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Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 02:40 AM
There is the big hype for dedicated servers, but I am going to make this "prediction" more or less for fun, but most likely it will happen like this :rolleyes:

First there will be a big hurray for a short time and players will come back to For Honor, but after a short while people will start to deal with the major problem in this game, that can't "simply" be fixed with the introduction of servers.

The core game itself ...

Me personally I had a wonderful connection and so I am not affected by this DS-hype. For me it does not change anything at all.

The reason I never play this game longer then an hour maybe 3 times a week is simple:
The game is too repetitive, too one-dimensional, too poor in terms of ingame mechanics.
People will leave again, because most people can't be wrapped around the finger by being given the same 7minutes-scenario over and over again without any real dynamism.


Dominion is the largest scale battle For Honor has to offer and seen from the eye of what it COULD BE, a complete joke with that paper soldiers in the B-clutch and that's it!
This mode has not gone through any bigger improvment since E3 2015 ...

There is no deeper mechanics, or siege feeling, or destructible environment, or deeper way to interact with the environment, or simple soldiers outside of Zone B :p
The battle is over, when the gate is broken - finish
Ubi did completely waste the potential of the army aspect itself and any potential "battle strategy" you can order the KI minions on how to take the fort. Maybe also like having a way up after the gate is broken with archer towers, that only minions can infiltrate by climbing up the stairs and killing the archers, or having minions in controlled Zones A and C, or being able to make little combat adjustments to minions, etc.
There is NO CREATIVITY in Dominon at all!

They ultimatively failed to get that action from the campaign into Multiplayer!
We got promissed a massive battle simulator and we got a more or less medieval Tekken.

Even adding 18 more heroes won't fix that.


There is no deeper character adjustment from the gameplay aspect, just some little stats tweaking and some are popular and some are not.

People don't like to play pre-determined heroes, they like to make their own ones and try them out on the battlefield (eventhough this is a bit more understandable, because it would need an incredible amount of Mo-Capping to make so many options).


The combat system is great (no doubt), but that's pretty much it for long term ...

It is very unlikely that Ubi would put it's hand so deeply in the money pocket to actually FIX THAT! by not expanding the game but DEEPENING it!


I personally don't care, about the progression system, lootboxes and micro-transactions ... I prefere that Ubi gets some extra money by selling steel before having them sell me their DLCs.


I talked with many people about For Honor, and what I wrote is exactly what the told me and what is also my own opinion.
This is what the wide audience says ... and the player numbers can be seen in the web (and no, I am not starting with this 95% playerbase loss bullsh*t)

The only thing that makes me play even these 3-4 hours per week is the combat system and the idea of knights-samurai-vikings.



People will play some matches without any interruption and recognize this major flaw at least at this point and not really much will change, but hopefully I am wrong ^^

bmason1000
01-31-2018, 05:04 AM
Agree to disagree, i guess? I play somewhere around 10 or 12 hours a week i guess and its the only game I've played since release. I love it.

Vrbas1
01-31-2018, 06:32 AM
I both agree and disagree. To me, it's a deep combat system that despite me "customizing" my own hero [so to speak] is nonetheless very rewarding with the current cast.

That being said, Dominion has suffered over time in that I feel it's a shortcoming or half-*** what it could be - siege mode as you mentioned.

Tundra 793
01-31-2018, 06:46 AM
We got promissed a massive battle simulator and we got a more or less medieval Tekken.


I think, if this is the crux of your argument, you're wrong.

For Honor, as I've understood and experienced it, was never advertised or promised as a large scale battle simulator. For Honor's core concept, is the Art of Battle system. The entire game, as I've understood it from Jason VandenBerghe, is just a framing device for this 1 system.
You highlight Dominion as the nexus of all For Honor gameplay, and while it's surely the most popular gamemode, it's only one of many. The siege/battle aspect you're describing only appears in the Story mode, and Dominion. That leaves us with 5 other gamemodes, where the focus, rightly I think, lies in more personal combat between the players.

Dominion is popular, and players have long wanted a bigger gamemode, but For Honor is about the Art of Battle, and intense, personal fighting between the players. That's what we were meant to be sold on, but if you only want bigger, more siege-esque game modes, For Honor might not be the game you want.

Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 10:51 AM
I think, if this is the crux of your argument, you're wrong.

