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View Full Version : Improvements to classical gameplay



Buillermozh
12-21-2017, 05:34 PM
I've played a lot to 1701 and especially 1404 versions. A litlle 2070 which I liked less. Didn't try 2205 due to very negative reviews.
All I read about 1800 in the DevBlogs looks great, and I do hope and think that dev team will bring us a very good iteration of the game by trying to take the best of all versions.

So I'd like to share some improvements that the game could benefit :

1 - Having a "logic" pyramid of population distribution.

In 1404, as you progress you end up with having let say roughly about 70% Noble - 15% Patrician - 10% Citizen - 5% Peasant
It should be the opposite ! As in "real life".
You can keep the gameplay evolution like it is without needing to upgrade all your population to the upper tier.
I think it will also lead to have more real city layout with a nice city center for the upper tier and large suburbs for bottom tier.

2 - Simplier way to know what you need to produce and what you consume

Some people had to develop the 1404 production calculator so that we can know how many production chains are required !
It should definitely be one way or another possible to get the info directly ingame. Through something like the Baliwick building in 1404 maybe.
If you don't have that you must constantly look at your storage for each good to see if it goes up or down, Which is a useless pain.

3 - Clear info on production buildings input and output capacities

A little linked and comparable to previous point. You shouldn't have to go to a wiki site to know that the linen production building needs 2 hemp yards !

Here are for the points which I think are much needed. I'd like to add a wish :

4 - Link population to production sites

This may be more difficult to implement but would be so much better.
Each peasant should work to a farm / tier 1 production building. And so on for next tier population and buildings
You could therefore also have to manage unemployement
When you settle an island just to farm/mine, you would have to build a small basic city to support tier 1 population.
If you want to build next tier buildings on that island, you would also have to upgrade part of the population on that island.

Here it is, I hope that you dev would read this and wish you nice holydays.
Keep on the good work.

stylisticsagi
12-22-2017, 07:50 AM
agreed on anything.
ps point 4:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1755195-Workers-from-2205-on-diffrent-islands

banan1996.1996
12-23-2017, 09:56 PM
1. I agree. In Anno 1404 certain percentage of houses could be upgraded to the next level: 80% of peasants, 60% of citizens and 40% of patricians. For me it would be fine if that was changed to something like: 50% of peasants, 40% of citizens and 30% of patricians. Having 100 houses overall would mean having: 400 peasants (50 houses), 450 citizens (30 houses), 350 patricians (14 houses) , 240 noblemen (6 houses). Something like that would be definately more realistic. Percentage of upgradable houses needs to be significantly lowered. But after seeing the trailer I am afraid they kept those numbers close to Anno 1404.

2,3. I would like to see something like that directly in the game. Such information certainly should be available via some specific building similar to bailwick from Anno 1404 or statistics center from Anno 2070. I think that a building like City Hall could serve such a purpose, it could be the element of bureaucracy in 19th century - people note how much is consumed, how much is produced and if some goods are over- or underproduced.

4. I don't want to fall into too much micromanagement there. People should generate workforce - maybe divided into only two categories - workers and qualified employees. The first ones would work in farms, mines and factories, the others in final production buildings of higher tier goods. I think that would be enough, dividing workforce into every civilization tier would be an unnecessary mess.
I would also make workforce global. Maybe with need to transport people from home island to production island

AgmasGold
12-25-2017, 10:08 AM
In the recent AnnoCast, it looked like there was some kind of workforce system. They specifically tried to avoid showing it, and being early alpha it was re-using icons from 2205, but it had the "not enough workers" icon from 2205 over several buildings in the city. I would assume workforce would be global, or at least "Sector-wide" (as at least one other multi-session sector is confirmed, although not as many as 2205 to reduce constant changing/loading). Each sector can be entirely self sufficient, and there isn't a need to expand like in 2205, they've talked at length about how they want to avoid some of the failures of the past.

ruuti0
12-26-2017, 08:09 PM
1.

I disagree. I think best way is that you try maximize developing your society and it give more challenge do it larger every time (more nobles etc). If you turn this opposite, then it take away whole this point.

Doing this as in "real life" isn't always best for gameplay in games. Sometimes just doing opposite or different than in "real life" is just better and I think Anno developers got that right in 1404/2070.

In my opinion society in Anno series simple just look much better when most of them advance to next level and you try maximize that development and that makes cities look better.



2 & 3 Still disagree, I think that this is one of things that makes Anno so interesting, it is challenging and you have to optimize each goods and things for each situation. Thats why I hope they don't change this. If they make it too easy, it become boring.



4. This one I agree. This could be really good. It would make more challenge and more different options to play game. But I am afraid also that implementhing this to Anno 1800 could be just too much work to do.

AgmasGold
12-27-2017, 02:05 PM
Relevant DevBlog: https://www.anno-union.com/en/devblog-truth-or-fiction/

Mushie_
12-27-2017, 03:32 PM
1. I disagree - the numbers are put into the game so that all the achievements are accessible. From the number of houses required to unlock the next set of buildings to some of the achievements in the game. For example in 1404 one achievement was to reach 10,000 noblemen - using the 80% peasant, 60% citizen, 40% patrician ratios you would need in total about 1302 houses - which is a lot but it's possible considering you would also need a lot of islands for all the production. If you used 50% peasants, 40% citizens and 30% patricians that someone had suggested you would need about 4167 houses, when considering all the other product to support that it could get ludicrous to obtain. I do agree it would look more realistic to have a much higher percentage of the lower tier houses but unfortunately I don't think it would work out for the gameplay.

2 & 3 I agree with those, makes sense to have the information available instead of having to look it up. Maybe having the bailiwick as a late game option that has the production calculator in one of the menus when you open it up. As I got more comfortable with the games I always had to play them in windowed mode so I could more easily tab out to the production calculator which meant I didn't get to enjoy the full screen graphics often.

4. I'm not a big fan of having to build small settlements on production islands, from another thread (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1755195-Workers-from-2205-on-diffrent-islands) I liked the idea of being able to ship worked from your main island to production islands though. Keeps with the idea of having a workforce for production buildings implemented into the game without sacrificing the space on the island dedicated to producing materials for the population.

banan1996.1996
12-28-2017, 02:19 PM
1. I disagree - the numbers are put into the game so that all the achievements are accessible. From the number of houses required to unlock the next set of buildings to some of the achievements in the game. For example in 1404 one achievement was to reach 10,000 noblemen - using the 80% peasant, 60% citizen, 40% patrician ratios you would need in total about 1302 houses - which is a lot but it's possible considering you would also need a lot of islands for all the production. If you used 50% peasants, 40% citizens and 30% patricians that someone had suggested you would need about 4167 houses, when considering all the other product to support that it could get ludicrous to obtain. I do agree it would look more realistic to have a much higher percentage of the lower tier houses but unfortunately I don't think it would work out for the gameplay.


In my opinion society in Anno series simple just look much better when most of them advance to next level and you try maximize that development and that makes cities look better.

Achievements are adjusted to the percentages rather than the opposite. Of course with numbers I proposed the achievement would require having (for example) 2500 noblemen instead of 10000.

Maybe you're right that it wouldn't be good for the gameplay. I would still appreciate smaller changes to make it a bit more realistic. What about increasing the number of people of lower tiers living in one house? 10 peasants instead of 8, 20 citizens instead of 15 or something similar. Not changing the percentage of upgradable houses but making those smaller houses more crowded. Something like that wouldn't change how your city looks but still made the game a bit more realistic. It's just weird for me seeing 10000 noblemen in the city and almost no peasants. I don't want drastic changes so that we have 5 noblemen per 100 peasants (which would be far more realistic) but just making it look a bit better so having 10000 noblemen but also at least 1000 peasants.



2 & 3 Still disagree, I think that this is one of things that makes Anno so interesting, it is challenging and you have to optimize each goods and things for each situation. Thats why I hope they don't change this. If they make it too easy, it become boring.

It should be totally optional, you don't have to use it. It also could be a late game option which needs to be reasearched so that it's not easy to obtain. I agree that in the beginning of the game you have to think how to make everything working together and still earn money. In the late game though, with all these trade routes and many goods, it's terrible for me to always remember to check out if I don't need more fish again while focusing on more advanced goods. Also it takes too much time for me to check if I really need to produce more of something when I have a long-distance trade route and I have to wait for three deliveries to be sure if I need more.

Another thing is: many players just use production calculators or information from wiki to know how much they need to produce. Such information should be available in-game without the need to alt-tab to a production calculator - it's just disturbs the flow of the game.

Mushie_
12-28-2017, 06:05 PM
You absolutely could change the achievement to get fewer noblemen but I think there must have been some give and take when deciding what the achievement was instead of basing them entirely on the percentages. I feel that 10000 seemed like a "nicer" round number to go for they probably wanted a realistic way of achieving it, not that 2500 wouldn't have worked if they had gone for different percentages. I think it would work well to have more people in the lower tier houses to give more for the higher tier with lower percentages - the only problem then would be needing fewer of the lower tier houses to unlock each production chain but that could easily be balanced by making them require more people to unlock the chain! :)

ruuti0
12-28-2017, 07:29 PM
1)
Maybe you're right that it wouldn't be good for the gameplay. I would still appreciate smaller changes to make it a bit more realistic. What about increasing the number of people of lower tiers living in one house? 10 peasants instead of 8, 20 citizens instead of 15 or something similar. Not changing the percentage of upgradable houses but making those smaller houses more crowded. Something like that wouldn't change how your city looks but still made the game a bit more realistic. It's just weird for me seeing 10000 noblemen in the city and almost no peasants. I don't want drastic changes so that we have 5 noblemen per 100 peasants (which would be far more realistic) but just making it look a bit better so having 10000 noblemen but also at least 1000 peasants.




2) It should be totally optional, you don't have to use it. It also could be a late game option which needs to be reasearched so that it's not easy to obtain. I agree that in the beginning of the game you have to think how to make everything working together and still earn money. In the late game though, with all these trade routes and many goods, it's terrible for me to always remember to check out if I don't need more fish again while focusing on more advanced goods. Also it takes too much time for me to check if I really need to produce more of something when I have a long-distance trade route and I have to wait for three deliveries to be sure if I need more.


1) I think that is better idea, IF you really have to change it to more realistic. Personally it doesn't bother me how it is currently. In my opinion best games are always mix reality and fiction, if game gets too realistic it usually it can easily get too hard or too boring to play, too much fiction ain't too good either (its good to have some sort of physics rules at least). Anno series has been pretty decent to find "happy medium". I personally feel that cities in Anno games just look much better when most of city is developed to maximum state rather than having only few maximum level society houses and a lot of "peasants", but I don't see it as problem either if developers change number how many residents each house has either. I think (might be wrong) current value is symbolic so players would get feeling that number of residents is really getting bigger fast and that players can reach real "megacities"/real big societys when it came to residents.


2) I personally think it is part of skill in Anno series that you can estimate how much goods you need in each situation. If there would be calculator in game, it could reach to situation where everybody is forced to use it on multiplayer games so other players won't get unfair advantage. Though have to admit that player could use it anyway with alt+tab to use another calculator if game doesn't have one, but I am afraid that having it on engine itself would cause easier temptation to take advantage of it on multiplayer games.