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Plutonium Bug
01-30-2018, 12:08 PM
I absolutely hate this map in dominion.
The fact that C only has a small space to fight and ledges everywhere really pisses me off.
If the two ledges that are closed in the start stay closed I would be fine with it but it is just to much.
Every game there is a Warlord Shugoki or a raider camping and 100% of the time trying to ledge people. Not even fighting anymore.
It is too easy to throw people off.
The two stairs are just to small to have s proper fight and you will get wall stunned at some point as there is no where to go.
Please just get rid of this map in Dominion or stop the ledges to open.

Xil_h
01-30-2018, 12:17 PM
You forgot Lawbr(akers)inger.

King_of_games-SP
01-30-2018, 05:50 PM
Ive always hated zone C on that map. But worst part isnt the amount of ledges in the zone. The worst thing about over watch is how much importance is placed on zone C. The team that maintains control of zone C have strong positions to help at zone B, they have a position that allows spawn trapping, it allows them to control the flow of traffic to zone A. Controlling zone C basically lets you control the whole map which is why at least 80% of all fights i see, happen somewhere close to zone C. The map needs a strong redesign to allow another path to get from the spawn to zone A since right now you have to go by zone C to even start going to zone A

Tundra 793
01-30-2018, 06:25 PM
The worst thing about over watch is how much importance is placed on zone C. The team that maintains control of zone C have strong positions to help at zone B, they have a position that allows spawn trapping, it allows them to control the flow of traffic to zone A.

You're absolutely right. Overwatch has been in the game so long, I barely even give it a second though, but all it takes is one glance it's clearly pretty unbalanced.

I think the developers need to adopt new rules for designing maps. Basically, if any hero with a long *** throw can use it to ledge other players, it's unbalanced. Temple Garden on Duel is a great example of this. I played Raider in an AI duel last week, we spawn on the island with the tree, and from the spawn alone I could grab and toss the AI into the lake. Game over within 10 seconds.
And several maps are exactly like this, clearly favoring heroes with ledge abilities. Zone C on High Fort is another prominent example.


or stop the ledges to open.

This right here. Easiest solution ever to a problem that should never have existed in the first place.

UbiInsulin
01-30-2018, 08:47 PM
I absolutely hate this map in dominion.
The fact that C only has a small space to fight and ledges everywhere really pisses me off.
If the two ledges that are closed in the start stay closed I would be fine with it but it is just to much.
Every game there is a Warlord Shugoki or a raider camping and 100% of the time trying to ledge people. Not even fighting anymore.
It is too easy to throw people off.
The two stairs are just to small to have s proper fight and you will get wall stunned at some point as there is no where to go.
Please just get rid of this map in Dominion or stop the ledges to open.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Plutonium. Will be passing this thread to the team.

DoctorMcBatman
01-30-2018, 10:51 PM
This would be a great fighting game if ledging and cheese weren't responsible for 50% of kills on several maps.

(Disclaimer: I still like this game).

King_of_games-SP
02-01-2018, 12:27 AM
Id like to continue this discussion a bit more so *bump*

Overwatch needs an adjustment, this has been clear to me ever since the beta. The flow of the map almost forces encounters closer to zone c.

The fix i would suggest is simply putting ladders outside of zone a, on the outside edge of the bridges justoutside of zone b ,and honestly this is something ive always thought was strange wasnt already there. It wouldnt force everybody towards zone c and would give the players the option to approach zone a less obviously.

Anybody else have ideas for making the map flow better

Plutonium Bug
02-01-2018, 10:12 AM
I wouldn't mind C as much if the ledges stay closed so you can have a proper fight for C.
It is a beautiful map a lot of things are going on in the map but zone C is just awful.

Like King said zone C is to important in this map and spawns almost force you to go there.

PDXGorechild
02-01-2018, 02:42 PM
Lawbrakers lol.

I also agree wholeheartedly. Everybody knows you run to C on Overwatch, and despite the fact I hate fighting there I often find myself following suit. I've tried to counter teams who have controlled it by taking A and harassing B but it just doesn't work. It's very hard to take C back when a group of ledge happy classes camp there, and it allows them to keep B much more easily. I'd like to see the percentage of kills made on this map that are due to ledging...

Personally I think that there is still too much focus on ledging. We complained about it last year and managed to get some of the ledges taken away from duel and brawl maps, which helped, but ledging is still prolific in other game modes. Some maps have 10 or more places you can ledge someone, which I think is crazy. Ledging someone should be a pretty rare opportunity IMO, seeing as it's so easy ends in instant death, similar to dropping the cage down on sanctuary bridge. It should be an opportunistic thing that you get the odd kill with, that provides some lol's. Not the bread and butter of some maps. If there's only one ledge on a map and somebody gets me off it, i'd be more likely to stay calm and blame myself, rather than rage at Ubisoft and throw my controller when I get ledged for the third time in a row into one of the FOUR pits at C on Overwatch.

Alternatively I'd like to see more non-lethal ledges replace the old ones. Knocking somebody off a ledge for 25 damage and having a chance to jump attack them seems much more interesting than instant death to me.

Other maps that suck due to ledges:

River fort - C Sucks. B is also pretty horrible.

Shipyard - The end with the wrecked ship is a horrible place to fight. Nobody enjoys attack or defending this in tribute.

Temple garden - Love this map, except for zone C. Inside the tree is cramped and there's about 4 edges you can throw people off.

Forge - Inside the forge, zone A I think. Overall an OK map but I had to put this in there cause I hate A so much. Horrible cramped area to fight in, it's a weird shape, and there's molten metal flowing through one side of it. I avoid going in there like the plague.

Also on tower ruin and temple garden you can die by being thrown into what is, essentially, a pond. So my character can take numerous blows to the head with heavy, sharp weapons, but can't survive being pushed into a puddle? Go figure.

Arekonator
02-01-2018, 03:25 PM
I woudnt mind that one point is very ledge-heavy, if it wasnt the most important place on map. The fact that B is so easily acessible while when going to A or from A to B you also have to go through/near C is what makes it problematic. Because of how the map is setuo, you simply cant avoid fighting there if you want to have any degree of map control.

KeyserSoze0007
02-01-2018, 05:32 PM
I love overwatch and donít play with Warlord, Raider, Lawbringer or Shug.

I understand peoples frustration but the environment for me keeps it interesting. No doubt Holding C will play a major role in winning this map but I have played many matches here were the pendulum has swung majorly to the loosing team as they have played it quite tactically.

You can get to A without going to C by using the ladders and although that doesnt go unnoticed by the team occupying C you can end up drawing 1 or two of them out leaving 2 or 3 of your team to try recapture C.

I guess Iím probably one of the few who like the challenge of having to concentrate not only on who your fighting but were your fighting. This element keeps me coming back to dominions. I absolutely donít sit here saying I donít shout out at the tv when I have been ganked by 3 players only to be picked up and thrown down the pit but itís more frustration at dying than the maps. Going into any zone occupied by three of those characters on your own is pretty brave, most of the time you will probably be killed only difference with Overwatch Zone C is itís probably going to happen quicker.