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View Full Version : [WARRIOR DEN] Realistic Mode vs Cheaters



We.the.North
12-23-2017, 06:08 AM
Dar Ubisoft,

I have a question for the next Warrior's Den. I know the subject isn't sexy since it involves cheating and the failure of Easy Anticheat to detect it ... I'm pretty sure you'll ignore it, but anyway : here goes.

I play on PC on what I assume to be a decently high MMR. At this level, I frequently encounter players with lets call it a "god mode switch". Those players, often Wardens, will suddenly go full on defensive mode and no matter what you do to them, they will Parry / Counter Guardbreak / Dodge anything you throw at them. I've had players on my friend list openly confide in me they are using AUTOBLOCK BOTS and AUTO GUARDBREAK BOTS from time to time.

The way those bots work is with pixel recognition. In other words, when the bot sees a red indicator on the screen or the broken shield, they block / counter guardbreak perfectly.

The one thing I have noticed is : those cheaters are screwed when you guys bring the realistic game mode because there are no red pixel for their Bots to recognized. In short, Realistic Mode is the one mode where cheaters dont go.

Can we please get a permanent realistic mode in the game ?? I'm sick of facing cheaters.

Thank you.

We.the.North
12-31-2017, 07:51 AM
Another evening of gaming, more people counter guardbreaking my stealth Shinobi from behind while engaged with one of my teamate ...

For **** SAKE Ubiosft, give us a permanent realistic mode already so we can be RID of those pixel recognition cheaters. Getting blocked / cgb 100% of the time successfully is fishy and just a big fun killer.

Never had this problem in realistic.

I have a list of 20 names I now just instantly quit against because it's that obvious they are cheating. No, I wont do your job for you and report them with video proof and everything, nor will I name them here because it's against forum rules. Just ****in give us Realistic mode permanent and it'll fix all the problems. Easy Anti-cheat just doesn't work.

OneTrueAlca
12-31-2017, 12:10 PM
Would like to see it happen as well. Realistic completely gets rid of turtle meta and makes it very challenging, its not even hard to deal with light spammers once you're used to it. ppl are relying on indicators too much and it made the game too easy, as a result everyone just turtle

Realistic is how the way For Honor should have went. Indicators is for noobs

CandleInTheDark
12-31-2017, 03:12 PM
Two practical issues I can see with it, firstly the comment that even light spam is not difficult to deal with once you are used to it, people, or at least the people who complain about characters, don't get used to them first, it's been a common theme in the past ten or so months that at least 50% of raised issues are learn to play, people will get all the more salty over light spam and the more vocal crowd will call it an assassin buff.

The other is 1vx, people complain about being 1vx as it is, if you're removing indicators, that includes people to the side of you while you're focussing on the guy attacking you and that is supposing they are standing in camera shot and are not behind you.

I have played zero indicators in how to play, I could possibly get used to it within a couple hours, I have 500-600 hours on monster hunter so it is a thing I have practice in as there are no indicators there you go entirely on the tells of the monster you are fighting, but I would guess 70-90% of the player base won't put in that effort and will just rant here, on steam and reddit.

Rye.Bread.
12-31-2017, 03:24 PM
Two practical issues I can see with it, firstly the comment that even light spam is not difficult to deal with once you are used to it, people, or at least the people who complain about characters, don't get used to them first, it's been a common theme in the past ten or so months that at least 50% of raised issues are learn to play, people will get all the more salty over light spam and the more vocal crowd will call it an assassin buff.

The other is 1vx, people complain about being 1vx as it is, if you're removing indicators, that includes people to the side of you while you're focussing on the guy attacking you and that is supposing they are standing in camera shot and are not behind you.

I have played zero indicators in how to play, I could possibly get used to it within a couple hours, I have 500-600 hours on monster hunter so it is a thing I have practice in as there are no indicators there you go entirely on the tells of the monster you are fighting, but I would guess 70-90% of the player base won't put in that effort and will just rant here, on steam and reddit.

Many good points, to be sure, but...

I have practice in as there are no indicators there you go entirely on the tells of the monster you are fighting
I as well have lots of experience in monster hunter games, however, many of the faster characters in For Honor just don't have tells or have them too fast. In MH, it's always a decent timing that lets you think and react to the attack- it is always your fault if you get hit because you were properly informed. The thing about the new light spam meta is it is simply too fast for that.

I always wanted a slower, more strategic combat from For Honor; with that, no indicators would be perfect... unfortunately we have the spam meta.
https://i.imgur.com/GTakHyy.png

CandleInTheDark
12-31-2017, 03:32 PM
Many good points, to be sure, but...

I as well have lots of experience in monster hunter games, however, many of the faster characters in For Honor just don't have tells or have them too fast. In MH, it's always a decent timing that lets you think and react to the attack- it is always your fault if you get hit because you were properly informed. The thing about the new light spam meta is it is simply too fast for that.

I always wanted a slower, more strategic combat from For Honor; with that, no indicators would be perfect... unfortunately we have the spam meta.
https://i.imgur.com/GTakHyy.png

Well yeah pretty good point in that they are slower, I don't think it is a direct correlation, it was more an in theory it is possible. I think a lot of the kits need, in the reworks, to have spam directly nerfed along with making using the full kit more viable.

I think it would be doable with practice and as you say spam is a thing that would need balancing, but I said the same over zone when people were complaining and the answer I got was who has time to practice.

bob333e
12-31-2017, 04:12 PM
The complete removal of the Stance Widget, to combat a few cheaters, will negatively impact most of the playerbase. The learning curve will become a huge uphill jogging effort while also pushing a boulder up the hill with your hands. That's how it'll feel like with the current already-existing issues (connectivity, character balancing, bugs, etc).

@Candle and RyeBread I also play MH, specifically MH4U on 3DS. In MH, everything is so surgically precise. If you do get hit, it's purely your fault (unless you're doing co-op and the whole quest was laggy over a bad transcontinental connection). In MH you're trained to dodge on time, focus purely on counters, and memorize the monster's movesets. In G-Rank, you have no choice. One hit and most of your HP is gone, that's considering the monster isn't even Apex :p

Skill-wise, MH forges a much better learning curve and progression tree. In no way it can be compared to For Honor. If anything, I'd compare For Honor to Mortal Kombat. Combos, environmental hazards, environmental kills, fatality finishers ('executions'), special abilities (energy blast, throwing knives, they work like 'feats'), and so on. Still, For Honor remains vastly different than Mortal Kombat, and in that stance, balancing in For Honor is way harder.

We.the.North
12-31-2017, 08:42 PM
Who said anything about getting rid of normal Dominion ?? Let the cheaters, the light spam cry babies and the players worried about external attacks in ganks play normal Dominion.

All I asked for is to make Realistic Dominion a permanent mode because right now, the 100% counter guardbreak meta at my MMR is more than fishy, ESPECIALLY since I have people on my friend list openly admit on Discord they are using those kind of scripts so they never miss a counter guardbreak.

In other words, the only real downside to what I'm asking is that it's going to make matchmaking a little longer since we'd be adding another game mode. But honestly, with half my games being paired with Bots even in Dominion against people with huge gaps in skills makes you wonder if matchmaking is worth protecting at all.

It's as if you guys are trying way to hard to find negative comments to make sure nothing is done to fight cheating in this game. Easy Anti-Cheat simply does not work. It's enough of an issue to annoy the hell out of me.

Vakris_One
12-31-2017, 08:50 PM
A permanent realistic mode sounds cool. The only concern is that it might divide the playerbase a bit too much.

In the meantime though I don't understand why you don't just report all these so called people in your friends list for using these bot hacks. Even if it only gets one of them banned then that's at least one less cheater ruining the gane for the rest of us.

We.the.North
12-31-2017, 08:56 PM
A permanent realistic mode sounds cool. The only concern is that it might divide the playerbase a bit too much.

That's my concern too. Even tho Ubisoft loudly say the game isn't dead and millions of people are playing daily, the fact remains matchmaking is atrocious. It takes minutes to find a match, crash half the time in the lobby for lack of players and you end up either joining a game in progress or a new game with 2+ bots often both on the same team.

But no, MILLIONS of players are playing daily.



In the meantime though I don't understand why you don't just report all these so called people in your friends list for using these bot hacks. Even if it only gets one of them banned then that's at least one less cheater ruining the gane for the rest of us.

2 reasons :

First : I like playing with them even if they cheat because they have a fun personality. I wouldn't want to see my friends banned permanently. Friendship > Video gaming experience. I also wouldn't have any kind of proof to submit Ubisoft since they admited it over Discord, using their voice (so no screenshots available).

Second : Because I face at least 1 cheater every 2-3 games. The problem is so widely spread that reporting them with video proof and everything, one by one, would take forever and wont really fix the problem. It will just annoy me even more to have to do Ubisoft's job for them. Just look at the spam on these forums, do you really think they can fix cheating in this game ??

TLDR : The only real easy to implement solution is to make a permanent Realistic Dominion mode.

bob333e
12-31-2017, 09:09 PM
Let's suppose they make a perma-realistic Dominion; what's keeping the players from raising the incentive to divide even more into perma-realistic Duel, Skirmish, Elimination, Brawl, Tribute? it will spin a rather unfavorable wheel. It will literally dissect the entire playerbase into small clumps and will eventually lead to ultimately killing the PvP connectivity in For Honor, if you think about it long-term.

I understood that you initially meant for an entirely new game mode. My argument was two-fold. First it will spike the difficulty setting of For Honor to unprecedented levels, and second, you won't have enough players playing this mode. You'll literally bump into the same guys every 2 matches. Bet you no one will want a Dominion without the Stance Widget where they cannot even see external attacks. Soon enough the game mode will die and what would that solve in the end?

I'd rather they implement a stronger cheat detection system. Something that will scan codes, macros, and the like. I know it's far-fetched, but that's the best solution to combating hackers. You're right, reporting players takes an eternity of 'proof' and 'data' to finally get Ubisoft to do something about it, but what else can we do. Best advice I can give, is to keep making noise about it on forums, for the devs to finally take attention. Here, Reddit, Steam.

The idea of a perma-realistic Dominion is still bad though. It really won't help the playerbase on the long run.

Vakris_One
12-31-2017, 09:24 PM
2 reasons :

First : I like playing with them even if they cheat because they have a fun personality. I wouldn't want to see my friends banned permanently.

Second : Because I face at least 1 cheater every 2-3 games. The problem is so widely spread that reporting them with video proof and everything, one by one, would take forever and wont really fix the problem. It will just annoy me even more to have to do Ubisoft's job for them. Just look at the spam on these forums, do you really think they can fix cheating in this game ??

TLDR : The only real easy to implement solution is to make a permanent Realistic Dominion mode.
So you're okay with your friends cheating because they're your friends but it annoys you that other people cheat because they aren't your friends. That's some nice double standards there. You do realise that your friends are sh**ing on the game by doing this and are making it worse for everyone including you to play.

Making a permanent realistic mode is only a band aid on a gaping wound if the cheaters aren't stopped/removed. They'll still be there making the rest of the modes hell for everyone else who likes to play them. You want the problem fixed because it obviously ruins your fun as well but you:

1) don't want to get your cheating friends banned even though they're harming the game you apparently like to play

2) don't want to do anything yourself to help lower the amount of cheaters that are ruining your fun.

You are being very selfish and actually self-defeating with this approach. Basically you're saying screw everyone else except me and my friends who like to cheat.

The only way this will get better is if all the cheaters are shown the door dude. Making a mode where cheaters can't use that particular hack is still leaving the rest of the game open for them to abuse to their heart's content. This game's not going to survive if only one type of mode is left playable because we left the rest of it to hackers who just want to crap on us.

We.the.North
12-31-2017, 09:25 PM
There never were any events with realistic duel / brawl / tribute / skirmish / deathmatch. Ubisoft can use this argument quite easily to just add a realistic dominion and nothing else.

The other solution would be to make all ranked mode realistic. Maybe people would play those modes more, I know I would. Those mode were litteraly SWARMED with cheaters / turtlers. Nobody plays ranked anymore.

Last, look at the time frame. We're nearly one year into For Honor and no decent cheat detection is in place. Asking for a better anti-cheat system is wishful thinking. We need something that we know will work (no pixel = no pixel recognition script) and that can be put in the game within weeks, not months.

Vakris_One
12-31-2017, 09:30 PM
You know realistic modes aside, it strikes me that the easiest solution of all is to just implement a block feature in-game. That way those of us who don't want to play with hackers can just block them and eventually this will leave them to just fight against each other until they get bored or get banned.

Job done.

We.the.North
12-31-2017, 09:34 PM
You know realistic modes aside, it strikes me that the easiest solution of all is to just implement a block feature in-game. That way those of us who don't want to play with hackers can just block them and eventually this will leave them to just fight against each other until they get bored or get banned.

Job done.

That would actually work. I could block those I come across most often and then, cheating would because less and less of a thing in the games I play.

It would also help Ubisoft to identify those cheaters more easily. They could compile Data about how often someone is blocked from a game he tries to join and investigate those who get blocked often.

bob333e
12-31-2017, 09:36 PM
There never were any events with realistic duel / brawl / tribute / skirmish / deathmatch. Ubisoft can use this argument quite easily to just add a realistic dominion and nothing else.

The other solution would be to make all ranked mode realistic. Maybe people would play those modes more, I know I would.

Last, look at the time frame. We're nearly one year into For Honor and no decent cheat detection is in place. Asking for a better anti-cheat system is wishful thinking. We need something that we know will work (no pixel = no pixel recognition script) and that can be put in the game within weeks, not months.

And then once this mode is added; what then? what did they solve. As Vakris pointed out, it's a very temporary bandaid. It won't 'fix' anything. Hackers will also eventually find their way around the absence of a Stance Widget, because that's what they excel at: hacking. Which will render perma-realistic Dominion obsolete, and which will leave the playerbase forever split.

Vakris also made a valid point. Just because someone is your friend, doesn't mean you encourage them to keep on hacking. You should report them just the same, should they fail to stop with the hacks. Only, they don't have to know who reported them.

With Ubisoft, any solid long-term fixes are wishful thinking. For Honor's problems didn't stop with bot hacks. Lots of things that have lingered on since launch, are only being addressed now. There's definitely hope for a much better cheat detection system.

On PS4, I easily block a lagswitcher on PSN once I meet one. I never meet them again. A blocking feature can definitely help.