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broly0204
02-01-2018, 08:47 PM
I want to start off by saying thank you to the for honor team for fixing their mistake on the conqueror. It was an awful mistake but I am grateful that you took the time to fix it, shows that you are actually listening and it is much appreciated. As I said before, I am wiling to give some ideas on the conqeuror rework.

So far the conqueror rework has not been getting much hype. The first clip you showed simply displayed a light attack with superior block during start up, which he already has, with a different animation. The second thing displayed was a gb out of full gaurd stance. This feint is already possible if you know the timing, so it looks like nothing new has been added to the conqueror, simply a new animation and making it easier to do a move he already has. And then today, when talking about the rework in the stream, the commented on the conqueror saying the rework will bring some good changes, then Eric turned to Damien and said the kensei rework looks amazing. The enthusiasm drastically increased when talking about the kensei so that did not really raise my hopes either.

I don't think you should get rid of superior block with the rework. Honestly it would have been better to get rid of full gaurd and to make the conqueror feint his attacks like a normal hero, nobody cares if nobu is the only character who can feint lights. By getting rid of full gaurd you could give him a more offensive area clear, because then he wouldn't be able to go into full gaurd with area clear he has now, and he should be able to feint this new area clear into other combos. On top of this people have always thought the conqueror should have more ways to knock people to the ground, after all he is a heavy with a giant shield and a chain, so give him a sweep like the valkryie. The sweep just seems natural as he has a chain attached to his weapon.This can be done as mix up after a shield bash then light then sweep, just like the valk, however conq will not have the full gaurd velk has, but instead superior block. With this you could also give him an unblockable attack, you could either just mix it in as a heavy at some point or, what I have heard and thought is a good idea is mix it in with his new area clear, like a shaman raider combo. Make the first part of his area clear a normal attack, but give it a second part like the shaman but make the second part unblockable like the raider, this should be the part the conqueror can then feint either into a bash, gb or sweep, giving him a new opener, great combo and a sweep so velk is no longer the only one with it. However getting rid of superior block all together eliminates the conquerors special defensive ability which each heavy has, the shugo has hyper armor, the warlord has deflect/superior block or whatever you want to call it with his full gaurd and the ability to punish anyone who attacks him while in that position, if you get rid of the conquerors superior block he will not have a special defensive ability like the other heavies.

Please the more thoughts the better, this is a friendly debat thread meant to help mold a better conqueror for season 5.

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 11:17 AM
1) Far as I know the only way to confirm a light off of a block right now is if you full block an attack. I forget what dash block gives. Even if dash block gives a light it still gives him an option to get in from neutral. Which is good. But a conq main on here said it also could have just been a really fast full block use. so we don't know.

2) Yes the feint is possible. But now if it has it's own input it paints a clear picture.

3) Superior block isn't gone in the rework. Just from neutral. You now have to perform an action to get it.

None of the teasers can be accurately stated as to how much or how little we've seen of the reworks. I wouldn't jump the gun and assume that what we saw is everything. In my opinion they showed a lot of use on the full block mode. To me this means his rework is focused around it. Which means on top of making what he already does with it (psuedo feinting and the like) easier/more natural he's probably got a new option or 2 to go along with it. I actually really like this direction. To me it still cements him as being the defensive guy. But now his kit is more interactive. So it doesn't feel like you're just beating on a non interactive wall.

Xaviloga
02-02-2018, 12:43 PM
3) Superior block isn't gone in the rework. Just from neutral. You now have to perform an action to get it.

What action? Something like perform a parry? Whats the point of full block then?

Knight_Raime
02-02-2018, 01:17 PM
What action? Something like perform a parry? Whats the point of full block then?

Full block and dash into attacks both still bounce attacks off of you like superior block did. I also think it's activated when blocking externally in a team fight. But I can't recall. I just know it's something related to blocking an attack in a combo or something of the like.

Brologna_Xeno
02-02-2018, 07:04 PM
I'm worried about Parry into GB being removed from Conqueror, is it too much to hope they'll get a guaranteed Shield Bash off parry? Heavies got to ledge, man. lol

broly0204
02-02-2018, 07:25 PM
full block does not knock them back right now, they can do a full combo on you while in full gaurd, its the warlords full gaurd that ends combos, is that something they are going to add in with the rework? Giving conq similar full gaurd to warlord? Bc if it is, agian we do not want it, we would rather have superior block. And your right, they did remove superior block on conqs light, what I meant is it was something could already do in past, now just giving it back?

UbiJurassic
02-02-2018, 08:40 PM
The team knows that Conqueror is very precious to some players, which is why he was a primary candidate for a rework and why we looked to revert the accidental change that came in the last patch. Hopefully you're excited for next week when we will finally get into the details of the reworks players have been greatly looking forward to. :)

SoulEavens
02-02-2018, 09:36 PM
@Ubijurassic

Do we get to keep our Superior Block? In the Announcment it said until the Season 5 Rework. Why do you want too remove it! It's one of the most importend parts f Conqueror he really doesn't need a nerf! Actually he doesn't need a rework Either, he just needs to get his Damage Values a bit buffed and he is Fine!

The Superior Block is the Feature that really helps Conqueror. I don't mind if it isn't Auto Parry on Hevy Block anymore, but it should always (!) do that mini Interrupt it also does on Light attacks, this is what keeps Conqueror von getting Combo, so he can actually save himself from getting Light spammed to death!

UbiJurassic
02-02-2018, 09:41 PM
@Ubijurassic

Do we get to keep our Superior Block? In the Announcment it said until the Season 5 Rework. Why do you want too remove it! It's one of the most importend parts f Conqueror he really doesn't need a nerf! Actually he doesn't need a rework Either, he just needs to get his Damage Values a bit buffed and he is Fine!

The Superior Block is the Feature that really helps Conqueror. I don't mind if it isn't Auto Parry on Hevy Block anymore, but it should always (!) do that mini Interrupt it also does on Light attacks, this is what keeps Conqueror von getting Combo, so he can actually save himself from getting Light spammed to death!

When Season 5 launches, the removal of his Superior Block that accidentally came with patch 1.18 will return. However, the change will make a lot more sense with the inclusion of all his rework changes in the update. Details on those changes will be available next week.

Tundra 793
02-02-2018, 10:21 PM
I think all you Conq mains out there should really wait until the 8th, when we can finally see his rework in action, to start these big discussions.

Every argument you're making now, you're making without knowing all the important facts. You're trying to solve the equation without any of the variables. You're complaining your cheeseburger doesn't have bacon on it before the cook's done making it.

Just one more week and you can all finally see the big picture. One more week after that, and you can all be playing it and experience the whole rework for yourselves.

broly0204
02-03-2018, 09:30 AM
I am just trying to provide warning and suggestions before it comes out and gets bad reviews. Not being mean. Just had another thought, you may be worried that if you leave superior block it will be unfair because he will be the only character to get a gb after a heavy. You can take that away and leave the superior block, that is not the most important part of superior block, the most important part is ending combos and getting opponents to back off. Giving the conqueror simply a shield bash and light after blocking a heavy would be fine, even just a light would be fine, if you increased the speed of the conq's light attack it would be possible, which should be part of his rework since his light is that slow. Leave superior block please, its not about the gb after heavy, although it is nice, the main thing is ending combos and making your opponent think twice before he just keeps swinging away, makes it more of a thinking game and forces both players to play smart, both offensively and defensively.

Tundra 793
02-03-2018, 10:48 PM
I am just trying to provide warning and suggestions before it comes out and gets bad reviews. Not being mean.

No one said you were being mean, but you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. You're trying to review a movie you've only seen 10 minutes of.

The rework is much more extensive than just removing the Superior Block, and you need to see the rest of the rework in order to fully understand how it works. As I'm understanding it, the Conqueror will play much differently than he has up to this point, so he won't actually need Superior Block like he does now.

Just 2 weeks dude, and it'll all make sense.

T1brys
02-04-2018, 12:16 AM
I think all you Conq mains out there should really wait until the 8th, when we can finally see his rework in action, to start these big discussions.

Every argument you're making now, you're making without knowing all the important facts. You're trying to solve the equation without any of the variables. You're complaining your cheeseburger doesn't have bacon on it before the cook's done making it.

Just one more week and you can all finally see the big picture. One more week after that, and you can all be playing it and experience the whole rework for yourselves.

impressive, for once we agree on something.

The_B0G_
02-04-2018, 02:02 AM
I love the flail, it's what I always used playing Chivalry, I can't wait to try him out. He just didn't have enough to offer for me before, too 1 dimensional.

Tundra 793
02-04-2018, 05:44 AM
impressive, for once we agree on something.

I don't think we ever disagreed on anything, It was just bugging me that you, and broly for that matter, wouldn't stop asking about the Superior Block bug even though no one here could give you the answer you wanted.
Now that it's been fixed, my position hasn't changed and you get your 2 weeks of Superior Block back.

But at the end of the day, you, broly and all the other Conqs out there are gonna have to learn to live without it, in some capacity.

My position was always, and this extends to all the Conquerors, Kenseis, Nobushis and Berserkers out there; let's wait and see what the Reworks will give us, before we start complaining again.

broly0204
02-06-2018, 10:31 PM
To be honest I am kind of scared to wait, we always wait and end up getting disappointed because it seems like you do things top down. You could simply send out questionnares/evaluations to people who have a certain amount of time playing the conqueror and ask them what they think would make him better, or at least hint at what we are getting, because as I said this rework is scary, it almost feels like it will be a nerf since taking the superior block away is definitely a nerf and will need a lot and I mean a lot to make up for it.

Vrbas1
02-06-2018, 11:30 PM
To be honest I am kind of scared to wait, we always wait and end up getting disappointed because it seems like you do things top down. You could simply send out questionnares/evaluations to people who have a certain amount of time playing the conqueror and ask them what they think would make him better, or at least hint at what we are getting, because as I said this rework is scary, it almost feels like it will be a nerf since taking the superior block away is definitely a nerf and will need a lot and I mean a lot to make up for it.

Problem with that is hypothetical/projected data vs hard data. Playing Conq as much as I do, I could probably tell you how it's going to go. But it's all theoretical until it's released in a live environment. It's especially sensitive to some other core mechanics that will release with it (other hero reworks, dedicated servers, parry changes). While I sympathize with your plight, live data will almost always trump what we think will/might happen, which is why it's done the way it's being done.

Armosias
02-07-2018, 01:26 PM
Problem with that is hypothetical/projected data vs hard data. Playing Conq as much as I do, I could probably tell you how it's going to go. But it's all theoretical until it's released in a live environment. It's especially sensitive to some other core mechanics that will release with it (other hero reworks, dedicated servers, parry changes). While I sympathize with your plight, live data will almost always trump what we think will/might happen, which is why it's done the way it's being done.
You cannot tell how it will turn out, they change a lot of things on him and neutral superior block was very powerful and would have been even without free gb. Now maybe they'll do ****, I don't think so when I look at what did raider become after a minor rework. Anyway we'll find out tomorrow in the stream, hope you're as hyped for this as I am!