For Honor, as I've understood and experienced it, was never advertised or promised as a large scale battle simulator. For Honor's core concept, is the Art of Battle system. The entire game, as I've understood it from Jason VandenBerghe, is just a framing device for this 1 system.
You highlight Dominion as the nexus of all For Honor gameplay, and while it's surely the most popular gamemode, it's only one of many. The siege/battle aspect you're describing only appears in the Story mode, and Dominion. That leaves us with 5 other gamemodes, where the focus, rightly I think, lies in more personal combat between the players.

Dominion is popular, and players have long wanted a bigger gamemode, but For Honor is about the Art of Battle, and intense, personal fighting between the players. That's what we were meant to be sold on, but if you only want bigger, more siege-esque game modes, For Honor might not be the game you want.

Well that with the big combat simulator is from VandenBerghe himself said. If you watch that video, about about the early stages of For Honor that lasts about 2 hours his says that pretty much with the same words. And also the other devs praised this attribute at the very beginning after the announcement.
Why do you that they chose Dominion to show-off their game at the announcement?

Dominion is popular, because it's the closest approximation to what people want to play. Duell is good for training.
The rest of the modes (beside Tribute) is completely under-used.
There is always (very) low activity for reason.

This is not the crux of my argumentation, but the reason why the playerbase is what it is. What the fighting system offers is innovative, but the whole game can not rely only on that for fox sake?!

All the other aspects come way to short!

The most popular reasons why people left the game are connectivity and the lack of deepness.
When the network doesn't make any problems, certain people will be able to try those few things they weren't able to and many or most of them will leave again, like those who had no major connection problem, when Dominion and Duell bored the heck out of them.

A funny quote of a friend of mine: "it feels like a prototype that already got DLCs"

About 1 month and we will see if anything changes.

Furthermore ... the game is almost in year 2.
It is unlikely that any big changes will happen now (Ded Servers are in work since season 2). That big and deep stuff is what the devs should have focus on, instead of wasting so much time and ressources in ranked, Skirmish and maybe also Elimination.

If the DS doesn't revive the game from the dead, nothing else will.

PDXGorechild
01-31-2018, 12:59 PM
This is not the crux of my argumentation, but the reason why the playerbase is what it is. What the fighting system offers is innovative, but the whole game can not rely only on that for fox sake?!.

Disagree, the whole game can and does rely on this. As Tundra said, the maps and game modes are simply framework for the fighting system, which is innovative and in my opinion extremely engaging. More so than almost any other game I've played. There's very little else in the world I can sit and do for 5+ hours, but playing For Honor is one of them. The learning curve is massive. I'm rank 40 on Berserker and still learning things I can do with him in different situations. I've enough to learn about other classes to keep me happy for years to come I imagine.

It is not a large scale battle simulator. It is, basically, Medieval Tekken where you can run about a map and do things, rather than just seeing two characters facing each other in a single room with a backdrop like the classical fighting games. It's a niche market for sure, but they've totally nailed I think.

The player base for this game is never going to be huge. The main reason it's a very small player base as opposed to just small is the connectivity issues. I had friends that liked the game but not enough to put up with the disconnects and other problems P2P servers bring. I think the dedicated servers will draw enough people back.

I'd like more game modes. 8v8 Siege is a must. They could do with spicing up dominion and reworking elimination and skirmish modes. But at the end of the day the game will always boil down to one thing: You and the person in front of you.

Knight_Raime
01-31-2018, 01:35 PM
Game was never advertized as a large scale battle simulator. The major focus was and still is the art of battle system.

Dedi's are clammered for because of random match drops. With dedi's being added in this won't happen. and if there was ever any kind of advantage gained from lagging it will be gone.
Players will still lag. And you will still be able to see this.
The real gem for me is when they flip on lag comp after the dedi's have been out for a bit. This will make fights feel a ton better again.

Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 01:43 PM
Disagree, the whole game can and does rely on this. As Tundra said, the maps and game modes are simply framework for the fighting system, which is innovative and in my opinion extremely engaging. More so than almost any other game I've played. There's very little else in the world I can sit and do for 5+ hours, but playing For Honor is one of them. The learning curve is massive. I'm rank 40 on Berserker and still learning things I can do with him in different situations. I've enough to learn about other classes to keep me happy for years to come I imagine.

