance punish
Now, if you are parried you can Counter Guard Break. The opponent will still be given a window to strike you, so you’ll still take damage, but the amount is much more reasonable compared to what the original attack that was parried would have done.
We also think this will improve the pace of the Parry – before the Parry was usually followed by the Guard Break, which seemed to slow the pace of combat. Now, the Parry will be followed by an actual weapon-based attack and combat should feel a little more dynamic.


Character-Specific changes based on the New Parry Vulnerability Timings:

Berserker
Removed early connections from Parry to Light Attack and Heavy attack.
Developer Comments: We left Berserker’s dedicated Parry follow-up “Skilled Slash” as it was. We removed the specific early connections to attack because Berserker always got a Top Heavy, and now Berserker only gets a Top Heavy after Parrying a Light. This is more in line with the rest of the cast’s options.

Highlander
Fast-flow to Offensive Form from Parry now starts at 700ms into the Parry (was 600ms).
Developer Comments: This change is so that if the Highlander Parries a Heavy, it does NOT guarantee a “Fomorian Kick”. Instead, Highlanders should use their Light Attacks against Heavies. If the Highlander Parries a Light, “Balor’s Might” will be guaranteed.

Lawbringer
Counterattack Heavy now starts at 500ms into the Parry (was 400ms).
Counterattack Zone Attack now starts at 500ms into the Parry (was 400ms).
Developer Comments: Although there’s a change here, Lawbringer has exactly the same parry rewards as on before. These timing changes are just a consequence of the general Parry changes made above.

Orochi
Reduced Top Light to 15 damage (from 17).
Reduced Top Light 2nd Combo Strike to 7 damage (from 15).
Increased “Wind Gust” to 35 damage (from 25).
Increased “Riptide Strike” to 40 damage (from 30).
Developer Comments: The Orochi’s Top Light into Top Light Combo damage output is reduced to 22 (from 32), so that it is in line with the rest of the rosters punishes when parrying a Heavy. Orochi is compensated with better damage on the special counter-attack moves.
Shinobi
Reduced backward movement during Parry Reaction to match other heroes.
Developer Comments: This is so heroes with low range attacks can still connect, such as Warlord’s Top Light.

Shugoki - Reduced forward movement during parrying to 1m (from 2m), to match other heroes. - Shugoki used to be able to act 700ms into the 800ms Parry. Now, Shugoki can launch Light, Heavy or Zone Attacks at 600ms, but must wait until 800ms to perform other moves like Dodge, Guard Break or “Demon Embrace”.
Developer’s comments: This means Shugoki can punish a Heavy Parry with a Light into Headbutt, and punish a Light Parry with a Heavy Attack as before. Shugoki no longer needs to switch stance to make this happen (he did before).

