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View Full Version : Yak9 tinted glass too dark ?



XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:30 AM
I would like to have some way to improve the view through the tinted glass of the Yak 9's Want to fly them alot but very difficult to see targets. I don't see any reference to this in Gordon & Khazanov's book on the Yaks...

A certain degradation of vision seems realistic but now apparently many people are not Flying the Yak 9 series because of this. I have never heard of real pilots complaining about this . (tho it's very hard to find good books on Soviet aviation in english i've discovered.)

Well, thank you, & I apologize if this has been covered too many times already. )




"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:30 AM
I would like to have some way to improve the view through the tinted glass of the Yak 9's Want to fly them alot but very difficult to see targets. I don't see any reference to this in Gordon & Khazanov's book on the Yaks...

A certain degradation of vision seems realistic but now apparently many people are not Flying the Yak 9 series because of this. I have never heard of real pilots complaining about this . (tho it's very hard to find good books on Soviet aviation in english i've discovered.)

Well, thank you, & I apologize if this has been covered too many times already. )




"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:38 AM
I guess you know how I feel on the subject since I just commented on it in the GD forum. I wish they would change it somewhat, as nobody does fly Yak-9 series. I mentioned this awhile ago but no it hasn't been discussed to death. Generally any topic that would improve Yaks in any way is unpopular/ignored. Yak-9 top speed is way goofed too, I posted this and got no response. If I posted that the FW-190 top speed was goofed the thread would probably still be going. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif This isn't a shot at anyone, people like what they like, it's just an observation.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:57 AM
Thank you - for posting this and I must say I wholeheartedly agree that it is waaaay too dark! Unless someone knows of some reason that tyhis should be that way. I find that the game is abit dark. At 12 noon at 3 km altitude I look straight up and the sky is too dark as well - weird.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 08:59 AM
Yes, thanks for posting this. P~47 very dark too. I think it comes from trying to model dark glass on computer. Monitor pixels don't have enough brightness range, or depth, to let you see clearly through rendered "glass" that is darker than surroundings, like you can in real daylight.

Is the Yak~9U and P~47 the darkest? I ask because it seems that other Yaks and La also have dark glass, but not nearly as dark. Something recently got me to thinking different boxex of FB may have different code in them. I dunno.

Please, lets keep Yak gunsight in one thread in Oleg's Recovery Room. You all feel like doing 20 pages?

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:12 AM
hey why not ? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

agree on too dark gunsights/cockpits/high alt sky !

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:17 AM
The bottom line is that I hate to see planes wasted when so much work has gone into them so I hope they will consider this if they already haven't. I appreciate what they are trying to do, it just didn't work, maybe as you said because tinted glass may be hard to simulate accurately on computers.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:25 AM
Yes, the limitation of PC screens don't do justice to the effect required.

In my opinion most sights should be made transparent like Mig-3.

One thing amazes me is why the earlier VVS planes have better gun-glass than late war, when I always thought production wuality and materials were worse at the beggining of the conflict. Maybe something we don't know...

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_falco.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 03:22 PM
Yep, and many cockpits are too dark anyways.. I hate to set brightness high just to see well in em..

ZG77_Nagual
06-27-2003, 03:54 PM
I've thought this too, but the yaks are such uber planes I don't fly them - for that reason - not the tinted reticle.
At the same time - vvs aircraft were supposed to have - I think - inferior optics - and poor quality plexiglas etc. In the simm these problems are (and cannot reasonably) not modeled

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:15 PM
Thank You for your replies folks. Nice to have company. I noticed that the bullet proof glass is tinted AND the gunsight is tinted & where these two overlap the view is the worst.

So far I am trying to get below enemy a/c to have their silhouette against the lighter background of the sky.

I guess I could try to remove all but the winter skins for summer play & vice versa for summer so the aircraft are easier to spot for my off-line campaigns...?

Any other work arounds ?

thanks

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:23 PM
kyrule2

Oooh, Oooh, just realized this is my chance to fit in. Do you think we can become the first of the YAK Whiners !!??

Yakketty-yakety-yak, the Yak is bak !

