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View Full Version : I would like some help/ clarification



THE_MAD_KlNG
12-20-2017, 11:05 PM
So I just played 3 tournaments and every time I lost a fight it was due because of the shaman. I'm not going to sit here and say the shaman overpowered because I don't believe she is. But what I do believe is every jumping attack she does can be cancelled and that's what makes us so crazy to fight against. It is crazy cuz I don't know what she's going to do she can jump at me cancel it mid-jump so I dodged and grabbed me she can do a jump when she grabs and tears my neck out stop mid thing while I dodge and do it again immediately afterwards and grab me. Every time I fight a shaman they're always doing the back step to gain distance just so they can cancel it and gain more distance so they can just eventually do a swing or something. It's so crazy to deal with the lawbringer can't do a shove that cancels into a into a heavy that flies out of nowhere and If it all misses you can punish it. The valkyrie can't do a shield Bash that cancels it and do a guard break mid dash she can't cancel it and do it again. Take away her cancel it will make her so much easier to deal with and fight against. Keep her bleed keep her health gain during blood trance. Keep her fast attacks if your getting hit by them it's because you didn't block. But because I have to guess every time she does a jumping attack on what it's going to be it destroys the mechanics of the game it makes me unable to fight against her. That's just my two cents in the subject I'm tired of being cheated out of wins in tournaments because I don't know and have no way of knowing what she's going to do next.

She also seems to have kind of a splash effect on her jumps when she grabs you and when she gives a heavy it seems to hit me even when I dodge sometimes kind of like his own attack it's weird that's just me.

bob333e
12-20-2017, 11:16 PM
I'm assuming you're referring to Shaman's Predator's Mercy, or pounce for short? because her actual jumping heavy cannot be cancelled.

To note, Predator's Mercy cannot be cancelled mid-air, just at the beginning, although the unblockable icon will still flash.

As for the splash effect, if you're too close you cannot dodge her arms (you can dodge her body, but not her wide-open arms) hence why you get hit with it. The hitbox collision registers soon as her arms hit your character, not her body.
I don't know if assassins can manage with far better dodge attacks, I don't main assassins myself.

If you've been bled, and your opponent cancelled Predator's Mercy, they probably don't know what they're doing; there's no better punish than Predator's Mercy. However if you haven't been bled, and your opponent cancels the headbutt (it's the same move but it's a headbutt when there is no bleed) then you should probably expect a heavy or a zone (which then gets soft-feinted into bleed attack, depending if your opponent is really good with Shaman).

Nevertheless, Shaman's entire kit relies on landing bleed attacks just so she can open Predator's Mercy, albeit doing that in an advanced way by allowing soft-feints on a lot of things. Predator's Mercy is very punishable, even moreso than Shugoki's Demon Embrace (without taking into consideration the self-punish), because you can hit her out of Predator's Mercy / headbutt with a quick light. She doesn't have hyperarmor on anything.

Personally, I still find her jumping attacks trickier to dodge than Predator's Mercy. Her jumping attacks have a delayed axe hitbox, plus in the midst of a fight you can't really tell whether it's going to be left or right.

When you see her crouching and sheathing her weapons, go for a quick light attack. It takes reflex and practice, and I wouldn't recommend doing Tournaments unless you feel wholly confident in dealing with most of the roster, not the least speaking, the S4 heroes.

THE_MAD_KlNG
12-21-2017, 12:17 AM
While I agree with you and most of your points they're very well thought out and good ones I don't agree with you on all. I do not think her attack is more punishable than the shugoki demon embrace. Other than the self-inflicted damage he puts on himself I can normally get a heavy and light off. If it took away all of her stamina on a miss I could see us more punishable. A good shaman if you hit you with the bleed will wait and play very defensively untill she gets that opening. she will keep on going back dodges. I just believe that she should not be able to cancel any of her jumping attacks/pounces. If she goes for it she can't stop it. Most heroes in the game if they do an attack A or B will happen. With the shaman she can do one attack and going to A B C or D. It's just a lot a lot more than most Heroes and I believe if you took away the cancel it would be much better to fight against. I do not think her bleed is a problem or her attack speed.

The last point is I feel confident fighting every other character in a tournament if I lose to Warden it's because he outplayed me if I lose to a conqueror it's because he's better than me. I'm not saying that anybody who plays the shaman is bad I'm just saying she has a lot going for her and I'm confident fighting every other character just not her. Because of her Mix-Ups.

Erhanninja
12-21-2017, 01:46 AM
I had an occasion I pressed Warden zone as soon as I see her doing her jump I couldnít escape. I donít know whatís faster then that. Also I even pressed light just before she jumpes as a Conq I couldnít punish again. Not sure how people punish that. I think I saw some people doing GB while she is in the air?