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Kamitto
12-23-2017, 06:23 PM
There is such a wide range of options in games that allow you to create a character. From really weak palette-swapping, to the super-detailed approach of Bioware, editing cheekbone height and jowl. Is there such a thing too deep customization? I say no.

The game with the best customization I've played is Saints Row 3. I haven't played 4, so maybe it's even better? And Dragon Age series might've been better on faces.

I think there should be two ways to customize certain features - by generic pre-made "types", and a more "advanced" or granular customization for people who really wanna take the time. You could get granular on eyes or nose or face shape, but maybe not so much with body type, horns and tails, which would cycle through a few options.

Anyway, what are some things you really want to be able to customize?

My requests:


Species - Choice of every kind of "sapien" that otherwise appears in the game.


Race or Ethnicity (Humans only) - Racial dynamics/politics would probably be different in the 24th century, but perhaps a character's origin (or lineage if born in System 3) would affects how other characters interact with them?


Gender - This would only affect how other characters in the world speak to or about you, and in some cases how they interact with you. Regarding presentation, it would be great if the game did not restrict other physical features like body type, facial features, hair/fur, etc based on sex. Note here that sex (what kinda genitals) is not the same as gender (presentation/identity).


Height, Body Type, and Musculature - again, not limited by sex


Skin, Hair, and Fur - colors, complexions, textures from the full gamut of human/animal variation. Like, seriously, if I make a black human woman, can I have more hair options than the fro and cornrows? Can I have an albino rhino hybrid, or a grayish-black elephant?


Face - Cheeks, Brow, Nose/Proboscis, Eyes, Teeth, Horns, etc.


Species-Specific Miscellany - tails, horns, trunks, scales, etc. (size, quantity, color, as applicable)


Injury/Deformity - A few options to cycle through? Missing eye, broken horn, torn ear...


Gait - Just a few options per species?


Voice - A few options (maybe 6?), independent of gender, and with some subtle species-based modifiers on the back end, like more guttural overlay for tiger-hybrids, or brassy for elephants. This could just be a toggle, on or off.


Age - This could a slider, rather than a number, and alter the character's features based on species (wrinkles, graying, posture, etc.)



As much as I'd like to see disabilities represented, I imagine it would be difficult from a gameplay design perspective, to account for how characters of different physical disabilities would navigate the world so as to follow a pre-established narrative. Unless in certain cases, the player has to transfer control from their disabled character to Knox or Shani for certain missions. OR, in this future world, there's a transhumanist solution for every disability by now? Nanotech, prosthetics and the like?

AlexandaBleak
12-23-2017, 07:18 PM
You've hit pretty much everything I think I would want for a character creator, especially with not restricting any options based on Gender.

I hadn't thought about Gait before and that one could be expanded out from just their walk to everything about how the player character acts and moves, like their hand movements and gestures and stuff like that, this might be difficult from an animation stand point but it'd be cool to have some options when it comes to how your character moves.

With voice options the only thing I would add to your suggestion would be say some pitch sliders so you can customise each voice somewhat

As for disability, or at least physical disability in this case, I think that allowing the player to make a physically disabled character whose disability Is Not overruled by some sci-fi technology would be a powerful and important move, because I know that many physically disabled people feel that sci-fi prosthetics are not good disability representation as it effectively erases the fact that the character has a disability at all, and I know a fair amount of physically disabled people have said that even if they could have high tech prosthetics that they wouldn't want to use those, so letting players create a disabled character who doesn't use prosthetics would be really cool, if technically challenging.

The only other thing I could thing to add would be clothing, I know there will be clothing options in the game to choose from, but I often find the options that are given in games to be limiting, I think that clothing customisation could be expanded by letting players chose custom colours and patterns for their outfits as well as like custom text and decals, it might also be possible to do some shape customisation, say you have a leather jacket you could choose from a number materials, length options, toggling sleeves on or off, different types of collars and lapels, kind of similar to how in the ships video the dev team released there were a lot of different parts you could switch out from in the same type of ship.

ElPrimordial
12-23-2017, 07:24 PM
OR, in this future world, there's a transhumanist solution for every disability by now? Nanotech, prosthetics and the like?

I imagine that's only for who can afford them. Poor humans & hybrids who live in the slums will remain crippled... unless the become pirates and start making money.
Perhaps Dakini lost her arm in an accident or the law cute her limb after she stole something when she was younger or who knows under which circumstances.

Kamitto
12-23-2017, 11:37 PM
With voice options the only thing I would add to your suggestion would be say some pitch sliders so you can customise each voice somewhat

YES, good idea.



I know that many physically disabled people feel that sci-fi prosthetics are not good disability representation as it effectively erases the fact that the character has a disability at all

Yeah, I can see that. From a gameplay perspective it'd have to be set up so that every problem in the game has multiple solutions, some of which aren't physical. Like I'm imagining the scenario from the trailer, with Knox and the chocolate idol, and how a person with a severe physical disability would get out of that situation. Really, they'd have to be able to broker that deal altogether differently, so that they're not in front of Pig dude at all.



I often find the options that are given in games to be limiting, I think that clothing customisation could be expanded by letting players chose custom colours and patterns for their outfits as well as like custom text and decals, it might also be possible to do some shape customisation, say you have a leather jacket you could choose from a number materials, length options, toggling sleeves on or off, different types of collars and lapels

All of this, yes. Again I think Saint's Row did this the best, but you were still limited to finite presets. Customizing outfits would be great.


I imagine that's only for who can afford them.

Yep. That makes me wonder how the economy of the world will work. Odd jobs for credits, and trading pearls like BGE, or maybe a more robust trading system based on some algorithmically changing supply and demand, like Suikoden games? Perhaps worthy of another thread...

KIERROK
12-25-2017, 11:41 PM
I pretty much agree with everything here, though you should add Fallout 4 as a creation idea too. It had a pretty good face creation, it also effected your family. Your husband and wife's look affected how their child looked.

browntoya
12-29-2017, 10:46 PM
Agree

UbiBorghal
01-02-2018, 06:38 PM
Moved this thread to the Space Monkey Program subforum per the OP request. Thank you for your discussion, guys!

KIERROK
01-02-2018, 08:27 PM
I have a few hybrids I want to play as, one being a shark. I'd love to be able to make him look like Verg, who's a shark hybrid from an anime
https://flyqueen.deviantart.com/art/Verg-584189925
http://astrum-kurios.tumblr.com/post/73803143904/bluesubmarineno6-%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B0-verg-%E9%9D%92%E3%81%AE6%E5%8F%B7-blue
The ears aren't necessary, though it would be nice.

atubaboun
02-02-2018, 10:40 PM
About what Kamitoo said, some features actualy can't be separated from sex, but it varies from a species to another.

In Homo sapiens, males are taller, have sharper canine and more body hair.
Whereas in Hyenas, the females are bigger and more aggressive.
in other species it will be color, size, behaviour etc...

This is called sexual dimorphism and is exhibited in a lot of species. Is some cases like a lot of mammals its the product of secondary sexual characters (basically action of the hormones produced by the primary sexual charachters: the reproductive systems).

But the base of sexual dimorphism is the genome of the individual, so there's no telling how it will affect hybrids tho, and since we'll be in the 24th century species might have evolved a bit since then too.

Otherwise you list of things to have in charachter creation is pretty much spot on :)
But will clothes really be choosed from the start ? I feel like it would be better to be able to change during the game :/

(sorry for the unclear post, i don't know how to make multiple quotes :/ )

DevilmanSinner
02-07-2018, 07:24 AM
Species - Choice of every kind of "sapien" that otherwise appears in the game.

I'm curious about the options for hybrids. Will it be mostly limited to mammals? To be compatible with human DNA? I heard crocodiles will make an appearance, yeah? I would love cephalopods, other aquatics/amphibians, and maybe (flightless) birds to be available.



Gender - This would only affect how other characters in the world speak to or about you, and in some cases how they interact with you. Regarding presentation, it would be great if the game did not restrict other physical features like body type, facial features, hair/fur, etc based on sex. Note here that sex (what kinda genitals) is not the same as gender (presentation/identity).

Height, Body Type, and Musculature - again, not limited by sex

I think a cool way to do this would be that maleness and femaleness determine only, basically three things: 1 presence/absence of mammary tissue 2 muscle mass and definition and 3 certain sexual proclivities within the story. I love the idea that secondary characteristics like facial hair don't get affected. But everything else, including how your character actually identifies should, shouldn't be restricted.


Skin, Hair, and Fur - colors, complexions, textures from the full gamut of human/animal variation. Like, seriously, if I make a black human woman, can I have more hair options than the fro and cornrows? Can I have an albino rhino hybrid, or a grayish-black elephant?

Please for the love of all the gods, get the hair textures correct! Shani's hair texture looks amazing! Keep it up! Please give me locs that look, move and are textured like Black people's hair when it is locked.