HIGHLANDER UPDATE
“Celtic Curse”
The Top Strike can now be Cancelled into Fast Flow to Top Offensive Form, by holding the Heavy Input Button - shows the pink flash of entry in Offensive Form.
Slightly increased rotation of Top Strike to better track sprinting opponents.
Improved ability to acquire targets that are sprinting at the Highlander.
“Celtic Curse” can now switch targets when cancelling to the side attacks.
Developer Comments: “Celtic Curse” needs to be strong so that Highlander can initiate combat, and here the cancel into Offensive Form will make the real attacks much harder to identify, while protecting the Highlander from the Full Block Stance of Conqueror or Warlord.
Stamina
Removed the stamina cooldown for entering Offensive Form.
Can now regen stamina while dodging in Offensive Form.
Reduced stamina cost of “Balor's Might” to 24 (from 30).
Developer Comments: The Highlander has been heavily limited by his stamina consumption and regen. Often, the Highlanders would do a lot of work to only get one hit in, then have to back off. Now, the Highlanders should be more able to sustain their offensive. Note that while Offensive Form's Enhanced Lights still cost 3 stamina when cancelled from “Balor's Might”, when accessed directly they are reduced from 33 to 27.
Damage
Increased damage on Offensive Form “Balor's Might” to 40 (from 30).
Increased damage on Defensive Form Side Heavy Openers to 35 (from 25).
Increased damage on Defensive Form Side Heavy Finishers to 35 (from 30).
Increased damage on Defensive Form Top Heavy Opener to 45 (from 40).
Increased damage on Defensive Form Top Heavy Finisher to 45 (from 40).
Developer Comments: Part of the Highlander's fantasy is to hit hard and now he finally can.
Defensive Form's 2nd Lights
Uninterruptible Stance is now applied to Defensive Form's 2nd Lights, starting at 100ms.
Interrupt Blocked reaction is reduced to 800ms (was 1100ms).
Developer Comments: This move no longer gives up a free Guard Break when blocked. Furthermore, the Uninterruptible Stance allows it to be used occasionally in-group fights.
“Caber Toss”
Improved rotational tracking.
Improved ability to move forward during the strike.
Developer Comments: “Caber Toss” is now better able at catching players who are attempting to dodge. The intention is to improve the “Fomorian Kick” and “Caber Toss” mix-up, especially against back-dodges (and diagonally backward dodges).
Offensive Form Dodge
Increased movement on Offensive Form's Forward Dodge by 0.25m.
Developer Comments: Small movement increase to help Highlander catch up to more opponents while holding the Offensive Form.
“Fomorian Kick”

[Bug fix] Removed a loop of “Kick into Forward Dodge, repeat”, by removing the 100ms early connection from kick-to-dodge.
[Bug fix] Reduced the knockback distance slightly on “Formorian Kick”, in order to reduce the situations in which you land the kick, but then whiff the Unblockable Heavy afterward.
Throw
[Bug fix] Fixed an issue where Stance Change prevented Highlander from Fast Flowing into Offensive Form.
Execution
[Bug fix] The “No Mercy” execution now executes at 2200ms (was 4300ms)

NOBUSHI UPDATE
Zone Attack
1st strike: Reduced to 20 damage (from 33 damage).
2nd strike: 1 + 20 bleed damage (from 6 damage+ 20 Bleed damage).
Total = Reduced to 41 health damage (from 59 health damage).
[Bug Fix] Added visual effect on Zone attack 2nd strike cancel.
Kick
Kick startup reduced to 600ms (from 800ms).
On Heavy the branching to Kick was delayed by 100ms.
Updated the attack range to 3.5m (from 4m).
[Bug Fix] Reduced invulnerability to Guard Break by 400ms on Miss (was from 0 to 700ms, now from 0 to 300ms) and by 300ms on Hit (was from 0 to 600ms, now from 0 to 300ms).
Developer Comments: Now when the Nobushi misses her Kick, the opponent is able to Guard Break her.
Removed the stamina cost on hit (10 stamina points).
Kick trajectory has been updated.
Attack Post “Hidden Stance”
“Hidden Stance” Top Light attack startup reduced to 500ms (from 600ms).
“Hidden Stance” Top Heavy Feint:
[Bug Fix] Defense was missing during the last 100ms of the Feint. It is fixed.
[Bug Fix] Feints could be performed while Out of Stamina. It is fixed.
Side Light Finishers
Side Light Finishers startup reduced to 600ms (from 700ms)
“Swift Recoil”
“Swift Recoil” can now connect to the Viper’s Retreat (after 200ms)
Chains Top Light and Heavy
[Bug Fix] Inside chains, the Nobushi can move horizontally during all her Top attack startup, which allows her to dodge the Block into Shove for example. It is fixed.
Developer Comments: Now the Nobushi cannot move on side direction during her chain top attacks, she only move forward as the other chains in the game.
Side Dodges
Increased the Nobushi side dodge recoveries durations to 600ms (Before was 500ms).
“Cobra Strike”
[Bug fix] Nobushi Cobra Strike can hit an opponent without any visual contact when opponent succeed a dodge. It is fixed.
Developer Comments: The trajectories were updated to be closer to the “Cobra Strike” animations.
[Bug fix] Nobushi was unable to cancel the Cobra Strike’s Recovery into a forward Dodge. It is fixed.
Developer Comments: It was not allowed to make a forward dodge during the “Cobra Strike”, only side dodges were allowed. Now, the Nobushi can cancel “Cobra Strike” by a forward or a side dodge.
Sprint Attacks
[Bug fix] The Nobushi sprint light attack allows opponent to go through the guidance while the Sprint heavy doesn’t.
Developer Comments: So we did the opposite for the logic:
Sprint Light no longer causes the opponent to be knocked off ledges.
Sprint Heavy now causes the opponent to be knocked off ledges.
[Bug fix] The Nobushi can perform “Slithering Thrust” and “Coiling Slash” while out of stamina with the “Iron Lungs” feat active. It is fixed.
Developer Comments: Now the Nobushi has the same behavior as the other characters which share the same feat. She cannot perform her sprint attacks.
Light Attacks post “Hidden Stance”
Reduced the damage to 8 damage (from 18).
Developer Comments: Light attacks post “Hidden Stance” into Light (combo) now confirms 34 (instead of 44) damage.
“Sidewinder Form”
Removed the ability to cancel “Sidewinder Form” recoveries by a back dodge. Can only be cancelled by a Front or a Side Dodge. Developer Comments: Same behavior than the “Cobra Strike”, will avoid to be able to escape.

