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View Full Version : Why do rubbish people moan about shaman so much



dirtydannx
01-23-2018, 08:00 AM
So many people complain about shaman and she isnít even over powered.. look at orochi no one cares about him now but people used to cry themselves to sleep at night at the start. He doesnít have much to brag about.

Every player is over powered in there own way. Look at the centurion has so many stun moves and knock backs ow and a stab once your down once your pinned itís game over due to stun stamina reductions. Look at the Berserker can hit a 55 with a heavy no complaints? Or a highlander in the wrong hands gives me nightmares! Or even a parry happy warden. Or even a raider cheesing you grab run knee stun hit and repeat. Revenge in brawls? or revenge in general thatís even more op than any play will ever be.

People need to stop crying about stuff and just have fun itís a game after all! If you think shaman is op use them and Ull soon go back to a different character once you get dodged and parried.

Ow and if you are wondering how to block or parry Iím sure YouTube can help you!

IAmOddGirl
01-23-2018, 11:51 AM
I get salt for Aramusha too. Just take it with stride. It's saltmining LOL. If you like the character and you are having fun using her then to hell with people and their salty BS.

bob333e
01-23-2018, 12:24 PM
Introduce a new hero, many who dislike losing and aren't comfy with adapting to new heroes will complain and crynerf. It has happened every season.

In the particular case of Shaman, she alone has a much more fluid kit flow than the rest of the cast. Meaning, she's more noob-friendly, and a relatively inexperienced low-rep player using Shaman can wipe the floor with a veteran high-rep player if the veteran isn't too careful.

The major issue here is people wanting easy wins and then finding out that a lot of their maneuvers (and cheese tactics) don't work on Shaman. Then they snap how she's OP and needs nerfs.

In reality she isn't OP, she's finely tuned with wrong numbers and values here and there that have mostly gotten fixed by now (still some things remain). However she was introduced into the game far before the other heroes would catch up to her level, so she'll reign as the supreme S-Tier hero for quite some time.

What's really OP in For Honor is skill. It's a trait that many lack, few are satisfied with at a plateau, and the minority keep improving it and are never satisfied with themselves. Other things that are OP: self-recollection, self-judgment, patience, perseverance, adaptation... so many just don't have those.

dirtydannx
01-23-2018, 12:31 PM
Finally people on forums with brains! Guess we will just wait for the new characters to come out and more people just cry about them too lol.. no one must go to Valhalla since they cry on death! If people are wondering Iím an orochi main lol

Xaviloga
01-23-2018, 01:44 PM
Nah, its at high lvl when hero unbalance matter. At low lvl is when its not a problem at all. Like at F1, there are cars better than others, when pilots push the cars to their top is when differences become truly visible. If an unprofessional group of friends organize a race a sunday morning they will not even feel differences. Skill at this low level makes the difference. At pro level the lose of a second a lap is huge, and skill dont overcome this fact.

dirtydannx
01-23-2018, 02:10 PM
Nah, its at high lvl when hero unbalance matter. At low lvl is when its not a problem at all. Like at F1, there are cars better than others, when pilots push the cars to their top is when differences become truly visible. If an unprofessional group of friends organize a race a sunday morning they will not even feel differences. Skill at this low level makes the difference. At pro level the lose of a second a lap is huge, and skill dont overcome this fact.

That is 33% true but your not taking into consideration. Mistakes / wrong discusion at that moment, lucky, environment.. and even if the ďF1 carĒ is better they can still be out played by a better driver with a worse car. You will never be able to prove anything unless it was done by 2 bots with the same coding.. so therefore your argument is invalid. Low level and high level the skill level will still have the same scale because Iíll get bad drivers and good drivers in boths.

SenBotsu893
01-23-2018, 02:23 PM
wow this dude actually singed in to the forums to defend his new cheese character.

let me copy and paste whats fundamentally wrong with her:

her throwdistance is abnormal far for an assasin. even more so since a mercy/hunger is guaranteed from a throw. this needs to be adressed.
cut her throwdistance short and remove the guaranteed mercy/hunger from throw.


mercy/hunger is still an easy 400 ms free damage/wallsplat/ledgethrow. even more so since it can be hold to bait out an reaction and get the hit then.
hunger needs a much bigger wind up for the amount of reward you get from it.
Mercy needs an even bigger wind up animation or even a selfdamage penalty. as of now mercy is basically a demons embrace with NO negative side effects.


for a character with auto-healing she does not deserve the maximum assasin hp. she is faster, has saver attacks, and with her wildcats attacks even the same attack range as shinobi and yet she has more hp than him? cut her hp down to 100.


she is an assasin with auto-heal build in but yet she gets access to the Second Wind and Flesh Wound feats. this is just wrong. 25% damage resistance and additional healing is not something for such an fast assasin. this turns her more into a tank than most other characters that are supposed to be a tank.
replace Flesh Wound with Doom Banner and replace Second Wind with Throwing Axe.

BTTrinity
01-23-2018, 02:44 PM
I hate her because even with all of her recent nerfs... Whatever another hero does, she does better. shes jack of all trades master of all trades and it makes no sense. Best bash, best assassin lunge, best softfeints, best run speed, best survivability, like jesus... if that was their goal to make her the best at everything, you would expect there to be some sort of drawback for a character like this... like maybe lower HP? Nope, they gave her the highest amount of HP out of the assassins as well as her being the best at everything else in the game that isnt zoning. (Even then, her range is not much of a drawback cuz her mobility is thru the roof)

TLDR: whatever another hero does, she does better.

The_B0G_
01-23-2018, 02:51 PM
I do think she is in a pretty good place now, shes needs a few more minor tweaks, mainly I think her throw distance is a bit much for an assassin and her pounce after a throw should be dodgeable. Besides that shes not bad any more.

There is no comparison between her and Orochi though, he was only thought OP because no one knew how to play the game yet. Shaman was supposed to be jack of all trades, but at release she was master of all those as well lol the devs admitted this themselves.

I think she is pretty much where she needs to be right now though, once the first round of reworks and defence meta changes come hopefully others will be brought up to her level.

