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View Full Version : Revenge is useless.



OhHowSheGoingEh
01-20-2018, 01:45 AM
What's the point of using revenge? Activating it doesn't knock anyone down, in fact all it does is give the enemy a free attack of whatever they were doing before I popped it or it leaves me open for a guard break.
I don't become tanky at all, I'm pretty sure I become weaker in all honesty and I don't get hyper armor during my attacks, I always get knocked out of my attacks.

Alustar.
01-20-2018, 02:39 AM
You need to time it better, using attacks that are parry bait is a good way. Also keep an eye on external stairs as they can interrupt your activation easily, however, they are also just susceptible to it. It takes practice to maximize punish for this mechanic, I suggest don't custom matches against multiple boots and turn of auto populate to keep it constantly a 1v3-4 to help you practice this. I did this to help handle groups better solo with my peacekeeper.

bob333e
01-20-2018, 02:49 AM
I second Alustar, in that going into Custom Match, turning off auto-add bots, and get yourself ganked is the ideal practice for anti-gank or gank survival. Bear in mind it's a lot harder than it sounds (when you choose level 3 bots anyway). 3 out of 10 times I actually manage to beat two or three level 3 bots while using Revenge. Revenge isn't a win button; it does help but there'll always be a limit. And I never survive a 4v1.

UbiJurassic
01-20-2018, 03:13 AM
Generally, you want to try and activate revenge as the enemy is mid-swing on their attack in order to knock them down. If you're not as tanky as you'd like to be, you might want to look into investing more into the "Revenge Mode Defense" stat. Know that this will trade off with your other stats though, leaving you deficient in another area.

Revenge certainly isn't as strong as it used to be, but smart use of the revenge mechanic can still turn the tide of a fight against multiple opponents. If you start getting crowded by more than two opponents though, you may want to consider a strategic retreat to regroup with the members of your team.

OhHowSheGoingEh
01-20-2018, 06:04 AM
Still doesn't work, I can activate at the start of my opponents swing, take the hit. Activate it in the middle of their swing nothing happens. I can activate just before it hits me nothing happens. I had a match earlier today where I was being ganged up on by Highlander and lawbringer.
The highlander uses his Celtic curse, when he raises his sword before swinging it down I popped my revenge and nothing absolutely nothing. He then proceeds to land the first hit which takes a good chunk of my revenge shield off and follows up with the second swing which also connected and takes off the remainder of my shield. While all of this is happen the lawbringer decides to throw a top heavy out which proceed to kill me effectively three shotting me. ( I have +17.3 revenge mode defense )

mrmistark
01-20-2018, 06:16 AM
Still doesn't work, I can activate at the start of my opponents swing, take the hit. Activate it in the middle of their swing nothing happens. I can activate just before it hits me nothing happens. I had a match earlier today where I was being ganged up on by Highlander and lawbringer.
The highlander uses his Celtic curse, when he raises his sword before swinging it down I popped my revenge and nothing absolutely nothing. He then proceeds to land the first hit which takes a good chunk of my revenge shield off and follows up with the second swing which also connected and takes off the remainder of my shield. While all of this is happen the lawbringer decides to throw a top heavy out which proceed to kill me effectively three shotting me. ( I have +17.3 revenge mode defense )

Your problem here lies with Celtic curse then. You got played my friend. Simple as that. You must have activated revenge mid swing of his initial Celtic curse and then he soft fiented it into a side. Activating revenge acts as a parry. The parry mechanic doesnít last 3 seconds. Itís instantaneous like a parry, it just has a little more grace at timing, but still has its time limit, the HL soft feint takes enough time that you need to actually react instead of standing there for 2 seconds assuming the revenge will auto parry everything. Revenge will always make you more powerful, even without stat boosts your attacks are uninteruptable. Perhaps youíre just playing against people who spam GB which would explain why you think is so useless, but it single handedly makes your hero way stronger. What character where you playing out of curiosity?

OhHowSheGoingEh
01-20-2018, 07:44 AM
Your problem here lies with Celtic curse then. You got played my friend. Simple as that. You must have activated revenge mid swing of his initial Celtic curse and then he soft fiented it into a side. Activating revenge acts as a parry. The parry mechanic doesnít last 3 seconds. Itís instantaneous like a parry, it just has a little more grace at timing, but still has its time limit, the HL soft feint takes enough time that you need to actually react instead of standing there for 2 seconds assuming the revenge will auto parry everything. Revenge will always make you more powerful, even without stat boosts your attacks are uninteruptable. Perhaps youíre just playing against people who spam GB which would explain why you think is so useless, but it single handedly makes your hero way stronger. What character where you playing out of curiosity?