It is not a large scale battle simulator. It is, basically, Medieval Tekken where you can run about a map and do things, rather than just seeing two characters facing each other in a single room with a backdrop like the classical fighting games. It's a niche market for sure, but they've totally nailed I think.

The player base for this game is never going to be huge. The main reason it's a very small player base as opposed to just small is the connectivity issues. I had friends that liked the game but not enough to put up with the disconnects and other problems P2P servers bring. I think the dedicated servers will draw enough people back.


It can of course ... but with 2000 players active on steam on average, while games with much less potential have numbers above 20k or 30k.
Fortunately every game has it's fanatics and same with For Honor.

But the player numbers indicate, that there is something terribly going wrong.

Maybe you enjoy duelling till eternity, but the player numbers don't lie about what most people think.

And Dedicated Servers won't change much, despite maybe bring a new bunch of "fanatics" (in the positive manor) and maybe raise the number up to 3k or 4k, but not more.

Wait 1 month and we can diescuss about it.



I'd like more game modes. 8v8 Siege is a must. They could do with spicing up dominion and reworking elimination and skirmish modes. But at the end of the day the game will always boil down to one thing: You and the person in front of you.

This is exactly what would actually help the game, but most likely it won't happen. The person in front of you with the "Art of Battle" is exactly what makes the combat system unique, and that's the point I am saying. It is more or less a wasted concept, because it is left alone without any bigger and complex ingame mechanic coming for support.

For the average player, this is not enough to hook up for longer then 3-4 weeks --> visible in the player numbers



Game was never advertized as a large scale battle simulator. The major focus was and still is the art of battle system.

Acutally it was!

Just as an example is the video from VandenBerghe I mentioned earlier, he said he wants this (showing an image of an 3rd person sword fighting game) mixxed with this (showing an image of medieval 2 total war, which is a mass battle strategy game).

I am glad you like it how it is, but don't say it was ment to be like this from the very beginning, because it isn't ... it was just cheaper to leave out the mass aspect and reduce it to the present scale.



Just to repeat. this is just my prediction for when the Deds are here, and what I am saying is based on numbers for everybody visible who has Google. I am not making this game "bad", but just talking why the numbers are tiny, and why.

R-a-g-e.
01-31-2018, 01:57 PM
First there will be a big hurray for a short time and players will come back to For Honor, but after a short while people will start to deal with the major problem in this game, that can't "simply" be fixed with the introduction of servers.

The core game itself ...



I guess this might really come true.
Dedicated servers might solve one problem but there will be many other problems too.
There are still bugs that exist for months, the matchmaking is still not fair (I often play together with people < prestige 10 and they just have no chance), characters are unbalanced and many of the existing modes are dead (on PC I cannot find any tribute match PvP anymore).

I know that they will bring dedicated servers but I think that they are not able to fix the rest of the problems because they were not able to fix in within a year.

PDXGorechild
01-31-2018, 02:04 PM
This is exactly what would actually help the game, but most likely it won't happen. The person in front of you with the "Art of Battle" is exactly what makes the combat system unique, and that's the point I am saying. It is more or less a wasted concept, because it is left alone without any bigger and complex ingame mechanic coming for support..

I see what you mean, but I am still hopeful. I think an 8v8 mode is highly likely given that so many players have expressed a desire for it, which the Ubi representatives have acknowledged. They have listened to us and implemented, albeit slowly, in the past.

Dedicated servers alone won't make the game huge overnight. But it gives them the platform on which to do much more with the game, especially things like larger battles with more players involved. They've filled the roster, they're reworking and rebalancing old classes and new, they're tweaking the fight system, faction war and giving us something to do with spare loot, and we'll have dedicated servers in the very near future. The next logical step has to be new game modes.


I guess this might really come true.
Dedicated servers might solve one problem but there will be many other problems too.
There are still bugs that exist for months, the matchmaking is still not fair (I often play together with people < prestige 10 and they just have no chance), characters are unbalanced and many of the existing modes are dead (on PC I cannot find any tribute match PvP anymore).

I know that they will bring dedicated servers but I think that they are not able to fix the rest of the problems because they were not able to fix in within a year.


I very rarely see any bugs in game on PS4. Bad matchmaking is a result of low population due to server issues, something the dedicated servers may solve mostly. Balance is and always will be a work in progress. They've taken their time, yeah, but I really think we may be about to see the light.