Ulrichvonbek111
01-23-2018, 03:01 PM
wow this dude actually singed in to the forums to defend his new cheese character.

let me copy and paste whats fundamentally wrong with her:

her throwdistance is abnormal far for an assasin. even more so since a mercy/hunger is guaranteed from a throw. this needs to be adressed.
cut her throwdistance short and remove the guaranteed mercy/hunger from throw.


mercy/hunger is still an easy 400 ms free damage/wallsplat/ledgethrow. even more so since it can be hold to bait out an reaction and get the hit then.
hunger needs a much bigger wind up for the amount of reward you get from it.
Mercy needs an even bigger wind up animation or even a selfdamage penalty. as of now mercy is basically a demons embrace with NO negative side effects.


for a character with auto-healing she does not deserve the maximum assasin hp. she is faster, has saver attacks, and with her wildcats attacks even the same attack range as shinobi and yet she has more hp than him? cut her hp down to 100.


she is an assasin with auto-heal build in but yet she gets access to the Second Wind and Flesh Wound feats. this is just wrong. 25% damage resistance and additional healing is not something for such an fast assasin. this turns her more into a tank than most other characters that are supposed to be a tank.
replace Flesh Wound with Doom Banner and replace Second Wind with Throwing Axe.

Indeed started a thread in defence of a broken character that the Dev's themselves have stated she's beyond ridiculous.
Yet we have one from the you know who gang partially defending her to the hilt,,always moving in their kleekish herd.
This kleek has now been sanctioned and protected by the Guardians of this forum.
They gang up to dissect many others posts,the call goes out and before you know it they arrive team handed backing up each other. If you dare to oppose this body then off they go to the Guardians and cry for retribution which materialises in the shape of a ban....Boo hoo.
Yes sometimes there are up to 5 of them in the one post even passing comments up to 2 times each which in max terms equals 10 posts or often more on the 1 topic.
They roam this forum in their Kleek under the protective wings of a Guardian...
No doubt the noose is already tightening round my neck..
Boo hoo.

The_B0G_
01-23-2018, 03:16 PM
Who out of all these people are in this "kleek"? Me? Because I don't even have Shaman unlocked.

Ulrichvonbek111
01-23-2018, 06:51 PM
Who out of all these people are in this "kleek"? Me? Because I don't even have Shaman unlocked.

Not you.... :))

Tundra 793
01-23-2018, 06:55 PM
This kleek has now been sanctioned and protected by the Guardians of this forum.


Aight you've made too many references to these vague and mysterious "kleeks", "gangs" and now "Guardians". Who are these people? Is anyone you don't agree with just lopped into one of these obscure cults, seemingly devoted to disagreeing with you?

Am I in one? Do we get member cards and a cool secret handshake?

CandleInTheDark
01-23-2018, 07:14 PM
Am I in one? Do we get member cards and a cool secret handshake?

Not if you talk about it so openly, we have to change it now.

Vrbas1
01-23-2018, 07:15 PM
People moan because her kit is all inclusive. There's literally nothing she can't do. Practically every mechanic in the game has been awarded to her. That on top of her speed is especially tiresome for console players.

bob333e
01-23-2018, 07:35 PM
Indeed started a thread in defence of a broken character that the Dev's themselves have stated she's beyond ridiculous.
Yet we have one from the you know who gang partially defending her to the hilt,,always moving in their kleekish herd.
This kleek has now been sanctioned and protected by the Guardians of this forum.
They gang up to dissect many others posts,the call goes out and before you know it they arrive team handed backing up each other. If you dare to oppose this body then off they go to the Guardians and cry for retribution which materialises in the shape of a ban....Boo hoo.
Yes sometimes there are up to 5 of them in the one post even passing comments up to 2 times each which in max terms equals 10 posts or often more on the 1 topic.
They roam this forum in their Kleek under the protective wings of a Guardian...
No doubt the noose is already tightening round my neck..
Boo hoo.

Sigh

bob333e
01-23-2018, 07:42 PM
Not if you talk about it so openly, we have to change it now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC1yHLp9bWA

UbiInsulin
01-23-2018, 07:50 PM
Just want to pop in to say thank you for largely staying on-topic. I'm not a huge fan of the thread title calling people "rubbish" for saying a hero has issues. I don't think the actual content of the post was over-the-top (just the title), but I still want to make it clear that we welcome all balance discussion.

Alustar.
01-23-2018, 07:55 PM
Not if you talk about it so openly, we have to change it now.

Dammit, and I just got set up with the nee card and secret handshake!

Tyrjo
01-23-2018, 08:25 PM
I feel ashamed every time I play my Shaman. She's rep 10 now and that's a lot of time feeling ashamed. She just has everything in her kit and she needs to be balanced.

Dasteel1974
01-24-2018, 03:08 AM
So many people complain about shaman and she isnít even over powered.. look at orochi no one cares about him now but people used to cry themselves to sleep at night at the start. He doesnít have much to brag about.

Every player is over powered in there own way. Look at the centurion has so many stun moves and knock backs ow and a stab once your down once your pinned itís game over due to stun stamina reductions. Look at the Berserker can hit a 55 with a heavy no complaints? Or a highlander in the wrong hands gives me nightmares! Or even a parry happy warden. Or even a raider cheesing you grab run knee stun hit and repeat. Revenge in brawls? or revenge in general thatís even more op than any play will ever be.

People need to stop crying about stuff and just have fun itís a game after all! If you think shaman is op use them and Ull soon go back to a different character once you get dodged and parried.

Ow and if you are wondering how to block or parry Iím sure YouTube can help you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Warp_11
01-24-2018, 06:29 AM
I hate shaman because she looks horrible, unrealistic, cheesy, etc. Her animations are even worse.
Mix that with her jump speed of a jaguar on speed and dmg of berserk. I hate her more than I hated peacekeeper before I dropped the game 9 months ago.
I dislike every step away from realism tbh. It's not like I want the game to be like real life but when that pretty small woman knocks down an armored brute and bites of a piece of steel from their neck; it just hurts.
P.S. even if she is a noob stomper, it's still bad because then the game won't get new or returning players

kbvlcvfkhgc
01-24-2018, 06:49 AM
Why are there people by the Legion who come on these forums and think if they say stupid things enough it will somehow become the truth?

the Shaman is pure Fu$%ing Toxic Cancer, WTF is this R-Tard talking about? not OP? im not sure by what Yardstick his definition of OP is measured but i think anyone with even the slightes bit of Intelectual honesty will acknowledge that compared to S1 characters these S4 charatcers are on a different level, the Shaman is like Frankensteins monster of all the best bits of S1 characters rolled into on deadly little package called the Shaman, The Aramusha? the king of stuin lock fast light spam death,

they say their reworking S1 characters? well good for them but i wont be around for it, im sick and tired of this ****ing cheesfest light spam stun lock trainwreck of a game and this Toxioc community with all these idiots like this yahoo so i bid you all a fond farewell and a hearty go Fu$k yourselves!!!!!!!