I wasn't "played" he did a top heavy Celtic curse no feint, nothing just a top heavy followed by a side heavy and my revenge didn't phase him at all.
I was also playing Highlander as well.

mrmistark
01-20-2018, 04:00 PM
It sounds like youíre just popping it too early then honestly. No one else has been having this problem or the forums would be flooded with complaints. Perhaps it was bad lag

OhHowSheGoingEh
01-20-2018, 10:19 PM
It sounds like youíre just popping it too early then honestly. No one else has been having this problem or the forums would be flooded with complaints. Perhaps it was bad lag

Does this look to early?

http://xboxclips.com/exltheon/1e51f0ec-9d18-4789-b64e-21f1045b233a/embed

Alustar.
01-20-2018, 10:30 PM
Does this look to early?

http://xboxclips.com/exltheon/1e51f0ec-9d18-4789-b64e-21f1045b233a/embed

Thank you! This right there is exactly why we need more video proof, yes that should have sent both of those guys back. But I think that aramusha perk is throwing it off or buggy? I don't know. You shouldn't have been cut through like that though.

OhHowSheGoingEh
01-20-2018, 10:32 PM
Thank you! This right there is exactly why we need more video proof, yes that should have sent both of those guys back. But I think that aramusha perk is throwing it off or buggy? I don't know. You shouldn't have been cut through like that though.

The aramusha would have been knocked off balanced, not knocked to the ground but off balance at least to give me some breathing room.

Alustar.
01-20-2018, 10:35 PM
The aramusha would have been knocked off balanced, not knocked to the ground but off balance at least to give me some breathing room.

Exactly, that's a bug. I've not had that problem, but I would put that video into a big ticket. The devs can dissect that scenario and come up with a solution to help fix it in the future.

RenegadeTX2000
01-20-2018, 10:43 PM
Honestly I feel like Attacks in Revenge mode should be unparryable, it would make attacks like Centurions, Highlander, Valk etc better as a crowd control. When you do use those all it does is control you once they parry them lol. Unblockables on the other hand could still be parried but that would be up to the final say of devs. But I think my first point should still happen.

mrmistark
01-21-2018, 12:48 AM
I watched the video multiple times. When you swap your focus it does make it hard to see but it looks like the only one to try to attack at least via indicator and visual is the aramusha, though admittedly it does sound like multiple hits though after the patch all sounds are really jacked up too. If they had their rock steady feat they wouldnít have been unbalanced which would explain why you got steam rolled.

If parried with rock steady for both aramusha and shugoki, nothing happens and they still can attack like normal.

OhHowSheGoingEh
01-21-2018, 06:08 AM
I watched the video multiple times. When you swap your focus it does make it hard to see but it looks like the only one to try to attack at least via indicator and visual is the aramusha, though admittedly it does sound like multiple hits though after the patch all sounds are really jacked up too. If they had their rock steady feat they wouldnít have been unbalanced which would explain why you got steam rolled.

If parried with rock steady for both aramusha and shugoki, nothing happens and they still can attack like normal.

Why would it matter if I switched targets or not? The aramusha would still hit me at the same time whether or not I kept focus on him or swap targets.
Rock steady doesn't let you bypass the revenge activation ( well it's not suppose to ) rock steady makes you immune to wall splats, immune to a centurion fully charged jab, immune to any OOS punish, i.e being parried or thrown.

ChampionRuby50g
01-21-2018, 06:24 AM
Honestly I feel like Attacks in Revenge mode should be unparryable, it would make attacks like Centurions, Highlander, Valk etc better as a crowd control. When you do use those all it does is control you once they parry them lol. Unblockables on the other hand could still be parried but that would be up to the final say of devs. But I think my first point should still happen.

And then how would anyone stop someone in revenge? There would literally be nothing a player could do for the duration of revenge other than block, take heaps of damage or run. Revenge isnít a god mode button. It was suggested back in Season 2 I believe that revenge attacks should not be possible to parry, but that never made it into the game.

OhHowSheGoingEh
01-21-2018, 09:15 AM
And then how would anyone stop someone in revenge? There would literally be nothing a player could do for the duration of revenge other than block, take heaps of damage or run. Revenge isnít a god mode button. It was suggested back in Season 2 I believe that revenge attacks should not be possible to parry, but that never made it into the game.

Maybe not make revenge attack unparryable but maybe make it so you can't be affected by cents charged jabs, raider running grab, shugokis demon demon embrace that kind of stuff.