We'll know for sure, soon™....

Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 02:23 PM
Not to get me wrong, I really hope that FH will rise to the top, but I just can not see that the major problem beside connectivity is being solved anhow.

Xaviloga
01-31-2018, 02:33 PM
Season 5 at 15 Feb. is too late, dedicated server or not. Two days earlier, 13 Feb., is the release date of Kingdom Come Deliverance. We will see, but i think this will hurt a lot FH.

Devils-_-legacy
01-31-2018, 03:13 PM
I don't I've played a early build of Kingdom cd it's good but the fighting itself is nothing like for honor

GeneraISoIo
01-31-2018, 03:43 PM
I don't I've played a early build of Kingdom cd it's good but the fighting itself is nothing like for honor

I agree, it doesn't look like it holds a candle to this melee system. I also think the Dev's need to move fast once the dedicated servers are in place. I will be back at the beginning of Season 5 just to get familiar with the changes they made to my heroes. Then I won't be on till dedicated servers. I will then be on until that gets old. From launch I have invisioned large scaled battles for this game. I have mentioned this before in other posts, but the fan base that enjoys dueling are the only players left. If they want to brings other player back, they will need to pander the the audience that left and appeal to bigger modes. Pretty simple.

R-a-g-e.
01-31-2018, 03:48 PM
I very rarely see any bugs in game on PS4. Bad matchmaking is a result of low population due to server issues, something the dedicated servers may solve mostly. Balance is and always will be a work in progress. They've taken their time, yeah, but I really think we may be about to see the light.



On PC there are still many bugs:

- Sometimes matches do not end even when one team already won. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-wsZMs2Yuc)
- When I join a match then I sometimes the camera stays in bird's-eye view and I see my character but cannot do anything. Killing me doesn't help. The match has to be over or I have to leave the match.
- Sometimes the camera doesn't concentrate, on my character. I only see the environment but not my character.
- When you throw people from ledges then they sometimes fall down and appear above and are totally pulled apart. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcm55eUWkHU)
- When you stay at ledges then sometimes you suddenly fall down even when nobody attacked you (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRxfII_m1eU)
- When you kill enemies then they sometimes fly around (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohKdh-XbrpE)

Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 04:06 PM
I agree, it doesn't look like it holds a candle to this melee system. I also think the Dev's need to move fast once the dedicated servers are in place. I will be back at the beginning of Season 5 just to get familiar with the changes they made to my heroes. Then I won't be on till dedicated servers. I will then be on until that gets old. From launch I have invisioned large scaled battles for this game. I have mentioned this before in other posts, but the fan base that enjoys dueling are the only players left. If they want to brings other player back, they will need to pander the the audience that left and appeal to bigger modes. Pretty simple.

That's the way to get the numbers rise rapidly.

DoctorMcBatman
01-31-2018, 06:57 PM
I made this thread a few weeks ago and got no replies. But I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It seems we are in the minority; but yes, FH is not the game I thought it would be when I first learned about in 2013. My hypothesis in my thread was the decision to use a P2P networking architecture radically shifted what the game could be. P2P can barely host 4v4 - no way a siege or large, destructible map would run smoothly. And I doubly agree there were even opportunities like you mentioned, to make Dominion as it is now more interesting - but alas, no. There's a pool of brainless minions in the middle, two small bases on either end - with one or both usually having several ledge areas/confined areas.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote in OP. The multiplayer game modes are not interesting enough for long term sustainability (we see this already: good luck finding a PvP Brawl or Elimination on PC). We know player count on PC is fairly low, even if you estimate additional platforms like Uplay. Not sure about on console. I suppose enough people are buying Steel that they can continue to run the game/team off of that? Who knows?

But yes, FH is a fun game. But it's not the be-all-end-all medieval war game I thought it would be.

Those of you who are saying "FH was never going to be this," I presume you started following FH too late to be aware of this. Look up videos of the game in 2013, you'll see something quite different from what we have now.

I'm looking forward to Mordhau and Kingdom Come, but I don't think either will have as riveting combat as FH.

EDIT: And your Tekken analogy is spot on IMO, I literally said the same thing in my thread, hah.

Tundra 793
01-31-2018, 07:08 PM
Look up videos of the game in 2013, you'll see something quite different from what we have now.

