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Malyngo
12-20-2017, 09:53 PM
I just had a match with a Warden who, when I dodged his shoulder bash, immediately guard broke me.
Is this intended? Is this how it is supposed to be?

Is the only way to dodge the shoulder bash to dodge to the back, disengaging the fight?

I was playing a Warlord, if this matters.

Erhanninja
12-21-2017, 01:29 AM
Yes itís intended. A warden can cancel the vortex, turn it into GB or he can just do normal vortex. You can try to step backward but you have to time it right. He has to let it go so you can step back. If not you can disengage from the fight and roll back but it uses too much stamina where as vortex nearly costs nothing. If you are out of stamina well RIP

Malyngo
12-21-2017, 08:11 AM
So this is the only way I can deal with it, disengage?
Is there a short timewindow where I can see he will cancel, and I can react to it?

Or will I just have to check out his behaviour, and in the case of "he cancels quite often", I assume he will cancel?

Charmzzz
12-21-2017, 08:23 AM
So this is the only way I can deal with it, disengage?
Is there a short timewindow where I can see he will cancel, and I can react to it?

Or will I just have to check out his behaviour, and in the case of "he cancels quite often", I assume he will cancel?

You can always Light Attack or GB him when he starts to charge. Any 500ms Light Attack will hit him out of his Charge (which is 700ms shortest Charge). Most people try to dodge when he charges which is a big nono, although it happens to me once in a while, too.

Card1acArrest
12-21-2017, 12:40 PM
Just go on youtube and search for vortex counter..there are lots of guides.

Malyngo
12-21-2017, 03:50 PM
The guides I found on youtube basically went like: Warlord? You're ****ed.

bob333e
12-21-2017, 04:00 PM
The guides I found on youtube basically went like: Warlord? You're ****ed.

Don't go believe every single video on YT, lol. Warlord is pretty decent and I've seldom encountered a helpless Warlord unless they're newbies who don't know how to use the hero.

Disengaging and backrolling solves it instantly, and for those who tell you it costs stamina, let me answer with: vortex costs as much stamina as a roll, when it's comboed at least twice (at which point you consider backrolling), resulting in both you and the Warden having spent same stamina.

If Warden doesn't cancel into GB, you can dodge and punish. If Warden cancels into GB, you can CGB if you didn't dodge.

If you dodged and got GB'ed, it's the 50/50 scenario and it's not the worst one out there. There are far worse BS tactics from other heroes than what Warden can do.

By the time you got vortexed twice, you should make a mental note of your opponent's preferred method. Whether they just spam vortex, or whether they like to cancel into GB. And you counter from there.

And I'll put this as nicely as I can: players who get stuck in Warden's vortex every time deserve it. It's their fault, honestly. Vortex isn't that hard, really.

Malyngo
12-21-2017, 04:11 PM
And there again is this ****ty attitude which makes me wonder why I bother with this game anymore.

bob333e
12-21-2017, 04:13 PM
And there again is this ****ty attitude which makes me wonder why I bother with this game anymore.

Why, thank you. I tried to be as constructive as I could, denoting the ways you can counter a Warden. And outlining (and stressing on) that constant practice, as well as mind games, will give you the upper hand. And only you are responsible of that.

Obviously, no amount of advice can convince you. At least I tried. :)

Malyngo
12-21-2017, 04:19 PM
I am greatful for your advice, I really am. But your last sentence just was too much like: You get what you deserve if you are a not so good player. Topped with some "I can't put it any nicer".

How about: Getting out of Vortex isn't so hard, you just need a little practice.

For you, it might be easy to see how to get out. For me it was like: side dodge, bam guard broken. Do nothing, wait for his guard break: he shoulder bashes. I didn't see any other way then to roll away, which honestly ist a ****ty way to end the Vortex. Even if it isn't too bad, as both have lost. But ... it is just back to square one.

Charmzzz
12-21-2017, 04:24 PM
I am greatful for your advice, I really am. But your last sentence just was too much like: You get what you deserve if you are a not so good player. Topped with some "I can't put it any nicer".

How about: Getting out of Vortex isn't so hard, you just need a little practice.

For you, it might be easy to see how to get out. For me it was like: side dodge, bam guard broken. Do nothing, wait for his guard break: he shoulder bashes. I didn't see any other way then to roll away, which honestly ist a ****ty way to end the Vortex. Even if it isn't too bad, as both have lost. But ... it is just back to square one.

Just do a 500ms Light. Every Character has one except 4: Raider (who can safely Dodge for a punish because he can CGB while Dodging), Highlander (but he can heavy for hyperarmor if he is fast enough), Shugoki (Hyperarmor) and Nobushi (who can Dodge Attack and can use her range to never let Warden get close enough for Vortex)

Every other Character has access to a 500ms Light or 400ms GB. You just need to remember that you have to instantly hit Light when he starts to Charge. Do not try to Dodge if you are not in safe range.

bob333e
12-21-2017, 04:24 PM
I am greatful for your advice, I really am. But your last sentence just was too much like: You get what you deserve if you are a not so good player. Topped with some "I can't put it any nicer".

How about: Getting out of Vortex isn't so hard, you just need a little practice.

For you, it might be easy to see how to get out. For me it was like: side dodge, bam guard broken. Do nothing, wait for his guard break: he shoulder bashes. I didn't see any other way then to roll away, which honestly ist a ****ty way to end the Vortex. Even if it isn't too bad, as both have lost. But ... it is just back to square one.

Because you have no idea how many players have, just recently, been crying nerf about Warden's shoulderbash on these forums, and it frankly got severely annoying. But, I do apologise if it came out as offensive. The intent was to give a TL,DR version of what every other person would say in general.

It is easy to get out of, provided you read your opponent. I'm assuming you're referring to Duels/Brawls since in 4v4s his vortex isn't much of a thing because 4v4s are a mess in general. In Duels, always study your opponent. What they prefer to do, how they time their attacks.

Also Warlord has hyperarmored heavies. They can tank through Warden's shoulderbash and you'll cancel his vortex. Block-deflect his opening attack (it's mostly a top light) then do a quick light, headbutt, hyperarmored heavy. You'll scare the poop out of any Warden who attempts to shoulderbash. Their only way would be to fully charge the SB, in which case it's easily telegraphed, dodged, and punished.

I appreciate you going back into being calm and constructive, thanks for that.