SHAMAN
Predator’s Hunger
Reduced the knockback of Predator’s Hunger by 0.5m.
Throw Left
Left Throws no longer Unbalance the opponent if the Throw itself reduces them to 0 stamina. It now only Unbalances if the opponent was at 0 stamina before the Throw (this now makes it consistent with other heroes’ throws).

SHINOBI
[Bug fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to be interrupted by a Guard Break from an external attacker during the teleport behind his opponent after a deflect.
Developer Comments: This was inconsistent compared to other characters deflect. Now, a Guard Break cannot interrupt the Shinobi during all his teleport (when he is invisible) and during the 1st part of his recovery (before he starts to turn in the direction of his target).
[Bug fix] Fixed an issue that cause the Shinobi to send the opponent in the wrong direction after performing Charged Kick mix up while he is not locked to him.
Developer Comments: The rotation speed of the target was too slow and do not have time to face the Shinobi when he hits him. Now the rotation speed is changed to allow the target rotation to face the Shinobi.
[Bug fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi Guard Breaks to sometimes affect the opponent behind his targeted opponent.

SKIRMISH
Skirmish now uses a pulse respawn mechanic.
Developers comment: This means that all dead players will respawn simultaneously every 10 seconds, with a minimum of 3 seconds. This should make it much easier for teams to regroup after losing team fights, which in turn should make the whole game mode fairer. To supplement this change, executions will no longer inflict a respawn duration penalty and will instead give more hard points based on the duration of the execution (Short: 15 pts, Medium: 35pts, Long: 50 pts). This should ultimately create shorter and more intense matches that feel more like what a Skirmish should be.

Improved Player Reporting Dialog
Added more granularity to the Player Reporting Dialog, now players can be reported for the following categories:
Abusive Chat (PC Only)
Inactivity / AFK
Cheating / Botting
Offensive Emblem
Offensive Name (PC Only. On Console, please contact Sony or Microsoft.)
Griefing
Spam
The Reporting dialog also includes the “Do and Don’t” of reporting in a selected category.
Reports are reviewed on a daily basis, and we will continue to monitor For Honor for inappropriate behavior, as well as take action as needed to preserve the integrity of game. You may refer to our code of conduct here: Code of Conduct.
Please Note: Abuse of this feature can lead to Sanctions against the Reporter. Furthermore, the ability to report each player is now limited to once per match.
Developer Comments: Thanks to this, players will be able to report toxic behaviors more accurately. It’s crucial for us to have a safe and fun environment when playing For Honor. We are committed to continue fighting against toxicity in our game.

Faster Access to the “Interactive Scoreboard”
Players can now access the Interactive scoreboard faster by using the following Shortcuts:
With a Controller: While Holding (View/Share) press (Menu/Options) to switch to the Interactive Scoreboard.
With Keyboard & Mouse: Press F5 to access the Interactive Scoreboard directly.
Developer Comments: Now players will find it easier to interact with a specific player name during a match.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 03:00 AM
Nice to have a bit more clarification on things for people.

Vakris_One
02-02-2018, 01:12 PM
I'd be curious to know what the developers consider as "spam" since they now want people to be able to report others for spamming. I mean they did build a lot of the OG roster around spamming a single viable move. Do they for example want us to report:

- Shugoki's for spamming GB > wall splat > Demon's Embrace
- Lawbringers for blockshove
- Wardens for shoulder bash
- Warlords for headbutt
- Orochi for double top light and zone
- Conq for shield bash
- Shinobi for dash kick combo
- Gladiator for toe stab
- Shaman for her dash forward heavies
- Raider for top light into zone into top light
- Peacekeeper for light spam plus zone

And with this community where almost everything that beats someone is called "spam" anyway regardless of the truth. Are the devs just blowing smoke up people's butts or do they really want to be buried up to their eyeballs in spam reports? If it was me I'd just implement a block player feature and be done with it.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 01:21 PM
I'd be curious to know what the developers consider as "spam" since they now want people to be able to report others for spamming. I mean they did build a lot of the OG roster around spamming a single viable move. Do they for example want us to report:

- Shugoki's for spamming GB > wall splat > Demon's Embrace
- Lawbringers for blockshove
- Wardens for shoulder bash
- Warlords for headbutt
- Orochi for double top light and zone
- Conq for shield bash
- Shinobi for dash kick combo
- Gladiator for toe stab
- Shaman for her dash forward heavies
- Raider for top light into zone into top light
- Peacekeeper for light spam plus zone

And with this community where almost everything that beats someone is called "spam" anyway regardless of the truth. Are the devs just blowing smoke up people's butts or do they really want to be buried up to their eyeballs in spam reports? If it was me I'd just implement a block player feature and be done with it.

I think spam refers to someone spamming you messages or spamming the in game dialogue options.
Since it just seems insane to be reportable for using the same move over and over. it's a fighting game. that's going to happen.

Vakris_One
02-02-2018, 01:32 PM
I think spam refers to someone spamming you messages or spamming the in game dialogue options.
Since it just seems insane to be reportable for using the same move over and over. it's a fighting game. that's going to happen.
Yeah, thus my confusion. Spamming moves in a fighting game? What shocking sorcery is this!? :p

They might need to change the description in that case to "chat spamming" lest they get drowned in "spamming the same move" reports. Even with the chat spam though it's still strange. In-game chat can only be spammed 3 messages at a time and there's nothing offensive about the words. Text chat can be muted. Very peculiar choice for a report option in my opinion.

Armosias
02-02-2018, 01:50 PM
I think it also means spamming written messages not just going for 3 "Wow" in a row

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 01:56 PM
Yeah, thus my confusion. Spamming moves in a fighting game? What shocking sorcery is this!? :p

They might need to change the description in that case to "chat spamming" lest they get drowned in "spamming the same move" reports. Even with the chat spam though it's still strange. In-game chat can only be spammed 3 messages at a time and there's nothing offensive about the words. Text chat can be muted. Very peculiar choice for a report option in my opinion.

yeah it's a very confusing thing either way and should be clarified asap.