For Honor wasn't revealed until 2015, and it only started development in 2012. I couldn't find any official footage of For Honor from 2013, presumably because it wasn't meant to be seen then.

DoctorMcBatman
01-31-2018, 07:25 PM
For Honor wasn't revealed until 2015, and it only started development in 2012. I couldn't find any official footage of For Honor from 2013, presumably because it wasn't meant to be seen then.

I can't find it now, but there is absolutely footage pre-2015. I'll look a bit more and see if I can provide a link. And here it is, it's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o

FH was officially announced in 2015, but the developers talked openly about the game prior to that. I'm pretty sure I discovered the game via YT videos the devs published early on in development.

EDIT: I may have misquoted the year when I said 2013, I thought the last video I saw said 2013, but this one doesn't. Either way, this footage is not the game that was released.

Okita_Soji..
01-31-2018, 07:36 PM
That looked amazing fighting the minions and then the catapults coming in running up to that the zone to control a catapult. Wow where is that game...

Tundra 793
01-31-2018, 07:37 PM
I can't find it now, but there is absolutely footage pre-2015. I'll look a bit more and see if I can provide a link. And here it is, it's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o

FH was officially announced in 2015, but the developers talked openly about the game prior to that.

EDIT: I may have misquoted the year when I said 2013, but this footage is not the game that was released.

Right, I have actually seen the whole GDC presentation that Jason did (I believe this is the one Illyrian alluded to earlier as well) and that footage was not intended for public viewing. It was very early, proof of concept stuff meant to help Jason pitch his ideas of For Honor, which again, was based largely around his idea of a unique melee combat system.
Basing your ideas of what For Honor could/should have been on these very, very early versions of For Honor is like reading a first draft of Empire Strikes Back, and feeling like Luke and Leia should have hooked up.

The 2015 gameplay footage from E3 is so very close to the final product, barring some largely cosmetic changes, I don't think you can say that you got a different game, than what you were shown at the official reveal.


Just to summarize my overall thoughts; Dominion isn't what For Honor's all about, and not all of the developers focus needs to go into Dominion. For Honor was never advertised as a large scale siege/battle simulator. It's all about the Art of Battle.
That's not to say there isn't room for bigger game modes (6v6 or 8v8 is often suggested), but bigger battles is not the be-all-end-all of For Honor.

Knight_Raime
01-31-2018, 07:57 PM
I can't find it now, but there is absolutely footage pre-2015. I'll look a bit more and see if I can provide a link. And here it is, it's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o

FH was officially announced in 2015, but the developers talked openly about the game prior to that. I'm pretty sure I discovered the game via YT videos the devs published early on in development.

EDIT: I may have misquoted the year when I said 2013, I thought the last video I saw said 2013, but this one doesn't. Either way, this footage is not the game that was released.

The footage you see in the GDC pannel was never shown to the public till post launch. It was made mainly for them to pitch their idea and get support for it from publishers. Not to mention going back and looking at the first official video footage given to the public shows that the product we have now is pretty similar to what we saw as a first reveal. In other words we were not mislead in the slightest.

They might have painted a picture about war itself with dominion. But that's more contextual fluff to hype. Not to give an accurate representation of the final product. You can see the emphasis in the pre alpha reveal to the public on the art of battle system. you can also see how the heros have more distinct personality and the foot soldiers are made generic on purpose to be less important and bolster the uniqueness of the cast.

I do like from that unreleased footage the gritty nature of the style. I also wouldn't mind if we got a bigger mode or just made dominion bigger and more cinimatic. But I don't think it's cool to say we were mislead. when we factually were not.

Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 07:59 PM
I made this thread a few weeks ago and got no replies. But I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It seems we are in the minority; but yes, FH is not the game I thought it would be when I first learned about in 2013. My hypothesis in my thread was the decision to use a P2P networking architecture radically shifted what the game could be. P2P can barely host 4v4 - no way a siege or large, destructible map would run smoothly. And I doubly agree there were even opportunities like you mentioned, to make Dominion as it is now more interesting - but alas, no. There's a pool of brainless minions in the middle, two small bases on either end - with one or both usually having several ledge areas/confined areas.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote in OP. The multiplayer game modes are not interesting enough for long term sustainability (we see this already: good luck finding a PvP Brawl or Elimination on PC). We know player count on PC is fairly low, even if you estimate additional platforms like Uplay. Not sure about on console. I suppose enough people are buying Steel that they can continue to run the game/team off of that? Who knows?

But yes, FH is a fun game. But it's not the be-all-end-all medieval war game I thought it would be.

Those of you who are saying "FH was never going to be this," I presume you started following FH too late to be aware of this. Look up videos of the game in 2013, you'll see something quite different from what we have now.

I'm looking forward to Mordhau and Kingdom Come, but I don't think either will have as riveting combat as FH.

EDIT: And your Tekken analogy is spot on IMO, I literally said the same thing in my thread, hah.

Exactly my mind!

Unfortunately I didn't read your post, but if you also called it "medieval Tekken" it must mean, that it is an accurate comparison ^^



That looked amazing fighting the minions and then the catapults coming in running up to that the zone to control a catapult. Wow where is that game...

Heck yes, and this was all possible, but it would have been more expensive to create ...



Right, I have actually seen the whole GDC presentation that Jason did (I believe this is the one Illyrian alluded to earlier as well) and that footage was not intended for public viewing. It was very early, proof of concept stuff meant to help Jason pitch his ideas of For Honor, which again, was based largely around his idea of a unique melee combat system.
Basing your ideas of what For Honor could/should have been on these very, very early versions of For Honor is like reading a first draft of Empire Strikes Back, and feeling like Luke and Leia should have hooked up.

The 2015 gameplay footage from E3 is so very close to the final product, barring some largely cosmetic changes, I don't think you can say that you got a different game, than what you were shown at the official reveal.


Just to summarize my overall thoughts; Dominion isn't what For Honor's all about, and not all of the developers focus needs to go into Dominion. For Honor was never advertised as a large scale siege/battle simulator. It's all about the Art of Battle.
That's not to say there isn't room for bigger game modes (6v6 or 8v8 is often suggested), but bigger battles is not the be-all-end-all of For Honor.

Same like DoctorMcBatman I watched the developement from the very beginnning, and the actual game is just the little brother's shadow in comparison what it could have been.

It is very hard to find any proper sources now, but also on google news there have been several posts about FH, where devs talked about "realistic and epic battle simulations" in their quotes.
This was around the time of the reveal, so actually we got promissed something different.

Eventhough the "Art Of Battle" is the heart of the game, but the rest has mostly been thrown away.

Of course the devs should not put ALL of their effort in Dominion and Mass Battle Sieges, but actually there is literally NOTHING in this area since reveal 2015!

Tundra, I respect you now even more since you make the Den Recaps, but I followed the game developement since the tiniest leak was available.

And as it is now, it does not work in terms of wide audience attraction. Nobody can deny that.

Knight_Raime
01-31-2018, 09:10 PM
@Illyrian_King

Are you really implying you some how saw/heard of this footage or their process before they went public with more info?
Even if I can believe that to be "leaked" and you happen to see it that still doesn't change the situation.

The actual footage given to the public is basically what we got in the full game. So you can't make the claim accurately that we were mislead.
Anything said prior to that footage being shown to the public can be chalked up as concepts and ideas. Not representations of the final product.

"realistic and epic battle simulations" is a very open ended statement my dude. You can easily describe dominion as is right now in the same way. You'd disagree though because you currently have the knowledge of what the game actually plays like. Also no where in that statement was a promise.

"the rest" to you is something not released to the public and fluff meant to hype the game. You're drawing your own headcannon and getting upset because the game didn't meet your idea of a game.

For honor was never going to attract a wide audience. Even if it was exactly what you wanted. It's a non traditional fighter. You nor I can accurately state how sucessfull that version of for honor would be. Nor can you accurately state that if they brought in some type of siege mode in now that it would make for honor a main stay title. As I said to the other guy. I'm completely fine with them bringing in that kind of mode. i'd welcome it. My issue lies with your false claim of being mislead.

But i'll humor you. Say that pre release not shown to public footage was the footage they showed the public. and then the game changed mid development. and we got the for honor we currently have. Do you know how typical it is for games to take massive changes during development? In fact in that very video that was shown of the GDC pannel they openly stated they made and scrapped over 400 different versions of the game. The footage you so want to be a reality is one of those. Not that hard to understand.

