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DONB3397
03-11-2004, 04:51 PM
Weather was a major factor on both the Eastern and Western fronts during WWII. I recall reading that early in the war, there were nearly as many weather-related accidents and fatalities as there were air combat casualties.

FB has clouds, rain and even snow. But, other than turbulence at selected altitudes, no (directional) wind. No cross winds to complicate landings, no headwinds to throw off navigation...no wind vectors.

Have I missed something on the "conditions" menu or the FMB?

DONB3397
03-11-2004, 04:51 PM
Weather was a major factor on both the Eastern and Western fronts during WWII. I recall reading that early in the war, there were nearly as many weather-related accidents and fatalities as there were air combat casualties.

FB has clouds, rain and even snow. But, other than turbulence at selected altitudes, no (directional) wind. No cross winds to complicate landings, no headwinds to throw off navigation...no wind vectors.

Have I missed something on the "conditions" menu or the FMB?

wickedpenguin
03-12-2004, 12:25 AM
BUMP

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. You don't get a much bigger factor than wind in aviation.

I've been playing a lot of MS FS2004 and practicing a lot of crosswind landings in Cessna 152's and other GA aircraft. When I play FB, I actually miss that particular challenge.

I mean, back then they didn't really have ATIS and all those other kind of weather information services (maybe the airbase controller provided it - dunno, never looked into this before).

All you would really need as far as a visualization is a windsock at each end of the runway. You just make a pass in the pattern, scout what direction the wind is coming from, and there you go.

With a sim as realistic as this, it'd be criminal to not have wind as a factor.

lindyman
03-12-2004, 01:45 AM
One argument against a windsock is that it would probably have to be very much oversize if you are to have any use for it.

However... we have some limited kind of ground control, somewhat similar to an AFIS. Just like an AFIS, they could call out wind speed/direction and recommended runway.
_
/Bjorn.

ELEM
03-12-2004, 02:50 AM
I've had some very bad winds in some missions and the cross wind landings have been very difficult. All those weather conditions you mention are modeled,it's probably just the frequency they occur is low.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

Tully__
03-12-2004, 03:43 AM
Wind effects are only apparent on take off and landing. Turbulence and other weather effects can make shooting, finding targets and navigation difficult but that's about the extent of weather in IL2/FB.

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Fender74
03-12-2004, 03:48 AM
you don't want to make any more difficult do you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
i have ard enough time as it is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rajvosa
03-12-2004, 03:51 AM
I wish they could model the seasonal changes, like in good old Red Baron 3D (anyone know how to make it run on ATi hardware? I've stopped using 3dfx Voodoo ages ago?). Today spring-summer-autumn is green and winter is white, no transition like deep green sprin-summer, light green for summer and brownish for autumns...

Regards,

Jasko

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Dmitri9mm
03-12-2004, 03:59 AM
According to Antoine de Saint-Exupéry the world-famous writer, aviation-pioneer and WWII pilot, the wind is not only a factor to take into account when flying an aeroplane, it is the sole media in witch the pilot is performing his art. He has written a lot of books on aviation between 1926 (when he graduated as a pilot) and 1944 (when he and his P-38 went missing in the mediteranian sea)
Anyone who have read his books will realize that a flight sim only becomes realistic once the battle against the elements is in your mind just as much as the battle against the enemy!

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1901-1944)
Best books: Terre des hommes (I don't know the title in english), A meaning of life, the little prince, the citadel. Read them now.

lindyman
03-12-2004, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELEM:
I've had some very bad winds in some missions and the cross wind landings have been very difficult. All those weather conditions you mention are modeled,it's probably just the frequency they occur is low.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, wind is modeled, but only when the weather is really bad, and then very strong.

In the real world, wind is almost always present. It mostly a factor in landing, but also when navigating and in this game, when strafing ground objects.
_
/Bjorn.

Aaron_GT
03-12-2004, 06:19 AM
More weather would be nice. Even more than
more weather, dynamically changing weather.

For BoB it would be nice to see the ability
to set a starting condition for the weather
and only a general slider the way the weather
is going to change and at what rate.

