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Baggin_
01-21-2018, 10:41 PM
They're out of control. I hope they do something about them soon.

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 02:26 AM
They're out of control. I hope they do something about them soon.

Yeah, they've been brought up quite a bit recently. To rewarding for how easy they are to use, most would agree they need to be toned down.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 01:31 PM
I'd rather they remove them completely from the game, and replace them with other team-centric, cooldown-based feats.

What they need to remove from the game:

- Fire Flask
- Pugno Mortis
- Catapult
- Igneus Imber
- Arrow Storm
- Arrow Strike
- Spear Storm
- Nail Bomb

Mini1900
01-22-2018, 03:43 PM
When teams go for last fight , and one team has 2 lawbringer for example, then have fun avoid and dodge 6 grandes , additional to that r 2 other players with thier own feats, then its gg ! and u can do nothing when u have most passive feats ! I join fady117, thy need to get remove or replace .

The_B0G_
01-22-2018, 04:23 PM
Everyone agrees they are too much, I say strengthen lower tier passive feats for 4th tier and make AOE feats basically the same damage as a light attack and stick them in the lower tiers, people will use them for killing soldiers then. Keep the same recharge time for them though.

Arekonator
01-22-2018, 04:55 PM
Let me abuse my bombs in peace. Throwing explosives around is ancient and honorable martial art!

Seriously though, easiest fix i can think of is to add damage falloff. Full damage in 1m radius from the center, droping down to 1/2 (maybe 1/3 ? needs to be tested what works) at the very edge. It would mean you need to actually predict enemy movement and carefully aim to get full reward and being on recieving end means you eat less damage if you react to it, even if it doesnt get negated completely. Sure, being hit for 30ish damage still hurts, but thats acceptable for tier 3/4 feat and your team will get hurt but not completely wiped out by that one good catapult.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 05:06 PM
If removing them or replacing them proves too hard, the easiest fix is enabling full-damage on teammates, and full-damage on self too, from using the AoE feats. That way everybody will be extra careful about using them. No more happy cheese.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/c35dd9f28fe0d5b716d185a523ae4457/tumblr_o48qpmC1Pu1r2igm4o2_500.gif

The_B0G_
01-22-2018, 05:28 PM
If removing them or replacing them proves too hard, the easiest fix is enabling full-damage on teammates, and full-damage on self too, from using the AoE feats. That way everybody will be extra careful about using them. No more happy cheese.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/c35dd9f28fe0d5b716d185a523ae4457/tumblr_o48qpmC1Pu1r2igm4o2_500.gif

I suggested this a few times. It could be used to troll, but its the easiest fix.

Arekonator
01-22-2018, 05:34 PM
I prefer being naded by enemy over being naded by salty teammate. It would open whole big new can of worms.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 05:44 PM
I suggested this a few times. It could be used to troll, but its the easiest fix.

Agreed, trolling is definitely obvious. But this will do more good than bad. At least as a temp fix until these AoE feats are looked at and changed/removed.


I prefer being naded by enemy over being naded by salty teammate. It would open whole big new can of worms.

The only instance where a teammate would be salty, would be if you stole their kills/executions in 4v4s; otherwise why would your teammate get salty at you? I dunno.

An easy fix for that: renown penalty if you kill a teammate. Like, -200 renown.

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 05:55 PM
Agreed, trolling is definitely obvious. But this will do more good than bad. At least as a temp fix until these AoE feats are looked at and changed/removed.



The only instance where a teammate would be salty, would be if you stole their kills/executions in 4v4s; otherwise why would your teammate get salty at you? I dunno.

An easy fix for that: renown penalty if you kill a teammate. Like, -200 renown.

Also enable an auto kick for when you go negative in renown.

EDIT: Or when you kill someone on your team more than once (Like halo, back in the good ol days.)

Arekonator
01-22-2018, 05:58 PM
Are we even playing the same game? People in public matches get salty on others with and without valid reasons all the time.
Skewed perception of contribution to the match, being sabotaged by other people hitting you in the back constantly or just screwing with teammates because they can.
If you think full friendly fire on AoE feats would cause people to be more thoughtfull about using them, then i am afraid you are giving your average random too much credit. They will nail others anyway and then commence the flamewar. Year since relase and how many of them still didnt grasp the concept of not hiting your teammates during fight? I am sorry but you are being a bit naive.
I am all for tweaking their power, hell, i abuse them enough to know how stupid they can be, but i guarantee you that unrestricted friendly fire would just make life worse for anyone involved.

Too_Beaucoup
01-22-2018, 05:58 PM
I prefer being naded by enemy over being naded by salty teammate. It would open whole big new can of worms.


yes, people would teamkill just to troll too. As a relative new player to FH, I can say for certain that I have lost games to massive AOE strikes at the end of the game too many times to count now. Especially when it is a tight game! There is very little time given before you are vaporized. it is frustrating. Let players handle the win or loss at the end of the game, just like we do throughout the first 98% of the game. Make L3 and 4 feats buff teammates or debuff the enemy team. or for example, Make the level 4 feat give you an auto Resurrection during team breaking periods.This game is about melee combat. Yet too many times at the end of games, it is decided by ranged AOE by *******es just emote spamming on some bridge somewhere. Feats aren't even a core mechanic of the game (at least to me) yet it decides the outcome of (too) many games.


In the very least, it deserves a major nerf to damage. 25 points of damage max.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 05:58 PM
Also enable an auto kick for when you go negative in renown

Better yet, auto-kick if you kill 3 teammates in one match. The trolling player could have like 900ish renown, then during the last few minutes, with having all feats open, he could troll his entire team and still retain 100 or so renown.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 06:10 PM
Are we even playing the same game? People in public matches get salty on others with and without valid reasons all the time.

Yes, we are. Far too often we meet ill-mannered randoms. Especially in Dominion. But for a misinterpreted scenario and wrong judgment to justify losing renown, I don't think these people you're mentioning would be willing to sacrifice renown just to troll you, because of 1 stolen kill or something, or a random ruined GB.

From the way you're wording it, you seem to be playing on PC? where in-game chat is open and people just insult each other? on PC in the in-game open chat, people will always insult you anyway, no matter what you do or how you play. There will always be someone who complains. The naivety here, is worrying about these people, my friend.

Renown penalty with a full-damage on self and teammates still sounds better than simply nerfing AoE feat damage by roughly half. Because the former solution will halt AoE feat spamming during end-match for easy damage and easy wins. Which is the core issue presented here.

It's all a temp fix too. Until these feats are reworked or replaced with other things, and the whole concept of AoE bomb-blasting is removed from the game because it has no place in For Honor, honestly.

At the very least, AoE bomb-blasting should remain restricted to Story Mode.

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 06:13 PM
Better yet, auto-kick if you kill 3 teammates in one match. The trolling player could have like 900ish renown, then during the last few minutes, with having all feats open, he could troll his entire team and still retain 100 or so renown.

I say two kills should = kick...

Like Big Boss from MGS says "If it happens once you can try to give them a warning, if it happens twice, dont let it happen again."

Arekonator
01-22-2018, 06:41 PM
Because players going out of their way and sabotaging their own team out of spite just for some ill-percieved slight is totally unheard of.
I can already see people nuking the whole end-game cluster**** teamfight kilng everyone indiscriminately when they think its worth it. They will spam it anyway, teammates be damned, i can say that one for sure. It will just double the ammount of AoE you have to worry about.
Its solution on the level of leaver penalty. It did absolutely nothing to fix the issues it targeted, people are still leaving and making whole lobbies crash at the same rate as before. All it managed to do is to make people just that little bit extra angry when game hangs up in the victory screen.
If they have to touch it, i would prefer proper solution right away, be it damage tweaks, rework or complete replacement, than putting in half-assed "temporary" solution that is just going to make the game that much more frustrating for god knows how long. We got to take into account how is ubi adressing long-standing issues, and to be fair, their track record isnt the best to put it lightly.

TL;DR I just dont think your proposed solution will have desired effect.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 06:48 PM
Well replacing these feats is no small task. I agree it will take time. Don't forget they play an important role in Story Mode, so they still gotta be present in Story Mode, just removed from multiplayer.

Leaver penalty is already getting worked around, if you Alt-F4 / force-quit rather than quit in-game, you avoid the 10min penalty. It was a suggestive fix, not a definitive fix.

Game hanging up on victory screen / entire match crashing are faulty P2P issues which hopefully will be rendered completely obsolete as dedicated servers arrive.

I, too, would prefer they right away replace those feats. But again, it's no small task at all. And simply nerfing their damage will still allow them to be spammable end-match. Just prolonging the inevitable.

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 07:03 PM
Because players going out of their way and sabotaging their own team out of spite just for some ill-percieved slight is totally unheard of.
I can already see people nuking the whole end-game cluster**** teamfight kilng everyone indiscriminately when they think its worth it. They will spam it anyway, teammates be damned, i can say that one for sure. It will just double the ammount of AoE you have to worry about.
Its solution on the level of leaver penalty. It did absolutely nothing to fix the issues it targeted, people are still leaving and making whole lobbies crash at the same rate as before. All it managed to do is to make people just that little bit extra angry when game hangs up in the victory screen.
If they have to touch it, i would prefer proper solution right away, be it damage tweaks, rework or complete replacement, than putting in half-assed "temporary" solution that is just going to make the game that much more frustrating for god knows how long. We got to take into account how is ubi adressing long-standing issues, and to be fair, their track record isnt the best to put it lightly.

TL;DR I just dont think your proposed solution will have desired effect.

Gonna be honest, I think it would have his desired effect far more often than it resulting in the negative, especially if they enable auto-kicking for people who decide they do wanna do it (If you kill more than one teammate, or go negative in renown.)

Any other game that I play with friendly fire ends up being fine more often than not. (Around 100 hours in siege, still havent found a single team-killer on my team) and those who do find one, kick them right away. So 2 team-kills is forgiving as it is.

bob333e
01-22-2018, 07:15 PM
Gonna be honest, I think it would have his desired effect far more often than it resulting in the negative, especially if they enable auto-kicking for people who decide they do wanna do it (If you kill more than one teammate, or go negative in renown.)

Any other game that I play with friendly fire ends up being fine more often than not. (Around 100 hours in siege, still havent found a single team-killer on my team) and those who do find one, kick them right away. So 2 team-kills is forgiving as it is.

Ah, for R6 Siege I think there's a TK ban in place. No one wants to get banned. I agree, 2 teamkills for an auto-kick is rather much more forgiving than a complete TK-ban (for 24hours I believe) if you keep killing teammates (not sure what the limit is, I've never played Siege).

JadeBosson.
01-22-2018, 07:31 PM
there ok as is but good job on jumping on the follower bandwagon

however if they do get changed I'm all for full team damage or maybe 75% over removal as me and a few friends play a booby-trap type game in customs with them

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 07:39 PM
there ok as is but good job on jumping on the follower bandwagon

however if they do get changed I'm all for full team damage or maybe 75% over removal as me and a few friends play a booby-trap type game in customs with them

You're saying its okay for someone thats not even on the same point as you to gib 4 people that are fighting before they can even react? Didnt expect to hear that one.

UbiInsulin
01-22-2018, 10:29 PM
Hey guys, I'll ask if any changes are being considered to the balance of the AoE feats. I don't know if the team damage solution would be worth the griefing it would enable, but it's definitely something to consider.

Too_Beaucoup
01-22-2018, 10:45 PM
Hey guys, I'll ask if any changes are being considered to the balance of the AoE feats. I don't know if the team damage solution would be worth the griefing it would enable, but it's definitely something to consider.

How about just nerfing the damage output hard so it doesnt equal instakill while near full health. Im not a dev but seems like this would be easy to implement. Or make it where it does its current damage output but is equally spread out amongst players in the circle thus not instakilling the whole team.

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 11:15 PM
Hey guys, I'll ask if any changes are being considered to the balance of the AoE feats. I don't know if the team damage solution would be worth the griefing it would enable, but it's definitely something to consider.

Please, give the word that a lot of us want them removed. They have no place in a game like this, why there are feats that completely negate the concept of the game are beyond me.

ChampionRuby50g
01-23-2018, 01:16 AM
The griefing would not be worth it. Players already donít care about stealing kills or slamming attacks into my rear, if they see the last person alive they are all gonna come in and gank them for a chance to get that kill regardless if they have feats or not. But if one ally has a feat that can kill, theyíll use it simply because they want the better stats on the leaderboard at the end of the match. Theyíll kill teammates without a second thought. Making feats full friendly fire wonít solve anything. Feats donít require a band-aid fix, they need a proper fix. Canít tell you the amount of times Iíve been clearing minions at B and a knight on my team has thrown a bomb there and cleared the rest of them while doing damage to me. If this is added in, theyíll clear the rest of the minions, get healed if they have body count, earn 20+ renown and kill me. The negative renown is not a deterrent at all. Siege is a perfect example. Played it regularly, level 178 and in casual team killers are rife. Itís the biggest issue with the game right now and that community hates it. You do get kicked, but you can search again straight away. Then, if it continues you get bans for 24hrs-week- so on. But, itís not that hard to make a 2nd account to play again. Like the leaver system, there are ways to get around a ban.

Baggin_
01-23-2018, 02:50 PM
I read a pretty good idea on another thread that basically said if the enemy team is breaking then the AoE feats are disabled for your team.

That didn't seem like a bad idea to me. I like the damage reduction too, so that it's not an instakill.

The_B0G_
01-23-2018, 03:22 PM
I read a pretty good idea on another thread that basically said if the enemy team is breaking then the AoE feats are disabled for your team.

That didn't seem like a bad idea to me. I like the damage reduction too, so that it's not an instakill.

If they did that they would have to disable for both teams though, it would be just as unfair to have the losing team make a come back due to 3rd and 4th feats.

PDXGorechild
01-23-2018, 04:56 PM
Hey guys, I'll ask if any changes are being considered to the balance of the AoE feats. I don't know if the team damage solution would be worth the griefing it would enable, but it's definitely something to consider.

How many players on these forums can actually say they frequently come across griefers or trolls that are on your own team?

Honestly, I see it so rarely. The only incidence of it I see is when a (Not so) friendly team mate has a tribute order and might slap you with a light when you try to pick up a flag, so he can complete his orders. This is more selfishness than trolling or griefing anyway.

I've never had a team mate attack me, or use the environment (Gauntlet bridges etc) to kill me.

I've never had a team mate use a feat to disrupt or damage me.

I've never had a team mate intentionally block my escape so that they enemy team has killed me.

Why does everyone think that suddenly if AoE feats caused damage to team mates as well, that everyone would devolve to trolls and start killing their own team?

Too_Beaucoup
01-23-2018, 05:06 PM
Why does everyone think that suddenly if AoE feats caused damage to team mates as well, that everyone would devolve to trolls and start killing their own team?

because ive played enough online games to know better. YMMV

The_B0G_
01-23-2018, 05:12 PM
How many players on these forums can actually say they frequently come across griefers or trolls that are on your own team?

Honestly, I see it so rarely. The only incidence of it I see is when a (Not so) friendly team mate has a tribute order and might slap you with a light when you try to pick up a flag, so he can complete his orders. This is more selfishness than trolling or griefing anyway.

I've never had a team mate attack me, or use the environment (Gauntlet bridges etc) to kill me.

I've never had a team mate use a feat to disrupt or damage me.

I've never had a team mate intentionally block my escape so that they enemy team has killed me.

Why does everyone think that suddenly if AoE feats caused damage to team mates as well, that everyone would devolve to trolls and start killing their own team?

I hardly ever see griefers besides afker