I can understand being upset about it not being the game you wanted. I just think you're over reaching trying to justify your feelings. You don't need to justify them. i'd much rather see a post from you or someone else going into depth on how they'ed like a siege mode done. with tons of detail. Than trying to shame the devs simply because your headcannon was shattered.

wolfman25br
01-31-2018, 09:30 PM
They ultimatively failed to get that action from the campaign into Multiplayer!
We got promissed a massive battle simulator and we got a more or less medieval Tekken.



Other multyplayer games modes like Exaustion onTitanfall 2 represent better battle scenarios (more npc variation etc). TF2 has impeccable server service.

I'm curious if with the new service of the dedicated servers will be possible the structure of the game support more complex modes like siege, or even a dominion with more players on each side.
it surprises me that archery npcs have not been included as minions in the main game mode, or even captains... anyway maybe the dedicated server can support a more "complete" battle scenario.

cudos for the comparison, kinda of unffair though:eek:

Illyrian_King
01-31-2018, 10:53 PM
@Illyrian_King

Are you really implying you some how saw/heard of this footage or their process before they went public with more info?
Even if I can believe that to be "leaked" and you happen to see it that still doesn't change the situation.

The actual footage given to the public is basically what we got in the full game. So you can't make the claim accurately that we were mislead.
Anything said prior to that footage being shown to the public can be chalked up as concepts and ideas. Not representations of the final product.

"realistic and epic battle simulations" is a very open ended statement my dude. You can easily describe dominion as is right now in the same way. You'd disagree though because you currently have the knowledge of what the game actually plays like. Also no where in that statement was a promise.

"Realistic and epic battle simulations" was writen in a context the way I mean it.



"the rest" to you is something not released to the public and fluff meant to hype the game. You're drawing your own headcannon and getting upset because the game didn't meet your idea of a game.

Yes it was not released because it was expensive to create and ht potential was ripped down. Greetings from the player numbers. In this discussion i really start to love this word ^^



For honor was never going to attract a wide audience. Even if it was exactly what you wanted. It's a non traditional fighter.

This sounds like a joke ;b
Exactly this "non traditional fighter" stuff is not the reason for the low player pool, but the only last bastion that keeps even the last few players here from leaving.



You nor I can accurately state how sucessfull that version of for honor would be. Nor can you accurately state that if they brought in some type of siege mode in now that it would make for honor a main stay title. As I said to the other guy. I'm completely fine with them bringing in that kind of mode. i'd welcome it. My issue lies with your false claim of being mislead.

I can just say, that the pre-release-footage we talked about was anticipated by the absolut majority of the people in this forum and on reddit.

So yeah ... it would have been successful ;)
At least way more then the actual version.
Also the wide opinion is that the game lacks in content, so what are you trying to convince me off?



But i'll humor you. Say that pre release not shown to public footage was the footage they showed the public. and then the game changed mid development. and we got the for honor we currently have. Do you know how typical it is for games to take massive changes during development? In fact in that very video that was shown of the GDC pannel they openly stated they made and scrapped over 400 different versions of the game. The footage you so want to be a reality is one of those. Not that hard to understand.

I can understand being upset about it not being the game you wanted. I just think you're over reaching trying to justify your feelings. You don't need to justify them. i'd much rather see a post from you or someone else going into depth on how they'ed like a siege mode done. with tons of detail

Seems like you are one of the guys, who started to spectate the game developement somewhen later on after announcement ...

I am not the only one claiming that there was stuff visible before E3 2015

Yes they went the different way in developrment because it was way cheaper and now the fall flatly on their face because the wide audience is not attracted.

In mid-developement changes happen indeed, but is it really in your mind to claim, that the mentioned footage is worse then the actual Dominion?? You can't be serious to claim that such a change was made to "improve" the game.



Than trying to shame the devs simply because your headcannon was shattered

You forget that the headline of this thread contains the word "prediction" ... you are getting something wrong. This is about making a wage statement, before the thing actally happened.

CandleInTheDark
02-01-2018, 02:26 AM
This is exactly what would actually help the game, but most likely it won't happen. The person in front of you with the "Art of Battle" is exactly what makes the combat system unique, and that's the point I am saying. It is more or less a wasted concept, because it is left alone without any bigger and complex ingame mechanic coming for support.