Charmzzz
02-02-2018, 02:14 PM
Wow, these changes are fcking awesome! I really like it. I will have to adapt alot to the new mechanics, but I really cannot wait to play S5!

bob333e
02-02-2018, 02:21 PM
Just noticed this thread, thanks much for a clearer write-up! I was just mentioning in my reply to the Warriors Den thread that I'd await full patch notes but, technically, here they are.

They seem pretty solid adjustments across the board. I especially appreciate the new reporting options but, I still don't see a lagswitch/throttling/connection exploit option... guess I'll file that under 'cheating' next time I meet a lagswitcher. Though cheating is usually hacks / bot hacks, hence the slight confusion.

I second Vakris about the spamming option. It should be renamed to 'chat spamming' or something.

All in all, pretty nice changes across the board. Eagerly awaiting S5's launch.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 02:35 PM
Just noticed this thread, thanks much for a clearer write-up! I was just mentioning in my reply to the Warriors Den thread that I'd await full patch notes but, technically, here they are.

They seem pretty solid adjustments across the board. I especially appreciate the new reporting options but, I still don't see a lagswitch/throttling/connection exploit option... guess I'll file that under 'cheating' next time I meet a lagswitcher. Though cheating is usually hacks / bot hacks, hence the slight confusion.

I second Vakris about the spamming option. It should be renamed to 'chat spamming' or something.

All in all, pretty nice changes across the board. Eagerly awaiting S5's launch.

well...these notes are just the changes they discussed on stream in better detail.
this doesn't cover the notes on the 3 other heros.
or other bug fixes that may exist.
and all the changes done to peoples kits with the parry nerfs in mind.

so no where near the full amount aha.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 02:55 PM
well...these notes are just the changes they discussed on stream in better detail.
this doesn't cover the notes on the 3 other heros.
or other bug fixes that may exist.
and all the changes done to peoples kits with the parry nerfs in mind.

so no where near the full amount aha.

Other than the reworks themselves, there's still more? oh whooey, I'll be happy to read through a lot more details when they're available.

You're right though, there are others such as Centurion, who won't be able to exercise his parry punish because that requires a GB on parry, if I recall. Also, not sure whether Shinobi's ranged GB would affect light parries.

I'm eager to read more about the Kensei and Zerk reworks.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 03:00 PM
Other than the reworks themselves, there's still more? oh whooey, I'll be happy to read through a lot more details when they're available.

You're right though, there are others such as Centurion, who won't be able to exercise his parry punish because that requires a GB on parry, if I recall. Also, not sure whether Shinobi's ranged GB would affect light parries.

I'm eager to read more about the Kensei and Zerk reworks.

Cent's light parry punish won't be possible anymore. you get 900ms for light parries and for him to get his fully charged heavy after a parry is longer than that.
Similarly shinobi won't get his light parry punish of going into sickle rain.because it's a GB. and you don't get GB's anymore.

You should check out my thread about the parry punishes if you're curious. I don't have every hero in there because i'm not familiar in depth with all heros.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 03:04 PM
You should check out my thread about the parry punishes if you're curious. I don't have every hero in there because i'm not familiar in depth with all heros.

I just did, it's a good read, agreed with most of it. I'm especially happy that cheesy Wardens who ruin Warden's reputation overall won't have easy damage going on for them, hah.

Sadly though, zone no longer gives GB on block/whiff as of S5, so this will encourage zone spamming a bit more. There's always something that's gotta tarnish Warden's image...

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 03:06 PM
I just did, it's a good read, agreed with most of it. I'm especially happy that cheesy Wardens who ruin Warden's reputation overall won't have easy damage going on for them, hah.

Sadly though, zone no longer gives GB on block/whiff as of S5, so this will encourage zone spamming a bit more. There's always something that's gotta tarnish Warden's image...

yeah more zone spam will be a thing. But I feel like it's pretty predictable. at least compared to pk zone spam. I can't deal with that.
but I no longer struggle with wardens or orochi's zone.

Charmzzz
02-02-2018, 03:11 PM
Hm, wait:



Parry Changes; The team wanted to rebalance the Risk/Reward of attacking someone, while keeping Parry effective.