Injury/Deformity - A few options to cycle through? Missing eye, broken horn, torn ear...

Gait - Just a few options per species?

I would love if some physical affectations inform the gait. Have a once broken back? Ankle or knee injury? Prosthetic leg? Have a limp.

KIERROK
02-07-2018, 08:15 AM
I'm curious about the options for hybrids. Will it be mostly limited to mammals? To be compatible with human DNA? I heard crocodiles will make an appearance, yeah? I would love cephalopods, other aquatics/amphibians, and maybe (flightless) birds to be available.



I think a cool way to do this would be that maleness and femaleness determine only, basically three things: 1 presence/absence of mammary tissue 2 muscle mass and definition and 3 certain sexual proclivities within the story. I love the idea that secondary characteristics like facial hair don't get affected. But everything else, including how your character actually identifies should, shouldn't be restricted.



Please for the love of all the gods, get the hair textures correct! Shani's hair texture looks amazing! Keep it up! Please give me locs that look, move and are textured like Black people's hair when it is locked.



I would love if some physical affectations inform the gait. Have a once broken back? Ankle or knee injury? Prosthetic leg? Have a limp.

At 35.29 it shows hybrids


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzAyINDwfE&t=2133s

Kamitto
05-11-2018, 12:37 AM
About what Kamitoo said, some features actualy can't be separated from sex, but it varies from a species to another.
In Homo sapiens, males are taller, have sharper canine and more body hair.


Eh…that's not actually true for humans.

https://img00.deviantart.net/58eb/i/2015/199/1/a/amazon_woman_and_tiny_guy_by_lowerrider-d91vv7a.jpg

Your argument also completely ignores the existence of transfolk. Sexual dimorphism is more evident in other species than humans. I think for the purposes of this game, the only reason to have it at all is to give the player more options. But I don't think these kinds of options should be based on sex. Similarly…



I think a cool way to do this would be that maleness and femaleness determine only, basically three things: 1 presence/absence of mammary tissue 2 muscle mass and definition and 3 certain sexual proclivities within the story.

Sex doesn't always determine muscle mass. Sex shouldn't have anything to do with "sexual proclivities", either.



Please for the love of all the gods, get the hair textures correct! Shani's hair texture looks amazing! Keep it up! Please give me locs that look, move and are textured like Black people's hair when it is locked.

YES. I'm saying! PLEASE, please get this right.

Legion-495
05-11-2018, 01:36 AM
Sex doesn't always determine muscle mass. Sex shouldn't have anything to do with "sexual proclivities", either.

I just wanted to slip that in. I agree.
From a game perspective I think bodyshape still needs to be set with a male or female body selection.
That is all.

DevilmanSinner
05-11-2018, 05:51 AM
Your argument also completely ignores the existence of transfolk. Sexual dimorphism is more evident in other species than humans. I think for the purposes of this game, the only reason to have it at all is to give the player more options. But I don't think these kinds of options should be based on sex. Similarly…
Sex doesn't always determine muscle mass. Sex shouldn't have anything to do with "sexual proclivities", either.

I was speaking super biologically. Sex as in the presence of XX-XY genes/testosterone/estrogen which does tend to inform the development of muscle mass. And as for sexual proclivities, I'm speaking from a narrative gameplay perspective. For example, your character presents as a woman and when presented with a romantic (sexual) option, your interest discovers your character is trans and they're a bigot, or they have a fetish, or they're really supportive and like you anyway. NOW that is what I meant when I wrote that, but I'm glad you brought it up because I'd been thinking about that post a lot since I wrote it and even I don't think the last suggestion is expressed well; the second suggestion ignores the fact that genetic manipulation for corporate specifications is a thing in this universe; and the first suggestion ignores breast implants (which would have to be a gameplay option that would have to be available? or something? eh).


So to sum up, at the time I wrote those original suggestions, I didn't think them through in how I expressed them. I am trans myself, so I really am invested in seeing this team get "trans-ness" right, which is hard since their projecting future scientific processes that includes transgenetic hybrids. So yeah, talking about biological sex and gender fluidity in this context is weird but interesting AF and I'm here for it.
Also..."Transgenetic." I like that term ^-^

WiwarK9
05-11-2018, 10:01 AM
So you just don't want limitation...
I think they already talked about it and yes you can make your trans????? character.
It would be great if there could be a lor of preset so we don't have pass hours messing with the settings to find something great.

Kamitto
05-12-2018, 12:10 AM
Also..."Transgenetic." I like that term ^-^

Ah, now I understand better. Well, except for this term! What would this mean? Biologically you're born a pig hybrid, but deep down you know you're really a shark hybrid??

I think this might get a little tricky, because while gender and sex are so intimately intertwined, race and ethnicity have nothing to do with biology. So, what essence of "sharkness" would this hypothetical pig hybrid feel themselves tapping into? What comes to mind is Rachel Dolezal, and her claim of being "transracial" (which is already a term, usually in the context of cross-cultural adoption, so she can't claim it anyway). The whole reason that's not a thing is because she can't, either biologically or experientially claim blackness. In the same way, how could a pig hybrid claim "sharkness"? What about their experience would they feel is informed by the shark experience?

But maybe it's purely biology we're talking about, and I can't even imagine what sort of cellular awareness one would have to have in order to identify — seriously, not as some weird fetishy conceit — as another species.


So you just don't want limitation...
I think they already talked about it and yes you can make your trans????? character.
It would be great if there could be a lor of preset so we don't have pass hours messing with the settings to find something great.

There will have to be limitations. And maybe "transgenetic" is that ceiling. :) This is more about fairly and adequately representing the plurality of people that already existed on Earth before we set out to System 3, at which time the diversity had probably only increased.

Also, I agree with you. Presets are pretty much mandatory. It takes a certain type to obsess over every little detail of their character. I happen to be one of those, but others should be able to jump right in if they like. And in this case, I'd just ask that the presets also be very diverse.

(Edit: Oh my god! I tried to write tho-rny, but it was censored, probably because of the last 5 letters. So then I changed it to pr-ick-ly, which was censored because of the first 5 letters! So I had to go with tricky.)

WiwarK9
05-12-2018, 10:20 AM
I'd just ask that the presets also be very diverse.
What do you mean by diverse ?
diverse enough to alienate a part of the consumer base ?

DevilmanSinner
05-12-2018, 02:22 PM
How in seven infernos can character presets alienate any section of the consumer base? If the character presets are varied, then that means that there will be something for many sections of the consumer base. In what (il)logical framework does diversity alienate? Who does it alienate?

We're discussing a game in which human beings splice genes of animals to create human-animal hybrids, and all Kamitto is requesting is that the character presets (and likely random character generator) be varied in what it offers you. I'm so curious: in a universe where human-animal hyrids are possible, how is diversity and variation among playable (and nonplayable) characters going to "alienate a part of the consumer base?"

Kamitto
05-12-2018, 02:39 PM
What do you mean by diverse ?
diverse enough to alienate a part of the consumer base ?

I've been trying hard to be civil, so I mostly ignore posts like these, but I'm going to take the time to answer this one. Just this once, maybe so I have a place to point others later.

I need you to actually think about what you're saying here. That the mere presence of diverse presets for character creation will alienate other players. The very appearance of say, a black female player character, followed maybe by an Asian transman (though I don't know how they'd know this at a glance), followed by a disabled old lizardwoman, for the 2-3 seconds it takes to say "yes" or "no" before moving on to the next preset is off-putting to some people?

As if just to remind white male gamers (and this has to be who you're talking about, right?) just for a few seconds, that they are not the only people on the planet, our real Earth, or the one in some imagined future, is some sort of offense. You are saying that just seeing different kinds of people is enough for these gamers to feel "alienated", to not want to play the game at all, to somehow themselves feel excluded??

Do you not realize how sickeningly, disgustingly, and reprehensibly hateful this is?

Do people of color, women, transfolks, queer folks, and all the other kinds of marginalized people, automatically feel alienated and not want to play a game just because nearly every one not only defaults the white male player character, but doesn't even provide a choice to change that?

Well, honestly? YES, we do.

But that is because we have constantly been excluded, and that doesn't FEEL good. Because it suggests that we don't have value, that we are not good enough to have a leading role, that we can't be "chosen", or so uniquely qualified and powerful as to save the world. No, that can only ever be Sam Fisher, or Nathan Drake, or Solid Snake, or Sam Worthington from Cameron's Avatar in what amounts to billion-dollar "blueface".

But then we go on and play, anyway, because we often have no choice, and otherwise wouldn't play very many games at all.