Tundra 793
01-24-2018, 06:51 AM
they say their reworking S1 characters? well good for them but i wont be around for it, im sick and tired of this ****ing cheesfest and this Toxioc community with idiots like this so i bid you all a fond farewell and a hearty go Fu$k yourselves!!!!!!!

Before you go, how is one supposed to pronounce your username?

kbvlcvfkhgc
01-24-2018, 06:57 AM
Its Russian for Sebastian,

au revior Muchachos!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Warp_11
01-24-2018, 06:58 AM
no it's not, russian is my 1st language

ChampionRuby50g
01-24-2018, 07:03 AM
Hahahah, these two comments above mine are gold.

brashtralas
01-24-2018, 07:24 AM
Is this thread for real? Hahaha

Klingentaenz3r
01-24-2018, 01:53 PM
Introduce a new hero, many who dislike losing and aren't comfy with adapting to new heroes will complain and crynerf. It has happened every season.
In the particular case of Shaman, she alone has a much more fluid kit flow than the rest of the cast. Meaning, she's more noob-friendly, and a relatively inexperienced low-rep player using Shaman can wipe the floor with a veteran high-rep player if the veteran isn't too careful.

The major issue here is people wanting easy wins and then finding out that a lot of their maneuvers (and cheese tactics) don't work on Shaman. Then they snap how she's OP and needs nerfs.

In reality she isn't OP, she's finely tuned with wrong numbers and values here and there that have mostly gotten fixed by now (still some things remain). However she was introduced into the game far before the other heroes would catch up to her level, so she'll reign as the supreme S-Tier hero for quite some time.


That is a little overly simplified. Sure there are lots of haters that fit your description of disliking losing and failing to adapt. But this is not the core issue. The core issue with Shaman is that she is indeed fundamentally overpowered. She has speed, power, an extreme very variable and viable kit, huge distance that she can cover with one leap, running speed, throw distance, excellent recovery times and last but not least move cancel options like no other.

She can soley abuse how inferior other characters are just by feinting wild cat's rage, predator's hunger/mercy over and over again and wait until a dodge happens. Since her pounce or neckbite comes out so fast, you don't have any possibiltiy to get out of recovery to attack her out of it or dodge again. While she can double dodge for instance a highlanders fumorion kick cancel to caber toss. This all is just an unfair advantage which gives the shaman complete control over the fight. For other classes this is always an uphill battle. Possible but as you said you need to be careful and the shaman player to fall for it.

Thx to her as you say fluit kit and her great recovery times she can easily outmanouver other casts members that feel much more clumpsy and less reactable. It makes her easy to use yes, but I would say none the less that Shaman requires some knowlegde over her kit and how it works together. But once that is figured out then you are in trouble.

But I would still say that In the hands of a novice who just started the character and just tries to get a hang how things work shaman can be dealt with quite easily. Which was also the case for many players on the opposite side as she was released. Unlike Centurion on release who brought an entirely new fighting challenge to the game and promoted to react at different and seemingly everchanging timings combined with unusal tracking + stamina draining options than ever before + getting severely punished with a cutscene when they screwed up. Shaman's only cutscene is her bite she promotes actual fighting and a dynamic fight - but she is just far superior to the other characters in mechanical terms while having advanced versions of some of the best/unique moves in the game.

Some examples:

Wild Cat's Rage (Jump attack) aka Orochi's Storm rush advanced

Way too fast. This single move ensures that the Shaman always gets a punishment. If there is any kind of opening she can easily benifit on it with this attack. Often it was stated on reddit that the indicator is bugged and hence you have an even shorter reaction window to actually react to. I am not sure if this is fixed already but I usually try to predict where my opponent's gonna hit and concentrate on blocking to maybe be able to swap directions at the last moment if I have to.
Covers way too much distance. This soley guarantees that Shaman is superior in every 4v4 game mode (especially in tribute) She can be everywhere on the map and engage opponents. If she is right on the edge of your screen not 1 second later she is in your face probably dealt some damage already and go into her unblockable mixup. Furthermore I cannot stress enough how insanely powerful this is when it comes to team fights. She can just instantaniously disengage an opponent and jump upon another maybe to interrupt a lethal attack on a team mate without actually having to mind much about her own opponent and punishment possibilities.
Can change directions very shortly before the actual attack

Her throwing distance is also as mentioned before unnecessarily high. That only gives a huge advantage in 4v4s but also in duel situations as you easily wallsplat.

Her side dodge attack Wild Cat's Swiftness is safe on block and is a heavy. Meaning good damage while having no threat of getting punished as severe as a light parry punish. Furthermore it is short ranged/quick. Meaning opponents don't have much time to prepare to punish her with a parry nor to readjust if they feinted.

I don't know how the reworks turn out to be, but surely there still have to be some readjustments to be done to the shaman to get her to a reasonable spot. The changes so far are going in the right direction (for instance the increased recovery time after a missed predator's mercy) but it definitely should not stop there.

BTTrinity
01-24-2018, 03:37 PM
That is a little overly simplified. Sure there are lots of haters that fit your description of disliking losing and failing to adapt. But this is not the core issue. The core issue with Shaman is that she is indeed fundamentally overpowered. She has speed, power, an extreme very variable and viable kit, huge distance that she can cover with one leap, running speed, throw distance, excellent recovery times and last but not least move cancel options like no other.

She can soley abuse how inferior other characters are just by feinting wild cat's rage, predator's hunger/mercy over and over again and wait until a dodge happens. Since her pounce or neckbite comes out so fast, you don't have any possibiltiy to get out of recovery to attack her out of it or dodge again. While she can double dodge for instance a highlanders fumorion kick cancel to caber toss. This all is just an unfair advantage which gives the shaman complete control over the fight. For other classes this is always an uphill battle. Possible but as you said you need to be careful and the shaman player to fall for it.

Thx to her as you say fluit kit and her great recovery times she can easily outmanouver other casts members that feel much more clumpsy and less reactable. It makes her easy to use yes, but I would say none the less that Shaman requires some knowlegde over her kit and how it works together. But once that is figured out then you are in trouble.

But I would still say that In the hands of a novice who just started the character and just tries to get a hang how things work shaman can be dealt with quite easily. Which was also the case for many players on the opposite side as she was released. Unlike Centurion on release who brought an entirely new fighting challenge to the game and promoted to react at different and seemingly everchanging timings combined with unusal tracking + stamina draining options than ever before + getting severely punished with a cutscene when they screwed up. Shaman's only cutscene is her bite she promotes actual fighting and a dynamic fight - but she is just far superior to the other characters in mechanical terms while having advanced versions of some of the best/unique moves in the game.