1; If you are parried, if you get GBed, you can CGB
2; If your heavy is parried your opponent gets a light attack. (Heavy Parries give you a 600 MS window)
3; If your light is parried your opponent gets a heavy attack. (Light Parries give you a 900 MS window)



I'm not sure what they exactly said on the Den, but maybe being able to CGB after getting parried will only be possible after a heavy attack? Or did they confirm it for light attacks, too?

Tundra 793
02-02-2018, 03:19 PM
Hm, wait:



I'm not sure what they exactly said on the Den, but maybe being able to CGB after getting parried will only be possible after a heavy attack? Or did they confirm it for light attacks, too?

As I've understood it, you can now CGB any grab attempt after a parry, light or heavy.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 03:22 PM
I'm not sure what they exactly said on the Den, but maybe being able to CGB after getting parried will only be possible after a heavy attack? Or did they confirm it for light attacks, too?

Any direct GB attempt after any parry, will be counterable. Which is perfect, imo.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 03:29 PM
Hm, wait:



I'm not sure what they exactly said on the Den, but maybe being able to CGB after getting parried will only be possible after a heavy attack? Or did they confirm it for light attacks, too?

Basically put any GB attempt after any parry will be CGBable.
I am personally wondering if this messes with zerkers deflect.

I know the deflect isn't a parry. but I don't know how they managed to make it so you can still be stunned but able to GB during said stun on the technical side of things.
so it's a stretch to say that it would effect her deflect at all and i'm sure it won't. just curious.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 03:36 PM
Basically put any GB attempt after any parry will be CGBable.
I am personally wondering if this messes with zerkers deflect.

I know the deflect isn't a parry. but I don't know how they managed to make it so you can still be stunned but able to GB during said stun on the technical side of things.
so it's a stretch to say that it would effect her deflect at all and i'm sure it won't. just curious.

Good thinking. Zerk's deflect could be possibly reworked too, alongside her rework? as a rep1 Zerker who often landed deflects, only time I feel the deflect is deadly is if I wallsplat > top heavy. Otherwise it's just a side heavy for me.
I think the deflect itself makes a different 'stagger' animation on the enemy so that the GB cannot be countered, whereas the 'stagger' animation read upon receiving a parry has been given 'counterable GB' property. Still, I hope Zerk will come out stronger than before, seeing as her max punish has been taken away, from what I've read in the recent Den.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 03:42 PM
Good thinking. Zerk's deflect could be possibly reworked too, alongside her rework? as a rep1 Zerker who often landed deflects, only time I feel the deflect is deadly is if I wallsplat > top heavy. Otherwise it's just a side heavy for me.
I think the deflect itself makes a different 'stagger' animation on the enemy so that the GB cannot be countered, whereas the 'stagger' animation read upon receiving a parry has been given 'counterable GB' property. Still, I hope Zerk will come out stronger than before, seeing as her max punish has been taken away, from what I've read in the recent Den.

yeah it's undeniable that she's one of the heros majorly effected by the changes. Hoping her rework has buffed her enough that the loss of such things don't hurt her too much.
and yeah a different stagger would make sense. Yeah her max 90 damage punish is gonzo. which imo is for the better. I like the idea of OOS punishes being harder to do but more damage. but some were just insane.

I just realized that because ranged heros will now be in range when parried that's technically a removal of deflect advantage. I mean it's for the better. but it combined with the other parry changes really makes me ponder the future of deflects.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 03:51 PM
yeah it's undeniable that she's one of the heros majorly effected by the changes. Hoping her rework has buffed her enough that the loss of such things don't hurt her too much.
and yeah a different stagger would make sense. Yeah her max 90 damage punish is gonzo. which imo is for the better. I like the idea of OOS punishes being harder to do but more damage. but some were just insane.