On the other hand, our mere representation in a character preset does not DENY you the option to keep scrolling to find your white male preset, or to create it yourself. Our mere PRESENCE does not mean you are not welcome. So what, exactly, is it, about "diversity" that offends or "alienates" the consumer base, other than raw, naked, racism, misogyny, and/other other forms of bigotry and hatred? WHAT ELSE?

I once heard a commenter on YouTube say that diversity is like a seasoning: a little can enhance the flavor, but too much ruins the meal. WHAT? How can a person possibly not realize the inherent racism in this statement? "Oh, I don't mind a few black or brown people around, but if their numbers get too great, I'm out of there!"

The worst thing about your post I've already addressed, but I need to bring it up again to highlight just how vile it is. In the example we're talking about, the player would only have to look at these diverse characters for a few seconds, before moving on to make their choice. Dude. You can't even LOOK at us? Nevermind accept the possibility that a hero could look like us?

I ask that you really, deeply, reflect on why you and other gamers think the way you do, and what that means for the rest of us.

WiwarK9
05-12-2018, 05:17 PM
I need you to actually think about what you're saying here. That the mere presence of diverse presets for character creation will alienate other players. The very appearance of say, a black female player character, followed maybe by an Asian transman (though I don't know how they'd know this at a glance), followed by a disabled old lizardwoman, for the 2-3 seconds it takes to say "yes" or "no" before moving on to the next preset is off-putting to some people?

As if just to remind white male gamers (and this has to be who you're talking about, right?) just for a few seconds, that they are not the only people on the planet, our real Earth, or the one in some imagined future, is some sort of offense. You are saying that just seeing different kinds of people is enough for these gamers to feel "alienated", to not want to play the game at all, to somehow themselves feel excluded??

First i don't know why you are talking about diverse character by their race just for a reminder this game is set in a world where china and india are the superpower in charge if i really hated that kind of diversity i would not be here, also i like my game when they are fidel to their themes, if the game feature a little to no white characters i would have no problem in it.
What i was talking, and i think you know it, is trans character i don't know a lot of things about transgender and i browsed some of their forum the majority of them die to be the perfect women or the perfect men do you need to remind them of a sex they don't like ? but if you are talking about trans who pass their time calling themselves trans then i can understand it's hard to be a certain sex when even yourself doesn not define yourself correctly.
I will make clear my position i respect all LGBT, the + define mental disorder.


Do people of color, women, transfolks, queer folks, and all the other kinds of marginalized people, automatically feel alienated and not want to play a game just because nearly every one not only defaults the white male player character, but doesn't even provide a choice to change that?

Well, honestly? YES, we do.

https://preview.ibb.co/d0i6mJ/Sans_titre.png

You don't speak for me thanks, you can remove poc i grew up playing at a local gamestore and it's the most "diverse" place you could visit betwen arabs black white and asian there is everything for everyone, the most prude about race where white because they were afraid to offend while we could aford to call each other the be the most racist pieces of **** at one point they stoped being prude and we are friend untill this day.

I hate when people speak for others you are not a champion of people of color because you are one.


But that is because we have constantly been excluded, and that doesn't FEEL good. Because it suggests that we don't have value, that we are not good enough to have a leading role, that we can't be "chosen", or so uniquely qualified and powerful as to save the world. No, that can only ever be Sam Fisher, or Nathan Drake, or Solid Snake, or Sam Worthington from Cameron's Avatar in what amounts to billion-dollar "blueface".

But then we go on and play, anyway, because we often have no choice, and otherwise wouldn't play very many games at all.

Having to have a character having your skin color to be able to relate to him is a (little bit) racist, my mains role model are from japanimation (yes i'm a ****ing weeb). If you have a problem relating to ohter character because of their race that mean you lack empathy.

"Muh wiwark9 don't you lack empathy too because you can't accept those transthing character ?"

Allowing the creation of it and putting it onto the charachter preset are 2 different things, i will always support giving the player the choice but i love ancel team i loved the first bge1 and i want to have the tool to defend BGE2, my goal is to make everyone play the game even the racist sexist one that you hate so much, if you put those trans into the character preset it's done there is nothing to do anymore and no argument could ever save this game, i would still buy it because the gameplay will be pure gold.


But then we go on and play, anyway, because we often have no choice, and otherwise wouldn't play very many games at all.

You can check the numbers almost half of game have charachter builder
Here is a link to feminist frequency normaly it should be biased for your side so i don't look like a lier.
https://feministfrequency.com/2017/06/14/gender-breakdown-of-games-featured-at-e3-2017/
https://femfreq2.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/e3-2017-gender.png

N/A are robots/furry/etc, even if you hate males so much you could still play 74% of the game on the market.


On the other hand, our mere representation in a character preset does not DENY you the option to keep scrolling to find your white male preset, or to create it yourself. Our mere PRESENCE does not mean you are not welcome. So what, exactly, is it, about "diversity" that offends or "alienates" the consumer base, other than raw, naked, racism, misogyny, and/other other forms of bigotry and hatred? WHAT ELSE?

"your white male preset"
Did you just assume my race ?

The racism and misogyny come because people like you are using entire group of people to defend their ideas it's no wonder no one complained about female character when i was young and now it's nearly seen as the pest of the entertainement industry because you have to basically spoil yourself to death if you don't want to buy a mary sue.
Also be happy every balck women character that come out now have heavy % to be gay because... you know white/cis/male -> black/gay/women naughty dog is in the leading charge you should play their games.


I once heard a commenter on YouTube say that diversity is like a seasoning: a little can enhance the flavor, but too much ruins the meal. WHAT? How can a person possibly not realize the inherent racism in this statement? "Oh, I don't mind a few black or brown people around, but if their numbers get too great, I'm out of there!"

And he is right diversity should be like seasoning because to much is a just stupid. A story that happen in africa with 100% black is not diverse, a story that happen in asia and is 100% asiat is not diverse, diversity is great if it's handled in a good way because if you want to be too inclusive you will fall in the trap of " if i do this character do something bad that mean i hate *insert your minority here* " Too much diversity will bring you the thunder of the racist/sexist and also the thunder of the overprogressist if you dare to develop the characters.
That's why they say get woke go broke.
Diversity on a single story is bad however diversity in an entire industry can be good if handled well look at black panther a vast majority is black and people still go see it and it is a great film a part of the reason is because the film is not diverse and you can do what you want with every character.

All i want is the maximum of people to buy this game and when i say the maximum i mean EVERYONE, remember that my point is not remove the fact that you can create a transcharacter, my point is only do not inclue it in the character preset because it's a statement by the team that will say " we choose our side you can go ****yourself "


There are two words that I want to say in response to that, one that starts with F, the other with YOU. But I won't, because like I said, I want to keep things civil. I would just ask that you really, deeply, reflect on why you and other gamers think the way you do, and what that means for the rest of us.
.
I think this way because i keep seing group of people who don't even play video game using it to fight a culture war wich i would be happy to not participate but sadly we reached a point where inaction is similar to collaboration just by saying what i think i was called a racist sexist nazi and if i am to be in one side i would prefer to be on the side whote hate me for my skin and not for my ideas.

Kamitto
05-12-2018, 08:17 PM
[...]


It is difficult for me to understand your post, but what I can glean indicates a misunderstanding of what I said, and an inability or unwillingness to actually address the points I was making. So for those reasons, I respectfully decline to engage with you further on this topic.

To everyone else, I would like to steer the conversation back to the original question of what people would like to see in the character builder. What's come up, inadvertently, is the foreseeable limitations on it. Which I think is worth discussing, too.

WiwarK9
05-13-2018, 02:15 PM
It is difficult for me to understand your post, but what I can glean indicates a misunderstanding of what I said, and an inability or unwillingness to actually address the points I was making

So after my long rant where i said every problem i had with the subject of preset and more you still dare to say tldr: " he dodged the question ".

Great if anyone feel like i dodged something please feel free to tell me i may not be a good human being but at least i try to be honest.

Legion-495
05-13-2018, 02:50 PM
The big money question is how would the public react to a type of the third option.
I say it is a 50/50 thing. Financially very likely a bit troubling.
And would people in support buy that?

I think Marvel was it who tried the diversity thing and canceled some comics because that didn't go so well.
Marvel said that many were in support but almost no one bought the stuff.
Either way, we should not care about any race, because thinking in such terms is racist.

Similar thing with the "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle" shirt. People went nuts over this and the mother got threatened. You basically have to already think racist to care about such stuff. And we saw that sadly many went with this whole H&M storm.
It just shows that people still separate themselves by race and skin color. The crazy part is that those people (Who went fully against H&M) claim that they are not racist. As it seems, many who claim not to be racist are the ones who are racist and judge on race and color. They judged the company based on the color of that child which was happy to get the chance of doing this photo session (granted H&M could have done better).
Now I would not be surprised if that has an impact on how games sell. I don't think people take changes so easily which has been shown by Marvel and H&M.