Some examples:

Wild Cat's Rage (Jump attack) aka Orochi's Storm rush advanced

Way too fast. This single move ensures that the Shaman always gets a punishment. If there is any kind of opening she can easily benifit on it with this attack. Often it was stated on reddit that the indicator is bugged and hence you have an even shorter reaction window to actually react to. I am not sure if this is fixed already but I usually try to predict where my opponent's gonna hit and concentrate on blocking to maybe be able to swap directions at the last moment if I have to.
Covers way too much distance. This soley guarantees that Shaman is superior in every 4v4 game mode (especially in tribute) She can be everywhere on the map and engage opponents. If she is right on the edge of your screen not 1 second later she is in your face probably dealt some damage already and go into her unblockable mixup. Furthermore I cannot stress enough how insanely powerful this is when it comes to team fights. She can just instantaniously disengage an opponent and jump upon another maybe to interrupt a lethal attack on a team mate without actually having to mind much about her own opponent and punishment possibilities.
Can change directions very shortly before the actual attack

Her throwing distance is also as mentioned before unnecessarily high. That only gives a huge advantage in 4v4s but also in duel situations as you easily wallsplat.

Her side dodge attack Wild Cat's Swiftness is safe on block and is a heavy. Meaning good damage while having no thread of getting punish as severe as a light parry punish. Furthermore it is short ranged/quick. Meaning opponents don't have much time to prepare her to punish with a parry nor to readjust if they feinted.

I don't know how the reworks turn out to be, but surely there still have to be some readjustments to be done to the shaman to get her to a reasonable spot. The changes so far are going in the right direction (for instance the increased recovery time after a missed predator's mercy) but it definitely should not stop there.

I think her headbutt shouldnt be guaranteed after a throw, throw distance should be nerfed, nerf running speed (The only time she should be faster than Shinobi, is when using the feat) and her HP should be 100, along with Shinobi (hell, Shinobi deserves that health pool far more than she does...) then shed probably be fine.

The fact that she has the best health sustain, hardest attacks to read, and the best CC move(s) in the game definitely calls for her being a glass cannon (cuz that bleed passive, shes hardly a glass cannon even at that point.)

Tyrjo
01-24-2018, 06:41 PM
Both Wild Cat's Swiftness and Wild Cat's Rage should be punishable with a GB if blocked. They are way to safe to do.

Devils-_-legacy
01-24-2018, 08:28 PM
No that would give way to much of a reward basically a parry from blocking

Foosch
01-24-2018, 09:35 PM
Ummm...you contradicted yourself. Funny, If there aren't op hero's then why are the same one's being spammed over and over in game?

JadeBosson.
01-25-2018, 04:14 AM
I remember a highlander (yeah a highlander) absolutely destroyed me any time i'd 1v1 him in tribute (public game) and my team barely won - after the match I get a msg saying your team only won cause shaman is OP it was good stuff tho lol

Ulrichvonbek111
01-25-2018, 04:28 AM
Aight you've made too many references to these vague and mysterious "kleeks", "gangs" and now "Guardians". Who are these people? Is anyone you don't agree with just lopped into one of these obscure cults, seemingly devoted to disagreeing with you?

Am I in one? Do we get member cards and a cool secret handshake?

1

Ulrichvonbek111
01-25-2018, 04:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC1yHLp9bWA

2

Ulrichvonbek111
01-25-2018, 04:30 AM
Dammit, and I just got set up with the nee card and secret handshake!

3

Ulrichvonbek111
01-25-2018, 04:35 AM
Not if you talk about it so openly, we have to change it now.

4.Guardian .....1.2.3. Actually showed themselves up for what they are,,they all outed themselves within 2 or 3 posts of each other..Kleekish cowards looking for lil brownie points.
Laugh I nearly s.h.a.t.

ChampionRuby50g
01-25-2018, 05:05 AM
4.Guardian .....1.2.3. Actually showed themselves up for what they are,,they all outed themselves within 2 or 3 posts of each other..Kleekish cowards looking for lil brownie points.
Laugh I nearly s.h.a.t.

You are perhaps the biggest hypocrite on these forums. You call these members cowards but donít even respond to me when I ask how Archo was been arrogant on his lore thread? Did you not say a while ago that you got banned and had done your time and learnt from it, yet here you are still been provocative. You never have anything constructive to add to threads and only attack people for their opinions. Talking about showing themselves for what they are, well what about you? Youíre showing yourself to be nothing more than a nasty, weirdly obsessive person who just attacks people. Why are you even on these forums if you donít do anything positive and only spread negativity on every thread you enter?

Tundra 793
01-25-2018, 09:20 AM
4.Guardian .....1.2.3. Actually showed themselves up for what they are,,they all outed themselves within 2 or 3 posts of each other..Kleekish cowards looking for lil brownie points.
Laugh I nearly s.h.a.t.

It's a lot easier to get into a kleek than I thought it would be...

I suppose we ought to take advantage of this then lads. Please, do go out of your way to report Ulrich's posts when he breaks forum rules, which he does strangely often. This post above alone breaks 2 rules.

Also, does our kleek have a name yet?

bob333e
01-25-2018, 12:56 PM
That is a little overly simplified. Sure there are lots of haters that fit your description of disliking losing and failing to adapt. But this is not the core issue. The core issue with Shaman is that she is indeed fundamentally overpowered. She has speed, power, an extreme very variable and viable kit, huge distance that she can cover with one leap, running speed, throw distance, excellent recovery times and last but not least move cancel options like no other.

She can soley abuse how inferior other characters are just by feinting wild cat's rage, predator's hunger/mercy over and over again and wait until a dodge happens. Since her pounce or neckbite comes out so fast, you don't have any possibiltiy to get out of recovery to attack her out of it or dodge again. While she can double dodge for instance a highlanders fumorion kick cancel to caber toss. This all is just an unfair advantage which gives the shaman complete control over the fight. For other classes this is always an uphill battle. Possible but as you said you need to be careful and the shaman player to fall for it.

Thx to her as you say fluit kit and her great recovery times she can easily outmanouver other casts members that feel much more clumpsy and less reactable. It makes her easy to use yes, but I would say none the less that Shaman requires some knowlegde over her kit and how it works together. But once that is figured out then you are in trouble.

But I would still say that In the hands of a novice who just started the character and just tries to get a hang how things work shaman can be dealt with quite easily. Which was also the case for many players on the opposite side as she was released. Unlike Centurion on release who brought an entirely new fighting challenge to the game and promoted to react at different and seemingly everchanging timings combined with unusal tracking + stamina draining options than ever before + getting severely punished with a cutscene when they screwed up. Shaman's only cutscene is her bite she promotes actual fighting and a dynamic fight - but she is just far superior to the other characters in mechanical terms while having advanced versions of some of the best/unique moves in the game.

