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Han-Singular
12-18-2017, 05:01 PM
The original videos shown had the enemy grab valk.

Now it's been changed so they fall and grab her shield...

It looks awkward and weird now.

I had heard they were having a clipping issue with the original and that's why it didn't make it into season 4 release.

Saml84
12-18-2017, 05:10 PM
I guess they censored it because people were complaining about it or something but that kind of sucks because the original one was better and made a lot more sense.

vgrimr_J
12-18-2017, 05:15 PM
its super bad to have any type of sexual content in america. sure we have flying heads and arms are getting cut off but touching breasts? NONONO! thats too much.

Orisoll
12-18-2017, 05:31 PM
I haven't seen the original, but think of the context. Wouldn't it would be even more awkward if someone who just got gored with a spear immediately tried to cop a feel on their opponent?

bob333e
12-18-2017, 05:34 PM
I haven't seen the original


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX2HiaMvZHw

I do agree with the OP that the original was better.

High-Horse
12-18-2017, 06:13 PM
its super bad to have any type of sexual content in america. sure we have flying heads and arms are getting cut off but touching breasts? NONONO! thats too much.
I mean, it's one thing for almost everything in media to be oversexualized to make a woman feel like the only thing she can bring the table is physical appeal, but what did this execution have to do with that? It's not like she's doing a sexy pose, it was funny awkward moment before MURDERING THE WOULD BE OFFENDER.

Gotta draw a line somewhere I guess.

Gunner11Mendez
12-18-2017, 06:16 PM
I'm super disappointed in the change as well. Is it really where we are in 2017? It literally looks dumb now and doesn't make sense, but whatever.

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:13 PM
I mean, it's one thing for almost everything in media to be oversexualized to make a woman feel like the only thing she can bring the table is physical appeal, but what did this execution have to do with that? It's not like she's doing a sexy pose, it was funny awkward moment before MURDERING THE WOULD BE OFFENDER.

Gotta draw a line somewhere I guess.

The more I think about it, I wonder why did they even come up with that execution for Valkyrie in the first place? and then have to doubt themselves, change it, and upset a lot of players, particularly Valk mains. Plus have us all riding the 'oh there was a clipping issue so we're fixing that' train.
There are several executions in the game that just plain look wrong and nonsensical, and others that just seem too downgraded. Some examples:

- Warden's 'Gut Then Chop'. Nonsensical. In what world do you completely chop a head off after fully stopping the blade right at the neck, and halting all momentum?
- Warden's 'Backhand Strike'. Downgraded. More of a punch than an execution. I personally don't see what's so deadly about it.
- Raider's newest execution. Nonsensical. The victim holds the very blade of the axe with his hands, which has the added weight of the Raider pushing in with full force. The victim's hands are basically holding a guillotine and they remain unscathed. Dunno.

Etc etc.

But Valk's new execution was the icing on the cake. A completely out-of-place idea, the first ever too, in For Honor. Which also greatly impacts the Valkyrie's impression on the game. Then oh hey, it's controversial, let's SFW it. And let's lie to everyone what the issue was.

Helnekromancer
12-18-2017, 07:13 PM
Oh cmon Nobushi bounces a coin off her *** and Shugoki's Hip Attack execution is the Fat Man pelvic thrusting your face, so an accidental boobbage is pretty tame compare to that. xD

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:21 PM
Oh cmon Nobushi bounces a coin off her *** and Shugoki's Hip Attack execution is the Fat Man pelvic thrusting your face, so an accidental boobbage is pretty tame compare to that horror. xD

Well, check this out, hah. I really wish it was implemented THIS way. Perhaps by then, Valk wouldn't be too much of an issue lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7k0eoe/highlander_coin_toss_reverse/#bottom-comments

High-Horse
12-18-2017, 07:28 PM
The more I think about it, I wonder why did they even come up with that execution for Valkyrie in the first place? and then have to doubt themselves, change it, and upset a lot of players, particularly Valk mains. Plus have us all riding the 'oh there was a clipping issue so we're fixing that' train.
There are several executions in the game that just plain look wrong and nonsensical, and others that just seem too downgraded. Some examples:

- Warden's 'Gut Then Chop'. Nonsensical. In what world do you completely chop a head off after fully stopping the blade right at the neck, and halting all momentum?
- Warden's 'Backhand Strike'. Downgraded. More of a punch than an execution. I personally don't see what's so deadly about it.
- Raider's newest execution. Nonsensical. The victim holds the very blade of the axe with his hands, which has the added weight of the Raider pushing in with full force. The victim's hands are basically holding a guillotine and they remain unscathed. Dunno.

Etc etc.

But Valk's new execution was the icing on the cake. A completely out-of-place idea, the first ever too, in For Honor. Which also greatly impacts the Valkyrie's impression on the game. Then oh hey, it's controversial, let's SFW it. And let's lie to everyone what the issue was.
Right? It's like trying to play both sides without taking a stance. If the choice is between a watered-down pandering and outright offending someone, I'd rather they just remove it. At least that would be taking a stance.

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:31 PM
Right? It's like trying to play both sides without taking a stance. If the choice is between a watered-down pandering and outright offending someone, I'd rather they just remove it. At least that would be taking a stance.

Exactly. Remove it, go back to the drawing board, redesign a new, and more logical, and properly polished, one. But no. They're just too lazy.

Helnekromancer
12-18-2017, 07:38 PM
Well, check this out, hah. I really wish it was implemented THIS way. Perhaps by then, Valk wouldn't be too much of an issue lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7k0eoe/highlander_coin_toss_reverse/#bottom-comments

Hahaha WHAT? Holy **** that's awesome!

Crap now I'm just sad for HL mains.

I mean Nobushi Snap-Off Execution is different from what they told us what it was going to look like so instead of twirling her Naginata, she does a weird monkey hop at the end of the execution and never fixed it, and simply ignore all the players bringing it up. But they need to look over all their emotes and executions.