We should care about if it fits the world. (Indeed Asian people)
And I think it could easily be that humans and hybrids are modified to fit into aspects companies want.

Also, I have to say over all the time I played games I could always feel with my character no matter how unrepresented I was myself. -.- So I cannot relate with the "excluded feeling". I would say in fact you learn about the character over the dialogue you have in the world you are in.
Now I have to say I am very curious how the BGE2 will work around this very sensitive topic. I want to wait for that first.

I get what WiwarK9 means.
It has been on my mind too. The issue here is we know that if that game flops due to a single show off of the transgender option that BGE3 will not happen. That is why I would "fool" the people with a female-male body shape selection. Presets should not show too much information.
I am not against it, but I am concerned what the public would think of it.

WiwarK9
05-13-2018, 07:13 PM
We should care about if it fits the world. (Indeed asian people)
And I think it could easily be that humans and hybrids are modified to fit into aspects companies want.
Reproductive reasons? Who knows.

Yes that would make sense why do you need to give them a sex where their only goal is to be used to death, there could be a certain part of the hybrid who are breeders and lower the cost of production of the hybrids.
Letting the hybrids have a famiy is dangerous because they could become selfish, that's why communism try to destroy families, you must not be selfish in a communist society.


It has been on my mind too. The issue here is we know that if that game flops due to a single show off of the transgender option that BGE3 will not happen.
the panda is trans but it's subtle that's why we should support games that do not rub things in our faces.
And I wouldn't go as far as saying bge3 will not happen but expect the bubble that is this forum people are really skeptic of the game,
some don't like the fact that it is an open world because they are bored to death by this genre.
Some don't like the character builder because the feel the story will take a huge blow.
Some don't like the number of planets we will explore because of the no man's sky disaster.
And some don't like the fact that diversity is a huge focus by the dev in all their conference fearing there is an agenda behind the game.
Ubisoft have really to make everything clear during the next e3 because a LOT of people don't follow the space monkey report.

Kamitto
05-13-2018, 08:15 PM
Please keep this thread on topic.

We are talking about the character builder, what we want to see in it, and what may be some of its limitations.

UbiBorghal
05-14-2018, 09:15 PM
Please keep this thread on topic.

We are talking about the character builder, what we want to see in it, and what may be some of its limitations.


This. If there are other topics you would like to discuss, please open a new thread. And keep the conversation respectful of other people's experiences and viewpoints. This thread is about the character builder, so keep the discussion about it. Thank you, Space Monkeys!

Legion-495
05-15-2018, 03:52 PM
If we have presets I think we should have at least 5 per hybrid. Just to have it said^^

RocketRacoon06
05-15-2018, 06:54 PM
I want a Rocket Racoon

XRhodiumX
05-15-2018, 07:33 PM
Eh…that's not actually true for humans.

https://img00.deviantart.net/58eb/i/2015/199/1/a/amazon_woman_and_tiny_guy_by_lowerrider-d91vv7a.jpg

Your argument also completely ignores the existence of transfolk. Sexual dimorphism is more evident in other species than humans. I think for the purposes of this game, the only reason to have it at all is to give the player more options. But I don't think these kinds of options should be based on sex. Similarly…



Genderfluid person here.

Just wanted to chime in and point out that differences in human bone structure, facial structure, musculature, size, and even personality do exist on a statistically significant level between males and females by way of sexual dimorphism. And it's something that the human brain can detect, and will often try to use when attempting to determine someone's gender at first sight (for better or worse). It's just that human beings have comparitively low levels of sexual dimorphism, relative to other mammals; there are much less sex differences in humans than say, apes. There appears to be an evolutionary reason for this too: in short, species that are less dimorphic tend to take better care of their young, and seeing as human young are very fragile, good parenting is important for homo saipian.

Now as this pertains to a character creator controlling for most of the dimorphic stuff doesn't really matter - stuff like size, facial structure, and musculature especially - because it's sort of a given that you're going to be able to make whatever character you would like. You're free to be an outlier, and your ability to be an outlier looks like it's going to be a very liberating aspect of this game. I just feel as though that when populating the world with NPCs, Ubi Montreal shouldn't ignore the fact that things like size, musculature, and to a limited degree temperment are correlated with sex on the level of averages. Exceptions to these trends make for some of the best characters, but I think they should be purposfully done.

On the other hand, one dymorphic trait does spring to mind as rather consistant - besides the obvious genital/mammary size issue - and that's the width of the hips. The human skeliton in general does vary fairly reliably between the sexes but for the most part it's rather slight. The pelvis is the component that stands out. Females tend to have wider, lower hips, and their femers tend to be a little more angled as a result. So I wouldn't exactly mind if this was reflected in the sex option of the character creator.

Stuff like the facial hair and the muscles and what not should absolutely be an option for everyone. Though I wonder if features in more dymorhpic hybrid species should be locked behind sex. Large tusks spring to mind with asain elephant hybrids for example(tusks on African elephants aren't a dymorphic feature).

RocketRacoon06
05-15-2018, 08:12 PM
Or Star Lord

DevilmanSinner
05-16-2018, 12:32 AM
On the other hand, one dymorphic trait does spring to mind as rather consistant - besides the obvious genital/mammary size issue - and that's the width of the hips. The human skeliton in general does vary fairly reliably between the sexes but for the most part it's rather slight. The pelvis is the component that stands out. Females tend to have wider, lower hips, and their femers tend to be a little more angled as a result. So I wouldn't exactly mind if this was reflected in the sex option of the character creator.

Stuff like the facial hair and the muscles and what not should absolutely be an option for everyone. Though I wonder if features in more dymorhpic hybrid species should be locked behind sex. Large tusks spring to mind with asain elephant hybrids for example(tusks on African elephants aren't a dymorphic feature).

The hips thing is something I completely forgot. Thank you for that.

And your last paragraph is surely correct. Though I wonder if the devs will allow such specificity between regional variations of certain animals.

Kamitto
05-17-2018, 12:58 AM
And your last paragraph is surely correct. Though I wonder if the devs will allow such specificity between regional variations of certain animals.

That would be hyper-specific. Maybe just have Asian (smaller) or African (larger) ears, and different tusks sizes, with no consideration for the elephant species that went into the hybrid.

Legion-495
05-17-2018, 01:34 AM
To be honest I would not be surprised if we could change the size of such traits as ears etc.
Seems logical. So it shouldn't be a big deal.

I am curious how clothing will be. I wonder if there is already a selection at the character creation.
But first. I would really like to know the number of how many hybrid types will exist, to begin with.^^
Hmm, I really hope that stuff like hair (if hybrids have hairstyles) is changeable. I know there are way too many games where you have to be 100% sure at the creator because changing later is impossible.

So I hope for Skyrim type of solution with a "face change" kind of place.
Also, the creator needs full-color spectrum. This may look silly, but there are too many games that limit it for no reason.

DevilmanSinner
05-24-2018, 12:43 AM
I was thinking about XRhodiumX's comment about sexually dimorphic traits in humans and nonhuman animals and it got me thinking about how capitalism (I assume the economy will be somewhat capitalistic?) would/could lead to the commodification of (sexually dimorphic) traits in the creation of hybrids. For example, male versus female octopi. Female octopi are stronger, bigger, and smarter demonstrably; whereas male octopi are smaller, weaker and generally less intuitive than their female counterparts. So if a company is investing thousands or millions of dollars into creating a hybrid with octopus genetics, why waste resources on creating a male octopus hybrid when male octopus genes are less attractive (thus less valuable? Am I clear in my thinking? There's an advantage between the sexes of certain species, at least if you think in a way that commodifies the traits of animals. If males and females each have their own strengths, then invest in both (e.g. lions, females are faster but males are stronger-built). I think it would be a challenge to find more examples and then implement them in-game, but it was just a weird thought I had. So I figured I'd share.

Also, if a hybrid is only available as a certain sex, it opens up interesting narrative options if you want that character to be trans; maybe this is the concept of being "transgenetic" Kamitto and I touched on briefly???

Thoughts I thought were interesting.

Legion-495
05-24-2018, 12:56 AM
Hmm like Amazons.
Such tribes of those hybrids should exist. If they exist.

The big question remains for me. How could they possibly create lines for each gender?
Just by the amount, it seems like a neverending work if every one of those interacts differently.
Can one break genders down enough to make this even possible? Did not see a game with that goal so far.

I could see that the gender is not defined by the character creator, but suggested over dialogue lines one takes. I think if there would be a gender selection that it would very likely be very meaningless because there are many to work on.

WiwarK9
05-24-2018, 07:05 AM
it got me thinking about how capitalism (I assume the economy will be somewhat capitalistic?) would/could lead to the commodification of (sexually dimorphic) traits in the creation of hybrids.
If depends wich is cheaper, let them reproduce or creating them in a lab, if letting them reproduce is cheaper then that would not happen but if it's indeed cheaper to create them then yes there will surely be an over representation of one of the 2 gender.