I just realized that because ranged heros will now be in range when parried that's technically a removal of deflect advantage. I mean it's for the better. but it combined with the other parry changes really makes me ponder the future of deflects.

Agreed. Raider's stunning tap / side heavy into zone followup does an insane damage as well. And would become punish damage king on S5 arrival, imo.

Excluding range, considering the parry changes, I think this puts parries on a more equal footing with deflects. Some deflects like Orochi's will still deal more damage than a heavy on light parry. But yeah, deflects remain harder to pull off, so I agree it's a rather mysterious turning point for what will become of deflects in the future.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 03:57 PM
Agreed. Raider's stunning tap / side heavy into zone followup does an insane damage as well. And would become punish damage king on S5 arrival, imo.

Excluding range, considering the parry changes, I think this puts parries on a more equal footing with deflects. Some deflects like Orochi's will still deal more damage than a heavy on light parry. But yeah, deflects remain harder to pull off, so I agree it's a rather mysterious turning point for what will become of deflects in the future.

yeah that should probably go aha. I don't think we should have any kind of punish that exceeds 40-50 damage.
yeah their equal. but I'm not sure if there will be a choice there still. Parry is technically still better since it's safer.
Which is why people used it more in basically every situation.

I think with orochi people will deff consider which to do.
But I don't think the choice is there on other assassins.
Like with pk I think the clear winner is still parry since her deflect has never been good.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 04:08 PM
Like with pk I think the clear winner is still parry since her deflect has never been good.

In the case of PK, I still think her GB will win. Her GB has good range (maybe the best range), and up until S5 people would parry > GB for a triple stab / stab and wallsplat combo. Now with guaranteed GB on parry gone, they'll directly go for a GB instead of parrying.

Not sure about her deflect; rarely, if ever, saw anyone pull it off..

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 04:15 PM
In the case of PK, I still think her GB will win. Her GB has good range (maybe the best range), and up until S5 people would parry > GB for a triple stab / stab and wallsplat combo. Now with guaranteed GB on parry gone, they'll directly go for a GB instead of parrying.

Not sure about her deflect; rarely, if ever, saw anyone pull it off..

yeah true she does have that ranged GB lunge from sprint.
She could mix that and her lunging forward heavy.
her deflect literally grants a bleed poke. that's it.

bob333e
02-02-2018, 04:20 PM
yeah true she does have that ranged GB lunge from sprint.
She could mix that and her lunging forward heavy.
her deflect literally grants a bleed poke. that's it.

Just one poke?? no wonder it's barely used. Well it could do in 4v4s, with feats active etc (unless it's a Warden then lolno), but in 1v1s, Glad laughs at her bleed. Glad's bleed skewer is insane and has good tracking + can wallsplat.

I wonder if Glad stole something from PK.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 04:32 PM
Just one poke?? no wonder it's barely used. Well it could do in 4v4s, with feats active etc (unless it's a Warden then lolno), but in 1v1s, Glad laughs at her bleed. Glad's bleed skewer is insane and has good tracking + can wallsplat.

I wonder if Glad stole something from PK.

Yup. Technically speaking it serves a purpose. as she's got 2 "types" of bleed. and one doesn't stack/extend the bleed with the other bleed.
I personally don't remember which bleed moves are which bleed type. I heard it off of J-Birse's stream. Where I believe she showed it off.
Or maybe it was her pk guide. I forget. either way. The deflect could serve to extend the bleed. but that's really it.
That and her soft cancel heavy into bleed poke is also useless. since it is always in the same direction. but at least that can be used to stop mix ups that use unblockable bashes.

Really she just needs a better deflect (honestly think her deflect should be zerkers) the ability to soft feint into GB from her heavy ender in combo. and able to change her bleed direction soft feint cancel. As far as buffs go anyway.

Charmzzz
02-05-2018, 08:17 AM
Really she just needs a better deflect (honestly think her deflect should be zerkers) the ability to soft feint into GB from her heavy ender in combo. and able to change her bleed direction soft feint cancel. As far as buffs go anyway.

PK was able to soft-feint any heavy into GB or the bleed cancel in a chain before the removal of timesnap. I have opened a ticket with ubi-support in, uhm I think October, and they confirmed the Bug. But still nothing. It really hurts her as it takes away any mixup options, so I have to rely even more on Zone and Lights... The heavy into bleed cancel is such a useless move from neutral, as you said it is the same direction and always gets parried. Only good vs bashes, but a Light or Zone do the trick either and are hitting harder (Zone) or lead into a Chain (Light).

Knight_Raime
02-05-2018, 07:20 PM
PK was able to soft-feint any heavy into GB or the bleed cancel in a chain before the removal of timesnap. I have opened a ticket with ubi-support in, uhm I think October, and they confirmed the Bug. But still nothing. It really hurts her as it takes away any mixup options, so I have to rely even more on Zone and Lights... The heavy into bleed cancel is such a useless move from neutral, as you said it is the same direction and always gets parried. Only good vs bashes, but a Light or Zone do the trick either and are hitting harder (Zone) or lead into a Chain (Light).

Yeah I member us talking about this.
But anytime I talk to anyone about buffing pk I just get laughed out of the convo.
i'm like. You guys hate that so many people only zone cancel and light light with her. these would give her more options worth considering and make her play much more dynamic.
I deff think she needs these buffs even more so now that her punishes will be basically non existent due to the parry changes.

I know she technically still has a meaty 40? ish damage one. can't remember how you do it. but still. I think any hero that was heavily reliant on GB's for punishes should be looked into.

Charmzzz
02-05-2018, 09:24 PM
Yeah I member us talking about this.
But anytime I talk to anyone about buffing pk I just get laughed out of the convo.
i'm like. You guys hate that so many people only zone cancel and light light with her. these would give her more options worth considering and make her play much more dynamic.
I deff think she needs these buffs even more so now that her punishes will be basically non existent due to the parry changes.

I know she technically still has a meaty 40? ish damage one. can't remember how you do it. but still. I think any hero that was heavily reliant on GB's for punishes should be looked into.

Double stab into wall stagger front dash attack with light followup is 55 Damage, triple stab is 38 damage. Not that much parry punish if compared to others.

Knight_Raime
02-05-2018, 09:45 PM
Double stab into wall stagger front dash attack with light followup is 55 Damage, triple stab is 38 damage. Not that much parry punish if compared to others.

hmm. How is the double stab going to work though when you don't get a GB after a parry anymore?
I was referring to there being a parry punish that doesn't involve a GB that might do 40 damage. I think I saw this either on here or the competitive reddit when discussing how the PK will perform punish wise now without a free GB from a parry.

Charmzzz
02-06-2018, 09:11 AM
hmm. How is the double stab going to work though when you don't get a GB after a parry anymore?
I was referring to there being a parry punish that doesn't involve a GB that might do 40 damage. I think I saw this either on here or the competitive reddit when discussing how the PK will perform punish wise now without a free GB from a parry.

Ah I see, you mean after the parry changes.
Heavy parry punish: a Light for 17 or Zone for 20 damage.
Light parry punish: a Heavy for 33 + bleed followup for 15 damage - 48 damage combined.

JadeBosson.
02-07-2018, 06:16 AM
what does it mean by ; left throws - like if I legit throw people to the left or?

Charmzzz
02-07-2018, 08:02 AM
what does it mean by ; left throws - like if I legit throw people to the left or?

Yes. Shaman could throw you to the ground with a left throw if that reduced your stamina to 0, but it should only unbalance you when you are at 0 stamina before the throw. Fixed in next update.

okelacular
02-08-2018, 06:27 PM
Wait the shinobi smoke puff cant be interrupted with a gb anymore? That means he can land a kick everytime after now unless the opponent dodges? -.- hope i understood it wrong