In addition, for scenarios, the ability in
the mission builder to script exact weather
changes would be nice.

Lastly, the ability to connect to weather
servers so you can fly in weather conditions
for the current time in the area you are flying
would be nice, just to go sightseeing.

With regard to the windsock - a 'windsock
view' is all you'd need mapped to one of
the view keys or something.

Aaron_GT
03-12-2004, 06:21 AM
Actually even simpler than a windsock view
would be just a tab-ground control command
to ask for the wind speed and direction
(either compass, or relative to your
take off direction).

In addition commands to ask ground control
the likely weather conditions at a map
location would be nice (perhaps a right click
menu on the map to bring up a range of options
such as ask about enemy activity in that
area if known - i.e. a very simple
implemtnation of a form of radar,
weather and so on)

JG27_Dacripler
03-12-2004, 06:31 AM
Yes, you are control of the weather as you can enable a variety of conditions according to the seasonal maps in your directory. Remember if you are making a Pacific or Online Winter. You are capable of selecting the time and weather to the map given but are not capable of changing Winter to Summer or vice-versa. While hosting you are capable of changing the time via a simple comand &gt;tod (military time) with out the "( )"
Lots of really good maps to be found by looking at the many fansites or squads that produce the servers.

IAFS_Painter
03-12-2004, 06:33 AM
Yup well modeled weather conditions would be nice.

While they are at it, it would be good to have sun rise modelled correctly (dawn arround 6am in mid-winter in Eindhoven is not realistic).

Weather conditions do vary with time of day ... in my area (southern UK) a nice summer's day can start bright and clear, ending with lots of cloud ... maybe just cumulus, and maybe a thunder storm.

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lindyman
03-12-2004, 06:34 AM
I like the idea of ground control acting like an AFIS, with an additional "Tab" cmd. When I approach an airfield, I could use "Tab" "GroundCtl" "Req weather/traffic info" and ground control might respond with "Wind 240 degrees 14 knots (or mph or km/h or m/s, or whatever) runway (or strip) 27 in use."

To relief us from selecting different frequencies or airfields in the Tab cmd, it would be perfectly OK for only the nearest airfield to respond.
_
/Bjorn.

wickedpenguin
03-12-2004, 08:02 AM
Well, the reason I brought up the windsock is that it reduces the need for the more complicated ATC method. If you have to radio in (which is obviously more realistic) Oleg would have to create both the programming for the ATC as well as the voice readback and speech syncrhonization for the weather conditions.

As far as the windsock's size, there's no need to make it bigger than it is in real life. The ones in FS2004 are pretty much to scale and they are easy to see once you are within range of the airport.

FS2004 has a very powerful weather generator that can create multiple levels of clouds, wind, and precipitation - either automatically or manually. It can also download current conditions from Jeppesen every 15 minutes, giving you a real-world flying experience. As you fly from one destination to another, the weather gradually changes. It's actually one of my favorite things about flying that sim. You start out in VFR conditions and then wind up in some serious IFR soup halfway through, making it pretty challenging.

One time, we had a hurricane passing nearby (I live in Miami, FL). I jumped in a Learjet and punched in the coordinates - sure enough, it was 80 mph winds, rain, and general unpleasantness. I don't remember if it modelled the eye, though...

DONB3397
03-12-2004, 08:26 AM
I know weather effects, especially a weather 'generation' system that simulates changing conditions and clouds, can use up graphics capacity. The weather-making efforts as M$ may be the reason CFS3 is almost unflyable at reasonable resolution.

But wind, it seems to me, could be modeled without stealing too many frames. The ideas posted here for reading that wind -- sock, controlled -- would make it visible to a pilot before he found himself crabbing on a crosswind approach. It could make navigation and rendezvous with bombers more challenging as well...let alone the problems of aiming in turbulent air.

FB is a great sim without it, but this feature might increase the gap over others. Perhaps BoB will include it. It's hard to imagine the summer of 1940 in England without the impact of bad weather.

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