I could see that the gender is not defined by the character creator, but suggested over dialogue lines one takes. I think if there would be a gender selection that it would very likely be very meaningless because there are many to work on.
I don't think they will go with the 72 genders, having the option to separate gender M/F and sex is already a big step forward, except porn games i don't know any AAA that did this before.
A dialogue can also be structured so you don't need to the gender at all or ultimatly if they want to go balls deep into it they could always put the option to choose to remplace word to use certain pronom but oh boï better prepare the popcorn in that case.

Legion-495
05-24-2018, 04:23 PM
oh boï better prepare the popcorn in that case

Yeah. Can't wait to see how they want to deal with it.
I can tell the translation will be a big issue. Genders are basically not used in Germany or in Austria.
From my perspective, it has been a very English talk about it. The words for it simply do not exist in German language and I bet many others too.

This seems to be a big hurdle.

SleekyGeeky
05-27-2018, 01:57 AM
honestly no matter whats in the character builder ill end up spending the first couple hours in it and then probably end up going back. i have this idea to make a cowboy bebop bounty hunter type character, slick cool kinda skinny human wearing a clean suit and only in it for the money, but sadly i doubt i'll be able to make him look and play exactly how i want or at least close enough (though here's hoping!). So chances are i'll end up playing what ever hybrid i think would be sick and make for a good lead character in the story in my head. With that being the case basically just more in detail parts of the character creator would be great such as more face options than whats been shown in the videos so far, as in if i wanna play as the shark, i don't want my sharks face to be identical to every other player playing a shark. maybe i want him to be a hammerhead, maybe i want his mouth to be closed rather than open (as shown in video). basically just give me actual face options for hybrids other than; shark head, monkey head, gator head, etc. give me piercing options, tattoo options, basic face structure options; mouth type, cheek bones, chin, eyes/eye brows, hair, nose, etc (again). also body type, they've already shown off structure with being able to be skinny/ fat/ muscley. But i'd also love to be able to control posture, how they run, maybe i want him to run like a monkey or maybe i want him to run with a large hulking presence.

I want to make my character feel alive i want the option to make them look like they've been through and seen some shiz, emphasis on the option, i don't want my characters to always have to look like that. The point here is OPTIONS. If the point of the game is freedom then give me the freedom of truly being able to play whoever/whatever i want.

tldr: basically i wanna weeb out and play cowboy bebop. also put in actual options for faces and bodys like scars, tattoos, piercings, and the possibility to change face structure a bit ( not full control though, i honestly don't wanna see fallout 4/dark souls character abominations running around ). freedom freedom freedom blah blah blah

TurboPikachu
06-11-2018, 11:08 PM
It's nice that most people will have their gameplay experience improved by the creator.
However, I must say that the creator may negatively impact my own experience directly. (I mean, I'm just one person and I don't matter compared to millions, but eh)

When the first trailer was shown at E3 2017, I was under the impression that Shani and Knox would be the only playable characters. These two characters clearly are intended to have enormous backstories to them, but this game's character creator brings about an uncertainty. Depending on how Ubisoft plans to implement this feature, characters could bring about valuable narrative impact comparable to Battletech (in an absolute best-case scenario), a superficial change lacking narrative impact like Fallout 4 or Mass Effect Andromeda, or a template with no value whatsoever like Saints Row (in a worst-case scenario)
Regardless, I'm sure pretty much everyone's enjoyment of the game won't be as influenced by the narrative as mine will. I'm just feeling quite disheartened over a potential prospect that Shani and Knox's prominence may be hampered.
Edit: As a furry myself, having hybrids as an option in the creator will at least pique my curiosity, and certainly will save this game from my overwhelmingly dreadful perceptions of other games' character creators. Though, my concerns over the story still stand.

icU-Jokery
06-12-2018, 02:10 AM
really dont care about what customizing i can do i just dont want to see everyone have same face :P

SIbera
06-12-2018, 02:29 AM
I'd love to see Hybrids as playable. Everything from Big Cats to pandas and beyond! Would make for a fantastic set up to create your own hero and not mess with continuity and build on customization than 'just a human'.

Dragonheart_96
06-12-2018, 02:44 AM
I cross my fingers and hope for a tail. I also think digitigrade (walking on toes instead of flat-footed) could be cool, but I'm not sure how doable that is. More than anything, though, I would love species to mean something. If I'm a cat, I want to be doing downright ridiculous parkour/freerunning and maybe have a certain...charm, we'll say. If I'm a rhino, I want to bulldoze through all the things. Things like that. (Personally, I'm rooting for a fox hybrid, but I'm waiting to see what makes it to the game (especially since I probably have totally unrealistic expectations))

Mushmallow25
06-12-2018, 05:48 AM
Would like it if we werent locked to a certain body type for the different sapiens. I'm of a mind to make a petite Macaque hacker type. So, many sliders will be a plus.

ZuNDeRsKY
06-12-2018, 01:52 PM
personally I would love to see lynx hybrids and if they are playable can modify the length of the whiskers or even cut some as a mark of a fight.
(I apologize for my English I am Spanish and I do not master the language well I use the google tratuctor for the words that I do not understand :pag )

t_mmey
06-12-2018, 02:45 PM
not sure if anyone posted this idea, but i would love the ability to add cybernetics to your body, like a prosthetic arm or an eye and things like that, would definetly fit the setting in my opinion

cpellet
06-12-2018, 03:35 PM
Cosmetic and wearables options would also actually be nice (for exaple with a range of t-shirt logos or designs as well as colors). Some wearables could be acquired via in-game challenges and progress triggered items could have a weak effect on character abilities (speed, health...) Let me know what you thinkab

Moshpet01
06-12-2018, 06:46 PM
OK, what I want to see in character creation.

Well, my daughter firmly wants CAT PEOPLE. :)

That said, I'm going to first say:
There are more than 2 genders in the world and countless forms of gender expression.
If this offends the heteronormative biased folks out there, I am not sorry to have burst their bubble.

As in nature (and in humanity) we see more than two genders. (XX, XY, 47XXY, 45XY male, 46XY female ), Yes, while male and female might seem normal, Hermaphrodites, Asexual reproduction and as we also see in nature, vairous species can change thier genders due to envirnomental reasons. Thus it make no sense to build a character generation table built on purely male or female.

It takes little to no extra coding for dialog to add in him, he, she, her and the like, do it should take as little effort to add in the gender-neutral pronouns others may with as well.
Mx,Mux, They, them. Pronouns matter and there is no sense in designing any product in this day and age where you will leave out or make part of the gaming population uncomfortable.

Yes I am well aware that there is an angry and rabid faction of heteronormative postmodern thinkers who will not be as welcoming to this, yet, it is time to move beyond such staid thinking. People frequently play games to escape such rigid binary thinkingand abuse in real life, they should not have to contend with it in games as well.

------------------------

Next:

Flexibility in the character design is a must, don't just give us a basic template of six or so species to choose from and then leave it at that. Open the character creator up in such a manner that we can take a basic skeleton, and then can add things either like tails, extra arms, antennas and the like. Yet also to adjust limb length (forearm/humorus) as well as the legs. ALlow us to chose which skull we'd like to design from, and then the choices of eyese and so on.

Allow for a mixture of skin coverings too, rather than just limiting the players to smooth, scales or fur, allow for limbs to have a mixture as well ad the torso and head.

Cybernetics. I remeber a game where if you died, you could end up with cybernetic limbs when you 'woke up.' It was an ammusing death peanalty to wake up that way, and then to try and get to a place where you could get an arm or an upgrade.

Ta ta for now.
Moshren

AThousandCrumbs
06-12-2018, 08:25 PM
A way to edit face geometry and a way to save and share custom presets with others.

guest-QP5ngeJU
06-12-2018, 10:38 PM
"It takes little to no extra coding for dialog to add in him, he, she, her and the like, do it should take as little effort to add in the gender-neutral pronouns others may with as well. "
One problem that was brought about is translation. Even if some pronoun exist in english, it's not the case in all language, so it will probably hard to do.
(For exemple they don't really exist in French, native language of some of the developers)
But I agree that if they already put the effort of putting joker space in the dialog to put the associated pronoun, you just have to set a 3rd list of pronoun.

"Mx,Mux, They, them. Pronouns matter and there is no sense in designing any product in this day and age where you will leave out or make part of the gaming population uncomfortable. "
In fact, yes, there is some sense. Indeed, gender is something that is a lot discussed nowdays, but even if some people thing that the issue as already been decided (as well in those who think there is only 2 gender as those who think there is more), it is not and will not until a lot of time. Like another post said, even seperating gender and sex is already a big inclusive step toward transfolk and other.