Jazz117Volkov
01-21-2018, 09:33 AM
Speaking of the unbalance feat; Revenge should probably provide that.

Overall though, I think Revenge is pretty powerful. You have infinite stamina and can guardbreak through pretty much everything. It forces your opposition to be careful and consequently ease up (because you can punish them very easily). But it isn't and should never be a "win button" when you're outnumbered.

Don't use Revenge like a smart bomb. It's not a power up attack.
Use it to ledge people or escape...or ledge people and escape.

ChampionRuby50g
01-21-2018, 12:29 PM
Maybe not make revenge attack unparryable but maybe make it so you can't be affected by cents charged jabs, raider running grab, shugokis demon demon embrace that kind of stuff.

I can get behind that for sure. I swear something of the sort was actually implemented in a previous patch and it worked well but then kinda broke and hasnít been fixed. I remember when Valk would do her spear sweep and sheíd get knocked back and it wouldnít effect, now it does effect my hero. Unblockable melee attacks should not effect you in revenge as they do. Shugo demon embrace when you pop revenge is a death sentence, raider charge, LB charge even. You should also be able to activate revenge while in a Raider charge or Shugo embrace and it will knock you out of it and reset the raider or shugo to neutral.

mrmistark
01-21-2018, 02:08 PM
Why would it matter if I switched targets or not? The aramusha would still hit me at the same time whether or not I kept focus on him or swap targets.
Rock steady doesn't let you bypass the revenge activation ( well it's not suppose to ) rock steady makes you immune to wall splats, immune to a centurion fully charged jab, immune to any OOS punish, i.e being parried or thrown.

I made the point of switching targets to say that in doing so it made it easily difficult to see exactly who was attacking and I had to watch multiple times to see who indeed attacked and who didnít. Aramusha was the only one who attacked.

You are completely wrong about rock steady and revenge activation. Revenge activation acts as a parry, and as described by the rock steady description, parries do not off balance the character while the feat is active.

Alustar.
01-21-2018, 02:31 PM
I made the point of switching targets to say that in doing so it made it easily difficult to see exactly who was attacking and I had to watch multiple times to see who indeed attacked and who didnít. Aramusha was the only one who attacked.

You are completely wrong about rock steady and revenge activation. Revenge activation acts as a parry, and as described by the rock steady description, parries do not off balance the character while the feat is active.
I disagree, in normal parry, there is a short window where any external attackers well be parried as well. This is true with revenge as well. I've certainly miss timed my own attacks and do got caught by the activation buff. In this scenario everyone should have received knock down(aside from maybe much of he had rock steady) but they just cut through him like he didn't do anything.

Again, I urge you to put in a bug ticket let the devs decide if it is a problem and how to fix it. don't rely on players to pass a verdict when they aren't the final authority.

Devils-_-legacy
01-21-2018, 02:34 PM
As a musha I will say this happens a lot I've always thought of it as lag sometimes I'm knocked back (looks like superior block) other times the revenge activation doesn't do anything still let's me do a chain I'd say send it in to the team

Titanodragon
01-21-2018, 10:33 PM
It seems like revenge either gives you hyper armour or you just get to look all flashy with no benefit at all

BTTrinity
01-22-2018, 02:29 AM
Honestly I feel like Attacks in Revenge mode should be unparryable, it would make attacks like Centurions, Highlander, Valk etc better as a crowd control. When you do use those all it does is control you once they parry them lol. Unblockables on the other hand could still be parried but that would be up to the final say of devs. But I think my first point should still happen.

I like your ideas lol, we need more of you. (The Aramusha deadly feinting zone attack is the other one I was fond of)

ChampionRuby50g
01-22-2018, 03:32 AM
I like your ideas lol, we need more of you. (The Aramusha deadly feinting zone attack is the other one I was fond of)

Ok think of it this way. As it is now, Valks 2nd and 3rd light attack in her chains are not that difficult to parry if you are switched on and paying attention. Itís why I hardly see any Valks throw multiple lights out in a row, they fear been parried for a dangerous punish. They get revenge, still wonít spam lights because they could be parried. Also, keep in mind the communityís current thoughts on lightspam, and wanting less of it in the game. If attacks in revenge become unparrayble it will result in this Valk players mindlessly spamming light attacks at you and overwhelming you a lot easier as you have nothing to counter/escape with now. Making all attacks in revenge not possible to parry is something this game does not need. Beserker starts his infinite combo in revenge, all his attacks are uninterruptible and the only way to stop him would be parry. Now you canít do that, and just have to pray you block enough attacks. This would make all the strong heroes that are a cut above the rest of the cast even stronger, when its not needed.