But i really wanted that accidental grope Execution, reminded of that part in the Deadpool game when Deadpool did it to Cable and got punched. :D

Han-Singular
12-18-2017, 07:40 PM
I couldn't agree more. If it's that offensive just give us a brand new one.

I was really hoping the change wasn't do to some "PC" bs.

I mean if characters can be kicked or hit the testicals What's the difference

This game is rated mature after all.

If they can have bear breasts in God of War I don't think a boobie touch is out of the question here.

Look at other fighting games, (street fighter, mortal kombat, killer instinct, king of fighters, etc etc) there's sexually suggestive themes all over the place.

Give us back our execution devs (please)

Or at least a real explanation.

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:47 PM
I couldn't agree more. If it's that offensive just give us a brand new one.

I was really hoping the change wasn't do to some "PC" bs.

I mean if characters can be kicked or hit the testicals What's the difference

This game is rated mature after all.

If they can have bear breasts in God of War I don't think a boobie touch is out of the question here.

Look at other fighting games, (street fighter, mortal kombat, killer instinct, king of fighters, etc etc) there's sexually suggestive themes all over the place.

Give us back our execution devs (please)

Or at least a real explanation.

Warden's 'Victory' emote, when repeatedly spammed, makes him look like he's jacking off. It's better if you do it against a wall or in a corner with your back turned. And all the better at a kneeling PK.

I'm guilty of trying all these out myself.

And I recently saw a vid where a Cent and a Glad spammed a certain emote up close and they looked like they were pelvic-thrusting each other.

But hey, all of that is fine! diversity, right?

Vakris_One
12-18-2017, 07:50 PM
Wait, so the Shugoki violently crushing a human skull into paste is A-ok as is the LB slowly strangling someone to death and characters cutting off limbs just to watch their opponent's squirm in terror and pain. All of that is ok. But showing a person falling forward and instinctively bracing themselves by putting his hands onto the woman who pulled him's breast is considered offensive?

So offensive in fact that that was the reason they pulled the Valk's new execution out. That's very strange to me. What is this irrational fear of the female body about? If it was a male character with that execution it would not have been removed. Why does having a pair of breasts underneath the armour change things?

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:53 PM
^

And that's in an M-rated game, folks.

Helnekromancer
12-18-2017, 07:54 PM
Idk it's super weird, but I hate feminism tampering with my games.

"I play video games to escape you, quit following me"

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:56 PM
The only company I really respect for delivering an intended message inside a videogame without tying it to real-world BS, is CDProjektRed.

Vakris_One
12-18-2017, 07:58 PM
Warden's 'Victory' emote, when repeatedly spammed, makes him look like he's jacking off. It's better if you do it against a wall or in a corner with your back turned. And all the better at a kneeling PK.

I'm guilty of trying all these out myself.

And I recently saw a vid where a Cent and a Glad spammed a certain emote up close and they looked like they were pelvic-thrusting each other.

But hey, all of that is fine! diversity, right?
Very true. We have Viking Raiders of both genders humping their axes. We have the male Orochi looking like he is also jerking himself off. We have the Shaman dry humping the air or if you place her near an object or other character then she looks like she's humping them/it.

We have the Musha essentially making a suck my mini-Musha gesture. We got the Kensei able to sit on dead people's faces for some ball licking or taco rubbing action depending on gender choice. I mean ... :)

Accidentally bracing oneself against a woman's chest is the least offensive thing by comparison.

bob333e
12-18-2017, 07:59 PM
Very true. We have Viking Raiders of both genders humping their axes. We have the male Orochi looking like he is also jerking himself off. We have the Shaman dry humping the air or if you place her near an object or other character then she looks like she's humping them/it.

We have the Musha essentially making a suck my mini-Musha gesture. We got the Kensei able to sit on dead people's faces for some ball licking or taco rubbing action depending on gender choice. I mean ... :)

Accidentally bracing oneself against a woman's chest is the least offensive thing by comparison.

^^^^^^^^^

Vakris_One
12-18-2017, 08:03 PM
Idk it's super weird, but I hate feminism tampering with my games.

"I play video games to escape you, quit following me"
I don't think it's feminism (at least not the genuine kind of feminism) as most women worth their salt wouldn't find this even remotely offensive. I mean the majority of guys wouldn't find a hit to the balls in a video game or movie offensive now would they?

bob333e
12-18-2017, 08:41 PM
I don't think it's feminism (at least not the genuine kind of feminism) as most women worth their salt wouldn't find this even remotely offensive. I mean the majority of guys wouldn't find a hit to the balls in a video game or movie offensive now would they?

*casually swings at a Valkyrie for free damage*

*eats a ball kick exec*

*Feels offended*

*Ragequits from a 4v4*

*eats a nice 10min penalty*

*goes into Custom Match, selects a level 3 Valk bot*

*gets ball kicked by Valk bot*

*feels doubly offended*

*turns off, goes to eat*

*comes back, select Brawl against Shugoki and Conq level 3 bots*

*Shugoki sits on my character 1st match, Conq strikes my nuts 2nd match*

*That's it, this game is against humanitarian rights*

;)

Jazz117Volkov
12-18-2017, 09:02 PM
Berserker has been kicking everyone in the groin since launch...

I don't care that they changed it (even though the change makes it nonsensical), I do care that they made an excuse for it and effectively lied to us. That is very uncool.

I feel bad for Valk mains. No new execute for like a month, lied to, now some awkward hack of an animation.

Jansen5
12-18-2017, 09:40 PM
Somewhere, some 10 year old saw it, whined on the forums. So instead of getting in trouble they fixed it. Remember kids its rated M. Don't like that Injustice is a good fighter game. Honestly this was the best execution coming out. But due to some light minded moron, it was ruined. Not surprising.

As a Valk main, I am severely pissed off. They told us it was a clipping issue of the grope. Now we get a big ol' censor. Come on now Ubi.