"Yes I am well aware that there is an angry and rabid faction of heteronormative postmodern thinkers who will not be as welcoming to this, yet, it is time to move beyond such staid thinking."
I think I should warn you that you probably group all the people that don't agree to you in this group, and probably don't even try to listen to people who have something to say. But it's just a possibility I guess.
For exemple, another option when you see that a label don't fit, instead of replacing it, would be to delete it, so delete the principle of gender and the sexism that may come with it. But it can easly be overlooked by people with rigid binary thinking.


To conclude my post, like other said here before, I think there is no conclusion on this question, we're in a situation were no one is right, or should I say, everyone think they are right. So, like they say, there is probably no good decision, only a bet the developers will make.

And I agree about what was said about diversity, having too much is not good, like everything (for exemple having literally 10,000 haircut would be useless, and the player will not take long before giving up in searching a haircut that he/she/it like). It doesn't mean that it shouldn't be inclusive because a few skin color(for exemple) and such isn't that heavy I guess, I'm just saying that they should probably avoid from overdoing things like in the haircut exemple

Rmdlr25
06-12-2018, 11:45 PM
Positions in the ship as: mechanic, navigators, soldier, etc. Weapon design within start elements, partners, terrain vends, religion (and how this affects the personality of the character) and create your own backstory or choose from several options.

StrikerEureka3
06-13-2018, 11:13 AM
I would love to be able to spend hours customising my character and my crew. Most important points have already been mentioned, I only want to add one point. I hope it wil be possible to choose tattoos from a wide range. Hopefully tattoos not only in arms, but on every part of the body.

pheemama
06-13-2018, 09:47 PM
I would love plenty of options for females which is sometimes lacking in other games. Things like plenty of hairstyles from long to short, make-up options, tattoos for more than just face and arms, etc. Age would be cool as well.

WolfHavenXIII
06-15-2018, 09:55 AM
I'm the type that spends hours in the character creator, I feel like an MMO like character creator would be amazing since they have so many options.
kinda like some of these:

https://youtu.be/b5pN5-MOQXU

Also, one thing I hope they do add especially for the human type characters is a well designed diverse set of base models to choose from.
For example if sometimes want to create an Asian like face for my character but either there's no Asian preset or the Asian preset is meh kinda like in mass effect lol.

IT-Tom
06-16-2018, 03:41 PM
I just want to play as a hyena hybrid :)

Cara2100
06-17-2018, 03:19 AM
lol I want to be a pure human hahahah

I think it would be different from the others hahaha

NakuaTM
06-17-2018, 05:09 AM
I would like to see different character walk/run/attack/standing animations. Like being able to give your character a more heavy, limber, aggressive or even comical movements. If there was a decent selection of them, then we would be able to really have a feeling for our characters. It would also be amazing if there was categories for personality movements and a slider bar could be used to change the intensity of the personality so it could be subtle or a little extra.

Super-Blink
06-17-2018, 01:35 PM
I just want to be able to have awesome tattoos on my character, so he can be a real punk crazy pirate !

DevilmanSinner
06-17-2018, 04:35 PM
Heh. It's so funny that the new BG&E2 trailer had much more that qualifies as "punk" than the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer had. :p

LOL That's definitely true! Maybe because BG&E2 is set like, 300 years after CP2077, they had more time to become more punk. Essentially the world, and the universe at large will just keep getting more punk. Which is a great thing.

SDP312
06-18-2018, 06:03 AM
The option to change a characters size and weight along with the ability to have cybernetics and or robotics.

Galakseeowonder
06-18-2018, 01:13 PM
Love it
I'd love customization steps
Choose the base human ethny cause it's base on earth and not like some star wars world that could mix ethny specifics.
Choose your hybrid animal (irrelevant for full human char) that would be more animal group like equus (zebra horses...) reptiles (lizards, crocodiles, snakes...)... And some special animals like armadilloes, kagaroos...
Choose hybridation level (0% for full human and 50% for max animalish look)
Then some presets or randomization
Then deep customisation choices of face, body shape, horns ears, eyes, furr/skin patterns and the extence of pattern, different colors for bellies...
Then either on customisation or in game have tattoos and furr dyes and furr/hair cuts that would work like need for speed car paints. Assembling different patterns to make more complicated with overlapping, transparency, size, shape, scale and orinetation changes and even uploading drawings,.
Having in game changes like dyes and cuts would be cheap, then tattoos more expensive and most expensive would be some kind of genetic changes in furr growing to change the speed of growing hairs and the color this could be really expensive in ingame money and cheap with real one and would be kind of definitive.
I'd love have time and environment affect hair growth and overall look, like your hair would grow, dyes would fade, char would get dirty from fighting/falling/running in the mud/swamps, you could wash by getting on a lake or taking a shower...
Ornaments, jewells, horn carving... Could be awesome not too definitive for carving having a kind of growth boost then recarve to reset that'd be expensive.
Jewels or equipments fitting animals specifics would be awesome like armors for horns teeth jewells for style or reinforcement (imagine sharks, whales and dog and catlike hybrids with metal teeth)
Neck armor for giraffe...
Some would be a sign of freedom like elephant and rhino breed for their horns would protect or ornate them out of fear or pride and show a bit of their behaviour (protection wpuld be afraid and have some kind of prey behaviour but ornament would be fearless and show predator behaviour).
Having special melee attacks from every species like killer whales, sharks and felins and dog like would bite, horn attack from rams, goats, giraffes (with striking strength thanks to the neck), elephants rhinos, deers... Kangaroos punches, cows, horses, rabbits... Big kicks...

Azariachan
06-19-2018, 12:57 AM
I'm absolutely disgusted by the new "edgy" art direction of BGE. It doesn't feel like the BGE I played back in 2003 at all, and right now I have no intentions of buying the game no matter how much I loved the original.
HOWEVER, if they include the option to play as bear humanoids, I will absolutely buy BGE2. The punk panda and grizzly bear with dreadlocks on the main page look sick as, and I'd gladly pay for a game that allows me to play as these characters!

Alauddin19
06-19-2018, 01:10 PM
i'd love to have some things indian people do, as I'm an indian, like to have different types of 'tika', which is a mark on the forehead, of men and women somewhat like the one on the forehead of UMA from the new trailer. I'd also like to choose my hairstyle and customize it with beads, and earrings and different ornaments to be worn, etc.
And also different tattoes for arms and necks.
Wearing different types of rings on fingers and different keychains on the jetpack.:cool:

Buttsamurai2099
08-10-2018, 01:56 AM
Your facial hair should grow long if you a man and you don't cut it regularly . Next there should be emotes for the character like in fornite and they should have different rarity for common to legendary.

There should be places where you can go to customize your character like gym,barber,clothing stores. There should be morality meter to show how could or bad is you character also there should be info like where were they born.

They should also have house when they start the game for the first time because they have the ship immediately. But there activities/features that involve your character's apperance like if you get dirty you won't instantly get clean or if you get wet it should take to get dry and the way you look should dictate how NPCS interact with you.

But if you do go to the gym for it should improve your stats in most regions and secondly it change the apperance of your character.

KIERROK
08-12-2018, 02:27 PM
Tails for hybrids

Legion-495
08-15-2018, 09:23 AM
A thing that may get thrown under the bus. It would be neat if one could change the character later on if one wants to.
Like the Skyrim "showracemenu" thing which got an own character to do it.
Or SaintsRow which did actually have shops for that.

Just to have it mentioned once.

brigglit
08-15-2018, 10:47 PM
I'd love to see tattoos/tribal paint/face paint ect and markings all fully customisable and able to place exactly where you want them , able to flip and rotate plus change any of the colours

Galakseeowonder
08-24-2018, 01:32 PM
One customization system I found really interesting was in a game I'm missing the name, you first chose for every feature drom different choices, then each had some sliders, that you could independantly move to affect the appearance, shape of the feature, like horns, you'd choose the number and the type of horns, then cursors for modification of length and thickness, and one was to curl the horns on one side or another, and so you could adapt how mush you would like to curl them it was sliders which had a wide precision and effect, depending on the type of horn they would curl backwards or around tthe axis of the uncurled base. This was adapted to every feature like different types of eyes that would change a bit with the sliders, jewells, haircuts....
I would love a skyrim customisation for the face, but with the system described above for accessories, hair, horns, furs (would change thickness, length, and size and répartition of patterns) and so on.

Galakseeowonder
08-24-2018, 04:04 PM
Your facial hair should grow long if you a man and you don't cut it regularly . Next there should be emotes for the character like in fornite and they should have different rarity for common to legendary.

There should be places where you can go to customize your character like gym,barber,clothing stores. There should be morality meter to show how could or bad is you character also there should be info like where were they born.