Some examples:

Wild Cat's Rage (Jump attack) aka Orochi's Storm rush advanced

Way too fast. This single move ensures that the Shaman always gets a punishment. If there is any kind of opening she can easily benifit on it with this attack. Often it was stated on reddit that the indicator is bugged and hence you have an even shorter reaction window to actually react to. I am not sure if this is fixed already but I usually try to predict where my opponent's gonna hit and concentrate on blocking to maybe be able to swap directions at the last moment if I have to.
Covers way too much distance. This soley guarantees that Shaman is superior in every 4v4 game mode (especially in tribute) She can be everywhere on the map and engage opponents. If she is right on the edge of your screen not 1 second later she is in your face probably dealt some damage already and go into her unblockable mixup. Furthermore I cannot stress enough how insanely powerful this is when it comes to team fights. She can just instantaniously disengage an opponent and jump upon another maybe to interrupt a lethal attack on a team mate without actually having to mind much about her own opponent and punishment possibilities.
Can change directions very shortly before the actual attack

Her throwing distance is also as mentioned before unnecessarily high. That only gives a huge advantage in 4v4s but also in duel situations as you easily wallsplat.

Her side dodge attack Wild Cat's Swiftness is safe on block and is a heavy. Meaning good damage while having no threat of getting punished as severe as a light parry punish. Furthermore it is short ranged/quick. Meaning opponents don't have much time to prepare to punish her with a parry nor to readjust if they feinted.

I don't know how the reworks turn out to be, but surely there still have to be some readjustments to be done to the shaman to get her to a reasonable spot. The changes so far are going in the right direction (for instance the increased recovery time after a missed predator's mercy) but it definitely should not stop there.

I agree with what you said. Shaman on release, could be classified as overpowered. She had so many wrongly tuned (overtuned) stats that piled up together would yield an overpowered hero.

Upon several tweaks so far, the overpowering factor has been largely set aside; she's still somewhat overtuned. What she still needs is:

- Either remove guaranteed headbutt/bite on GB after throw, or remove wallsplat from headbutt.

- Reduce her throwing distance.

- Change her feats (bleed bomb needs to go, and she doesn't need Second Wind).

- Upon missed second Predator's Mercy attempt during the same bleed status on opponent, she should be drained of stamina (OOS), and one Predator's Mercy should cost half her stamina bar.

- Readjust her sprinting speed while carrying an offering in Tribute.

- Fix her wrongly timed attack indicators on her jumping attacks (Wildcat's Rage)

- Readjust all directions of her Wildcat's Rage attacks to have same attack speed.

- Predator's Mercy shouldn't be feintable/cancellable (when opponent is in bleed status).

Should the above changes happen, she'll be just fine and a rightful S-tier hero, without being overpowered at all. Everything else about her is fine. Her kit flow is amazing and isn't what's making her look 'overpowered'; it's because the rest of the cast are unable to perform as she does, and she was released earlier than she should be.

Centurion on release was definitely overpowered. For Honor's combat system revolves entirely around stamina management; and Centurion on release not only directly targeted this core pillar in For Honor's system, but also unfairly nuked it to his advantage. That, is overpowered. He definitely needed that wallsplat nerf.

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 02:22 PM
wow this dude actually singed in to the forums to defend his new cheese character.

let me copy and paste whats fundamentally wrong with her:

her throwdistance is abnormal far for an assasin. even more so since a mercy/hunger is guaranteed from a throw. this needs to be adressed.
cut her throwdistance short and remove the guaranteed mercy/hunger from throw.


mercy/hunger is still an easy 400 ms free damage/wallsplat/ledgethrow. even more so since it can be hold to bait out an reaction and get the hit then.
hunger needs a much bigger wind up for the amount of reward you get from it.
Mercy needs an even bigger wind up animation or even a selfdamage penalty. as of now mercy is basically a demons embrace with NO negative side effects.


for a character with auto-healing she does not deserve the maximum assasin hp. she is faster, has saver attacks, and with her wildcats attacks even the same attack range as shinobi and yet she has more hp than him? cut her hp down to 100.


she is an assasin with auto-heal build in but yet she gets access to the Second Wind and Flesh Wound feats. this is just wrong. 25% damage resistance and additional healing is not something for such an fast assasin. this turns her more into a tank than most other characters that are supposed to be a tank.
replace Flesh Wound with Doom Banner and replace Second Wind with Throwing Axe.


w0w a repreated copy pasta post let me point out how it's "fundamentally flawed."

"her throw distance is abnormal for an assassin"
k and? this inherently isnt a problem on it's own.

"even more so since a mercy/hunger is guaranteed from a throw this should be addressed."
how about no? Her best damage is from throws if you actually look at her numbers. Range is also a huge problem for her. So she needs it both for actual damage and to keep pressure.

"mercy/hunger is still an easy 400ms free damage/wallsplat/ledge throw. Even more so since it can be hold to bait a reaction."
400ms is the speed of the tackle animation. The length that you people specifically and convienently always forget is much longer because it has to come AFTER A DODGE. Meaning it's longer. By you sticking to the "400ms" number and leaving that out it's just fluffing your argument. Also holding to bait isn't strong. as A) if you're close enough for that to actually matter someone can poke you out of it. and B) to do either hold for the pounce or for the heavy you are forced to do a mandatory transition animation. Which gives people plenty of time to react to it either at range or up close.

"basically a demons embrace with no negative side effects."
No. Embrace has OHK potential and the health it gives varies. Bigger gain. Bigger punishment if fail.
pred's mercy requires bleed to proc. Much harder to get to happen compared to demons. Demons just needs a GB and a wall. Arguably easier than attempting a deflect. Zone is super punishable. canceling from raw heavy into a bleed poke is hilariously easy to see coming since it's from neutral even if they go for the quickest bleed poke up top. The only other semi consistent way of getting bleed reliably is from a GB into soft feinted heavy to top bleed poke. But that's basically the same level of difficulty to obtain compared to goki needing a GB. Except her payout is less than his extreme payout. so it's balanced in that regard.

"for a character with auto healing she does not deserve the maximum assassin hp."
why? just because you feel that way? we just went over how difficult it is to proc bleed.

"her wildcats attacks even the same range as shinobi and yet she's got more HP than him?"
first it's attack* wlidcats rage. Second Shinobi is far more mobile than her and much safer than her. It's a lot harder to punish a very passive shinobi that dips in and out than punishing a shaman whos literally trying to pounce/dash heavy from max range.

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 02:26 PM
She's frustrating because she's the only kit in the game that can be fully used at any skill bracket.
As good as glad is his combos go un used and toe stab is less effective the higher you go in skill brackets.

Basically if you are really good at countering say her unblockable heavy mix up she's still got her passive play and pounce/rage mix up.
If you're good at dealing with her pounce/rage mix up she's still got the unblockable heavy mix up and passive play.
and if you are really good at dealing with her passive play she's still got those other 2 styles to fall back on.

Basically she's forcing everyone to learn even more things. And people don't like learning new things.
She also makes it painfully clear how bad base kit design is.
Centurion was the first hero that forced people to learn to watch and defend against more than one thing. Since shaman is doing this again but with even more it's making people feel bad. and so they blame her instead of getting better as a player.

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 02:37 PM
By any chance are you a duelIist because as a dominant player her throw distance is abnormal for an assassin"
k and? this inherently isnt a problem on it's own. That is a issue the rest I can almost agree with but there's no argument why an assassin has the ledge potential as a heavy in dominion she's gets a enviromental death easier then raider warlord ?

Arekonator
01-25-2018, 02:40 PM
"She is much stronger than any other character, with zero downsides, but that doesnt mean she is overpowered."

dirtydannx
01-25-2018, 02:40 PM
She's frustrating because she's the only kit in the game that can be fully used at any skill bracket.
As good as glad is his combos go un used and toe stab is less effective the higher you go in skill brackets.

Basically if you are really good at countering say her unblockable heavy mix up she's still got her passive play and pounce/rage mix up.
If you're good at dealing with her pounce/rage mix up she's still got the unblockable heavy mix up and passive play.
and if you are really good at dealing with her passive play she's still got those other 2 styles to fall back on.

Basically she's forcing everyone to learn even more things. And people don't like learning new things.
She also makes it painfully clear how bad base kit design is.
Centurion was the first hero that forced people to learn to watch and defend against more than one thing. Since shaman is doing this again but with even more it's making people feel bad. and so they blame her instead of getting better as a player.

Well said... finally someone who knows how to block lol

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 02:40 PM
Fourms are hard to tell but sarcasm?

dirtydannx
01-25-2018, 02:41 PM
"She is much stronger than any other character, with zero downsides, but that doesnt mean she is overpowered."

Berserker and aramusha and highlander all hard stronger hits

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 03:05 PM
By any chance are you a duelIist because as a dominant player her throw distance is abnormal for an assassin"
k and? this inherently isnt a problem on it's own. That is a issue the rest I can almost agree with but there's no argument why an assassin has the ledge potential as a heavy in dominion she's gets a enviromental death easier then raider warlord ?

I exclusively duel. I'm not against her throw distance being nerfed. Just from my perspective I don't see it as a big deal.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 03:18 PM
I agree with what you said. Shaman on release, could be classified as overpowered. She had so many wrongly tuned (overtuned) stats that piled up together would yield an overpowered hero.

Upon several tweaks so far, the overpowering factor has been largely set aside; she's still somewhat overtuned. What she still needs is


- Either remove guaranteed headbutt/bite on GB after throw, or remove wallsplat from headbutt.

I say remove the guaranteed throw


- Reduce her throwing distance.

Agreed, the most cancerous thing ever is getting thrown by the smallest character in the game @ warlord distance


- Change her feats (bleed bomb needs to go, and she doesn't need Second Wind).

Agreed, she has way to much survivability even without Second Wind


- Upon missed second Predator's Mercy attempt during the same bleed status on opponent, she should be drained of stamina (OOS), and one Predator's Mercy should cost half her stamina bar.

God Id love to see this happen, very upsetting that she can spam these moves before I can even recover from my dodge.


- Readjust her sprinting speed while carrying an offering in Tribute.

Readjust her sprinting speed, THE ONLY TIME she should be faster than Shinobi is with the feat. Nobody should run faster than Shobi.


- Fix her wrongly timed attack indicators on her jumping attacks (Wildcat's Rage)

Ive noticed this too, though didnt wanna say anything cuz i wasnt sure if it was lag or not.


- Readjust all directions of her Wildcat's Rage attacks to have same attack speed.

Yep


- Predator's Mercy shouldn't be feintable/cancellable (when opponent is in bleed status).

Hmm, this could be a pretty good one....

Lastly, I think her HP and Shinobis should both be reduced to 100, the character with the best survivability in the game, doesnt need the most HP an assassin can have.

To those who are saying it: Her bleed is not hard to proc, its far easier than anyone else in the game.... It still works at every skill bracket, top tier players still get hit by it, so lets not act like the ability doesnt exist because people parry the attack when its the only thing you go for.

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 03:34 PM
@BTTrinty

That logic cuts both ways my dude.
i've seen top tier players still get hit by a shoulder bash or a warden zone. Doesn't mean those things are good.
Just because people can still be hit by her bleed doesn't mean her bleed is easy to proc.

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 03:55 PM
Now I understand from a duel perspective the bash after throw doesn't add anythingand the in a strictly 1v1 her kits good but very manageable but from dominion she can reach almost all of the enviromental deaths from the objective point that your normally safe from warlord or lb or in 1 v x they can just spam bash well a team mate attacks

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 03:56 PM
Now I understand from a duel perspective the bash after throw doesn't add anythingand the in a strictly 1v1 her kits good but very manageable but from dominion she can reach almost all of the enviromental deaths from the objective point that your normally safe from warlord or lb or in 1 v x they can just spam bash well a team mate attacks

ya know. I never thought about the added distance a bash gives after throw. perhaps throw range should be toned down then for 4v4 sake.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 04:08 PM
You dont see top tier players being smashed by shoulder bash nearly as often as you see them get smashed by Shamans bleed and bash/bite, so thats literally a non-argument.

Never said it was "easy to proc" I said it was "Far easier than any other bleed move to proc"

Lastly, how the actual hell do you defend this hero? Shes literally has the best everything in the game that isnt range, even that is hardly a drawback considering shes the fastest character in the game (Nobody should be faster than Shinobi, the only time its acceptable is with a speedboost feat/power up)...

She has the best CC, best Soft Feints and Mixups, best running speed, best lunge/gap closer, best throw distance, best survive-ability, AND The best HP an assassin can have.... HOW DO YOU DEFEND THIS HERO?

Literally everything should be nerfed in her kit IN SOME WAY to actually make her the jack of all trades, right now shes master of all trades (at least until the reworks come out, then possibly revert if shes not as good when that happens) EDIT: Im not asking for a sledgehammer nerf, just slight ones that actually make her fit the jack of all trades description.

Or, they can give her 100HP because, Shinobis drawback for having literally the best everything in the game in S2 was having an HP of 5 or something, then again hes a Samurai, cant expect the devs to give Samurai fair treatment. Why is it that Samurai cant be meta for longer than 2 days, but all Romans favorites get to stay meta for for 2 seasons

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 04:14 PM
You dont see top tier players being smashed by shoulder bash nearly as often as you see them get smashed by Shamans bleed and bash/bite, so thats literally a non-argument.

Never said it was "easy to proc" I said it was "Far easier than any other bleed move to proc"

Lastly, how the actual hell do you defend this hero? Shes literally has the best everything in the game that isnt range, even that is hardly a drawback considering shes the fastest character in the game (Nobody should be faster than Shinobi, the only time its acceptable is with a speedboost feat/power up)...

She has the best CC, best Soft Feints and Mixups, best running speed, best lunge/gap closer, best throw distance, best survive-ability, AND The best HP an assassin can have.... HOW DO YOU DEFEND THIS HERO?

Literally everything should be nerfed in her kit IN SOME WAY to actually make her the jack of all trades, right now shes master of all trades (at least until the reworks come out, then possibly revert if shes not as good when that happens) EDIT: Im not asking for a sledgehammer nerf, just slight ones that actually make her fit the jack of all trades description.

Or, they can give her 100HP because, Shinobis drawback for having literally the best everything in the game in S2 was having an HP of 5 or something. (At least until the reworks come out, then possibly revert her if shes not as good when that happens)

that's not easily provable. More so what people struggle with vaires. I for instance struggle with valk. That doesn't mean valk is good. Nor that i'm a bad player. point i'm trying to make is the point you made wasn't a very strong one.

I don't see how it's easier than PK to proc bleed.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of your post. it's spoken with anger.

I'm not against her receiving nerfs and i've listed my own suggestion nerfs wise. I just don't agree with most suggested nerfs.

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 04:15 PM
Only reason i asked is to understand your pov I can agree more with what your saying now but I think most people are tailoring the arguments on shaman from a 4v4 perspective ik I tend to were as the game modes are completely different the game play kinda changes (way easier to react to one hero then 4)

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 04:17 PM
Only reason i asked is to understand your pov I can agree more with what your saying now but I think most people are tailoring the arguments on shaman from a 4v4 perspective ik I tend to were as the game modes are completely different the game play kinda changes (way easier to react to one hero then 4)

Yeah I learned back with centurion in season 2 that my views are different because of that.
i'm fully aware that i'm blind to potential issues in 4v4.
But that doesn't usually change my perspective for the most part.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 04:17 PM
that's not easily provable. More so what people struggle with vaires. I for instance struggle with valk. That doesn't mean valk is good. Nor that i'm a bad player. point i'm trying to make is the point you made wasn't a very strong one.

If you watch a lot of top tier players, youd know Shaman is the most stupid thing in this game thats EVER happened. Its hardly what you said, considering EVERY top tier player Ive watched play the game still has more issues with Shaman than everyone else in the game.


I don't see how it's easier than PK to proc bleed.

Because in order to deflect, the person has to swing (Pretty hard to get someone to do that against PK)

In order to triple stab the person has to be REALLY BAD and swing when he shouldnt, and not know how to CGB


I'm not even going to touch the rest of your post. it's spoken with anger.

More like you wont touch it because its all right, and couldnt prove me wrong even in your dreams.


I'm not against her receiving nerfs and i've listed my own suggestion nerfs wise. I just don't agree with most suggested nerfs.

Yeah, with your list of nerfs shes still the best everything in the game.

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 04:20 PM
@BTTrinity

You do know PK also gets bleed on heavy attack that lands? she gets bleed on all dodge/dash attacks.
as well as having a soft cancel into a bleed poke from a raw heavy. Triple stab isn't the only way she gets bleed.

Considering you missed that and you're being super arrogant i'm just going to mute you.
Maybe next time you want have a discussion you won't scream at the person.

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 04:22 PM
That's true for most heros but she's still a bit strange in 4v4 imo she's doesn't play as an assassin acretype she plays way more like a hybrid then say valk does i think it's just the cc ability she has

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 04:24 PM
That's true for most heros but she's still a bit strange in 4v4 imo she's doesn't play as an assassin acretype she plays way more like a hybrid then say valk does i think it's just the cc ability she has

True. But I think that's because she's a jack character. I would have much rather she been called a hybrid. But then she'd have to have a static guard. and that would make her a much bigger problem coupled with her current recovery. Maybe they could change it so bleed from allies only procs mercy for her if it's a bleed from a talent and not bleed from other heros standard moves?

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 04:28 PM
@BTTrinity

You do know PK also gets bleed on heavy attack that lands? she gets bleed on all dodge/dash attacks.
as well as having a soft cancel into a bleed poke from a raw heavy. Triple stab isn't the only way she gets bleed.

Considering you missed that and you're being super arrogant i'm just going to mute you.
Maybe next time you want have a discussion you won't scream at the person.

bye felicia, talking to you is like beating a dead horse anyway. (It does nothing)

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 04:30 PM
True but I think if they switched her to hybrid then she could have like a valks superior block attack or something similar at least then they could justify her having such an amazing kit and that's my biggest hatred is shaman nobushi combo

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 04:32 PM
Bt take a chill pill and leave dead horses alone

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 04:32 PM
True but I think if they switched her to hybrid then she could have like a valks superior block attack or something similar at least then they could justify her having such an amazing kit and that's my biggest hatred is shaman nobushi combo

do you think my suggested change would help? I don't 4v4 much so I can't say.
superior block is a pretty interesting mechanic. I love it on kensei.
idk. I feel like most of the weird for her just comes from the rest of the OG kits lacking.
I feel like if the reworks are a big hit then she might not feel as bad. I know that's a big thing to hinge stuff on.
But I really like the way her kit came out. I'd really hate to see the first ever kit that works at all levels be smacked hard enough that it won't be that way anymore.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 04:39 PM
Bt take a chill pill and leave dead horses alone

Will do, ill try to never talk to one again, you have my word. (or beat one for that matter)

Devils-_-legacy
01-25-2018, 04:40 PM
Honest to God she shouldn't get anything from a team mate putting bleed on someone other then her own bleed attacks so any nurf on that i will agree with lol I was in game where one shaman was 1 v 1 next thing ik she got revenge because the rest of my team joined in and just fed her bleed damage I was the only one left standing of my team she went from critical to full health from my team mates stupidity and she was only rep 1 she's strangely effective in 4v4. On a plus if they get it right with the reworks then yh she may not feel so strange but it's a long wait

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 04:43 PM
Honest to God she shouldn't get anything from a team mate putting bleed on someone other then her own bleed attacks so any nurf on that i will agree with lol I was in game where one shaman was 1 v 1 next thing ik she got revenge because the rest of my team joined in and just fed her bleed damage I was the only one left standing of my team she went from critical to full health from my team mates stupidity and she was only rep 1 she's strangely effective in 4v4. On a plus if they get it right with the reworks then yh she may not feel so strange but it's a long wait

I mean I wouldn't mind if it wasn't procced by allies at all. I just think the synergy is kind of cool since I don't think we've ever really seen anything like that yet.

High-Horse
01-25-2018, 06:05 PM
I mean I wouldn't mind if it wasn't procced by allies at all. I just think the synergy is kind of cool since I don't think we've ever really seen anything like that yet.

It's a similar team synergy as Centurion + anyone with a knockdown for that Eagle Talon pounce, but much worse imo. You gotta keep your head on a swivel if you're fighting a bleed hero and don't see their shaman anywhere. One more reason I stick to duels.

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 06:28 PM
It's a similar team synergy as Centurion + anyone with a knockdown for that Eagle Talon pounce, but much worse imo. You gotta keep your head on a swivel if you're fighting a bleed hero and don't see their shaman anywhere. One more reason I stick to duels.

Well I mean there are certain ways to combo other heros sure. but imo this feels like the first real synergy in the game. can't explain why.

High-Horse
01-25-2018, 06:39 PM
Well I mean there are certain ways to combo other heros sure. but imo this feels like the first real synergy in the game. can't explain why.

Honestly it feels more like an oversight. Team synergy would be a cool new dynamic, but it doesn't seem intentional. Like I don't think Way of the Shark works with an ally's bleeds, just the Nobushi.

But maybe it will stay and we'll see more cross-hero combos. I think it could be fleshed out into something exciting and hopefully intuitive.

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 07:25 PM
Honestly it feels more like an oversight. Team synergy would be a cool new dynamic, but it doesn't seem intentional. Like I don't think Way of the Shark works with an ally's bleeds, just the Nobushi.

But maybe it will stay and we'll see more cross-hero combos. I think it could be fleshed out into something exciting and hopefully intuitive.

yeah db fighter z got me all hyped for tag/team fights. so wish I could see something more direct team move wise.

Alustar.
01-25-2018, 08:00 PM
Just fyi, I've got peacekeeper to rep 17 and shaman at 10, and Raime is correct, it is infinitely easier to land bleeds with PK than shaman. In fact, getting an opponent bleeding can be difficult enough that I will usually tag in with either a PK, Nobushi, or shinobi, so that I can focus other areas of the kit and take advantage of the bleed when my allies get them in.

Also on the topic of her effectiveness in 4s she is only strong when paired with another player. I'm still not confident with her against more than two opponents. While some have issues with her throw distance cause of ledging, that ability to maneuver opponents is really one of the only things keeping her viable without getting trounced like shinobi.

All of her distance closers and CC require am boot up animation before the ability executes, is easy for groups of players to pin her down and keep her from don't anything. So, honestly I think shaman is fine. Maybe reduce the throw distance by a bit, but that's really all the tweaking I would do now till we see where the rest of the roster land. Her confirmed damage is only really an issue for new players on 1v1 since in 4s it locks you into animation against a single opponent, leaving you wide open to external attacks. If I'm getting ganked, I can tell you from experience, if I try and throw or use WCR or any of the predators moves I'm going to get hit from the side or back and killed.

HazelrahFirefly
01-25-2018, 10:21 PM
I agree with you about the Shaman, Alustar. She was initially OP, but her first nerf and thr tracking fixes made her normal. The latest nerfs are too much if you ask me. She's barely a threat now.

brashtralas
01-26-2018, 02:51 AM
bye felicia, talking to you is like beating a dead horse anyway. (It does nothing)

Wow. Hahaha

Why is mute even a thing? This guys is basically in an echo chamber, at this point.

Ahhhh, why do I still come here?

bob333e
01-26-2018, 05:35 AM
Also, does our kleek have a name yet?

Kleekbringers, Inc.

https://i.imgur.com/Hul4rNn.gif

ArchDukeInstinct
01-26-2018, 06:44 AM
So many people complain about shaman and she isn’t even over powered.. look at orochi no one cares about him now but people used to cry themselves to sleep at night at the start. He doesn’t have much to brag about.

Shaman does have a lot to brag about though. What a completely counterproductive "argument" for your conclusion. Orochi who has nowhere the amount of viable moves as Shaman was considered OP so that must mean Shaman is not OP. Like what the heck dude.


Every player is over powered in there own way.

No, they have strengths that are counteracted by weaknesses whereas Shaman gets a combination of superior versions of other people's moves with none of their weaknesses or weaknesses unique to her. Which is exactly why Shaman is considered OP. It's essentially the definition of imbalanced, there's nothing but strengths for this character.


Look at the centurion has so many stun moves and knock backs ow and a stab once your down once your pinned it’s game over due to stun stamina reductions.

Yet he's tied for lowest health, lowest heavy damage, and lowest light damage in the game. It's almost like Centurion has... weaknesses to make up for his strengths like his stamina damage and overall stamina pool and strong light parry and wall splat punishes? Wow what an odd thing. And Shaman has a far superior version of his legion kick that is feignable, faster, and can wall splat.


Look at the Berserker can hit a 55 with a heavy no complaints?

It's not his standard heavy, that's within a combo where he already threw one heavy out. Maybe you should learn how to parry or even just block? The only reason you should be getting hit by that is that you traded in damage while he had hyper armor on that or you fell while in OOS. Thanks to that second heavy doing 55 damage, Berseker has a superb OOS punish that Shaman steals because she can do a heavy, a heavy combo finisher and then a bleed attack on opponents that fell in OOS.


Or a highlander in the wrong hands gives me nightmares!

You're terrible. If your idea of strong characters in this game are Berserker and Highlander then you are truly clueless.


Or even a parry happy warden Or even a raider cheesing you grab run knee stun hit and repeat. Revenge in brawls? or revenge in general that’s even more op than any play will ever be.

LOL So now it's just mechanics that everyone including Shaman has? (ignoring raider knee stun part)


People need to stop crying about stuff and just have fun it’s a game after all! If you think shaman is op use them and Ull soon go back to a different character once you get dodged and parried.

That's exactly it though, you can't have fun because the character diversity has been drastically reduced because you either have to play as Shaman or hope the opponent shamans are terrible at the game as you sound to be.