For the average player, this is not enough to hook up for longer then 3-4 weeks --> visible in the player numbers


Don't get me wrong, I would love to see what they can do with stability and maybe more numbers but I don't think this argument holds true when you consider rocket league. If anything it is shallower than for honor, it will only ever be 2-8 flying cars chasing an oversized ball, but it is big enough it shares an e-sport platform with counterstrike and street fighter, I would say a good proportion of the difference is they never had the stability issues.

It doesn't mean they can afford to rest on their laurels but I think more stability for the people that do struggle currently will give them time to see what else they can do.

Illyrian_King
02-01-2018, 12:46 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see what they can do with stability and maybe more numbers but I don't think this argument holds true when you consider rocket league. If anything it is shallower than for honor, it will only ever be 2-8 flying cars chasing an oversized ball, but it is big enough it shares an e-sport platform with counterstrike and street fighter, I would say a good proportion of the difference is they never had the stability issues.

It doesn't mean they can afford to rest on their laurels but I think more stability for the people that do struggle currently will give them time to see what else they can do.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the Deds are a wasted investion, but it simply they won't have an effect of that scale like many people think.

There was simply to much negative feedback about the game content itself.
at least in the same amount like with the connectivity issues.

Also don't forget that Psyonix is by far not a publisher like AAA-Publisher Ubisoft. When people play Rocket League (they know that it's basically just car football with a strange gravity) they don't expect the same like when they play For Honor after all these trailers and expansive advertisement and the Faction War, etc.
People are more or less disappointed.

Also FH doesn't have a quiet good reputation out there, and that is hard to fix. Beside the content and connectivity there is for example the boycott, what gave media the chance to pull FH through the mud. Or the season 3 reveal event with that noob winning by abusing exploits was no great help promoting the game. Also the other participants really played in an unattractive way and it was just embarressing for everybody involved.

I am just saying that the Deds won't cause a miracle and very likely don't even crack the 10k players online border after maybe 2-3 weeks. They need to give the game's depth some love and make things much less linear.

At release For Honor was in the top charts and in some countries the most saled game. If they managed to lose that status and drop down to this ... there must be more wrong then just the servers and some matchmaking.

Also don't forget that this just my prediction. When the Deds are out, come and prove me wrong ^^

EDIT: Counter Strike is so successful, because it's the game of everybody's childhood and there is a lot of skin trade behind it. I have some friends that make a lot of money this way, and yeah of course they play the game.

PDXGorechild
02-01-2018, 01:29 PM
I am just saying that the Deds won't cause a miracle and very likely don't even crack the 10k players online border after maybe 2-3 weeks. They need to give the game's depth some love and make things much less linear..

I don't think anyone is assuming that the dedicated servers will make the game hyper popular overnight. But it will help. There are bound to be plenty of players that liked the game but couldn't hack the server issues that will come back once dedicated servers are implemented. I imagine they'll do a free trial for new players to showcase the servers. This won't be millions of players and not all of them will stay, but it will be better than it was. It also keeps the hardcore fanatics happy.

Personally I feel they're heading in the right direction and doing things in the right order. I'd much rather see old classes fixed and the fight system tweaked before any other changes.

Illyrian_King
02-01-2018, 02:39 PM
I don't think anyone is assuming that the dedicated servers will make the game hyper popular overnight. But it will help. There are bound to be plenty of players that liked the game but couldn't hack the server issues that will come back once dedicated servers are implemented. I imagine they'll do a free trial for new players to showcase the servers. This won't be millions of players and not all of them will stay, but it will be better than it was. It also keeps the hardcore fanatics happy.

Personally I feel they're heading in the right direction and doing things in the right order. I'd much rather see old classes fixed and the fight system tweaked before any other changes.

This is a thing I can agree with ;)

DoctorMcBatman
02-01-2018, 06:39 PM
I agree I may have had some unrealistic expectations when I started following development early on. And video game development is a complicated process for sure. That being said, every comment on YT videos showing the early target footage say, "Wow, wish this was the game." And when I saw that footage, I thought "yes, this is the game I thought they were making... what happened?"

I adore the Art of Battle system. It needs some tweaks, but it's a blast. But especially now that we're a year out, I agree with OP that the game needs more diverse content. 8 minute 4v4s on the same small maps over and over again gets boring. I remember reading that FH was supposed to be in the style of first person shooters (despite not being first person - that would be a lot of fun to have it as an option though). And I really hoped that meant Battlefield, not Call of Duty. But FH feels a lot like the latter, and very little like the former.