They should also have house when they start the game for the first time because they have the ship immediately. But there activities/features that involve your character's apperance like if you get dirty you won't instantly get clean or if you get wet it should take to get dry and the way you look should dictate how NPCS interact with you.

But if you do go to the gym for it should improve your stats in most regions and secondly it change the apperance of your character.

For the recustom character shops it should be good except if some features have impact on the game itself like species hybrided that would imply different reactions or special abilities.
For the male having facial hair growth, that made me thought of different characteristics depending on the gender, like male lion hybrids (don't know if it would be specie special hybrid or animal group like feline that would give you more chpices of fur patterns and other characteristics to mix) would be able to have mane and to do special mane cuts, same for horses... Chameleons could be awesome being able to change colors an maybe control it and maintain one and change freely, maibe have saved pattern that you could activate to look more ferocious diplomatic or just as a good camouflage.
Love the gym part but would be awesome to work on muscle and choose to be able to enhance special stats, and also change your look (and have an impressive ratio that would frightened people at high and would make you look like an easy prey at low would work with the cameleon idea above)

Hyaenu
10-03-2018, 12:34 AM
Next there should be emotes for the character like in fornite and they should have different rarity for common to legendary.

If there's gonna be emotes, which could be fun since I recall hearing hints of possible co-opr? I'd rather it just be there freely available, ya know, like most every other RPG game with em has done. [Or maybe if they really wanted to, could be some ya learn from exploring the world], and not through some nonsensical fortnite loot box gambling scheme.

Why use fortnite for an example anyways? Very different style and genre of game apart from guns.


There should be places where you can go to customize your character like gym,barber,clothing stores.

I do like this idea. Kind of like what Fallout 4 and the Saints Row games did with those locations for new hairdos and full on "surgery".

Plus I get the feeling it'd probably fit into the game's sorta kinda "wild west" styled cyberpunk setting. Though would be rather silly if someone went from imposing hybrid to small petite humanoid.

Sombraziel
10-19-2018, 09:54 AM
SIZE=4]For the next, in order to simplify things for devs, copy this and complete with your wishes

Species:

Choice between human and every possible hybrid species.

Body :

Height, Body Type, and Musculature;

- A basic customization set.
Musculature (A triangular wheel between massive musculature, obesity and thinness).
Size of your character.

- A complete advanced body customization set :
Aion like system of body creation with a wheel for all body parts;

Character size,
Head size,
Neck thickness,
Neck length,
Shoulder thickness,
Shoulder width,
Length of the torso,
Width of the bust,
Bust thickness,
Waist size,
Hips,
Arm length,
Upper-arm length,
Upper-arm thickness,
Length of the forearm,
Thickness of the forearm,
Leg length,
Length of the thigh,
Thickness of the thigh,
Calf length,
Calf thickness,
Length of hands,
Hands thickness,
Foot size,

Adam's apple on / off,
Size and shape of the Adam's apple,
Breasts on / off,
Breast size and shape,
Crotch bump on / off,
Bump size and shape.




- Bionics and Cybernetics prostheses ;
Bionics are prostheses reproducing biological mechanisms, change is only aesthetic.
They have different styles and you can choose patterns, colors, materials and degree of wear and rust.
Cybernetics are more complex and contain useful gadgets, such as additional grenades or ammunition, rifles, laser weapons, energy blades or shields... Later in your travel you will be able to buy or win Cybernetics prostheses to replace your current Bionics prostheses system. But don't worry, you will still be able to modify its styles, patterns, colors, materials and degree of wear and rust, at your mothership laboratory.

You can choose and personalize every parts together or distinctively to replace nearly without limit your;

Both/Left/Right: Hand / Forearm / Elbow / Upper Arm / Shoulder.
Both/Left/Right: Hand and Forearm
Both/Left/Right: Hand, Forearm and Elbow
Both/Left/Right: Hand, Forearm, Elbow and Upper-arm.
Both/Left/Right: Hand, Forearm, Elbow, Upper Arm, and Shoulder.

Both/Left/Right: Foot / Calf / Knee / Thigh.
Both/Left/Right: Foot and Calf.
Both/Left/Right: Foot, Calf and Knee.
Both/Left/Right: Foot, Calf, Knee and Thigh.

(You can't have parts of protheses side to side without having also protheses up to the end of the member. Example; You can have prostheses to hand, Elbow, and Shoulder of the same arm, or on both, but you can't have prostheses to Shoulder and Upper-arm without having also prostheses to Elbow, Forearm and Hand.
"Sorry, impossible request, the amount of flesh lost in the same place was too important, the nano-surgeons could not save the rest of your limb and had to put a prosthesis on what was left.")

Each parts have a set of different styles, you can change patterns, colors, materials and degree of wear and rust.


- Body decorations and jewelry :

Piercings; You can add as many as you like. With different styles, that you can turn and move around the body and choose colors and materials.

Tattoos / Fur Dyeing/ Scarification; You can add as many as you like. Of different predefined styles or your own creations, that you can turn and move around the face and change the size, colors and opacity.

Scars; You can add as many as you like. With different styles, that you can turn and move around the face and change the size, color and opacity (Still nearly same system than D.A.I.).

Cybernetic implants; Adding options.With different styles, you can choose patterns, colors, materials, degree of wear and rust and their position.



Hairs and facial hairs :
Can be change everytime you are in your mothership during the game.
- A complete advanced hair customization set, Never seen yet;
A basic with predefined commons and originals haircuts,
With for each haircut a set of different decorations, from which you can choose colors and materials.
An advanced, with a haircut divided in 5 parts ;
Neck.
Left side. Center. Right side.
Forehead.
Letting to players the liberty of a complete customization of their haicut.
With a lot of different styles for each parts, from which you can choose lenght, patterns and colors.
And each part style has its own set of different decorations, from which you can choose colors and materials.
- A complete advanced facial hair customization set,
A basic with predefined commons and originals facial haircuts,
With for each facial haircut a set of different decorations, from which you can choose colors and materials.
An advanced, with a facial haircut divided in 4 parts ;
Left side. Mustache. Right side.
Chin.
Letting to players the liberty of a complete customization of their facial haircut.
With a lot of different styles for each parts, from which you can choose lenght, patterns and colors.
And each part style has its own set of different decorations, from which you can choose colors and materials.

Face :

- The degree of hybridation: From a more human face, to a total animal face.

- Coloration of facial skin, fur, plumage or scales : To highlight or obscure the visage of your character, or a dyed system, like in SWTOR, allowing graying to age the character.

- A complete facial advanced customization set: Dragon Age or Aion like; Cheeks, Brow, Nose/Proboscis, Mouth, Wrinkles, etc... with;

Eyes:
Both eyes / left eye / right eye;
Wheels to turn between different shapes.
Wheels to turn between different positions and distances.
A set of different level of damage; from intact, to a gaping hole (cf. Carl Grimes in The Walking Dead).
Color and size of Retina and Iris.
Wheels to turn between different retina shapes (between human and animal; feline, reptilian...)

Both eyebrows / left eyebrow / right eyebrow;
A set of different level of damage; from intact, to tear out.
A set of decorations and jewelry from which you can choose colors and materials.

Ears:
Both ears / left ear / right ear;
Wheels to turn between different shapes.
Wheels to turn between different positions and axes, inward / outward, up / down, forward / backward.
A choice of color/dyed, different fur styles for furry hybrids (like Lynx hairs)
A large set of decorations and jewelry from which you can choose colors and materials.
A set of different levels of damage; from intact, to totally shredded, through a real gruyere pierced by plumb.

- Other Facial decorations and jewelry :

Makeup; Possibility to change makeup styles, color and opacity of;
Eyes contouring for Both/Left/Right,
Eyelashes for B/L/R,
Eyelids for B/L/R,
Eyebrows for B/L/R,
Cheekbones for B/L/R,
Cheeks for B/L/R
Mouth
(Nearly like in Dragon Age Inquisition).

Piercings; You can add as many as you like. With different styles, that you can turn and move around the face and choose colors and materials.

Headband and Tiara; Going over or under the hair. With different styles, you can choose patterns, colors, materials, and their position.

Glasses , Monocle and Eye patch; With different styles, you can choose patterns, colors, materials, and their position.

Tattoos / Fur Pigmentation/ Scarification; You can add as many as you like. Of different predefined styles or your own creations, that you can turn and move around the face and change the size, colors and opacity.

Scars; You can add as many as you like. With different styles, that you can turn and move around the face and change the size, color and opacity (Still nearly same system than D.A.I.).

Cybernetic implants; Adding options.With different styles, you can choose patterns, colors, materials, degree of wear and rust and their position.


Skin, Fur, Plumes, and Scales:
- Skin, fur, plumes, and scales density, patterns and colors.
- Size of fur hairs, Short hair // Angora.
- Body hairs for humans.


Species-Specific Miscellany :
- Tails, On // Off, patterns and colors. A wheel between, short fur hair or angora / fluffy,
With a set of different decorations, from which you can choose colors and materials.
- Beak, Snout, Trunks, Teeth, Horns etc...
Size and colors.
Different styles (shapes and quantity)
And each style has its own set of different decorations, from which you can choose colors and materials.

Genital Gender (biological sex):

-Male, female or hermaphrodite,
Defined by your choices On / Off during body creation.
You can change it, but any changement will redefined these parameters.
You can use this tool to quickly choose or change the sex of your character.


Identification Gender (presentation/identity):

-Male, female, gender fluid, not gendered, non-binary, etc... or Other [ ...Completed... ]
Defined by you, ticking a box between the first ones or completing yourself the last.

Age:

An average age based on level of wrinkles and grayings you give to your character during facial, hair, skin/fur/scales/plumage customisation.
You can adjust it as you please, but after 5 years of gap with the average age given by system, it will begin to redefine these parameters.
You can use this tool to quickly choose or change the age of your character.

Background :
-Something like in Nerverwinter, where you can choose a "Tribe" and your background.
Place of Birth.
Born Free // Enslaved.
Family situation // Type of work as a slave.
Global family relationship // Global relationship with other slaves.
Average age of emancipation from family cocoon // Average age of legal gain of freedom / Average age of escape from slavery.

" Social dynamics/politics would probably be different in the 24th century, but perhaps a character's origin (or lineage if born in System 3) would affects how other characters interact with them?"

Gait and Posture:
Can be change at anytime during the game.

- A variation between Manish // Womanish ( Feet and knees turned Outward // Inward ). Something like Dragon's Dogma system.
- A variation between Introverted // Extroverted ( Head down and shoulders forward // Head up and shoulders open to the back )
- A variation between Nonchalant // Aggressive ( Bust back, pelvis and legs forward and arms relaxed // Bust forward, pelvis back and arms in offensive position .Cf; DC Universe Online, male flirty personality // primal personality )

Personnality:

-A set of questions of moral and social nature, aiming to establish a personality on which the NPCs can react, and which other players will be able to consult (if you leave it public)
-This set will be completed by a summary of your choices during your quests and adventures. Having the same function with NPC's and other players. Giving the possibility to make evolve your character's moral values and personality, starting at the beginning of the game.
(Something close to the SWTOR system of crewmates)

Voice :

Choose an accent, Indian, Italian, Chinese, French, British etc...
Choose a type of speech, Rude, Familiar, Common, Elegant, Sustained
Customize your voice tone with an equalizer and auto-tune system (Bass / Acute, Hoarse / Clear, Manish / Womanish, Young / Old)

Style customization :

Clothes;

An APB reloaded sytem of clothes craft, with predefined shapes and styles, you can editing patterns, colors, materials, length of Both/Left/Right Sleeve/Pant-Sleeve, usury and adding predefined or custom "stickers".

Accessories;

A large set of rings, bracelets and neckplaces of different styles, you can choose colors, materials, positions and overlay them.

Jetpack;
Different styles and you can choose patterns, colors, materials and degree of usury and rust.[/SIZE]

atubaboun
10-28-2018, 11:56 PM
I don't know if this has been posted before, i haven't been on the forum for a while

About hybridization, there could be a list of DNA origin sliders to chose from and you could get to chose what percentage of each would compose your genome up to a total of 100% with a minimum of about 50% human. And each DNA sliders would have different sets of stats, Homo sapiens being the base with balanced stats, Or there could be different skills that require a certain amount of DNA percentage from a given slider, like 95% humans not being discriminated in higher class environments.

About the choice of species to pick from, there's so much that actually reasoning in species might result in some being overrepresented over others.
Instead of species, they could think in terms of genus or family, and then give the player customization options inspired from some of the family's species.
For example if the player chooses to get 50% DNA from the Panthera genus slider, he gets access to Mane, spots and stripes, and a certain range of body colors and shapes.

I'm just throwing ideas here.Besides, maybe the team is already done with character creation.

Gguywesker101
11-05-2018, 08:29 PM
Character customization increases a game's lifespan by an insane amount, and the more in depth it is, the bigger the effect, just look at games like fallout 4, saints row (2-4) , skyrim. I once played a game for 6 years straight cause i was able to make so many cool characters, all of which looked different from each other.

I'd personally suggest adding like a good selection of facial hair for males, along with some hairstyles for male humans (Straight long hair (long as in to the middle of ones back) , curvy long hair, curvy medium hair (about down to your shoulders), straight medium hair, mohawks, ponytails (the regular down facing ponytail), shaved haircuts, dreadlocks. You would be shocked just how much of a difference variety in hair and facial hair can make.

scorcher64
11-11-2018, 01:30 AM
A lot of people have summed up pretty much everything I wish to add in character customization and the intricate detail put into manipulating each part of the body.

One game I played in the past with a nice character customization I haven't seen posted here is APB Reloaded. This is the only game I can think of that has a tattoo-creation area set up like your typical picture-editing program, where you can design your own tattoo from the ground up and choose where on the body you would like to put it. That feature also allows you to design the clothes and vehicles with logos as well. There are plenty of vids on YouTube you can check out, but here is one I wish to share:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhOTrc5554

malicious232
11-11-2018, 03:07 AM
I don't know whats going on here, but the little-person inside of a mechsuit with that background concept art.

https://i.imgur.com/TOXb5Sw.jpg


Please let this be available in character customization. I mean it could open new avenues for gameplay. small player hops out of exoskeleton to reach places others cannot. trouble happens and player suits up. player placing the exosuit on a stationary "defend" command while player takes a look around,ect.

douglas4202002
12-03-2018, 06:40 AM
Choice is always a good option with that I ask are hybrids a forced or is my story my own, if I have a choice I'd prefer human sex not an issue, if not then the I can customize the better tail's even claws or hoof should be included it would be awesome to be able to work on every aspect of my character .

Squishy20
12-04-2018, 07:46 PM
I always like it when I have different voices to choose from so that I can get one that I feel matches my character.

As for physical options, I don't get into those a lot, but if it's horns/tails/furs/thing like that I do like to have the ability to customize.

Legion-495
12-04-2018, 09:44 PM
Choice is always a good option with that I ask are hybrids a forced or is my story my own, if I have a choice I'd prefer human sex not an issue, if not then the I can customize the better tail's even claws or hoof should be included it would be awesome to be able to work on every aspect of my character .

Tails/hoofs/horns/furs. We need ehm ;)

sdash2006
12-11-2018, 11:07 PM
I really want different loc/dreadlock hair style options. Locs have become a very popular hair style and statement in the african american culture. Its shows true pride and true appreciation of self and respect of the culture and its history. Locs are one of the oldest hairstyles worn by ancient civilizations. A Lot of games either do not do the hairstyle justices or have the hairstyle in the game at all. So I ask please be the first to truly represent the loc culture in this game by having different locs styles ie, long locs, short locs, free form locs, thin locs and different loc braids and twist like the barrel twist . I did see that there was a hybrid lion with free from locs so I assume there will be at least one loc style. So please expand on this with different variations of locs.Thank you for developing the game that I always dreamed of

JayAzurehide
12-13-2018, 12:59 AM
Some of the basics like age, height, weight, body proportional shifting, ect. But what could be really cool is being able to add tattoos or hair dyes for the characters Like, for a Lizard, s/he has only a few scales colored differently to make shapes or stripes. Another one would be some of the more furred characters being able to dye parts of their arms or legs, or even have patches of missing skin from a burn or cut. Tattoos would be kinda tricky since it would have to be on visible skin, but i think that it could be easily worked around by the abrasions. Those open patches that would expose the skin underneath could be tattooed upon.

Another thing could be piercing options too. Some of the piercing placements can be obvious like the lips or the eyebrows; but what would be really cool is, for example, the beak of a bird having a metal plate over it, or perhaps the tiger has a crown on one of the incisors.

SaintHedgehog
12-18-2018, 01:51 AM
Height
Adjustable Body sizes

Bunkerzakky2sa
12-26-2018, 09:25 AM
Maybe, just because it will make you get a hair cut or restyle it there can be hair and facial hair that can grow like in red dead redemption I think it would make it really feel like you were on a planet and the days were going by

trigger411
01-17-2019, 09:01 PM
as a huge fan of the original Beyond good and Evil i'm really disappointed with what I've seen so far. Beyond good and evil was an amazing story driven game with heavy stealth elements which focused on a girl trying to find herself and save her planet, from an alien invasion and a corrupt government. honestly i would like it if you changed the name of this game to Beyond good and evil space monkey or something else cause this is no a squeal to the original in any way or form.

i mean if you really like the product your making and don't just want to use the name of this beloved game to score some extra attention please give it another name. Everything you've showed so far is a complete contradiction to the game people love.