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gnadal
02-21-2004, 06:20 PM
A noobie question: What is the secret to make a good landing with a Polikarpov I-16?

gnadal
02-21-2004, 06:20 PM
A noobie question: What is the secret to make a good landing with a Polikarpov I-16?

carguy_
02-21-2004, 06:31 PM
I have to ask: Do you know how to lower gear in it?

If "yes" then you have to go around 160-180km/h.But it`s rather hard cuz 140 is a stall speed.

It is best to keep the prop pitch at 95% so when you`ll need the extra power you can quickly enable it and the engine will quickly respond.

Oh,and the engine fall asleep if you pull negative Gs.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Mitlov47
02-21-2004, 06:35 PM
I haven't had any problems with it. Just drop the flaps, crank down the landing gear (you have to use the "manual gear up/gear down" buttons--these aren't automatically assigned to a hotkey, so go to the options screen and assign them to something). I come in at 30-40% power, and drop to 0% power just a couple seconds before landing.

Maybe I could be more helpful if I knew what problem you were having with the landing?

p1ngu666
02-21-2004, 06:38 PM
if u bounce, pull up the flaps once uve touched/nearly touched down
works for all planes, useful trick

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Tully__
02-21-2004, 06:42 PM
A shallow approach angle and use power to control the glide slope and pitch angle/trim to control speed. It seems a little counter intuitive at first, but that's the best way.

Once you've set up an approach angle and speed, if it looks like you're going to land short, add power to extend your touch down point then pitch up slightly to prevent the added power from increasing speed.

If you're going to overshoot, pull some power off and pitch down slightly to prevent the drop in power slowing you down too much.

When you first start using this method you'll want to start your landing approach about 5km straight out (about 3 times the length of most runways) and about 500m above runway altitude, but as you get more adept at it you can make landing approaches from many angles and heights(provided you're not going too fast to start with http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

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Salut
Tully

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Sat February 21 2004 at 06:09 PM.]

SeaFireLIV
02-21-2004, 06:43 PM
I`ve landed the I16 so many times now I can`t even think of the landing procedeure... apart from saying lower your gears manually.

Although you don`t really explain yourself very well. Your question could apply to any plane. W I dunno why a lot of kids seem to think we can mind read.... What exactly is the problem?

Edit: Looks like Tully`s answered it all anyway.

SeaFireLIV...

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The Fights continue out of the Servers...

Mitlov47
02-21-2004, 06:45 PM
I just land in the empty field near the runway and then taxi over to it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tully__
02-21-2004, 07:17 PM
A hastily made I16 landing demo can be found here (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/I16landing.zip)

Unzip the file to you FB records directory. This approach is VERY shallow (needs more than 50% power to hold the glide slope) and the bump on landing can be avoided by a slower approach, by pulling power a fraction earlier or by pulling the nose up less on the flare.

You'll note the bump recovering consisted of keeping the stick slightly back to hold aircraft attitude. If you push forward you'll make it bump a second time. If its a really big bump, you'll need to add power as well to stop the plane stalling before the 2nd touch.

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Salut
Tully

Old_Canuck
02-22-2004, 01:11 AM
Enjoyed the track ... "just like in the movies." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Tully__
02-22-2004, 02:55 AM
If you'd like one for any other aircraft, don't hesitate to let me know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Salut
Tully

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-22-2004, 04:10 AM
Tully, I feel the track recording facility of FB is far too underutilized for training/advice. I for one would love to see a good database of tracks demonstrating certain tasks, procedures, etc. I know there are a few out there but they are fairly limited. Please do post some landing tracks, I'll certainly DL them. For instance, a problem I always have is how to quickly loose altitude AND speed in preparation for a landing. The other night I dropped down from 5000 meters after escorting B-17s, lined up on the runway, dropped the gear, and ...ooops... the gear was torn off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Forgot I was doing about 250 mph in the P-47.

Alexi

P.S. What is the difference between .trk and .ntrk files? How do you make .ntrk files? I'm sure this must be in the README but I'm at work (another weekend slog http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif )

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

F19_Olli72
02-22-2004, 04:25 AM
Alexi, it can be assigned in controls menu. Its called "Quick Start/Save track".

Jim57
02-22-2004, 07:16 AM
I have a very good training video for a takeoff and landing in the I16 that I got from Mark Chapmans web site. The video and text did not line up, so I re-did the text to match the video. I emailed it to Mark, but he has not had time to put this up on his site. If anyone here would like to see it, leave your email, and I will be glad to send it to you. It is pretty good. I cannot take any credit for the video or text.

Jim

Tully__
02-22-2004, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexi_Alx_Anova:

P.S. What is the difference between .trk and .ntrk files? How do you make .ntrk files? I'm sure this must be in the README but I'm at work (another weekend slog http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif )
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.trk files record control inputs and replay the mission as if you were actually flying it again. Consequently any change to flight model (with a patch) or anything that causes the computer to apply one of the recorded control inputs late will change the outcome. They work well on high end machines with lots of memory provided the recording is played back in the same patch version, but don't transfer reliably from fast PC's to slow ones and don't transfer at all between patch version. They also don't work for recording multiplayer missions.

.ntrk files record actual positon, speed and attitude of planes and objects as seen by your PC and are consequently independant of patch version and work for online missions. The down side is they make a much bigger file for the same mission so they're harder to transfer via the internet (though still quite manageable).

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Salut
Tully

Tully__
02-22-2004, 08:21 AM
PS. High speed approach in a P-47 will be my next demo, just for you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Salut
Tully

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-22-2004, 08:29 AM
Thanks Tully. One last que., does the .ntrk record view movement with TrackIR? I suspect not.

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Tully__
02-22-2004, 08:56 AM
Two tracks in this pack (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/p47s.zip).

You should view p47overheadlanding.ntrk first, it's a rough approximation of a standard military overhead pattern. The first turn should ideally be made right over the middle of the runway at about 200mph (320km/h) and 350m (1100ft) alt. I was high and early http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

p47hotlanding.ntrk is the hot landing you requested, 600km/h (about 375mph) fast enough? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's a variation of the first one with the intial pass made at not much above dust raising level, using a climbing turn instead of level to wash off the excess speed.

Edit: Am I imagining things or did a post just go missing here?

And .ntrk's do show whatever view mode the recorder used, provided you leave "manual view control" off (down position on the switch), but I'm using mouse emulation on the joystick POV hat, not TrackIR.

Another edit: spelling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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Salut
Tully

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Sun February 22 2004 at 08:59 AM.]

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-22-2004, 09:16 AM
Thanks muchly. And you're right, Old_Canuck's post has disappeared http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
Perhaps a change of heart for some reason?
Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

gnadal
02-22-2004, 12:51 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gifThanks to all for your help, specially to Tully for this great movie. Now I can land I-16 without breaking landing gear almost all times, even in small grass airfields http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

plumps_
02-22-2004, 08:01 PM
There can be various approaches to landing a P-47. Tully's seems to be that of a professional pilot who is eager to keep his license. I however have nothing to lose and here's my approach to bringing down a P-47 from 5000 m altitude onto a short runway (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/P47landing-plumps.zip).

-----------------------------------
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Kampagne für IL-2 1.2: I-16 - Kampf im Kaukasus (Deutsch) (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/kampagne.html)

Tully__
02-23-2004, 01:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by plumps_:
There can be various approaches to landing a P-47. Tully's seems to be that of a professional pilot who is eager to keep his license. I however have nothing to lose and http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/P47landing-plumps.zip.&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/P47landing-plumps.zip.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

I don't seem to recall seeing that technique in any military text books....... or even in any real world combat accounts......ooooh, I'm dizzy.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif



http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Edit: my tracks are aimed at getting people confident with landing in a repeatable fashion. Once the basics are down, you can begin to add those sorts of embelishments with much greater ease because you're now familiar with the energy state and attitude you're aiming at for an effective landing.

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Salut
Tully

Wolkenbeisser
02-23-2004, 03:44 AM
Hmmmm. I have no problems with the landing of any plane, but...

How can I take off with a plane that touches the runway (LaGG-3 etc.) with the wing, before it's airborne?

I tried everything:

- pushing throttle very sloooooowly
- using only 1/2 power for take-off

No chance! Pressing the stick in the other direction won't help either (not enough airflow around the wing yet?).

So, how you guy's do that???

Fliegergrüsse

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/meyera/Bilder/Wolkenbeisser1a.jpg

Slush69
02-23-2004, 03:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolkenbeisser:
Hmmmm. I have no problems with the landing of any plane, but...

How can I take off with a plane that touches the runway (LaGG-3 etc.) with the wing, before it's airborne?

I tried everything:

- pushing throttle very sloooooowly
- using only 1/2 power for take-off

No chance! Pressing the stick in the other direction won't help either (not enough airflow around the wing yet?).

So, how you guy's do that???

Fliegergrüsse

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. For "nice" takeoffs in taildraggers, you should advance the throttle slowly, gently push forward on the stick to raise the tail, counter the torque that typically makes your right wing want to dip with gentle pressure and use the rudder to keep on the runway until you reach airborne speed. That procedure is no different in the LaGG-3.

cheers/slush

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Tully__
02-23-2004, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolkenbeisser:
Hmmmm. I have no problems with the landing of any plane, but...

How can I take off with a plane that touches the runway (LaGG-3 etc.) with the wing, before it's airborne?

I tried everything:

- pushing throttle very sloooooowly
- using only 1/2 power for take-off

No chance! Pressing the stick in the other direction won't help either (not enough airflow around the wing yet?).

So, how you guy's do that???

Fliegergrüsse

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/meyera/Bilder/Wolkenbeisser1a.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try the I-153 sometime http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As suggested, push the stick forward and accelerate at reduced throttle until the tail comes off the ground, then ease slowly up to full throttle.

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Salut
Tully

Tully__
02-23-2004, 05:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolkenbeisser:
Hmmmm. I have no problems with the landing of any plane, but...

How can I take off with a plane that touches the runway (LaGG-3 etc.) with the wing, before it's airborne?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try these (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/2takeoffs.zip) for samples, one early LaGG3, one in the I-153. Watch the joystick and rudder pedals. The joystick hardly moves sideways at all, the corrections all come from the pedals.

You'll also notice that the LaGG requires left rudder to stay on the runway while the I-153 requires right rudder.

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Salut
Tully

Wolkenbeisser
02-23-2004, 09:43 AM
Thanks Tully! I'll try tonight (...until my fingers bleed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

Fliegergrüsse

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/meyera/Bilder/Wolkenbeisser1a.jpg

Wolkenbeisser
02-24-2004, 01:10 AM
Hi Tully

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

push the stick forward and accelerate at reduced throttle until the tail comes off the ground, then ease slowly up to full throttle.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Pushing the Stick forward" was the thing I was doing wrong. So everything ok for now (I still have to practise, but that's ok).

Fliegergrüsse

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/meyera/Bilder/Wolkenbeisser1a.jpg