Hormly
12-18-2017, 10:10 PM
It was funny, and awesome. But the ugly chicks would cry, so it cannot be.

dont placate people who dont play your games

Jansen5
12-18-2017, 10:47 PM
This is why we can't have nice things.

Valkyrie is disappointed they didn't go for her chest.

ShonM93
12-18-2017, 11:22 PM
Valk is now considered a Tsundere. She WANTED to be groped but the enemy missed it, so she kicked 'em in the nuts. And smacked 'em. For good measure.

But seriously: "Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, i can see Valk... and her boobs... even my fingers on it. The execution i've lost... the execution we've all lost... won't stop hurting. It's like it got censored. You feel it, too, don't you? We're gonna make them give back our execution" - Famous words of Kazuhira Miller delivered by Shon F*ckin' Mortyn.

Alustar.
12-19-2017, 12:04 AM
This is ridiculous, Americans have to be one of the top sexually repressed people's on this planet (second only to the Japanese) I feel bad for the developers having to deal with the backlash from this. Really parents? Your kids have real problems for you to fight, but you can't be ****ed to do anything because bewbs in a video game? Wow.

Tyrjo
12-19-2017, 09:36 AM
It's kind of obvious now that the reason it was delayed and changed is the whole #metoo thing.

bananaflow2017
12-19-2017, 09:58 AM
It's kind of obvious now that the reason it was delayed and changed is the whole #metoo thing.

Yeah.... I really dont think that this was a sexistic in any kind of way. Like mentioned before zerkeris kicking nuts since lunch.... thats ok, but if you get ur *** kicked for touching valks breast the end is near...

Armosias
12-19-2017, 01:24 PM
"As a man I feel offended when another hero kicks mine up the parts. WE, the gaming community, cannot bear such violence in a Mature bloody and gore game. I demand that any attack hitting between legs to be removed as I feel sexually assaulted." Said no one ever.
Seriously this execution was truly what they wanted to bring with the last ones, it was as funny as stylish. A good part of the rooster can strike down the crotch, execution or not. HOW DOES TOUCHING A CHEST CAN BE OFFENSIVE!? You can litteraly have your parts broken by a flail it's okay but nooooo the guy is touching boobs through chain mail, fur, skin and armour, FOUR F***ING LAYERS OF CLOTH. How in heavens do you believe that anyone would feel offended by this? Or how can you listen to anyone complaining? When the game is mature, flagged as highly violent? If anyone happens to feel offended they were warned upon buying and installing the game. Bring back this execution as it SHOULD and MUST BE. As a lawbringer is it offensive toward anyone if I choke down and break the neck of a female character? Is it offensive when any female character gets punched up the chest or kicked down the crotch by a Berzerker? Is it offensive when shaman litteraly eats your character(CANNIBALISM) while laying one the chest of a female character? Is it offensive when any male character suffers a crushing blow down their nuts, litteraly destroying anything down there?

IT IS NOT IN ANY WAY.

Best regards from France where a man, Lawbringer main got pissed at a removal regarding a character he only played in the campaign.

Knight_Raime
12-19-2017, 01:37 PM
It's probably because the game is rated M for only violence things. That's a blatently sexual thing. And it might have been enough to cause the game to be rated again which costs a lot of money.
They'd probably have to do the same thing if they tried to do any drug themed related things.

Personally I think the execution is fine as is and I don't think anyone would be throwing a fit about it if they didn't know it was changed to begin with.

Armosias
12-19-2017, 01:48 PM
It's probably because the game is rated M for only violence things. That's a blatently sexual thing. And it might have been enough to cause the game to be rated again which costs a lot of money.
They'd probably have to do the same thing if they tried to do any drug themed related things.

Personally I think the execution is fine as is and I don't think anyone would be throwing a fit about it if they didn't know it was changed to begin with.

I haven't seen the new one tho. Still is as sexual any attack hitting down in my opinion. Also we can clearly see that it is not intended by the victim in any way as the warden's reaction can show us.

Vakris_One
12-19-2017, 02:13 PM
It's probably because the game is rated M for only violence things. That's a blatently sexual thing. And it might have been enough to cause the game to be rated again which costs a lot of money.
They'd probably have to do the same thing if they tried to do any drug themed related things.

Personally I think the execution is fine as is and I don't think anyone would be throwing a fit about it if they didn't know it was changed to begin with.
True, if people didn't know what it was originally they wouldn't be criticising this decision but we did and we do. I don't agree that it's a sexual thing though. Not even remotely. Breasts underneath clothing are not an inherently sexual thing. Breasts have been sexualised primarily because men find them attractive but they are not inherently sexual. Lest we forget the primary reason for the existence of mammary glands is to produce milk. Breasts are not a sexual organ like a ***** or a ******, i.e. we don't need or use them for sex, they just make things more fun during :)

Secondly, the context of the action is also not a sexual thing. The victim of the execution is pulled towards the Valk and instinctively braces themselves against her chest. They feel embararrsed, a bit of slapstick comedy ensues, she hits them in the groin, insert "audience applause" sign here. If the victim of the execution were to fondle her breasts now that would actually be a sexual thing.

Honestly, changing the original "No Touching" animation because it might worry the censors is kinder garden stuff. Ewe, girl haz boobies. Oh no! Now we get kooties! Maybe it really is an American thing but it just feels wierd to me that that would be their reasoning in a game with violence levels that are pushing close to an 18 rating at times - a giant armored man choking a woman to death anyone?

Armosias
12-19-2017, 02:32 PM
True, if people didn't know what it was originally they wouldn't be criticising this decision but we did and we do. I don't agree that it's a sexual thing though. Not even remotely. Breasts underneath clothing are not an inherently sexual thing. Breasts have been sexualised primarily because men find them attractive but they are not inherently sexual. Lest we forget the primary reason for the existence of mammary glands is to produce milk. Breasts are not a sexual organ like a ***** or a ******, i.e. we don't need or use them for sex, they just make things more fun during :)

Secondly, the context of the action is also not a sexual thing. The victim of the execution is pulled towards the Valk and instinctively braces themselves against her chest. They feel embararrsed, a bit of slapstick comedy ensues, she hits them in the groin, insert "audience applause" sign here. If the victim of the execution were to fondle her breasts now that would actually be a sexual thing.

Honestly, changing the original "No Touching" animation because it might worry the censors is kinder garden stuff. Ewe, girl haz boobies. Oh no! Now we get kooties! Maybe it really is an American thing but it just feels wierd to me that that would be their reasoning in a game with violence levels that are pushing close to an 18 rating at times - a giant armored man choking a woman to death anyone?

Oh my god how I do agree this. (Btw game is rated 18+ where I live, adults only.) Which is actually older than any soft sexual content.

High-Horse
12-19-2017, 04:43 PM
It's a strange American juxtaposition. You look at all the American celebrities that many people look up to, what they're wearing, the movies and music videos they're in, it doesn't just allude to sex, it's everywhere and shoved down our throats, but then looking at American daily life, you'd think we're prudes the way we argue over accidently touching breasts in a violent, not-for-children video game. We're just set up for failure.

Jazz117Volkov
12-19-2017, 05:15 PM
I gave this a moment more thought.

We don't actually know why it was changed, do we? I don't see an army of offended people. Ubi seemed comfortable enough calling it a clipping issue. And, of course, the thing that that excuse was meant to minimize is starting up right here. I don't think that was the best way to handle it, but I could also be wrong (I'm not likely to ever side with lying to your audience). And that's a shame because everyone actually understands what's happening and why. On an intuitive level, we get it. All would-be rational arguments sitting on top are just noise. No action exists inside a vacuum, no matter how much you want it too.

This game doesn't exist inside a vacuum either. The animation was gender exclusive; the exclusivity was removed, and that is why it was removed. Someone at Ubi made a judgement call. It's fair to disagree with that decision, but I think most of this topic is disingenuous. And that's not to say that western culture doesn't have a problem with sexuality. It most certainly does (it's reflected everywhere in our language). But that's not really what this is about. This is about context.

The difference between ignorance and apathy is I don't know and I don't care. Which one are you?

FredEx919
12-19-2017, 09:48 PM
Hey everyone, I just want to jump in and say that the previous Valkyrie ‘No Touching’ execution was incorrectly made available. We released the final version with our update yesterday and the previous version will not be made available.

Vordred
12-19-2017, 09:53 PM
Well personally i think they should just remove it all together and gives us a new one. it makes no sense now and just looks weird. the old one was funny and amusing. this one, if you didn't know what it originally was, just looks lame and makes no real sense. plus it will forever have the stigma of what it should have been.

so if Ubi doesn't have the balls to keep it the way it was, just can it and do a whole new one

AkenoKobayashi
12-19-2017, 10:11 PM
Ubi should have said "**** it." and let it go as it was. As people have said, it's a game with limbs getting chopped, heads getting smashed, necks getting snapped, but covered boobs getting an accidental feel is too much? Right.

Isn't the game already rated M? So what would it really do to add one sleazy execution? Meanwhile, you can have a car pool orgy in GTA Online is everyone pucks up a prostitute and goes to the same secluded area. RS devs don't give a **** about it.

Also, why would anyone want to grab the Valk's tits? None of the females in this game are attractive physically. The Shaman is debatable, but....she's a loon. Until the Valk's execution came along the Nobu had the lewdest emote so far. And now that the execution was changed...she is back on top.

Tundra 793
12-20-2017, 02:13 PM
Full disclosure; I will not be losing any sleep over this issue. I disagree with it wholeheartedly, and it represents one of my least favorite aspects of modern Western society concerning video games.
But there's bigger issues we can complain about.

That said, the "new" execution is ********.

"No Touching" was clearly conjured up with the specific comedic intent of accidental boob touching in a precarious situation. Aren't jokes fun when you have to break them down?
The execution as it is now, as many others have pointed out, makes little sense and has no humor left. It's simply quite pointless. It's a joke without a punchline, and I for one don't see any particular reasons outside pandering to people to who might be easily offended for altering it.

"No Touching" did not include any sexual content, it did not objectify men nor women, it did not feature nudity. It didn't even feature anything someone with half a brain might consider suggestive content. The worst thing it did, like 90% of For Honor does, is glorify gore and virtual violence. But that's just fine.

Armosias
12-20-2017, 04:15 PM
I agree we should NOT let them get away like this. Personaly I want explanations, serious and real explanations, proofs needed if this exec really had clipping issues. This topic will not fall.

Tundra 793
12-20-2017, 04:16 PM
I agree we should NOT let them get away like this. Personaly I want explanations, serious and real explanations, proofs needed if this exec really had clipping issues. This topic will not fall.

Well, if there's one thing that'll unite mankind, It's the boobs.

Errybodeh loves the boobs.

Vakris_One
12-20-2017, 04:28 PM
Well, if there's one thing that'll unite mankind, It's the boobs.

Errybodeh loves the boobs.
And Star Wars. Boobs and Star Wars. If climate change altered the shape of boobs and cancelled the filming of episode 9 we'd have solved it in less than a month by now. If the Moon had lightsabers and boobs on it we'd have been back there already, colonised every inch of it and had space travel by now.

Nobody messes with the boobs and the Star Wars :)

Tundra 793
12-20-2017, 04:42 PM
And Star Wars. Boobs and Star Wars. If climate change altered the shape of boobs and cancelled the filming of episode 9 we'd have solved it in less than a month by now. If the Moon had lightsabers and boobs on it we'd have been back there already, colonised every inch of it and had space travel by now.

Nobody messes with the boobs and the Star Wars :)

Truer words were never spoken. I'd have posted a... certain picture of Aayla Secura with a clever tagline, but the picture is far, far too offensive for a forum about an M rated game.

FightingFerrets
12-20-2017, 07:22 PM
I agree we should NOT let them get away like this. Personaly I want explanations, serious and real explanations, proofs needed if this exec really had clipping issues. This topic will not fall.

Not let them "get away"? Just what exactly are you going to do? Removing the execution makes perfect sense given the current political and social climate in the United States. Sexual harassment has become a HUGE issue as evidenced by the #metoo movement, the recent string of Hollywood exec's and actors being flayed for their misconduct, and a President who has openly admitted to sexually assaulting multiple women.

I completely agree with many of the sentiments that the execution overall isn't inherently sexual, if anything it's a bit of slapstick comedy but...it's a bad time to flaunt any type of unsolicited touching/groping. From a Ubi point of view; no one is going to outright quit the game because this execution was removed and replaced with a rather lackluster version. But...some people might quit if they find the previous execution to be in bad taste. You don't have to agree with that, but it is what it is.

As for getting kicked in the junk...I mean seriously, that's a piss poor comparison. What makes the whole execution controversial is that the Valk obviously takes exception to the Warden's accidental grope insinuating it's an unwanted touching of her female parts. A kick to the junk, while also usually unwanted, doesn't carry the same context. If my Peacekeeper stunned an opponent and then reached down to cup and caress the sack of a Warden before slitting his throat you'd have a more even comparison.

While I completely agree that compared to the excessively violent nature of the game (where a huge *** male Lawbringer can choke the life from a woman character) this seems like small beans, I can certainly see why Ubi is taking the safe road here.

Devils-_-legacy
12-20-2017, 07:29 PM
Not let them "get away"? Just what exactly are you going to do? Removing the execution makes perfect sense given the current political and social climate in the United States. Sexual harassment has become a HUGE issue as evidenced by the #metoo movement, the recent string of Hollywood exec's and actors being flayed for their misconduct, and a President who has openly admitted to sexually assaulting multiple women.
Really What does any of this have to do with a video game? That's not even a company based in the us I think people need to learn the difference between real world issues and a video game were the objective is to slaughter your opponents in various ways. I liked the first one it was funny the one they have replaced it with is pointless i would rather they not halfass it. if it's offensive then remove and replace with a new one if it's not why give us this cliped version of it to the shield imo I don't think people are guna buy the current one

ChrisTaben2017
12-20-2017, 08:04 PM
2017 a tame non sexual perhaps slightly suggestive execution is removed from for honor due to fear or SJW BS
2018+ Every kind of artistic content banned from games for life with a tumbling slide of no remorse.

Let things slide today, let them get away with it and this is your future.

For a start make sure no one spends steel on this so they completely waste time and any kind of profit for it.

bob333e
12-20-2017, 09:00 PM
Full disclosure; I will not be losing any sleep over this issue. I disagree with it wholeheartedly, and it represents one of my least favorite aspects of modern Western society concerning video games.
But there's bigger issues we can complain about.

That said, the "new" execution is ********.

"No Touching" was clearly conjured up with the specific comedic intent of accidental boob touching in a precarious situation. Aren't jokes fun when you have to break them down?
The execution as it is now, as many others have pointed out, makes little sense and has no humor left. It's simply quite pointless. It's a joke without a punchline, and I for one don't see any particular reasons outside pandering to people to who might be easily offended for altering it.

"No Touching" did not include any sexual content, it did not objectify men nor women, it did not feature nudity. It didn't even feature anything someone with half a brain might consider suggestive content. The worst thing it did, like 90% of For Honor does, is glorify gore and virtual violence. But that's just fine.

Eloquently well said. Thank you. Couldn't have put it better meself.


I agree we should NOT let them get away like this. Personaly I want explanations, serious and real explanations, proofs needed if this exec really had clipping issues. This topic will not fall.

Basically, the presence of the slightest "sexual" content would risk altering the rating of the game by the ESRB company. So they removed that, to not risk having to pay money again on a new rating for For Honor, and go through boring, tiring and expensive bureaucracy again to re-rate the title. Personally, I don't know, the game is already rated M, so I dunno why they even worried. But then again, I understand little at bureaucracy.

The other side being, of course, real-world BS that interfered with this. With the presence of that execution, Ubisoft can risk dealing with raging feminists, which is, again, a tiring and (could be) expensive chore.

The real problem though, in regards to us the playerbase, Ubisoft dowright lied to us all, saying it was a 'clipping issue that needed fixing'.

And the conclusion is, the playerbase felt cheated, and Valkyrie mains felt betrayed.

SwellChemosabe
12-20-2017, 09:27 PM
Isn't this a rated R game? A game where I can bury my axes hilt deep into your shoulders or lop off your head like i'm slicing bananas, fall to my death, be set on fire, be impaled, dismemebered and, overall, a game with -war- as it's theme?

Something lots of people either don't know or don't talk about when it came to medieval combat is that in war rape was often a common thing. "to the victor go the spoils" being a very very oversimplified phrase for the horrors that occured during and after every battle back then.

This, however, is not that. I watched the clip and what i saw was a warden falling forward trying to catch himself, accidently groping the valk, immediately regretting that mistake and trying to signal something akin to "no! wait! wait! i didn't mea-" and valk immediately shutting that **** down like a proper bad ***. and i laughed, because that **** was funny to watch.

Never thought i'd see the day where video games tried to be politically correct and it saddens me. *sad face* oh well.

Tundra 793
12-21-2017, 12:39 AM
Removing the execution makes perfect sense given the current political and social climate in the United States.

Except, For Honor is developed by Ubisoft Montreal, a Canadian subsidiary of Ubisoft, itself a French company. For Honor is also distributed worldwide.
Whatever issues the US is working through shouldn't affect a video game.


Basically, the presence of the slightest "sexual" content would risk altering the rating of the game by the ESRB company.

I need a Ubi response to this, because I do not get it.

Star Wars: The Old Republic is rated T in part because of "Sexual Themes". The game lets you pursue romantic relationships with NPCs, including clearly stated sexual encounters, although heavily censored.
For Honor already has an M rating for the violence alone.

This is just semantics in my opinion, because "No Touching" is not, in any way, sexual. It's not sexually thematic, overtly or even inferred. Like FightingFerrets called it, It's basically slapstick comedy.
The player receiving the execution makes clear gestures that it was not at all, a sexual gesture, even going so far as to frantically panic. The Valkyrie responds to this by killing said player with excessive blunt force trauma to the head.

If someone could find any of this sexual, they have issues.

bob333e
12-21-2017, 12:51 AM
This is just semantics in my opinion, because "No Touching" is not, in any way, sexual. It's not sexually thematic, overtly or even inferred. Like FightingFerrets called it, It's basically slapstick comedy.
The player receiving the execution makes clear gestures that it was not at all, a sexual gesture, even going so far as to frantically panic. The Valkyrie responds to this by killing said player with excessive blunt force trauma to the head.

If someone could find any of this sexual, they have issues.

I agree. I also agree with what FightingFerrets said.

On one side, you have Mass Effect and Dragon Age which right away encourage g@y/lesb1an relationships in a videogame. Even though most stuff is censored, you're still placed in a sexual and romantic element. Both published by EA, which is US-based.

On another side, we have, as you stated, even more cases in Star Wars: TOR.

Outside than the logical reasoning of further money-spending on a new rating for For Honor, I'll never understand why would Ubisoft do this.

Hammelsneid
12-21-2017, 03:21 AM
Maybe they don't want to encourage (young) women to hit every single man with a stomp into his crotch and bashing him with a shield afterwards after getting touched in that specific body area? Maybe some masculinist got offended? For safety's sake I now lower the sarcasm sign *lowering the sarcasm sign*.

CandleInTheDark
12-21-2017, 03:38 AM
Except, For Honor is developed by Ubisoft Montreal, a Canadian subsidiary of Ubisoft, itself a French company. For Honor is also distributed worldwide.
Whatever issues the US is working through shouldn't affect a video game.

While I agree with the rest of your post, this isn't just a US thing currently. Can't speak for the rest of Europe but things like that have been popping up in news in England for the last couple years or so and the latest Big Scandal was a series of stories over what goes on in the government buildings, everything from sending female interns to buy sex toys to sexual assault, that was around a month ago.

While I have no problem with the execution itself for the reasons you gave, I did wonder if it was wise timing.

Tundra 793
12-21-2017, 03:58 AM
While I agree with the rest of your post, this isn't just a US thing currently. Can't speak for the rest of Europe but things like that have been popping up in news in England for the last couple years or so and the latest Big Scandal was a series of stories over what goes on in the government buildings, everything from sending female interns to buy sex toys to sexual assault, that was around a month ago.

While I have no problem with the execution itself for the reasons you gave, I did wonder if it was wise timing.

A fair point, but I'm still not convinced real world events need have an impact on a video game.

For one, as other users pointed out, several other emotes and executions are far more violent, or suggestive at times in For Honor, and have been for months.
The biggest point for me though, is that "No Touching" bears no resemblance or relevance to sexual harasment. The issues faced in the US, and to smaller degrees several European nations have to do with systemic, year and sometimes decades intentional sexual harasment.

"No Touching" is a piece of slapstick comedy. The fact that the animation centers around a woman shouldn't have any effect on the intent of the execution. Especially when the execution still ends with a brutal murder.

Hammelsneid
12-21-2017, 04:07 AM
@CandleInTheDark

Even if it's about timing: I consider myself as a pretty solid empathetic person with a somewhat healthy understanding whats wrong and whats right. No matter WHY they changed it, if it wasn't for any technical issue, I don't have even the slightest understanding for it. But thats for pretty much other things, especially the US regarding "sexual themes", the same.

How on earth can an accidentally grab on someones boobilies, a cleary visible regret of that accident, a horrile beatup as an answer and an all in all more than anything else slapstick like performance of that morally weigh heavier than the rest of those humanity contemptuous executions, while smililar of such cruel things are happening to victims of all ages worldwide every single day. It just does not make any sense in my common sense.

I would even go that far to say, that even if he tries to flirt with her bit (in a very strange way) without that regret animation it would be WAY less offensive than any other decaptiation or dismemberment from an objective point of view.

Broken down to the elements of actions: Why seems a 100 times more natural gesture, (in that case) not harming any souls the slightest to be more offensive than the in my opinion more than a 100 times less "natural" action of killing virtual humans in the most gruesome ways, which are definitely more "dangerous" in the real world than stumbling into a woman and accidentally grabbing something just to avoid of falling over.

But I know.. the world works against any common sense and I just don't get it and don't want to get used to it. *sigh*

Edit: The only thing, that supports this mentality, I can come up with is the every day growing fear of lawsuits and our hypersensitive population, who gets offended by the most rediculous things every day more and more. It's a completely senseless vicious circle.

CandleInTheDark
12-21-2017, 04:12 AM
Like I said, I have no problem with the execution myself, I said at the time I could see some people equipping it because it is cathartic as much as for any fan service and yes there are things more sexually suggestive as some people will readily show you at the end of a duel round, I was just pointing out it is a more widespread thing than the US right now if the current climate has any bearing on it.

Knight_Raime
12-21-2017, 06:09 AM
I haven't seen the new one tho. Still is as sexual any attack hitting down in my opinion. Also we can clearly see that it is not intended by the victim in any way as the warden's reaction can show us.

While a males genitals are a sexual thing it's not typically viewed as one in American society. Even though we've gone far from viewing women as sexual objects somethings involving them or about them are still viewed as sexual stuff inherently. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the change. Just explaining why it probably happened.


True, if people didn't know what it was originally they wouldn't be criticising this decision but we did and we do. I don't agree that it's a sexual thing though. Not even remotely. Breasts underneath clothing are not an inherently sexual thing. Breasts have been sexualised primarily because men find them attractive but they are not inherently sexual. Lest we forget the primary reason for the existence of mammary glands is to produce milk. Breasts are not a sexual organ like a ***** or a ******, i.e. we don't need or use them for sex, they just make things more fun during :)

Secondly, the context of the action is also not a sexual thing. The victim of the execution is pulled towards the Valk and instinctively braces themselves against her chest. They feel embararrsed, a bit of slapstick comedy ensues, she hits them in the groin, insert "audience applause" sign here. If the victim of the execution were to fondle her breasts now that would actually be a sexual thing.

Honestly, changing the original "No Touching" animation because it might worry the censors is kinder garden stuff. Ewe, girl haz boobies. Oh no! Now we get kooties! Maybe it really is an American thing but it just feels wierd to me that that would be their reasoning in a game with violence levels that are pushing close to an 18 rating at times - a giant armored man choking a woman to death anyone?

Breasts are the things boys as they are starting to hit puberty usually fantasize about. When you look at clothing for women advertising wise you don't really see anything trying to show off anything for their ******. It's almost always something butt or breast related. Nothing is inherently sexual but from a societal perspective (at least in America) breasts are still seen as a sexual thing. I mean if they were not we'd probably have less people making a fuss about public breast feeding or women wearing "revealing outfits" being victim blamed from a sexual assault/rape.

America is very open and accepting of violence and to some extend drug related things. But from my perspective (as an American) we're still very close minded and prude when it comes to most things involving relationships and sex. So this change isn't surprising to me at all. I don't see it as a sexual thing. Nor do I think anyone looking at the original execution finds it sexual either. It's more so that they take issue with unwanted touching even if accidental because women are not treated the same here. I'm probably failing to communicate this properly.

Bottom line is though that this would have caused an issue in america. We are the kings of making big deals out of nothing afterall.

Vakris_One
12-21-2017, 01:27 PM
While a males genitals are a sexual thing it's not typically viewed as one in American society. Even though we've gone far from viewing women as sexual objects somethings involving them or about them are still viewed as sexual stuff inherently. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the change. Just explaining why it probably happened.



Breasts are the things boys as they are starting to hit puberty usually fantasize about. When you look at clothing for women advertising wise you don't really see anything trying to show off anything for their ******. It's almost always something butt or breast related. Nothing is inherently sexual but from a societal perspective (at least in America) breasts are still seen as a sexual thing. I mean if they were not we'd probably have less people making a fuss about public breast feeding or women wearing "revealing outfits" being victim blamed from a sexual assault/rape.

America is very open and accepting of violence and to some extend drug related things. But from my perspective (as an American) we're still very close minded and prude when it comes to most things involving relationships and sex. So this change isn't surprising to me at all. I don't see it as a sexual thing. Nor do I think anyone looking at the original execution finds it sexual either. It's more so that they take issue with unwanted touching even if accidental because women are not treated the same here. I'm probably failing to communicate this properly.

Bottom line is though that this would have caused an issue in america. We are the kings of making big deals out of nothing afterall.
Although America is a huge market and they do have an awkward hypocritical kind of prudishness - like selling everything from movies, games, clothes, food and etc with sex and violence is A-ok but somehow just the mere recognition that a woman's body has certain anatomical parts makes people inherently sqeamish. I think the execution was censored primarily because Ubi wanted to avoid a potential poop storm from the outrage culture that most Western countries have gone overboard with, not just America but Europe and Canada too.

The censorship discussion is already doing the rounds on Youtube and I happened upon a comment by Reavyne that I think explains the situation rather well.


So i have had a few people saying that the reason the valk execution was changed was due to the fact for honor has a M rating for violence and not sexual content, while this is true i would like to add some things for people to think about.

Honestly that ESRB rating explanation is correct, but completely ignores the reality of how these things work.
A single emote with a sexual connotation (and a mild one to be exact, in fact the execution is more centred around comedy then sex) would not be enough to force the ESRB OR PEGI to reclassify for honor to any degree.

What realistically happened was, a few people got offended...they cracked the ****s...and due to the current outrage culture climate in the US, Europe and Canada...the devs would have thought it was easier to rework the execution and avoid all the outrage surrounding sexual harassment of women. Better to dodge the bullet before it is even fired.

Another thing that discounts the Ratings argument is the fact that the execution was even made to begin with, making a execution takes both time and money, and reworking it also takes time and money...so if ubisoft where worried it would go against their current ratings of the game, they would not have wasted the time or money...the fact they made it in the first place means that it was 100% fine until someone complained about it and to avoid the drama they changed it, companies will NOT waste time and money for no reason.

And to top it all off, there are already sexually suggestive emotes and executions already in the game (none to the degree of grabbing tits accidentally) but they are still there....i fully get the ESRB/PEGI rating argument, but in reality its such a minor thing, it would be far to much work legally for both the ratings boards and ubisoft to worry about or even update the ratings.

The ratings argument is a valid one because it is true, but people need to also look at the reality of the industry, companies and the world as well when forming opinions on these types of issues...and of course Ubisoft will just go with the ratings thing because it won't call anyone out (thus making no one angry), and is a easy way to make it go away.


Here's the link to his video on this subject and the up coming Frost Wind festival for anyone interested:

https://youtu.be/xw-Ma0K2l20

Armosias
12-21-2017, 01:28 PM
I've seen the censored version and now I wonder what does the valk say... Somehow I believe it could still make some sense but I also feel something is missing since she clearly looks pissed off and the victim is now sorry for touching her shield. That's poor censorship if you ask me. Even the first seasons of Pokemon was censored better than that.
Also wanted to point out that Europe, not only UK, also have a few problems regarding sexual harrasment and recently social medias had their way with something probably similar to #metoo

Edit: just checked and yeah in France we had something much worse than #metoo(which is not a bad idea I must say) as the goal was to name the potential harrasser. Haven't heard anything about fake calls but certainly this was abused.

bob333e
12-21-2017, 02:59 PM
Although America is a huge market and they do have an awkward hypocritical kind of prudishness - like selling everything from movies, games, clothes, food and etc with sex and violence is A-ok but somehow just the mere recognition that a woman's body has certain anatomical parts makes people inherently sqeamish. I think the execution was censored primarily because Ubi wanted to avoid a potential poop storm from the outrage culture that most Western countries have gone overboard with, not just America but Europe and Canada too.

The censorship discussion is already doing the rounds on Youtube and I happened upon a comment by Reavyne that I think explains the situation rather well.




Here's the link to his video on this subject and the up coming Frost Wind festival for anyone interested:

https://youtu.be/xw-Ma0K2l20

Guess this explains it, thanks much for the text and link. Now that I think of it, given the intensity of recent sexual harassment outrages in several countries, it was better for Ubisoft to dodge it all before they, too, became a target; and For Honor, with all its flaws and issues, and its already loud playerbase, definitely doesn't need that bullet now. It was bad timing on Ubisoft's part.

The flat lie to us is still inexcusable though. They could have stated something like this:

Valkyrie

: Altered the 'No Touching' execution to be made available again for all players with patch 1.17

[B]Developer comments: Given the recent sexual harassment outrages across the United States and other countries around the world, we felt it was more proper to alter this execution in a way that allows us, both as developers and as a community, to dodge the poop storm and save ourselves the hassle of having to needlessly defend our beloved game. Better to dodge the bullet before it is even fired.

We apologise for the players that we have risked releasing an execution at an improper timing, and we have readjusted it. This execution alone by no means redefines the genre and rating of the game, but we felt it adds yet another matchstick on a gas field. However this redefines the course of some of the things we had originally planned, and we're happy to announce that this turn of the tide has been more beneficial than detrimental; more good things to come along for all the characters soon enough. Stay strong Warriors!

Rather than, you know, 'oh there was a clipping issue and we're fixing that'. Smh. Seriously... this was what ticked me off the most about the whole thing. Had they said something similar to what I wrote above, I'd have kept it shut all along.

UbiJurassic
12-21-2017, 07:48 PM
Rather than, you know, 'oh there was a clipping issue and we're fixing that'. Smh. Seriously... this was what ticked me off the most about the whole thing. Had they said something similar to what I wrote above, I'd have kept it shut all along.

I believe you may have been misinformed, as we have never said anything about clipping issues.

Han-Singular
12-21-2017, 07:49 PM
That's such a copout answer from the developers.

This just proves Ubi has no backbone or faith in their design choices.

They shied away on the assumption that there would be some kind of backlash.

Well we all know what assuming does; makes and "As-s" out of everyone.

Now we're left with a execution that has no comedic value and just looks awkward.

Way to go Ubi... thanks.

bob333e
12-21-2017, 08:33 PM
I believe you may have been misinformed, as we have never said anything about clipping issues.

Thanks for responding. Wasn't me, I've read it on Reddit. Community speculation, plus someone mentioned that it was specifically stated:

- https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7bvccv/the_controversy_of_the_mysterious_removal_of/#bottom-comments

- https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7bt6kp/valks_new_execution_gone/

- https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7btfzy/why_in_hell_was_valkyries_new_execution_taken_down/#bottom-comments


Here is Fred's official statement, which confirmed nothing, but also denied nothing either:

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7co2mx/valkyrie_execution_release_timing_and_steel_refund/#bottom-comments


It was stuff I had checked out on Reddit soon after I heard from a friend that they were removing Valkyrie's freshly-added execution. I then rode the clipping issue train.

Had someone from Ubisoft sent a statement similar to what I wrote above, instead of just... blanking on it, much of the misunderstanding and backlash wouldn't have happened. :(

CandleInTheDark
12-21-2017, 09:09 PM
Yeah apparently we have all been paying Chinese Whispers, I was certain that I had seen it in an official post, I guess because of how widespread the talk on it was.

Linnix1
12-21-2017, 09:25 PM
My faith in major Western developers is waiting to be reviewed by the one developer who just makes their games the way they want, not giving a damn about "Muh Sexist senstive eyes". Even though this is about a 1 on the scale.

CandleInTheDark
12-23-2017, 03:31 AM
One thing that did come to mind is remember that the devs need to get For Honor recertified in order to add in the training mode. Now I have no problem believing the original execution was the first intended one, I also believe Eric in that they never meant to release that one, my thought is that between concept and release that was when the devs learned they would need to recertify the game and that was a oh hell look what we are about to put in moment.

I am still of the mind that the execution in its original form is not sexual in nature but I can see where the thought do we really want to take this risk comes from.

ShonM93
12-23-2017, 01:15 PM
I believe you may have been misinformed, as we have never said anything about clipping issues.

I wouldn't say that so proudly, your st*pid silence about the reasons you had for this, led you here in the first place. Grats on that. Grats on the "not sayin' a damn world" on the stream when everyone was asking: "Why there's no exe for valk?" Really professional move from a professional team. This little situation says everything that's worth to know about Ubisoft.

vgrimr_J
12-25-2017, 11:51 AM
we might aswell start hitting each other with foam sticks from now on it might bee too violent ppl will get hurt and their christian eyes cant stand it . jk
i don't like this kinda censoring. now they have taken the first step when is the next?

AkenoKobayashi
12-26-2017, 11:17 PM
#FreetheOppai

AGGRESIVECANADA
12-29-2017, 04:22 PM
Asoon as i saw the emote , I got hooked in. I needed it , but i noticed that it wasn't available. I checked what happened and they all said it had a bug so they took it off to fix it and that it will be available mid december. Now it finally came back and the so called " fix " was the gropeing of her breast so the offender just touches her shield. I feel like next to all the limb dismemberment and gore a little funny execution that involves valkryies jugs should not be the part where they think they crossed the line. Please bring back the funny execution, everyone needs it in their lives.