What do you think? Hmmm. For off-line I think there has got be a way around this tho. Maybe someone in the teh forum can suggest how to increase contrast....


kyrule2 wrote:
- I guess you know how I feel on the subject since I
- just commented on it in the GD forum. I wish they
- would change it somewhat, as nobody does fly Yak-9
- series. I mentioned this awhile ago but no it hasn't
- been discussed to death. Generally any topic that
- would improve Yaks in any way is unpopular/ignored.
- Yak-9 top speed is way goofed too, I posted this and
- got no response. If I posted that the FW-190 top
- speed was goofed the thread would probably still be
- going. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif This isn't a shot at
- anyone, people like what they like, it's just an
- observation.
-
http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg
-



"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:42 PM
well i set my monitor to mak brightness,max contrast,user defined temp set at max.

i see quite well,but my eyes hurt...

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 08:49 PM
PB0_Roll wrote:
- well i set my monitor to mak brightness,max
- contrast,user defined temp set at max.
-
- i see quite well,but my eyes hurt...
-
-
So how do you ID a Yak9 pilot?

He's the one with the funny swuint who keeps bumping into things.

Will give it a try though.



"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:01 PM
LOL Saburo. I swear about 2 months ago when I brought this up along with Yak-9's top speed I said that I think I will be the first "Yakwhiner" on the forum. Not one response. It seems nobody (except maybe you and me) truly likes the Yak for the great plane that it was, most people fly them (along with 109) because they are just interested in gaining points. Many people will tell you that Yaks are too uber, this is BS as any body who is good and experienced knows the late 109's rule. You have to be a very good shot in Yak because ammo is low and armament is weak. No speed to escape once it is used up either. So don't listen to anybody who says Yaks are noob/uber planes. IMHO 109's are better as well as La-5/7s. After patch we will see, I hope 109's and Yaks are less effective that way less people will fly them and their will be more diversity.

And unfortunately other than playing with no-cockpit there is no workaround for the Ray Charles Yak-9 windscreen, but playing in no-cockpit view is out of the question for me.

Yakkety Yak back.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 01:06 AM
I too tried to find on internet something about Soviet gunsight glass. Nothing (yet). Any ideas?

For me, the German gunsight sunsheild does not help with targeting against sunlight. Just something to play with while you are extending away from the Yak3s, to pass the time. Granted, I am using LandScape Lighting at max to get the sparkly sun. Anybody think the dark Yak glass helps with sunlight? (if that is why they are dark)

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:20 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
-
-
- And unfortunately other than playing with no-cockpit
- there is no workaround for the Ray Charles Yak-9
- windscreen, but playing in no-cockpit view is out of
- the question for me.
-
- Yakkety Yak back.
-

yeah, gotta say i haven't even tried no cockpit, just kinda ruins the emmersion for me. And these cockpits are SO good!




"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:39 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- I too tried to find on internet something about
- Soviet gunsight glass. Nothing (yet). Any ideas?
-
-
I'm reading Yakovlev's piston-engined Fighters & have found some contradictory statements about the glass in the Yak 3, but didn''t notice anything about the 9.
"...the Yak 3's moulded cockpit visor noticeably distorted the objects observed through it, hampering the use of the gunsight."


Gasp!http://www.pcimagenetwork.com/express/p3.jpg


But in the same chapter French pilots prasie the excellant forward visibility. ????

i hope someone form 1c will respond to this thread, even if they have no intent to change this if they could share an explantion I'd be happy.
Granted, I am using
- LandScape Lighting at max to get the sparkly sun.
- Anybody think the dark Yak glass helps with
- sunlight? (if that is why they are dark)
-
I guess I should try playing with some of those settings to see if a certain combo works best.

For now I've increaded the brightness & contrast on my monitor & that helps a little but gives evrything a kinda washed out look.

My monitor is pretty old so I imagine the game looks better on the screens the guys in Oleg's group are using...

Yakety-Yak Yak!!
http://www.hi-ho.ne.jp/a1takeda/Yak9-2.jpg





"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:10 AM
I don't know if the original glass was dark, and today's restored or new Yaks have clear glass.

Now, the FB Yak~9U (and P~47 + BI~1) has much darker glass than Yak~3. But I found this Yak3 sight ---> http://www.pbase.com/image/101773

(correct or not I don't know) is not much darker than canopy. Note the distortion from canopy.



Message Edited on 06/29/0305:35AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 04:20 AM
well, I was out walking today in the forest preserve with my sunglases on. I did notice that it was much harder to make out details with the glases than without. ;(

Maybe the Yak9's should be this hard to see out of. Still tend to think it's more of a display issue.....?

Lexx, cool pics thanks for the links. Oh I think for the most part the Yak 3 's had the clear canopy. Just not sure if it's bullet proof or not!?


http://www.ecodragon.com/ecoart/yak.jpg



"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 11:58 PM
*slap*

I doubt its bullet proof as the front is so large, one piece, and curved.

fb109 and fw190, even though they have sun shield available, also have dark gunsight glass. Maybe they are tinted dark so we notice there is a gunsight in front of us. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif



Message Edited on 07/03/0310:59PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:23 AM
o comon! The glass is too dark. Thats alittle to picky...

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:27 AM
KSS, pointing out something that makes a plane almost unflyable is not being too picky. Alot of people feel the same way, and you hardly ever see anybody fly the Yak-9 because of the tinted glass. IMHO it makes the plane somewhat of a waste as it is not enjoyable to fly. To each his own.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:28 AM
I knew if I mentioned Fw gunsight glass, I'd catch a Troll.http://www.boardy.de/images/smilies/kopfpatsch.gif




Message Edited on 07/04/0312:29AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:58 AM
t

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://toys-usa.com/images/ha00273.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 03:09 AM
Bump

WAY too dark IMHO

S!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 03:17 AM
Just noticed the excellent pics from Lexx...

I'm sure you fellas know in some of the later Spits the reflector glass was omitted so the sight picture was projected directly onto the canopy. This was an attempt to get round some vision artifacts caused by the interaction of the armoured windscreen and sight glass.

Could this be FB version of the same thing?

Well anyway, those sights are still too dark

S!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:02 PM
I haven't any problem seeing out of the Yak-9, except possibly through the props, where it's a bit darker. One note, tho, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but does that Yak not have any type of directional indicator at all? I see it has the weird soviet waypoint indicator (at least I think that's what it is... goes from 45 left to 45 right, analog (digital, HAH) guage) but nothing that I could find to tell me which way I was pointed. Did Yak pilots dead reckon, or fly by the sun?


Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Dock!
-Accept Follow-on Shifts!
-Take the Fight Upstairs!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 04:08 PM
It's there, but unfortunately we can't see it in the game because the gun sight is blocking it. In real life pilots could just move their head to look at it. I hope it's adressed somehow, since i enjoy flying by instruments and this is the only thing that keeps me from disabling the speedbar.


As far as the glass goes, I'm ok with the way it is. I've just begun flying the Yak-9U as opposed to the Yak-3 (trading a bit of maneuverability for speed, the 9U is very versatile in that it can also BnZ pretty well, and though the tinted gunsight presents a challenge, it is one that I enjoy. IMHO it's the least that can be done to model the historical problems Soviet optics and canopy glass had in WW2. I just hope this dosen't turn into an epic like the Fw-190 forward visibility /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

One note, tho, and please correct me if I'm
- wrong, but does that Yak not have any type of
- directional indicator at all? I see it has the
- weird soviet waypoint indicator (at least I think
- that's what it is... goes from 45 left to 45 right,
- analog (digital, HAH) guage) but nothing that I
- could find to tell me which way I was pointed. Did
- Yak pilots dead reckon, or fly by the sun?

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 04:09 PM
Double post

Message Edited on 07/04/0303:10PM by Tovarish_06

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 09:19 PM
Tovarish_06 wrote:

As far as the glass goes, I'm ok with the way it is.
and though the tinted gunsight presents
- a challenge, it is one that I enjoy. IMHO it's the
- least that can be done to model the historical
- problems Soviet optics and canopy glass had in WW2.

Actually I've come to look at in a similar light. I make a point of trying to get under my targets etc. But i have been flying with icons, & by increasing my lighting effects & other settings I've seen an improvement.

I just hope that this isn't too much of aproblem on machines which need lower settings,


because I've really grown quite fond of the YAK9T in particular.

Perhaps someone could suggest display settings that work best?

The compass I would also like to see worked around somehow.

http://www.ecodragon.com/ecoart/yak.jpg


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente