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Hawgdog
06-21-2004, 01:01 PM
I dont get it, why are they supposed to cause lag, at least thats always the whine when someone starts flying one. I dont see the lag, frankly I see more lag caused by dufus map makers adding 2500 tanks shooting at each other And detailed cities far more than any jet.

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Hawgdog
06-21-2004, 01:01 PM
I dont get it, why are they supposed to cause lag, at least thats always the whine when someone starts flying one. I dont see the lag, frankly I see more lag caused by dufus map makers adding 2500 tanks shooting at each other And detailed cities far more than any jet.

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HeinzBar
06-21-2004, 01:07 PM
S!,
I hear this complaint nearly everytime I fly my beloved me262. The theory is the black exhaust causing the lag. I think this is highly doubtful. I'm w/ you about map makers. A lot of map makers forget to pre-load aircraft. This one trick helps w/ lag/stutter tremendously.

HB

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BennyMoore
06-21-2004, 01:21 PM
The exhaust does create some slight lag (which is why we don't allow wingtip smoke at the House of Odin), but it's really so slight that no one would notice. It's not nearly as bad as the lag you get from having one person in the server with a fifty six kay. Therefore I feel that it's foolish and pointless to disallow one of the game's features like that. They didn't put in those jets so that people could not use them because of a stupid excuse. Now, on most of the missions I make, I disallow jets for fairness reasons, but I have a mission that is pure jets. I'm also going to make a mission combining jets and the usual aircraft.

We should feel lucky; in Red Baron 3D, if someone's engine caught fire and they did not instantly refly, the server would crash without fail. It was a bug in the game engine that they never removed.

PF_Coastie
06-21-2004, 02:21 PM
I dont believe ALL jets cause lag. Perhaps maybe on overburdened maps as said above.

But, The ME-163 definately does cause lag though. I believe it is just too fast for the game. Or it has a bug. This has been confirmed and Oleg is aware of it. If you get a server with 2 or more 163's in it, you will see huge amounts of lag.

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Zayets
06-21-2004, 02:40 PM
I was this weekend for a race on IL2Racing. After few races everybody took a jet (not roket) for a spin. Was mayhem but that was the best laugh I have had in a while.Playing like little children,crashing and all that stuffs. One thing I remeber,the lag was pretty big and I remeber even now, my ping was 100-150,others the same. I don't know if jets caused the lag,but previously on the 109 race was no lag at all.And was one player more,if I remember correctly.I fancy jets,Ilike to have the opportunity to fly them online,but probably the hosts have a reason.

Zayets out

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ASH at S-MART
06-21-2004, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawgdog:
I dont get it, why are they supposed to cause lag, at least thats always the whine when someone starts flying one. I dont see the lag, frankly I see more lag caused by dufus map makers adding 2500 tanks shooting at each other And detailed cities far more than any jet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly! I was on HL the other day.. joined a server that had ALL AC enabled.. Now I have never tried the Me163 online.. So I thought it would be neat to try.. As I did then a "CO" from some WUFA sqd or something (I forget his actual handle) starting crying about LAG.. Now keep in mind this "CO" didn't start to complain during the first encounter.. Where he was on my six in his P47 putting rounds up my tail pipe.. No.. He started complaining in the second encounter where I was on his six putting lead in his P47s rear end.

At which point he went on and on about how JETS cause lag... No proof what so ever presented.. Just the typical I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who said it did..

Well what is lag typically caused by? Basically a connection that can not maintain a good CONSISTENT rate of data being transferred.

With that said.. Selecting a JET and flying it fast does not change the rate your PC can send data!

Granted, due to higher speeds your XYZ will be changing more from one data point to the next.. But many PROPS can reach similar high speeds in a dive.. So that argument is baseless.

In short there has never been any data or explanation that would even begin to allude to JETS causing lag!

IMHO it has more to do with peoples frustration that they can not adapted to the situation to deal with JETS.. That is it is easier to blame something like LAG then one's own SKILLS!

ASH HOUSEWARES
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lucas_valentine
06-21-2004, 03:23 PM
Jets don't seem to cause lag....but when some bugger in a 262 fires 50,000 rockets per second and is firing 50,000 canon shells at the same time, this does seem to cause a little, no I mean A LOT of lag!

Mitlov47
06-21-2004, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lucas_valentine:
Jets don't seem to cause lag....but when some bugger in a 262 fires 50,000 rockets per second and is firing 50,000 canon shells at the same time, this does seem to cause a little, no I mean A LOT of lag!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This might be the key. In my experience the mk108 causes a lot of lag--especially if its shells hit the ground. The Me262 carries FOUR mk108s if I remember correctly. So people might blame the propulsion when it's the armament that's the real problem?

I never put mk108s on my BF-110 because it causes too much lag when I'm strafing columns, even offline.

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ASH at S-MART
06-21-2004, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mitlov47:
This might be the key. In my experience the mk108 causes a lot of lag--especially if its shells hit the ground. The Me262 carries FOUR mk108s if I remember correctly. So people might blame the propulsion when it's the armament that's the real problem?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. lets be clear here... Just because your VIDEO stutters does not equate to a LAG of your aircraft on the distant end.. Put another way.. if you *see* stutter on YOUR END when you fire your 108s does not necessarily mean your aircraft appeared to LAG to someone else logged in and watching your aircraft... The reverse is true.. Just because you see *someone else* Me262 exhibit LAG like movement when they fire their guns does not mean *his* connection is bad "OR" that he appeared to lag to everyone else.. The COMMON denomator here is your VIDEO card.. If certain graphic cause STUTTERS (i.e. LAG like effects) it does not necessary mean *THEY* lagged!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mitlov47:
I never put mk108s on my BF-110 because it causes too much lag when I'm strafing columns, even offline.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This indicates the STUTTER is on your end.. not lag due to the connections.. but STUTTERS (i.e. LAG like) due to your video card... No mater WHO fired the 108s, your vid card can not handle it.. Which is a whole different topic from LAG due to connection consistency/speeds

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Maj_Death
06-21-2004, 06:03 PM
I havn't ever noticed any lag with most jets but the Me-163 seems to have a very big problem. I think it is just some sort of bug though. The Me-262, He-162 and P-80 don't have any lag problems online. Oleg is aware of this problem so I think it will be corrected.

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BaldieJr
06-21-2004, 09:33 PM
Yanno, I had the exact same experience with that exact same CO.

It takes all kinds I guess.

WUAF_Badsight
06-21-2004, 10:07 PM
all WUAF members will ask you to get out of the Me163

this is because the Me163 causes SLOWDOWN of FB

flying one online is not a polite thing to do in ANY server at the moment

coop or DF

because the Me163 is currently Bugged

is causes FB to go into slowdown

.
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Mitlov47
06-21-2004, 11:38 PM
Ash_Smart: thanks for clearing that up for me. Computers aren't my strong point.

By the way--"It's a trick. Get an axe."

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WTE_Galway
06-21-2004, 11:55 PM
part of the problem is the term "lag" is used in a general context to cover a number of different game slow downs including:

a) true lag .. related to internet bandwidth and connectivity problems

b) more commonly something that slows down the server itself causing the game to stutter (example dropping 1000's of parachutist online)

c)things that can cause slow downs and stutter at the CLIENT end (examplel .. video problems mentioned above)

NorrisMcWhirter
06-22-2004, 12:57 AM
Hi,

As in the Me262 not in enough plane sets thread, I suspect it is down to the bias of the host and the lag is just an excuse.

Cheers,
Norris

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Bill_Door
06-22-2004, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
.. but STUTTERS (i.e. LAG like) due to your video card... No mater WHO fired the 108s, your vid card can not handle it.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, and the real tragic is, the problem the most -slower- video cards get with the mk108 ist the handling of the useless "flame-thrower at night" muzzle blast Oleg refused to fix. So this problem is absolut homemade and totally senseless http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

269GA-Maxmars
06-22-2004, 01:37 AM
This is true also in real life, you know. All the times I've crossed the atlantic, no matter which plane I was in, I suffered from jet lag.

Kudos to Oleg for implementing that!

ASH at S-MART
06-22-2004, 04:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
all WUAF members will ask you to get out of the Me163<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. just to re-cap.. This server at the time had ALL AC aval.. Said CO started beyaaaaching and yelling GET OUT OF THE JETS (Me262, P80, Me163, etc) because that JETS cause LAG.. Even though said CO was not the HOST of the server.. Said CO went on and on about it for so long that finally the host asked that I stop flying JETS, At which point I did. If you want to talk about LAG.. Said CO's beeyaching LAGGED the server more then the 163 did! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS JETS in this conversatioin was a generaly understood by all to mean NON-PROPS which leaves the JETS and ROCKETS... And I guess even the GLIDERS! &lt;G&gt;

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
this is because the Me163 causes SLOWDOWN of FB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm not saying this is NOT TRUE.. My only point is NO ONE HERE to date has presented ANYTHING to back up that statment... Which again, I aint saying it is not true.. Only that I have not seen anything that will convince me otherwise.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
flying one online is not a polite thing to do in _ANY_ server at the moment

coop or DF

because the Me163 is currently Bugged

is causes FB to go into slowdown<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*IF* that is true.. then you would have a point.. But like I said above.. Nothing has been presented here to convice me it is true.. Just saying it does not make it a trueism.. I offer this in contrast.. My *experance* in this area indicates it has nothing to do with NON-PROPS and everything to do with BIAS and or lack of SKILL to deal with NON-PROPS situations.. Or, if SAID person is trully experancing *LAG LIKE* effects than it has more to do with SAID persons VIDEO card capabilitys and NOT thier or other person(s) internet connection.

ASH HOUSEWARES
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[This message was edited by ASH_SMART on Tue June 22 2004 at 03:21 PM.]

ASH at S-MART
06-22-2004, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
part of the problem is the term "lag" is used in a general context to cover a number of different game slow downs including:

a) true lag .. related to internet bandwidth and connectivity problems

b) more commonly something that slows down the server itself causing the game to stutter (example dropping 1000's of parachutist online)

c)things that can cause slow downs and stutter at the CLIENT end (examplel .. video problems mentioned above)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactally!

ASH HOUSEWARES
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ASH at S-MART
06-22-2004, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mitlov47:
Ash_Smart: thanks for clearing that up for me. Computers aren't my strong point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>NP!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mitlov47:
By the way--"It's a trick. Get an axe."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL!
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ASH at S-MART
06-22-2004, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Hi,

As in the Me262 not in enough plane sets thread, I suspect it is down to the bias of the host and the lag is just an excuse.

Cheers,
Norris
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I belive that too.. and excuse that helps them justify thier bias.. Maybe to the point that they actually start to belive it.

ASH HOUSEWARES
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WUAF_Badsight
06-22-2004, 10:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
Only that I have not seen anything that will convince me otherwise.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i have many 262 / P80 coops

they run fine till i swop the Jets for the Me163

then they become unplayable

more Me163s & more people in them = even greater slowdown

flying them online is not polite at the moment with the way it is

you were not in a JET , but the Me163

you were asked to get out of the Me163

because the Me163 LAGS out FB

it causes slowdown & stutters

its bugged

to see this happen only needs you in a multi person room & for someone to spawn & takeoff in the Komet

even just 1 causes it

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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ASH at S-MART
06-22-2004, 11:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i have many 262 / P80 coops

they run fine till i swop the Jets for the Me163

then they become unplayable

more Me163s & more people in them = even greater slowdown

flying them online is not polite at the moment with the way it is

you were not in a JET , but the Me163

you were asked to get out of the Me163

because the Me163 LAGS out FB

it causes slowdown & stutters

its bugged

to see this happen only needs you in a multi person room & for someone to spawn & takeoff in the Komet

even just 1 causes it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry.. but still no sale.. As a mater of fact tonight I was on the =AIRWARS= server.. And they had a late war senario where the Lw had Me163s and Me262s.. There were about 12 people up.. where 5 were Lw in Me262 and about 3 Me163s.. I saw no lag when in my P-63 chasing a Me163.. And when I later jumped into a Me163 I did see one guy lagging relitive to me.. but the rest were fine.. As a mater of fact I got into a very fun 1 on 1 TnB DF with a guy and it was very stable.. In short.. no one has presented anything that convinces me that JETS cause lag.. You repeating what you allready said does not make it more convincing either... And just to RE-CAP Im not saying your wrong.. Only that you have not said anything that would convicne me otherwise.. Maybe there is something about your VIDEO or 56K that makes it seem that way on your rig? Just know that it is not the same for all!

ASH HOUSEWARES
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Spectre-63
06-23-2004, 01:17 AM
I'd have to agree with Ash on this....

While it is possible that the ME-163 has a bug in it that's affecting the Net code, the only "proof" I'd accept would be a comparison between the network traffic levels when a ME-163 was used vs, say, a BF-109. In order for those traffic benchmarks to have any meaning, it'd need to be a closed server, preferably with the clients in close proximity to the server. The best way to do it would be to put a network sniffer on a LAN game and have it watch comparative traffic levels.

There are too many possible reasons for a degradation in network performance that could coincide with a switch in planesets. The only way you'll get valid data is to isolate it and test with real equipment - not the human eye.

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WUAF_Badsight
06-23-2004, 03:33 AM
i got a perfectly fine GPU & Internet connection

i know what warp is & how warp is different to slowdown & Lag

the Me-163 causes slowdown of FPS & Stutters in FB as it is at the moment

changing coops that have the 262 over to the 163 causes a perfectly fine running coop to become unplayable

your the only one to not have this problem

every DF server that has them spawn that WUAF members have noticed have caused the game to slowdown

other people have said the same thing to me & other WUAF

the Me-163 is bugged as it is & isnt good for online play

it has been pointed out to Maddox Games & has been recognised as such

hopefully its fixable as its a cool plane

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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Spectre-63
06-23-2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i got a perfectly fine GPU & Internet connection

i know what warp is & how warp is different to slowdown & Lag

the Me-163 causes slowdown of FPS & Stutters in FB as it is at the moment<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what quantifiable evidence do you have of this? I'm not saying it's not happening, I'm simply saying that there are too many things that can happen over the internet to trust the Mark I eyeball.

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Hawgdog
06-23-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spectre-63:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i got a perfectly fine GPU & Internet connection

i know what warp is & how warp is different to slowdown & Lag

the Me-163 causes slowdown of FPS & Stutters in FB as it is at the moment<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what quantifiable evidence do you have of this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ah..........'cause.....

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Spectre-63
06-23-2004, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawgdog:
_ah..........'cause....._

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_When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you! _

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahhh...the dreaded "'cuz I said so" defense! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ASH at S-MART
06-23-2004, 10:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spectre-63:
ahhh...the dreaded "'cuz I said so" defense! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sad but true.. Sad but true.. There is no reasoning with people like that.. They have their minds made up.. Or should I say thier BIAS set in stone? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They feel that thier opinion and experances are the only ones posiable.. Thus they just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if it will make it true... One thing this thread has remined me of is the reason I dont get envolved here too much anymore.

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WUAF_Badsight
06-24-2004, 03:26 AM
well it takes like 10 seconds of a coop running to notice the difference

runs fine as a 262 coop

reload the 163 version & spawn .... once they are airborn its a slow running stuttery mess

doesnt need proving as the ppl in the coop see it

as i said B4 Maddox games know about it & relize there is something wrong with the Me-163

wether its the speed of the thingg or its long smoke trail , i dont know

but i do know that the Me-163 causes gameplay slowdown as it is now in V2.01

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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WUAF_Badsight
06-24-2004, 03:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
They have their minds made up.. Or should I say thier BIAS set in stone? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

like you know everything ASH

if you dont have the ability to listen then its a waste of your time coming here to read isnt it ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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Philipscdrw
06-24-2004, 04:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:

Or should I say thier BIAS set in stone?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My Bios is set in silicon.

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PF_Coastie
06-24-2004, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spectre-63:
ahhh...the dreaded "'cuz I said so" defense! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sad but true.. Sad but true.. There is no reasoning with people like that.. They have their minds made up.. Or should I say thier BIAS set in stone? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They feel that thier opinion and experances are the only ones posiable.. Thus they just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if it will make it true... One thing this thread has remined me of is the reason I dont get envolved here too much anymore.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, You might want to look in a mirror man. I have just read this entire thread and you seem to be the one presenting NO proof to the contrary. If you can't take someones word for something, then why ask in the first place?

I think your name fits you well if you flip the words around.

If you can not take the word of 3 different respected members of this community then I guess nobody will convince you. Myself, Maj_death and Badsight have all told you that it IS a problem with the Comet and you have all but called us liars. We have also said that this is a KNOWN BUG that was confirmed by Oleg himself and you still dont believe it.

My squad is in the Fighter sweep 2 competition and I am an admin. The very first time we tried the 163's in a competition it was a disaster. This was confirmed by several different well respected squads in the community. 663rd, 161st just to name a couple. The result was to eliminate the 163 from the jet rounds to ensure smooth gameplay.

I would suggest trying this yourself and enable external views. Play with other planes to start to make sure server is ok. Then get 2 or 3 163's in the air and watch the lag begin. I have noticed it is worst when you get one or 2 of them to exceed 1,000kph.

PF_Coastie

Coasties Place (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/)

CATALYST 4.2 OGL (http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/atioglxx.zip)

Coasties FB and ATI settings (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/IL2setup.html)
http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/images/FS_SIG.jpg
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ASH at S-MART
06-24-2004, 08:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
like you know everything ASH<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hardly

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
if you dont have the ability to listen then its a waste of your time coming here to read isnt it ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually your the one that does not have the ability to listen.. In that I pointed out the =AIRWARS= server had a senario just the other day.. 3+ 163s running around and a few Me262 and no one was complaining of strange warps. Feel free to disregard that.. As you have clearly shown here that only your experances mater. Enjoy!

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
06-24-2004, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
LMAO, You might want to look in a mirror man.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Everyday.. and it is GROOVY!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I have just read this entire thread<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Congrats!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
and you seem to be the one presenting NO proof to the contrary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No more proof than anyone else! Which I agree is NONE! Big differance is I pointed out EARLY ON that there may be a problem JUST THAT nothing has been presented here that *I* would consider proof! So my congrats or your READ of it may be premature! In that you seem to be under the impression that I said my experances are proof.. I never did, I simply pointed that what most have noted here isnt either.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
If you can't take someones word for something, then why ask in the first place?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes.. you do need to re-read it.. And note I never did ASK!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I think your name fits you well if you flip the words around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You seem to be under the impression that I care about what you think.. Please know that I dont! Please feel free to read it again!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
If you can not take the word of 3 different respected members of this community then I guess nobody will convince you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There are also people here who have noted the oposite.. So what is your point?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Myself, Maj_death and Badsight have all told you that it IS a problem with the Comet and you have all but called us liars.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As did they when I pointed out I have not experanced what they experanced. I did go further and say there may be a problem.. Only that nothing to date would prove it to be LAG due to internet connections.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
We have also said that this is a KNOWN BUG that was confirmed by Oleg himself and you still dont believe it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No one has said that! They have said they reported it, and that ubi knows about it.. But there is a big differance between knowing about a problem and ackowleging its source. I thought you said you read all of this thread?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
My squad is in the Fighter sweep 2 competition and I am an admin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Send me your address and Ill send you a gold star for your fridge door.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
The very first time we tried the 163's in a competition it was a disaster. This was confirmed by several different well respected squads in the community. 663rd, 161st just to name a couple. The result was to eliminate the 163 from the jet rounds to ensure smooth gameplay.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, in that it is clear that you didnt read it, NOTE that the TOPIC here is *if* JETS (ie none props) cause LAG.. Where LAG is the typical definition.. Not stutters due to video.. etc.. Im simply saying nothing has been presented to indicate that while flying a Me163 it CHANGES THE RATE AT WHICH YOUR DATA IS TRANSMITED OVER THE INTERNET. Which is said to HIGHLIGHT the fact that the problem is most liklye due to SOMETHING ELSE! The LAG LIKE effects *SOME* experance could be due to SOUND CARDS, VIDEO CARDS, etc.. Many things can cause LAG LIKE EFFECTS and have nothing to do with the actual internet connection rate. THAT SIMPLE POINT THAT YOU MISSED IS WHY YOU SHOULD RE-READ what you claim to have allready read and understood.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I would suggest trying this yourself and enable external views. Play with other planes to start to make sure server is ok. Then get 2 or 3 163's in the air and watch the lag begin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>HAD YOU READ IT YOU WOULD KNOW THAT I HAVE BEEN THERE DONE THAT!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
I have noticed it is worst when you get one or 2 of them to exceed 1,000kph.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok two gold stars!

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

PF_Coastie
06-24-2004, 09:09 PM
LOL, You got serious issues man. I bet you sleep with a gun under your pillow don't you?

Have a good life, Enjoy your trolling sir.

S!

PF_Coastie

Coasties Place (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/)

CATALYST 4.2 OGL (http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/atioglxx.zip)

Coasties FB and ATI settings (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/IL2setup.html)
http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/images/FS_SIG.jpg
Click here to find out more about FIGHTER SWEEPS 2 (http://663blacktigers.net/FS2index.html)


OFFICIAL ATI BETA TESTER

ASH at S-MART
06-24-2004, 09:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
LOL, You got serious issues man. I bet you sleep with a gun under your pillow don't you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Still trying to get a rise out of me? First the swipe about you thinking my name fits me well if you re-arange the letters.. Now this?

WEAK BROTHER!

A sure sign of a man with no answers..

Just to recap, in lue of your re-read... Chew on this one more time.. You know the part you had no commont to..

Again, in that it is clear that you didnt read it, NOTE that the TOPIC here is *if* JETS (ie none props) cause LAG.. Where LAG is the typical definition.. Not stutters due to video.. etc.. Im simply saying nothing has been presented to indicate that while flying a Me163 it CHANGES THE RATE AT WHICH YOUR DATA IS TRANSMITED OVER THE INTERNET. Which is said to HIGHLIGHT the fact that the problem is most liklye due to SOMETHING ELSE! The LAG LIKE effects *SOME* experance could be due to SOUND CARDS, VIDEO CARDS, etc.. Many things can cause LAG LIKE EFFECTS and have nothing to do with the actual internet connection rate. THAT SIMPLE POINT THAT YOU MISSED IS WHY YOU SHOULD RE-READ what you claim to have allready read and understood.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Have a good life,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>HAVING! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Enjoy your trolling sir.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How did you put it? "You might want to look in a mirror man" seems you might want to take your own advice here in light of your troll like ways I pointed out in the first part of this reply to you.

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

El Turo
06-24-2004, 09:38 PM
Ash wins.



Btw.. same Ash from WWIIOL?

Come get some!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

WUAF_Badsight
06-24-2004, 10:18 PM
wins what ?

the ignorance award ?

everyone who i have asked who has done any testing at all have all replied the same

without exception

the Me-163 causes slowdown of FB Gameplay

lowering of FPS & Stutters

i never mentioned warp

but the komet has a issue with it , its bugged as it is

even offline this happens so mr ASH can leave the internet arguments out & try something else

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

PF_Coastie
06-24-2004, 10:24 PM
Correct badsight, The issue has been confirmed BY OLEG. Obviously Smart ash, I mean Ash Smart Can not believe it for what ever reason that the 163 DOES have a bug that messes with the net code and DOES Cause LAG for EVERYONE!

PF_Coastie

Coasties Place (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/)

CATALYST 4.2 OGL (http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/atioglxx.zip)

Coasties FB and ATI settings (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/IL2setup.html)
http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/images/FS_SIG.jpg
Click here to find out more about FIGHTER SWEEPS 2 (http://663blacktigers.net/FS2index.html)


OFFICIAL ATI BETA TESTER

El Turo
06-24-2004, 10:33 PM
No! The much coveted "arguing on the internet" golden tard helmet!

All he said was that there was a distinct lack of quantifiable evidence to support your contention.. really, that's it.

But, you guys continue floundering around to your heart's content.

Rage on!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

PF_Coastie
06-24-2004, 11:24 PM
LOL, anyone could say that to any thread in here and be 100% correct. That is proof that he is doing nothing but trolling.

Several people have told Hawgdog(the original poster) that it is a known bug with the 163 causing the lag. That why people are not including them on thier maps.

Hawgdog is also correct about crappy maps being put up which is simply a problem we will always have until these people are showed how to make a "friendly" map.

PF_Coastie

Coasties Place (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/)

CATALYST 4.2 OGL (http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/atioglxx.zip)

Coasties FB and ATI settings (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/IL2setup.html)
http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/images/FS_SIG.jpg
Click here to find out more about FIGHTER SWEEPS 2 (http://663blacktigers.net/FS2index.html)


OFFICIAL ATI BETA TESTER

El Turo
06-24-2004, 11:26 PM
I just happened to stumble upon this skin and it made me laugh.. which is funny in itself because I hate vulchers. But, I gotta give the guy some cred.. this is funneh! What do you think?

http://members.chello.se/tom.k/797.jpg

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Dawg-of-death
06-25-2004, 01:29 AM
Data base of jets......... Who cares. Props forever

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

crazyivan1970
06-25-2004, 05:27 AM
Relax people, it`s a known issue. No need to jump each other and no need to deny it either. It`s there.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

NorrisMcWhirter
06-25-2004, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Turo:
Ash wins.
~V.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
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ASH at S-MART
06-25-2004, 09:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
LOL, anyone could say that to any thread in here and be 100% correct. That is proof that he is doing nothing but trolling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Trol huh? Well if this is not another case of the coffie calling the kettle black!

You either like trolling or dont understand what this thread is about. Ill assume the later..

In lue of your pending re-read

Start with the TITLE of the THREAD

Note the word Debate.. followed by JETS CAUSING LAG

Lets begin with a typical definition of LAG. LAG is when your *data* is *delayed* getting to/from one PC to/from another due to associated network hardware and/or network software, i.e. your INTERNET CONNECTION. The *data* I am referring to consist of, but not limited to, your aircraft's position (X,Y,Z) in the 3D world. This position is use to tell the PC where to render (draw) your aircraft relative to this 3D world. If this position *data* gets interrupted (i.e. *delayed*) your PC does not know where to render your aircraft.. At this point there is code that can take that last know position and velocity and predict where it will be next.. but as time goes by that prediction becomes less valid.

Now that you have a understanding of the *typical* definition of LAG lets define WARPING.

WARPING is when a aircraft moves in unrealistic ways. For example it might move from one spot to the next at the speed of light.. Or it might appear to be flying backwards.. Or it might appear to be flying straight and level, then all of a sudden discontly jump into a climb at a point well above where it was just a second ago.

Now that you have a understanding of the *typical* definition of WARPING I can BEGIN to explain where I am coming from and you MIGHT be able to understand.

LAG CAUSES WARPING!

but

WARPING IS NOT ALWAYS CAUSED BY LAG!

There are a lot of things that can cause WARPING.. When you see someone else WARP on your end (i.e. on your crappy PC) it might be due to LAG or it might be due to your PC.. Your video card might not be able to keep up with the position data (X,Y,Z) being sent to it.. That is your video card might not be able to render it fast enough.. At which point it would start to fall behind.. At some point it would give up and start fresh.. That sequence would cause a WARP like effect. The reverse is also true.. If someone sees your aircraft WARP they might have a crappy PC.. OR It could still be due to your crappy PC. In that if your PC can not render all that is going on (lots of aircraft, lots of detail) it might effect your PC's processor along with your PC's video. At some point that will effect the the calculations of your current position (X,Y,Z). If your position starts to fall behind.. the position *data* your PC is sending to other PC's is crappy! This will cause WARPING on other peoples PC's.

NOTE in all these examples of WARPING they had nothing to do with the LAG!

People are quick to blame WARPING on LAG! As you and WTFA_Badsight have done here!

From the get go I have simply been trying to point out that there is no proof in what you or WTFA_Badsight have presented here to prove it is LAG related. I have said many times in many ways that flying JETS should not effect the rate at which your Internet connection running... i.e. how fast those points (X,Y,Z) are sent out. I'm sorry if you don't understand the basics I mentioned above.. I know it is easy to fall into the blame lag world.. but it is no excuse.. Prior to this lesson you could have claimed ignorance to it, but from here on out you can not! So please keep this lesson in mind the next time you jump on the blame LAG band wagon!

PS if you need more examples of how WARPING can be caused by NON-LAG (INTERNET CONNECTIONS) please feel free to ask.. But at this point I would hope you and WTFA_Badsight could think of a few on your own.

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
06-25-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
wins what ?

the ignorance award ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And they call me the troll! LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
everyone who i have asked who has done any testing at all have all replied the same

without exception<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Note here how WTFA_Badsight assumes that everyone he has talked to is everyone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the Me-163 causes slowdown of FB Gameplay

lowering of FPS & Stutters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe for everyone you talked to, but not everyone

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i never mentioned warp<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No? So when you said

"because the Me163 LAGS out FB it causes slowdown & stutters"

What were you refering to? Note you said LAG! As in the Me163 effects the Internet connection is some manor. Which is what the topic at hand is all about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
but the komet has a issue with it , its bugged as it is

even offline this happens so mr ASH can leave the Internet arguments out & try something else<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Even OFFLINE! Well now if that just doesn't CONFIRM what I have been alluding to.. SOME people have PC's that have issues with the Me163, NOT ALL! In that I can run the Me163 single mission which has Me163s in it.. Many bombers and many fighters and many many parachutes in the air due to the bombers I shot down and it runs perfect! No STUTTERS! No WARPS! No NUTTIN!

With regards to online.. You have to first realize this simple FACT

LAG causes WARPING

but

WARPING is NOT ALL WAYS caused by LAG

Then and only then will your realize that what YOU see may not be what EVERYONE sees.

Because there are many flavors of PCs out there with many flavors of video cards and many flavors of operating systems with many flavors of software running on them.

In SUMMARY

If WARPING is due to LAG everyone will see very similar WARP effects! No mater how good or bad your PC is!

If WARPING is due to something about your PC configuration.. i.e. crappy video card for example.. Then YOU and people with PC's like yours will see similar WARP effects.. BUT NOT EVERYONE!

The PC configuration is so simple that I didn't bother to point it out early on.. I assumed you realized that.. But it is now clear that you don't! Therefore I spent the time provide a lesson for you and yours that defines LAG and WARP in the hopes you will get up to speed and understand the topic at hand.

Because miss diagnosing the BUG and reporting it as LAG may send the BUG hunters down the wrong initial path.. i.e. start looking at NET code.. When the simple fact is it may have nothing to do with it and something specific about the way your PC is configured. Which would be bad for all of us!!

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

PF_Coastie
06-25-2004, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:

IMHO it has more to do with peoples frustration that they can not adapted to the situation to deal with JETS.. That is it is easier to blame something like LAG then one's own SKILLS!

ASH HOUSEWARES
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Firstly, Thank you for the very thorough explanation of where you were coming from. I understand your point now. By the way, I understand perfectly the differences between lag and warp. However, Lag is used very generically in these forums because 95% of the people here are not network technicians and when someone says lag I can assume they mean simply some sort of strange inflight anomoly.

If it wasn't for the above statement you posted in your first reply, I would have never questioned your answer. You were basically saying that there was NO problem with the jets and that people were just making up excuses because they got stomped.

That just is not true because there IS a problem with the 163 whether it be LAG and/or WARPING.

PF_Coastie

Coasties Place (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/)

CATALYST 4.2 OGL (http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/atioglxx.zip)

Coasties FB and ATI settings (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/IL2setup.html)
http://home.earthlink.net/~bmcoastie/images/FS_SIG.jpg
Click here to find out more about FIGHTER SWEEPS 2 (http://663blacktigers.net/FS2index.html)


OFFICIAL ATI BETA TESTER

WUAF_Badsight
06-25-2004, 08:06 PM
ok ASH you are good at stating the obvious & you have a problem with not being told you are right

in this case you are 100% wrong

the difference between Lag & Warp & Stutters is obvious to anyone with any gaming experience

the Me-163 causes all 3

the smoke it produces is made up of multiple particles & all this info is a major cause of internet induced Warping & Lag that the Komet makes

also offline this is bad news for FPS

multiple Komets are when this effect is most noticeable

as for this comment


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
Note here how WTFA_Badsight assumes that everyone he has talked to is everyone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

do you have a problem with understanding english ?


notice that it was people who i had asked & how i stated they all replied the same

smartalec replies are one thing but at least let them be about something i actually stated

& if your eyesight is poor its actually W U A F

not WTFA

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ASH at S-MART
06-26-2004, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Firstly, Thank you for the very thorough explanation of where you were coming from. I understand your point now. By the way, I understand perfectly the differences between lag and warp.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No Problem!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
However, Lag is used very generically in these forums because 95% of the people here are not network technicians and when someone says lag I can assume they mean simply some sort of strange inflight anomoly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly! And when I noticed that in Mitlov47's inital post I was quick to point out the difference.. A post alot of the people here seemed to miss.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
If it wasn't for the above statement you posted in your first reply, I would have never questioned your answer. You were basically saying that there was NO problem with the jets and that people were just making up excuses because they got stomped.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And I still do belive that.. Note that initial reply was early on.. When the topic was still about JETS and not specially about the Me163. From my definitions of the difference between LAG and WARPING it should be clear now that with TRUE LAG EVERYONE will see so sort of WARPING.. Whereas WARPING due to something else (video card, etc) will only effect YOU.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
That just is not true because there IS a problem with the 163 whether it be LAG and/or WARPING.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh it is still true for some I'm sure.. But there are also some that disable JETS because their PC are more susceptible to what ever it is the Me163 does differently.. What that something is.. I don't know.. I only know that it does not effect me like it effects others.. Therefore I doubt it has anything to do with TRUE LAG! Because if it was, it would effect everyone to nearly the same degree.

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
06-26-2004, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ok ASH you are good at stating the obvious & you have a problem with not being told you are right

in this case you are 100% wrong

the difference between Lag & Warp & Stutters is obvious to anyone with any gaming experience

the Me-163 causes all 3

the smoke it produces is made up of multiple particles & all this info is a major cause of internet induced Warping & Lag that the Komet makes

also offline this is bad news for FPS

multiple Komets are when this effect is most noticeable

as for this comment


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
Note here how WTFA_Badsight assumes that everyone he has talked to is everyone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

do you have a problem with understanding english ?


notice that it was people who i had asked & how i stated they all replied the same

smartalec replies are one thing but at least let them be about something i actually stated

& if your eyesight is poor its actually W U A F

not WTFA
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>YAWN... Hey WTFA.. I really don't care what you belive.. You can try and re-spin your statements all you want to try and justify your reasoning.. The fact is that everyone you talked to is not everyone.. The fact is NOT everyone has the same problems you do.. The fact that NOT everyone sees the same thing means it most likely not due to TRUE LAG. I don't know what it is about your PC and EVERYONE you talked to PC that makes it more sensitive to what it is the Me163 does.. But I'm sure that Oleg will figure it out. The one thing I am sure about it JETS don't cause LAG! Now I think I will run along a fly some more OFFLINE Me163 missions with many B17s in the air along with many P51 escorts along with 4+ Me163 bussing around along with many Many MANY parachutes floating in the air with NOT STUTTER, NO WARPING, NO NUTTIN! Then go online and do it too!

PS I am about to upgrade my PC.. Would you be interested in buying my old one? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
06-26-2004, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:

The one thing I am sure about it JETS don't cause LAG! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats only because you are ignorant

& yes its ture , everyone that I talked too isnt everyone who plays FB

but then again neither did i claim that to be the case, your just trying to be argumentative about it

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ASH at S-MART
06-26-2004, 07:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
thats only because you are ignorant

& yes its ture , everyone that _I_ talked too isnt everyone who plays FB

but then again neither did i claim that to be the case, your just trying to be argumentative about it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh.. Im sorry Badsight.. were you still under the impression that I care what you think? Just to be crystal.. for future reference.. I neither care about what you belive, nor what you think of me. Got it? Goooooooood! Enjoy!

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

Hawgdog
06-26-2004, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spectre-63:
ahhh...the dreaded "'cuz I said so" defense! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sad but true.. Sad but true.. There is no reasoning with people like that.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like what? ME? Who started the thread, eh?

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/sharkdog.gif
When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

ASH at S-MART
06-26-2004, 11:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawgdog:
Like what? ME? Who started the thread, eh?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>http://www.tellytunes.com/wallpapers/dstrokes_800.jpg

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

Hawgdog
06-27-2004, 05:16 AM
Hey ashhat...do you read what you post? Just askin....

Originally posted by Spectre-63:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i got a perfectly fine GPU & Internet connection

i know what warp is & how warp is different to slowdown & Lag

the Me-163 causes slowdown of FPS & Stutters in FB as it is at the moment
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what quantifiable evidence do you have of this?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hawgdog:
_ah..........'cause....._
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spectre-63:
ahhh...the dreaded "'cuz I said so" defense!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ASH_SMART
Sad but true.. Sad but true.. There is no reasoning with people like that.. They have their minds made up.. Or should I say thier BIAS set in stone?

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/sharkdog.gif
When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

ASH at S-MART
06-27-2004, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawgdog:
Hey ashhat...do you read what you post?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why yes... But the bigger Q here do you comprehend what you read? Just askin.... I doubt it.. in that I was not refering to you in that statement

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

Dawg-of-death
06-27-2004, 11:13 AM
Lag ...lots of ...Lag http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawgdog:
Hey ashhat...do you read what you post?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why yes... But the bigger Q here do you comprehend what you read? Just askin.... I doubt it.. in that I was not refering to you in that statement

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

ASH at S-MART
06-27-2004, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dawg-of-death:
Lag ...lots of ...Lag http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! But seriously.. I just got done flying a Me163 online.. I was flying side by side in formation with a guy in a prop.. No JITTERS.. No STUTTERS.. No WARPING.. SMOOOOOOOOTH! And on that server my ping is ****! In the 180ms range! On that note.. one of the WTFA CO's PMed me on HL.. Guess he and Badsight have been talking.. Because he went into great length about all the TESTING he has done on the Me163.. He NOTED something.. He said the Me163 only causes LAG while the engine is on.. i.e. smoke coming out the back.

The FACT that I and others don't see this effect.. YET SOME DO indicates it is an ISSUE with the persons PC.

I told him that what he described does not PROVE the Me163 effects the internect connection data rates or consistency (i.e. true LAG) but does IMPLY that the WARPING is video related.. At which point I told him to try setting his video settings to the lowest details and try again.

If the problem gets better (less warping) or goes away all together then that would be a very good indicator that it is video card related and not LAG related.

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
06-27-2004, 11:55 PM
that lag happens with the Komet isnt because its just spawns

its when it runs

the smoke is made up of multiple particles

when there is 2 or more Komets flying is when the warping & lag is most apparent

the lag is caused by all the extra infomation the Komet makes by

if it is video or CPU whos to say , but all of the people i have talked too that have done any testing at all , have all said the same thing

& if they are getting a smooth game till the Komet shows up & then are getting game slowdown & stutters & warp , what are you saying is to blame for the ASH


BTW a 180 ping is a low ping for FB online

ping has very little to do with warp or lag in FB online

you can have smooth games with a 800 ping

& you can be in servers with a sub 200 ping & have a horrid game

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 12:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
that lag happens with the Komet isnt because its just spawns<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Never said it was

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
its when it runs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The WARP seems to be tied into the smoke.. At least that is what your CO was reporting.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the smoke is made up of multiple particles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Define particles.. are you saying the XYZ data of the smoke is being transmitted over the server? I find that hard to belive, note.. not saying it isn't.. just hard to belive. In that the PC receiving the XYZ data of the Me163 is all ready doing some vector predictions, therefore it would be easy for it to render the smoke trail from previous XYZ data of the Me163. Again, I know how you like to go off on a tangent.. So just to be crystal here this is MHO.. In that I have not seen the code.. But I have written code to track targets.. and sense the smoke would simply be rendered where the Me163 *was* a second ago.. Then simply use the old Me163 XYZ data points.. Put another way, DON'T send it's current XYZ point along with a data point for the smoke in that it would simply be an old data point. Thus making the amount of data sent equal to a non jet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
when there is 2 or more Komets flying is when the warping & lag is most apparent<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is what you keep telling me.. And it sounds like there are others that see that too.. But not everyone. Therefore it is most likely not due to TRUE LAG! i.e. the data rate and consistency of your Internet connection has not changed due to the Me163 flying. Now if your vid card can not render the smoke very well.. Then it would start to fall behind... At some point even tie up the CPU itself.. Which would interfere with everything.. Which could cause that SLOW DOWN EFFECT you mentioned.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the lag is caused by all the extra information the Komet makes by<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As I pointed out above.. There is NO NEED for extra information. It has all ready been received in previous transmission. That is to say the current XYZ would be used for the current positions to render the Me163 itself.. But the XYZ data point received a second earlier could be used for the current positions to render the smoke.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
if it is video or CPU whos to say,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>From what you have described it sounds like a video problem.. But it could also be sound.. CPU.. A lot of things could cause it really.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
but all of the people i have talked too that have done any testing at all , have all said the same thing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>where everyone you have talked to is not everyone... Which is actually a lie, in that on several locations I have told you I don't see the same problem you do.. So either you don't consider this talking.. Or consider me a nobody! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
& if they are getting a smooth game till the Komet shows up & then are getting game slowdown & stutters & warp , what are you saying is to blame for the ASH<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My guess.. video card problems.. God knows there are many flavors of cards and drivers out there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
BTW a 180 ping is a low ping for FB online<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Note I never said it wasn't.. I simply said it was a crappy one for me in that with my cable connection I typical get connects below 100

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ping has very little to do with warp or lag in FB online<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Never said it did.. A consistent ping is more important than anything.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
you can have smooth games with a 800 ping<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. but that is pushing it.. stick sturing Fw190s can take adv of that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
& you can be in servers with a sub 200 ping & have a horrid game<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True That!

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
06-28-2004, 12:49 AM
do you not understand english

when i say everyone i have talked to , it means all the people i have talked too

not that i have asked everyone who plays FB about the Komet

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

darah1875
06-28-2004, 02:22 AM
Some smart ash on this thread should definitely get a life (and read crazyivan's post).

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 08:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
do you not understand english

when i say everyone i have talked to , it means all the people i have talked too

not that i have asked everyone who plays FB about the Komet
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I only point it out to show that you are in error or a liar in that you have talked to me, therefore I am part of everyone you have talked to, yet you still claim that everyone reports the same problems you have... Talk about not understanding!

But tell me.. what are you really upset about? It can not be that I pointed out that you lied.. Ill bet you are upset in that I showed you how wrong you were about... how did you say it?

the lag is caused by all the extra information the Komet makes

Be honest.. that is why your really upset.. In that it pretty much blows your whole theory out of the water! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 08:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darah1875:
Some smart ash on this thread should definitely get a life (and read crazyivan's post).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just so you know, the topic currently at hand is not *IF* there is a problem, just the *CAUSE* of it.

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
06-28-2004, 10:30 PM
i told you that in the 2nd page , resorting to being a smart @ss , you try to twist things

you repeated it & it was still false the 2nd time

because you have yet to show me here in this thread how you tested & proved the Komet is perfectly fine

all you have done is post how your fine so everyone else has the problem

that is no test , serious or not

that the smoke makes the lagging is not for certian , but if it was just video then why would everyone get affected & not just the client

the thing is that it affects online gameplay

when they are used online you get LAG

& you get game slowdown

& you get warping

using the Komet online affects how your computer responds to the host & visa versa

just by explaining like a new to online gaming person what lag & warping is doesnt make a "proved" case

all it does Tagert is show that you also know the basics like everyone else who has any clues at all

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
06-28-2004, 10:31 PM
by the way , how was it you got banned the first time ?

for arguing ?

YAWN !

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
by the way , how was it you got banned the first time ?

for arguing ?

YAWN !
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope not for arguing

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 10:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i told you that in the 2nd page, resorting to being a smart @ss, you try to twist things

you repeated it & it was still false the 2nd time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Twist things? Care to provide an example? Or is this just another one of your weak attempts to change the subject?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
because you have yet to show me here in this thread how you tested & proved the Komet is perfectly fine<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>News flash for you.. I have shown you as much as you have shown me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
all you have done is post how your fine so everyone else has the problem<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not the only one NOT having a problem.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
that is no test , serious or not<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As good as you and yours.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
that the smoke makes the lagging is not for certian,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. but you and your CO think it is.. I simply provided examples of how I think it could cause the problem you are seeing. I also in many reply many times it could be due to a lot of other things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
but if it was just video then why would everyone get affected & not just the client<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There you go again.. I guess Ill have to repeat it again.. Everyone you talked to is not everyone! The fact that I have told you I don't have the problem should indicate to you that is the case.. Yet you make the same mistake over and over.. And then get made at me when I re-post it for you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the thing is that it affects online gameplay<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So are you now taking back what you said about how it affects offline play too?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
when they are used online you get LAG<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You get WARPING not LAG

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
& you get game slowdown

& you get warping<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Some do, not Everyone

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
using the Komet online affects how your computer responds to the host & visa versa<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree, for some it does, but not everyone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
just by explaining like a new to online gaming person what lag & warping is doesn't make a "proved" case <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Note I didn't just explained (define) it.. I went on and provide examples using the definitions. The FACT that NOT EVERYONE sees the same thing means it is most likely not due to TRUE LAG!! TRUE LAG would upset the rate and or frequency that the Internet connection runs at. That is not the case here in that only SOME people see the effect! Which to me indicates there is something about those peoples PC that makes them more sensitive to the Me163 *problem*. The smoke is a good posablity, in that some peoples video cards might not be able to render it well enough to keep up.. Where some peoples video cards can render it well enough to keep up.. Therefore SOME see it SOME don't.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
all it does Tagert is show that you also know the basics like everyone else who has any clues at all<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No all it shows is that you are very upset that I explained away your ONE and ONLY good REASON.. You were actually under the impression that the Me163 required... How did you say it? ALL THAT EXTRA INFORMATION to tell the client where to render the smoke... Which you were dead wrong about and are now floundering around like a fish out of water trying to come up with another line of reasoning.

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
06-28-2004, 11:04 PM
no ASH you are trying to say that your one of the people i have talked too that have done a serious test on this

not true

you have posted zero info on this "test"

all of the people that i have talked too that have tested this (that is on the 2nd page , which you twisted to try and mean that i meant everyone who plays FB) have all confirmed WUAFs own testing

some WUAF have 3 gig processors on late MBs with good RAM & Video cards

that lack of hardware isnt among us

the very real lag & warp gameplay the Komet provides is

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 11:05 PM
Fogot to ask you something... Two questions about Human Nature.

TRUE or FALSE.. People tend to complain about things when they dont work as expected.

TRUE or FALSE.. People tend to NOT complain about things when they work as expected.

If you ansewered TRUE to both then you would realise that there could be alot of people out there like me who are NOT having problems. On several ocatioins here you have shown your dogma where you think that everyone you talked to is eveyone.. People with the same problems tend to seak others out.. But it is a mistake for them to belive that they are the norm.. Dont feel bad though.. It is a common mistake.. Because we are human! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
06-28-2004, 11:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
no ASH you are trying to say that your one of the people i have talked too that have done a serious test on this

not true<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry but you are in error.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
you have posted zero info on this "test"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What part of your post do you consider non-zero info on your "test"?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
all of the people that i have talked too that have tested this (that is on the 2nd page , which you twisted to try and mean that i meant everyone who plays FB) have all confirmed WUAFs own testing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The only thing you did that I did not do is state that you replaced the Me262 with the Me163. BFD!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
some WUAF have 3 gig processors on late MBs with good RAM & Video cards

that lack of hardware isnt among us<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You do realise that something as simple as a video driver can make or break a good machine... From your post, my guess would be that you dont realise that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the very real lag & warp gameplay the Komet provides is<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not LAG.. WARP from some, not all.

By the way.. I notice you have no comment on your ALL THAT EXTRA INFORMATION comment.. Can I expect you will be retracting that statment too?

ASH HOUSEWARES
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg