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Witchge8
12-15-2017, 10:59 AM
This game should be all abot making your opponents mistake parry timings. Dont fuq up this by making that you get only light after a parry

Devils-_-legacy
12-15-2017, 11:35 AM
So keep the defensive meta why it's the easiest thing to do parry heavy/parry gb heavy rinse repeate imo I can't wait for parry changes

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 11:39 AM
It depends on various factors: which class you are playing (determins if you get a heavy off a guardbreak) and which class your opponent is (determins if you get a guaranteed guardbreak off a parry or only if you are close enough). If you parry a light you mostly get a free heavy.

So, what exactly do you mean? Off a light you get a guardbreak guaranteed which leads to a guaranteed heavy for most classes. Alot of classes even get a free heavy guaranteed on a parried light.

Koncrissant
12-15-2017, 11:49 AM
Cant wait for the Parry change!

PDXGorechild
12-15-2017, 12:20 PM
This game should be all abot making your opponents mistake parry timings. Dont fuq up this by making that you get only light after a parry

I disagree. This game is too heavily based around parry currently. It should be a valuable mechanic for those with the confidence to pull it off. The fact it mitigates chip damage, gives you the initiative for the next attack and drains a load of stamina is enough in my mind. Even without the free damage it's still highly preferable to simply blocking if you have the skills. Having loads of free damage from a defensive move makes the game boring I think. Most classes end up resorting to the exact same tactic every time of Parry > free heavy and barely even have to use any of their unique movesets.

Saying the game should be all about making your opponent mistake parry timings makes things very linear. This game should be about a mix of things; Having good, varied mix up's for your attacks as to be unpredictable, using movement and positioning within the environment to your advantage, reading your opponents attacks, blocking consistently and parrying at an opportune moments, making use of feints and counter-attacks, etc.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:04 PM
So keep the defensive meta why it's the easiest thing to do parry heavy/parry gb heavy rinse repeate imo I can't wait for parry changes

So you just want to block and swing??? What the dumb game that would be. Just try with a friend some matches and hit just light after a parry and you would see. This game should be around mind games and messing your opponents parry timing and not just wildly swinging and blocking

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:08 PM
@PDXGorechild So you want when your opponent goes to offencive to just block unti he finishes his combo, mix up??? Thats what i call boring

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:11 PM
Cant wait for the Parry change!

Try this game with your friend and just do a light after a parry... You dont know what you wish for...

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:16 PM
It depends on various factors: which class you are playing (determins if you get a heavy off a guardbreak) and which class your opponent is (determins if you get a guaranteed guardbreak off a parry or only if you are close enough). If you parry a light you mostly get a free heavy.

So, what exactly do you mean? Off a light you get a guardbreak guaranteed which leads to a guaranteed heavy for most classes. Alot of classes even get a free heavy guaranteed on a parried light.

The word is they want to change that and make thet you can get only a light hit after a parry, no gb, no heavy, only a light hit after any parry. Thus eliminate any need for parrying. dumbing things down to only swinging and blocking making deffencive meta even stronger. peopple thik they want that and that it would make game better, but trueth is they dont know what they wish for

PDXGorechild
12-15-2017, 01:17 PM
@PDXGorechild So you want when your opponent goes to offencive to just block unti he finishes his combo, mix up??? Thats what i call boring

I dodge more than I block, but here a little scenario for you:

Your opponent goes on the offensive. You block most of his attacks, and you think you're able to predict his next attack with your knowledge of class combo's and having a feel for your opponents style. BAM, you parry the next hit. Your opponent is already low on stamina from launching a volley of attacks at you, and you've taken some chip damage, but it's all worth it because although the parry doesn't allow a free heavy, it drains the rest of their stamina. No chip damage, your opponent is now on the back-foot and you've changed the tide of the fight as he is now out of stamina. Get him on the ground and pound away.

Does this not sound more interesting than two people staring at each other, waiting to bait eachother into a parry for a free heavy or GB, rinse and repeat?

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 01:23 PM
The word is they want to change that and make thet you can get only a light hit after a parry, no gb, no heavy, only a light hit after any parry. Thus eliminate any need for parrying. dumbing things down to only swinging and blocking making deffencive meta even stronger. peopple thik they want that and that it would make game better, but trueth is they dont know what they wish for

I don't think you even understand what the defence meta is, or was. The reason we had a defence meta in the first place was because parry was too strong, not blocking. What punish do you get from just blocking? Unless you are LB, most likely nothing. You will just eat chip damage. Now if you parry, you mitigate that chip damage, drain stamina and set yourself up to do maximum damage to your opponent, all while just waiting and doing nothing. Do you see the difference?

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:23 PM
I disagree. This game is too heavily based around parry currently. It should be a valuable mechanic for those with the confidence to pull it off. The fact it mitigates chip damage, gives you the initiative for the next attack and drains a load of stamina is enough in my mind. Even without the free damage it's still highly preferable to simply blocking if you have the skills. Having loads of free damage from a defensive move makes the game boring I think. Most classes end up resorting to the exact same tactic every time of Parry > free heavy and barely even have to use any of their unique movesets.

Saying the game should be all about making your opponent mistake parry timings makes things very linear. This game should be about a mix of things; Having good, varied mix up's for your attacks as to be unpredictable, using movement and positioning within the environment to your advantage, reading your opponents attacks, blocking consistently and parrying at an opportune moments, making use of feints and counter-attacks, etc.

Blocking is even esyier then parrying. you want to bait out those parry attempts of your opponent and punish it. if he has no need to parry, hi will just block not givin you any opportynitu to punish anythin. making game more defencive

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:30 PM
I dodge more than I block, but here a little scenario for you:

Your opponent goes on the offensive. You block most of his attacks, and you think you're able to predict his next attack with your knowledge of class combo's and having a feel for your opponents style. BAM, you parry the next hit. Your opponent is already low on stamina from launching a volley of attacks at you, and you've taken some chip damage, but it's all worth it because although the parry doesn't allow a free heavy, it drains the rest of their stamina. No chip damage, your opponent is now on the back-foot and you've changed the tide of the fight as he is now out of stamina. Get him on the ground and pound away.

Does this not sound more interesting than two people staring at each other, waiting to bait eachother into a parry for a free heavy or GB, rinse and repeat?

If you dodge alot your opponent will easily faint attack and gb you. That scenario only on paipper, opponent quality one will menage stamina and will never be without some

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 01:33 PM
Parry rewards are too high, that made turtling and waiting for a parry too good. And classes that do not have any unblockable melee from neutral are almost obsolete when facing a player who does this extensively.

Parrying a heavy needs the guaranteed heavy / gb from some classes removed. On a parried light, maybe some classes should still get it. But I would prefer it the way described: only stamina damage. Then give every class the ability to "bait out a parry attempt" - like Raider Zone or Gladiator Skewer. This way parrying will still be good to get the enemy exhausted and profit from it. They took some steps in that direction already by raising chip damage on blocks and making block while exhausted not interrupt chains.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:35 PM
I don't think you even understand what the defence meta is, or was. The reason we had a defence meta in the first place was because parry was too strong, not blocking. What punish do you get from just blocking? Unless you are LB, most likely nothing. You will just eat chip damage. Now if you parry, you mitigate that chip damage, drain stamina and set yourself up to do maximum damage to your opponent, all while just waiting and doing nothing. Do you see the difference?

Blocking recuaers no skill. Parrying does, especially if your opponent is trying to baite those parrys and mixing it up so you miss parry timeing

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 01:40 PM
Parry rewards are too high, that made turtling and waiting for a parry too good. And classes that do not have any unblockable melee from neutral are almost obsolete when facing a player who does this extensively.

Parrying a heavy needs the guaranteed heavy / gb from some classes removed. On a parried light, maybe some classes should still get it. But I would prefer it the way described: only stamina damage. Then give every class the ability to "bait out a parry attempt" - like Raider Zone or Gladiator Skewer. This way parrying will still be good to get the enemy exhausted and profit from it. They took some steps in that direction already by raising chip damage on blocks and making block while exhausted not interrupt chains.

Thats what my point is. You dont need unblockable to make opponent want to parry you, if a parry punish/reward is high he will always want that parry. if you midgate parry punish/reward you eliminate that element of the game. making it dumb

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 01:46 PM
Thats what my point is. You dont need unblockable to make opponent want to parry you, if a parry punish/reward is high he will always want that parry. if you midgate parry punish/reward you eliminate that element of the game. making it dumb

No, you dont make it obsolete by removing the damage. You make stamina management more important. And by removing the damage component you kill the turtle-meta, and that is what we all want. You will still want to parry, but it is not the only tool you need to win the fight anymore.

PDXGorechild
12-15-2017, 02:06 PM
No, you dont make it obsolete by removing the damage. You make stamina management more important. And by removing the damage component you kill the turtle-meta, and that is what we all want. You will still want to parry, but it is not the only tool you need to win the fight anymore.

In a nutshell.

Witchge8, You will still be able to bait Parry's even if they don't grant a free heavy or GB.

Another Scenario: You throw some attacks at your opponent, a few get through, a few get blocked, and your stamina is running low. You know a good opponent will be looking to risk parrying you soon to put you out of stamina. Knowing this, you feint a heavy attack in a chain and go for a guard break instead.

My point is that Parry will still be a very useful mechanic, but a situational one where you will have to actually think about the timing and when it's worth taking a risk to use it. Rather than using the subsequent free heavy attacks as your main source of damage.

bananaflow2017
12-15-2017, 02:11 PM
No, you dont make it obsolete by removing the damage. You make stamina management more important. And by removing the damage component you kill the turtle-meta, and that is what we all want. You will still want to parry, but it is not the only tool you need to win the fight anymore.

Lets das it this way:
High Level play has got no real variation of play style.
There are 2 options:
1: parry gives high rewards, so everyone will try to parry.
2: parry doesnt give rewards that are high enough, so nobody will Play for parries and other mechanics will replace it. Sth like dodge atacks or deflects because they are the other safe source of dmg. Same as counter strikes.

So if u remove the parry, you will move several characters directly into trash tier.

When parry isnt worth the risk, u will also see 2 people only chipping down each other for hours...

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 02:26 PM
Lets das it this way:
High Level play has got no real variation of play style.
There are 2 options:
1: parry gives high rewards, so everyone will try to parry.
2: parry doesnt give rewards that are high enough, so nobody will Play for parries and other mechanics will replace it. Sth like dodge atacks or deflects because they are the other safe source of dmg. Same as counter strikes.

So if u remove the parry, you will move several characters directly into trash tier.

When parry isnt worth the risk, u will also see 2 people only chipping down each other for hours...

Right now parry is too strong giving stamina damage, knocking OOS targets down, preventing any damage AND dealing a ton of damage guaranteed after. That makes parrying by far the best move in the game. Why would it be "useless" if you just remove one component? What if parrying a heavy gives you only a light instead of massive heavy damage?

Parrying will still be good enough to do it - because getting an enemy OOS will be more valuable after some OG classes got their reworks. Right now that is what makes Centurion, Shaman, Gladiator and Raider so strong - having mixups that can punish OOS very very hard. Imo that should be the standard for every class. And removing the heavy damage from just standing there, waiting for a parry, will make the game less stale.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 02:33 PM
No, you dont make it obsolete by removing the damage. You make stamina management more important. And by removing the damage component you kill the turtle-meta, and that is what we all want. You will still want to parry, but it is not the only tool you need to win the fight anymore.

No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 02:35 PM
In a nutshell.

Witchge8, You will still be able to bait Parry's even if they don't grant a free heavy or GB.

Another Scenario: You throw some attacks at your opponent, a few get through, a few get blocked, and your stamina is running low. You know a good opponent will be looking to risk parrying you soon to put you out of stamina. Knowing this, you feint a heavy attack in a chain and go for a guard break instead.

My point is that Parry will still be a very useful mechanic, but a situational one where you will have to actually think about the timing and when it's worth taking a risk to use it. Rather than using the subsequent free heavy attacks as your main source of damage.

you wont trow any ataccks low on stamina , especily you wont faint one becouse that costs stamina too

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 02:38 PM
Right now parry is too strong giving stamina damage, knocking OOS targets down, preventing any damage AND dealing a ton of damage guaranteed after. That makes parrying by far the best move in the game. Why would it be "useless" if you just remove one component? What if parrying a heavy gives you only a light instead of massive heavy damage?

Parrying will still be good enough to do it - because getting an enemy OOS will be more valuable after some OG classes got their reworks. Right now that is what makes Centurion, Shaman, Gladiator and Raider so strong - having mixups that can punish OOS very very hard. Imo that should be the standard for every class. And removing the heavy damage from just standing there, waiting for a parry, will make the game less stale.

you dont wait for the parry if your opponent faint in to light or in to heavy or in to gb hi is gonna fuq you up if you just wait for the parry

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 02:39 PM
Lets das it this way:
High Level play has got no real variation of play style.
There are 2 options:
1: parry gives high rewards, so everyone will try to parry.
2: parry doesnt give rewards that are high enough, so nobody will Play for parries and other mechanics will replace it. Sth like dodge atacks or deflects because they are the other safe source of dmg. Same as counter strikes.

So if u remove the parry, you will move several characters directly into trash tier.

When parry isnt worth the risk, u will also see 2 people only chipping down each other for hours...

Exactly

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 02:55 PM
Just blocking wont let you win the fight. Just blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...

PDXGorechild
12-15-2017, 03:15 PM
you wont trow any ataccks low on stamina , especily you wont faint one becouse that costs stamina too

You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.

bananaflow2017
12-15-2017, 03:27 PM
Right now parry is too strong giving stamina damage, knocking OOS targets down, preventing any damage AND dealing a ton of damage guaranteed after. That makes parrying by far the best move in the game. Why would it be "useless" if you just remove one component? What if parrying a heavy gives you only a light instead of massive heavy damage?

Parrying will still be good enough to do it - because getting an enemy OOS will be more valuable after some OG classes got their reworks. Right now that is what makes Centurion, Shaman, Gladiator and Raider so strong - having mixups that can punish OOS very very hard. Imo that should be the standard for every class. And removing the heavy damage from just standing there, waiting for a parry, will make the game less stale.

The most important thing in a parry is the safe source of dmg.
With some characters it's impossible to reach or even dmg the enemy if a parry would gurantee any dmg. When im Thinking of a good noobushi... actually Im playing warden a bit and the only way to hurt her is a parry or a crushing counter.... otherwise i simply cant reach her....
Im tottally with u, that parry is a mess actually. It's the bread and butter move of every character.... I just want to point out, that this will not solve the problem, that reliable reacting to an atack with a safe dmg fallow up will allways be king.
No matter if it's a parry or a crushing counter from a warden or a highlander.
On the other hand atacking will be a very safe thing. For example if you fight a pk.
The best way to get her is to vsit out a dodge atack, just to parry her and start your turn. Otherwise it's nearly impossible to catch her with a vanguard.

The consequences of the parry removal of the safe dmg removal of the parry will be, that people will still stare and feint atacks, just to deflect, counter crush, dodge atack....
This will simply do the same thing. There is a lot more to do if you just remove the parry...
You will have to change a lot of this mechanics that will so simular Stuff to parries.

1 last question: whats the risk of doing dodge atacks when parrying doesnt hurt u anymore?

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 03:39 PM
Just blocking wont let you win the fight.
Just blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...

Looks like your level of play is kindergarden. For exsample if you wait for parry light you have to react amidiytly but you oponent hits heavy, you get fuqt up, or you wait for heavy you oponent faints havy into light, heavy or gb, you get fuqt up. And thats just basics. So as long you oponent trys to parry hi get fuqt up. Elimnate that and you have game just swinging and blokira. Defencive meta in this game is made by defencive caracters and player with bad openers who has only option to deffend and counter

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 03:56 PM
Just blocking wont let you win th
e fight. Just blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...


You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.

For exsample if you wait for parry light you have to react amidiytly but you oponent hits heavy, you get fuqt up, or you wait for heavy you oponent faints havy into light, heavy or gb, you get fuqt up. And thats just basics. So as long you oponent trys to parry hi get fuqt up. And you can open up a good player by making him atempt to parry. Elimnate that and you have game just swinging and blocking. Defencive meta in this game is made by defencive caracters and player with bad openers who has only option to deffend and counter
If game should be acording to you fights will be chipping damage, blocking and lights. Boring Boring boring

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 04:03 PM
The most important thing in a parry is the safe source of dmg.
With some characters it's impossible to reach or even dmg the enemy if a parry would gurantee any dmg. When im Thinking of a good noobushi... actually Im playing warden a bit and the only way to hurt her is a parry or a crushing counter.... otherwise i simply cant reach her....
Im tottally with u, that parry is a mess actually. It's the bread and butter move of every character.... I just want to point out, that this will not solve the problem, that reliable reacting to an atack with a safe dmg fallow up will allways be king.
No matter if it's a parry or a crushing counter from a warden or a highlander.
On the other hand atacking will be a very safe thing. For example if you fight a pk.
The best way to get her is to vsit out a dodge atack, just to parry her and start your turn. Otherwise it's nearly impossible to catch her with a vanguard.

The consequences of the parry removal of the safe dmg removal of the parry will be, that people will still stare and feint atacks, just to deflect, counter crush, dodge atack....
This will simply do the same thing. There is a lot more to do if you just remove the parry...
You will have to change a lot of this mechanics that will so simular Stuff to parries.

1 last question: whats the risk of doing dodge atacks when parrying doesnt hurt u anymore?

1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

Edit: I wont talk to Witchge8 anymore. His arguments only show that he has no idea how a real turtle fight looks.

His profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Witchge8
Mine: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

You can decide for yourself who has a better knowledge of the game. But I have to admit that his platform and skill-rating could be influencing his view on the game.

PDXGorechild
12-15-2017, 04:07 PM
Looks like your level of play is kindergarden. For exsample if you wait for parry light you have to react amidiytly but you oponent hits heavy, you get fuqt up, or you wait for heavy you oponent faints havy into light, heavy or gb, you get fuqt up. And thats just basics. So as long you oponent trys to parry hi get fuqt up. Elimnate that and you have game just swinging and blokira. Defencive meta in this game is made by defencive caracters and player with bad openers who has only option to deffend and counter

Let me break it down for you.

A successful parry does 4 things currently:

1. Stops all incoming damage that you would take from the attack or from chip damage.
2. Grants you a guaranteed heavy attack or guard break leading to a guaranteed heavy attack (or possibly even wallsplat/ledge).
3. Drains enemy stamina
4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back.

Thatís leaving out the fact that it can floor opponents while revenge is up.

It is the opinion of most of the experienced players on these and other forums that by removing one of those (number 2) aspects, or even just reducing it, parry will still be worth the risk associated but will stop rewarding overly defensive play.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 04:11 PM
Just blocking wont let you win thefight.Just
st blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...


You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.


1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

First deflect is used insted of parrying for opponents with long range weapons. Second if you try to parry faints into light or gb and some times in to heavy you get punished. Not to mention if you try to parry heavy expecting light you also get punished for all your parry atempts

bananaflow2017
12-15-2017, 04:11 PM
1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

1. Thats the problem deflect will become to strong.
2. On gladiator, zerker, shaman and orochi itis strong espicially when parry gets nerfed.
3.see 1.
4. Parry is countered by heavy feint into light ans if ur fast enough into gb.
5. Warlord has a simular move and valk has this with her light.
6. Thats simply not true. If you dein that heavy the time for gb is usually other. Usually feint into nothing so u can parry that dodge atack.

Kyloooo1337
12-15-2017, 04:20 PM
So you just want to block and swing??? What the dumb game that would be. Just try with a friend some matches and hit just light after a parry and you would see. This game should be around mind games and messing your opponents parry timing and not just wildly swinging and blocking


this ^^^

This game is literally pure minds games which is what makes the combat so intense. Top level players can literally block/parry EVERY move. A lot of players in this game seem to think that blocking and parrying defines the fight, buts its not, its the feints. When you see that guy has one swing left on his stamina, draw for that feint heavy, make him break his own stamina. If hes got two swings left in him get brave and make him swing twice. Push your limits. Control the battlefield. Crush his spirit. Thats how you win fights lol, make em scared for that rematch.

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 04:21 PM
1. Thats the problem deflect will become to strong.
2. On gladiator, zerker, shaman and orochi itis strong espicially when parry gets nerfed.
3.see 1.
4. Parry is countered by heavy feint into light ans if ur fast enough into gb.
5. Warlord has a simular move and valk has this with her light.
6. Thats simply not true. If you dein that heavy the time for gb is usually other. Usually feint into nothing so u can parry that dodge atack.

1. Right now parry is too strong. Nerf parry, then adjust Deflect to make it high risk - high reward.
2. Yes, but they all have Reflex Guard. You get it? Upsides - Downsides. Also Deflect is really bad vs any class with hyperarmor. Parrying is good on everybody.
3. see 1
4. A parry is not countered by anything. Never seen that flashing red indicator? Not feintable anymore...
5. Alright, then it is 4 classes out of 20. And, tbh, using Crushing Counters is right now, in alot of situations, better than parrying (depending on ledge possibility).
6. That IS true. You can GB people out of Dodge Attacks in startup. Feint heavy and immediately press GB - untechable GB (except Raider...).

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 04:25 PM
this ^^^

This game is literally pure minds games which is what makes the combat so intense. Top level players can literally block/parry EVERY move. A lot of players in this game seem to think that blocking and parrying defines the fight, buts its not, its the feints. When you see that guy has one swing left on his stamina, draw for that feint heavy, make him break his own stamina. If hes got two swings left in him get brave and make him swing twice. Push your limits. Control the battlefield. Crush his spirit. Thats how you win fights lol, make em scared for that rematch.

But this will NOT change if the damage component of parrying is lowered or removed. It intensifies the mindgames because Attacking will be necessary, right now it just isnt. Take Raider, wait for a parry into Stampede into Knee into side heavy / stunning tap mixup. Or Lawbringer parry into high damage top heavy. Or Berserker wall stagger top heavy. Or Centurion Cutscene. Or Shugoki wall stagger into demon embrace. There are players that literally DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE than these moves right now, because parry is too rewarding.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 04:26 PM
Just blocking wont let you win the fight.
Just blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...


You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.


1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

Edit: I wont talk to Witchge8 anymore. His arguments only show that he has no idea how a real turtle fight looks.

His profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Witchge8
Mine: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

You can decide for yourself who has a better knowledge of the game. But I have to admit that his platform and skill-rating could be influencing his view on the game.


Let me break it down for you.

A successful parry does 4 things currently:

1. Stops all incoming damage that you would take from the attack or from chip damage.
2. Grants you a guaranteed heavy attack or guard break leading to a guaranteed heavy attack (or possibly even wallsplat/ledge).
3. Drains enemy stamina
4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back.

Thatís leaving out the fact that it can floor opponents while revenge is up.

It is the opinion of most of the experienced players on these and other forums that by removing one of those (number 2) aspects, or even just reducing it, parry will still be worth the risk associated but will stop rewarding overly defensive play.

4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back
That will keep game exciting potentially turnig a losing game and not just quit fight. Ask those expiriaced players to play fiugh matches with only a light after parry. Defencive meta make caracters with bad openers who have only one option to deffend and counter becouse all of their start attacks are bad. And defencive player, not parry punish.
Parry punish makes game more lush and diverce. And if you watched latest 1v1 tournamet hosted by blanchard gameing, its on YouTube. Played by probably best players right now. You can see that defencive / turttle meta is practicly nonexsistant

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 04:34 PM
4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back
That will keep game exciting potentially turnig a losing game and not just quit fight. Ask those expiriaced players to play fiugh matches with only a light after parry. Defencive meta make caracters with bad openers who have only one option to deffend and counter becouse all of their start attacks are bad. And defencive player, not parry punish.
Parry punish makes game more lush and diverce. And if you watched latest 1v1 tournamet hosted by blanchard gameing, its on YouTube. Played by probably best players right now. You can see that defencive / turttle meta is practicly nonexsistant

You mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf3EkvXO34E&list=PLfgHZUyBWlrrqgdnlIywPwF-s6mK8KHSw

Watched the first fight, the Valk ONLY did the punish after a parry. LOL. Gonna watch some more later, but that first 3:0 was a complete Turtle Meta fight of that Valk. Parry into high punishing moves.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 04:40 PM
Just blocking wont let you win the fight. Just blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...


You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.


1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

Edit: I wont talk to Witchge8 anymore. His arguments only show that he has no idea how a real turtle fight looks.

His profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Witchge8
Mine: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

You can decide for yourself who has a better knowledge of the game. But I have to admit that his platform and skill-rating could be influencing his view on the game.


Let me break it down for you.

A successful parry does 4 things currently:

1. Stops all incoming damage that you would take from the attack or from chip damage.
2. Grants you a guaranteed heavy attack or guard break leading to a guaranteed heavy attack (or possibly even wallsplat/ledge).
3. Drains enemy stamina
4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back.

Thatís leaving out the fact that it can floor opponents while revenge is up.

It is the opinion of most of the experienced players on these and other forums that by removing one of those (number 2) aspects, or even just reducing it, parry will still be worth the risk associated but will stop rewarding overly defensive play.

Lol your profil shows who has better understanding of the game with your 4 played caracters

PDXGorechild
12-15-2017, 04:43 PM
But this will NOT change if the damage component of parrying is lowered or removed. It intensifies the mindgames because Attacking will be necessary, right now it just isnt. Take Raider, wait for a parry into Stampede into Knee into side heavy / stunning tap mixup. Or Lawbringer parry into high damage top heavy. Or Berserker wall stagger top heavy. Or Centurion Cutscene. Or Shugoki wall stagger into demon embrace. There are players that literally DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE than these moves right now, because parry is too rewarding.

Or Warlords harsh punish. Or shinobiís sickle rain. I can only get so far out of gold rank on tournaments before every opponent I encounter does this. They very rarely, if ever, throw an attack you. Just sit and wait for a parry. Do some heavy or combo. Sit there and wait for a parry again. Do the same combo again. Rinse and repeat. Game over. Totally ruins my experience and makes the game linear and boring. Then I lose a rank, so I end up not even bothering to play tournament.


4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back
That will keep game exciting potentially turnig a losing game and not just quit fight. Ask those expiriaced players to play fiugh matches with only a light after parry. Defencive meta make caracters with bad openers who have only one option to deffend and counter becouse all of their start attacks are bad. And defencive player, not parry punish.
Parry punish makes game more lush and diverce. And if you watched latest 1v1 tournamet hosted by blanchard gameing, its on YouTube. Played by probably best players right now. You can see that defencive / turttle meta is practicly nonexsistant

As Iíve said I just plain disagree. I donít think it makes the game more diverse and lush. I think it does the complete opposite of that by making the whole game based on a single move and subsequent punishes.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 04:46 PM
Just blocking wont let you win the fight. Just blocking and parrying does right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...


You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.


1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

Edit: I wont talk to Witchge8 anymore. His arguments only show that he has no idea how a real turtle fight looks.

His profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Witchge8
Mine: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

You can decide for yourself who has a better knowledge of the game. But I have to admit that his platform and skill-rating could be influencing his view on the game.


Let me break it down for you.

A successful parry does 4 things currently:

1. Stops all incoming damage that you would take from the attack or from chip damage.
2. Grants you a guaranteed heavy attack or guard break leading to a guaranteed heavy attack (or possibly even wallsplat/ledge).
3. Drains enemy stamina
4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back.

Thatís leaving out the fact that it can floor opponents while revenge is up.

It is the opinion of most of the experienced players on these and other forums that by removing one of those (number 2) aspects, or even just reducing it, parry will still be worth the risk associated but will stop rewarding overly defensive play.


You mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf3EkvXO34E&list=PLfgHZUyBWlrrqgdnlIywPwF-s6mK8KHSw

Watched the first fight, the Valk ONLY did the punish after a parry. LOL. Gonna watch some more later, but that first 3:0 was a complete Turtle Meta fight of that Valk. Parry into high punishing moves.

Yes that one. Watch whole turnament especially finals with highest quality of play. And see for your self. NO TURTLE METTA

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 04:54 PM
Just blocking wont let you win the fight. Just blocking and parrying does
right now. So no, reducing parry damage will not "make turtle meta stronger". It will force players to attack.

What exactly is "gonna fuq you up" if you keep blocking and wait for a parry to deal heavy damage?

You know that you do not give ANY explanation to your arguments, do you? You just say "it is like that" but give no further information why it would be like that. Discussion level Kindergarten...


You'd be less likely to throw attacks on low on stamina due to the fact parry could still force you out of stamina - potentially a death sentence. Especially against my Berserker with an 80 damage punish ;)

I honestly can't see where you're coming from or make sense of your opinions man.

"No, youmake turtle meta stromger, everone just blocks no one trys to parry its noth worth risk / reward" - False. Blocking constantly is not a good idea due to chip damage. Parry will no longer grant huge amounts of damage, hopefully, meaning you will have to attack to do damage. Why is it so hard a concept to grasp?

The turtle meta is still a thing and is only a thing because of parry and the way it is now. I've been against players in tournaments who do nothing but block and parry. That means they can get your health taken from 100% > 0% entirely from heavy attacks that were guaranteed to land. Your opponent never had to launch one of their own attacks. Never had to think of mix up's. Never used a combo. Never had to try to predict which way you would block. Never had to feint to trick you. They just sat there, waiting for you to throw an attack that they can parry to get a guaranteed heavy attack in return. Thus, on PlayStation, all you need to win a game is the thumb-sticks and R2 button.

Boring. Boring. Boring.


1. Not every class has Deflect moves.
2. Right now - Deflect is high risk - low reward.
3. Deflect rarely gets used today because a parry is better in every way.
4. Deflect is "countered" by a feinted move into GB - parry is not countered by anything.
5. Crushing Counters are available to 2 (Warden and Highlander?) classes - is that your argument? And Warden has it only on Top Attacks plus it is a punishable move - you can feint a heavy and parry their Crushing Counter. Again, it is punishable, parry is not.
6. Doing Dodge-Attacks is risky because you can get GB. What is the risk of blocking and waiting for a parry?

Edit: I wont talk to Witchge8 anymore. His arguments only show that he has no idea how a real turtle fight looks.

His profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Witchge8
Mine: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

You can decide for yourself who has a better knowledge of the game. But I have to admit that his platform and skill-rating could be influencing his view on the game.


Let me break it down for you.

A successful parry does 4 things currently:

1. Stops all incoming damage that you would take from the attack or from chip damage.
2. Grants you a guaranteed heavy attack or guard break leading to a guaranteed heavy attack (or possibly even wallsplat/ledge).
3. Drains enemy stamina
4. Turns the tide of the fight by stopping your opponent and pushing them back.

Thatís leaving out the fact that it can floor opponents while revenge is up.

It is the opinion of most of the experienced players on these and other forums that by removing one of those (number 2) aspects, or even just reducing it, parry will still be worth the risk associated but will stop rewarding overly defensive play.


You mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf3EkvXO34E&list=PLfgHZUyBWlrrqgdnlIywPwF-s6mK8KHSw

Watched the first fight, the Valk ONLY did the punish after a parry. LOL. Gonna watch some more later, but that first 3:0 was a complete Turtle Meta fight of that Valk. Parry into high punishing moves.


Or Warlords harsh punish. Or shinobiís sickle rain. I can only get so far out of gold rank on tournaments before every opponent I encounter does this. They very rarely, if ever, throw an attack you. Just sit and wait for a parry. Do some heavy or combo. Sit there and wait for a parry again. Do the same combo again. Rinse and repeat. Game over. Totally ruins my experience and makes the game linear and boring. Then I lose a rank, so I end up not even bothering to play tournament.



As Iíve said I just plain disagree. I donít think it makes the game more diverse and lush. I think it does the complete opposite of that by making the whole game based on a single move and subsequent punishes.

You can bait out parry just like doge attack from the assassins and punish it. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND???

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 04:57 PM
Yes that one. Watch whole turnament especially finals with highest quality of play. And see for your self. NO TURTLE METTA

1. 4 played Characters - true. But playing in Top 10% bracket while you are, well, very mediocre in all your played characters.
2. Watched enough Matches now (4-5) and gotta say that the PC players are not very good tbh. And I have seen alot of "waiting for parry" except from the classes that do not need it (Shaman for example).

Sorry, your opinion is your thing, but I (and most of the community) will not change mine. Most of the community asked for changes to parry for months now, and if there are some crybabies who lose their favorite (cause OP) tool to win fights easymode - I dont mind.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 07:28 PM
1. 4 played Characters - true. But
playing in Top 10% bracket while you are, well, very mediocre in all your played characters.
2. Watched enough Matches now (4-5) and gotta say that the PC players are not very good tbh. And I have seen alot of "waiting for parry" except from the classes that do not need it (Shaman for example).

Sorry, your opinion is your thing, but I (and most of the community) will not change mine. Most of the community asked for changes to parry for months now, and if there are some crybabies who lose their favorite (cause OP) tool to win fights easymode - I dont mind.

Offcourse it is easy to get good results fully geard up lvl 180
Plus you can quit any loosing match. Statistics mean nothing in this game. Just watch community crys to bring parry changes back ones they try them. Im sorry you are not as good in this game as you want to be, but parry changes will not make you better in this game. But make this game very simple and boring. Parry mechanics are in this game from start for a reason, just mark my words wait and see...

bob333e
12-15-2017, 07:50 PM
Offcourse it is easy to get good results fully geard up lvl 180
Plus you can quit any loosing match. Statistics mean nothing in this game. Just watch community crys to bring parry changes back ones they try them. Im sorry you are not as good in this game as you want to be, but parry changes will not make you better in this game. But make this game very simple and boring. Parry mechanics are in this game from start for a reason, just mark my words wait and see...

As much as I'd hate to chip in seeing as you already ignored previous facts and advice, I'll add something in the hopes of clearing up some confusion. Might be a repeat of what others said though.

In For Honor as it is, Parry yields a lot of reward for simply countering 1 attack. That in itself is abusable to a good extent, even if it takes the right timing, and no latency/lag, to land a parry, compared to just holding block in a given direction. Block has already been dealt with so that players get discouraged from being too passive, by adding fair chip damage when it's not a superior block.
With parry, you not only negate chip damage, but you also
1) drain opponent stamina
2) stagger opponent
3) free GB then free heavy or free throw
4) free side/top heavy depending if you parried a light or heavy attack
5) free light attack opener to initiate a combo, by guaranteeing the first hit because your opponent has been staggered
6) free knockdown of opponent if opponent is OOS

Now if they take away for instance, the guaranteed GB and guaranteed heavy on heavy parry, parry becomes a bit more fair and a bit less abusable. You can still parry normally, but your opponent can counter a GB attempt, and you can only land a heavy if you parried a light attack (which is logical seeing as parrying light attacks takes more reflex and attack-reading, especially during bad matchups).

As it is, if you just keep parrying (both light and heavy attacks) and scoring free heavies, you kill your opponent just with free heavies. That's without mentioning the ledging/enviro hazard potential because of the guaranteed GB after parry.

I understand that guaranteed heavies are one of your best ways of countering other heroes but individual playstyles do not account for the overall proper balancing of For Honor's combat system. Remember, what you feel comfy with and can abuse, others feel comfy with too and can abuse it too.

Concerning Defense Meta, it's essentially not attacking at all, just blocking and parrying. Waiting for your opponent to attack, then parry, free heavy. See where the problem is? too much of a reward for a passive play. For Honor has been gradually improving to discourage passive play, so removing guaranteed GB, and guaranteed heavy from heavy parry, are perfectly logical.

What Ubisoft said before about the parry changes that infuriated the playerbase, was removing ALL guaranteed heavies upon parry. Which was sorta nonsense. You should deserve to land a heavy if you parried a fast light attack.

That's basically it. Parry won't guarantee as much free damage but will still be very valid and very useful for tactical combat.

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 08:23 PM
Offcourse it is easy to get good results fully geard up lvl 180
Plus you can quit any loosing match. Statistics mean nothing in this game. Just watch community crys to bring parry changes back ones they try them. Im sorry you are not as good in this game as you want to be, but parry changes will not make you better in this game. But make this game very simple and boring. Parry mechanics are in this game from start for a reason, just mark my words wait and see...

Nice, now you call me a liar because I am not your opinion. Really adult argumentation... Also, Duels do not have gear stats and I referenced that particular mode. I do not feel "bad" because I am not "good" in this game, because I do not give a fck about epeen stuff. But you seem to. Having parry so rewarding makes this game boring in my opinion. It is just not your view, can you live with that? ;)

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 08:57 PM
As much as I'd hate to chip in seeing as you already ignored previous facts and advice, I'll add something in the hopes of clearing up some confusion. Might be a repeat of what others said though.

In For Honor as it is, Parry yields a lot of reward for simply countering 1 attack. That in itself is abusable to a good extent, even if it takes the right timing, and no latency/lag, to land a parry, compared to just holding block in a given direction. Block has already been dealt with so that players get discouraged from being too passive, by adding fair chip damage when it's not a superior block.
With parry, you not only negate chip damage, but you also
1) drain opponent stamina
2) stagger opponent
3) free GB then free heavy or free throw
4) free side/top heavy depending if you parried a light or heavy attack
5) free light attack opener to initiate a combo, by guaranteeing the first hit because your opponent has been staggered
6) free knockdown of opponent if opponent is OOS

Now if they take away for instance, the guaranteed GB and guaranteed heavy on heavy parry, parry becomes a bit more fair and a bit less abusable. You can still parry normally, but your opponent can counter a GB attempt, and you can only land a heavy if you parried a light attack (which is logical seeing as parrying light attacks takes more reflex and attack-reading, especially during bad matchups).

As it is, if you just keep parrying (both light and heavy attacks) and scoring free heavies, you kill your opponent just with free heavies. That's without mentioning the ledging/enviro hazard potential because of the guaranteed GB after parry.

I understand that guaranteed heavies are one of your best ways of countering other heroes but individual playstyles do not account for the overall proper balancing of For Honor's combat system. Remember, what you feel comfy with and can abuse, others feel comfy with too and can abuse it too.

Concerning Defense Meta, it's essentially not attacking at all, just blocking and parrying. Waiting for your opponent to attack, then parry, free heavy. See where the problem is? too much of a reward for a passive play. For Honor has been gradually improving to discourage passive play, so removing guaranteed GB, and guaranteed heavy from heavy parry, are perfectly logical.

What Ubisoft said before about the parry changes that infuriated the playerbase, was removing ALL guaranteed heavies upon parry. Which was sorta nonsense. You should deserve to land a heavy if you parried a fast light attack.

That's basically it. Parry won't guarantee as much free damage but will still be very valid and very useful for tactical combat.

Parry atempt is not defencive meta, you can bait out parry atempts and punsh it. Blocking is defenition of defencive meta. If you take parry rewards out there wont be any good reason to parry. Parrying is rare as it is in highes lvl of play. Players are just resort to blocking wich makes game more turtlier. You will eliminate the best thing in this game PARRY MINDEGAMES

bob333e
12-15-2017, 09:01 PM
Parry atempt is not defencive meta, you can bait out parry atempts and punsh it. Blocking is defenition of defencive meta. If you take parry rewards out there wont be any good reason to parry. Parrying is rare as it is in highes lvl of play. Players are just resort to blocking wich makes game more turtlier. You will eliminate the best thing in this game PARRY MINDEGAMES

How are parry mind games tied to guaranteed GB and guaranteed heavies upon parry? please enlighten.

Feints are an entirely different matter, try to stay on topic. The topic being, too much guaranteed, free stuff upon landing 1 parry.

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 09:17 PM
Parry atempt is not defencive meta, you can bait out parry atempts and punsh it. Blocking is defenition of defencive meta. If you take parry rewards out there wont be any good reason to parry. Parrying is rare as it is in highes lvl of play. Players are just resort to blocking wich makes game more turtlier. You will eliminate the best thing in this game PARRY MINDEGAMES

What did you not understand? The feint games will still be in game. And parry will have rewards. Just not every possible reward in one move combined... And btw, blocking is NOT defensive meta. You cannot win a match when you only block. But when you only block until you get a parry for guaranteed damage - you win.

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 09:24 PM
Parry atempt is not defencive meta, you can bait out parry atempts and punsh it. Blocking is defenition of defencive meta. If you take parry rewards out there wont be any good reason to parry. Parrying is rare as it is in highes lvl of play. Players are just resort to blocking wich makes game more turtlier. You will eliminate the best thing in this game PARRY MINDEGAMES

You really have no idea.

Parry is why we have a defence meta, that has been a fact from the very start. High Level players complained how boring it was sitting there and waiting for your opponent to do an attack and react to it in the form of parrying, because it is simply the most effective way to deal damage. If you loose the damage from heavy parrys, and all you are left with is blocking that yields almost no rewards, save high damage if the attacks hit you, and just gives you chip damage, why are you going to want to sit their and block? There is a defence meta because players wanted to sit and wait for a parry. No one is going to sit and just let an opponent hit them and block it all. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Parry will still turn the fight in your favour, put the enemy on the back foot and give you an advantage. Blocking will not, unless your opponent just spams thoughtlessly and goes OOS or feeds you revenge. If all I did was block in my skill level, I wouldn't be in my skill level. You need to realise you have the wrong idea of how the game works and will work.

And please, stop quoting 4-5 different comments in one, when it's not needed. Just creates so much clutter.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 09:37 PM
You really have no idea.

Parry is why we have a defence meta, that has been a fact from the very start. High Level players complained how boring it was sitting there and waiting for your opponent to do an attack and react to it in the form of parrying, because it is simply the most effective way to deal damage. If you loose the damage from heavy parrys, and all you are left with is blocking that yields almost no rewards, save high damage if the attacks hit you, and just gives you chip damage, why are you going to want to sit their and block? There is a defence meta because players wanted to sit and wait for a parry. No one is going to sit and just let an opponent hit them and block it all. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Parry will still turn the fight in your favour, put the enemy on the back foot and give you an advantage. Blocking will not, unless your opponent just spams thoughtlessly and goes OOS or feeds you revenge. If all I did was block in my skill level, I wouldn't be in my skill level. You need to realise you have the wrong idea of how the game works and will work.

And please, stop quoting 4-5 different comments in one, when it's not needed. Just creates so much clutter.

You sound like beguiner to me. Atempting parry is a reaction wich can be punished. Just blocking cant be punished and is definition of turtle meta. You dont want players to stop atempting to parry

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 09:42 PM
You sound like beguiner to me. Atempting parry is a reaction wich can be punished. Just blocking cant be punished and is definition of turtle meta. You dont want players to stop atempting to parry

I'm no where near a begginer. I've played since February and have 106 Reps, across many characters. Far more experience than you would think.

Again, you show you have no idea. Blocking is punished. Do you even know what chip damage is?? Did you even read what I said? Parry will still be attempted, because it will still be a more favourable and stronger option than block.

Maybe you are the begginer here?

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 09:42 PM
Just blocking IS punished by chip damage. And that is NOT the definition of turtle meta. Gosh, how many people have to tell you that fact. Go reddit and ask please...

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 09:43 PM
Nice, now you call me a liar because I am not your opinion. Really adult argumentation... Also, Duels do not have gear stats and I referenced that particular mode. I do not feel "bad" because I am not "good" in this game, because I do not give a fck about epeen stuff. But you seem to. Having parry so rewarding makes this game boring in my opinion. It is just not your view, can you live with that? ;)

Playing fiew caracters or only one, constantly practeceing makes you better then trying to learn them all. But learning all caracters makes you more compentent for the game

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 09:46 PM
I'm no where near a begginer. I've played since February and have 106 Reps, across many characters. Far more experience than you would think.

Again, you show you have no idea. Blocking is punished. Do you even know what chip damage is?? Did you even read what I said? Parry will still be attempted, because it will still be a more favourable and stronger option than block.

Maybe you are the begginer here?

If you midgate parry punish parryng wont be optimal to use. it would be safer to just block and trow some random lights

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 09:47 PM
How are parry mind games tied to guaranteed GB and guaranteed heavies upon parry? please enlighten.

Feints are an entirely different matter, try to stay on topic. The topic being, too much guaranteed, free stuff upon landing 1 parry.

If you midgate parry punish parryng wont be optimal to use. it would be safer to just block and trow some random lights

TheTool85
12-15-2017, 09:51 PM
I do not feel "bad" because I am not "good" in this game, because I do not give a fck about epeen stuff.

Hm.. if you were really thinking that way you wouln't have used fhtracker some posts ago to underline your argumentation...

bob333e
12-15-2017, 09:52 PM
Random lights.
Say, how exactly do you throw random lights at high level gameplay? aren't you worried you'll just... get parried? or worse, Crushing Counter on some characters?

Then when you get parried (which is what usually happens at high level gameplay against random lights) aren't you worried you're essentially giving your opponent free stuff upon free stuff?

So that's your idea of pro gameplay: random lights, block when in doubt, free heavies on parry, free GB on parry?

Don't you realize, you ARE talking about the defensive meta?

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 09:53 PM
Playing fiew caracters or only one, constantly practeceing makes you better then trying to learn them all. But learning all caracters makes you more compentent for the game

I'm playing since release. I do not need to play every character to know their moves and capabilities. I have studied that spreadsheet where every move is listed by speed and damage. And parry is still way too rewarding because there is no other move that gives so many advantages by being passive until you get it.

bob333e
12-15-2017, 09:57 PM
I'm playing since release. I do not need to play every character to know their moves and capabilities. I have studied that spreadsheet where every move is listed by speed and damage. And parry is still way too rewarding because there is no other move that gives so many advantages by being passive until you get it.

I'm afraid he's hopeless. He won't listen. Just like that other guy who belittled you and accused you of lying the other day.

I think I'm done with this guy. No matter how much we try, we won't get past his Brain Blockade. :')

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 10:04 PM
If you midgate parry punish parryng wont be optimal to use. it would be safer to just block and trow some random lights

How Is it safer? Taking chip damage and getting no benefit, versus no chip damage, stamina damage to the enemy, putting them on the back foot into recovery and giving to the advantage to push forward with your own combos.

I can tell now you are a beginner if you think throwing random lights is a safe thing to do.

AlexHuaTian
12-15-2017, 10:08 PM
Remove the stamina penalty. I never understood why getting parried means you lose stamina.

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 10:13 PM
Remove the stamina penalty. I never understood why getting parried means you lose stamina.

Instead of your attack just been blocked, it's stopped by the enemy and forced back onto you, sending the force of your blow through your body and causing your hero to be "shocked" and go into recovery. Recovery meaning the obvious, as well as needed to recover yourself and get your breath back, which in this case is stamina. That's how I understand it at least.

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 10:14 PM
Remove the stamina penalty. I never understood why getting parried means you lose stamina.

Instead of your attack just been blocked, it's stopped by the enemy and forced back onto you, sending the force of your blow through your body and causing your hero to be "shocked" and go into recovery. Recovery meaning the obvious, as well as needed to recover yourself and get your breath back, which in this case is stamina. That's how I understand it at least.

Xaviloga
12-15-2017, 10:15 PM
I'm afraid he's hopeless. He won't listen. Just like that other guy who belittled you and accused you of lying the other day.

I think I'm done with this guy. No matter how much we try, we won't get past his Brain Blockade. :')

First, sirry for my english.

I will not defend him. But there is something that i do agree, all mechanics are susceptible to be abused. You can change the turtle meta, but probably you will find out the new mechanics are as boring as before. The fact you still playing the game probe it is not that awful at the current state, at least for you guys. I think that if Ubi didnt change anything yet is because they dont have any clue how to change the meta and let the game playable. They didnt and its because its not an easy thing to do, and if its not easy i can undertand people fear what the game can become after these changes.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 10:19 PM
I'm afraid he's hopeless. He won't
listen. Just like that other guy who belittled you and accused you of lying the other day.

I think I'm done with this guy. No matter how much we try, we won't get past his Brain Blockade. :')

I see you are a type of person with reasining troubles. To make this best for you and some of others here... Why wont you organise custom match, and do only a light after a parry... enjoy

Charmzzz
12-15-2017, 10:26 PM
First, sirry for my english.

I will not defend him. But there is something that i do agree, all mechanics are susceptible to be abused. You can change the turtle meta, but probably you will find out the new mechanics are as boring as before. The fact you still playing the game probe it is not that awful at the current state, at least for you guys. I think that if Ubi didnt change anything yet is because they dont have any clue how to change the meta and let the game playable. They didnt and its because its not an easy thing to do, and if its not easy i can undertand people fear what the game can become after these changes.

The thing is that the Devs know that they just cannot get rid of the parry as it works right now because some characters would get rewards like countermoves for free and other wont. Thats why they didnt roll the changes out, they need to adjust more than just lower the time window after parry.

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 10:29 PM
I see you are a type of person with reasining troubles. To make this best for you and some of others here... Why wont you organise custom match, and do only a light after a parry... enjoy

Seeing as you can't really spell, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you said "Reading troubles"... that's a bit rich coming from you I would think tbh.

Light attack after heavy parry is justified. It's far too easy to parry heavies, and gives too many rewards. Light parry is another story, and deserves more punish.

Witchge8
12-15-2017, 10:41 PM
Seeing as you can't really
spell, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you said "Reading troubles"... that's a bit rich coming from you I would think tbh.

Light attack after heavy parry is justified. It's far too easy to parry heavies, and gives too many rewards. Light parry is another story, and deserves more punish.

Heavy parry is easy as your opponent is, you wont get easy heavy parry of ov good player. Insted he will punish you for attempting is more likely

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 10:44 PM
Heavy parry is easy as your opponent is, you wont get easy heavy parry of ov good player. Insted he will punish you for attempting is more likely

That is because it's also very easy to read a feint and react to it yourself. See the enemy feint the heavy, you probably still have enough time to feint your own heavy. So no, you can still avoid punishment for attempting a parry.

Devils-_-legacy
12-15-2017, 10:53 PM
You just said how easy heavy parry is so why should you get a free heavy out of it I don't understand why there's garanteed damage in this game I always thought skill should play a bigger factor it's the same as when people hated the revenge change its going to happen the devs are working on it hopefully it will drop soon

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 10:57 PM
You just said how easy heavy parry is so why should you get a free heavy out of it I don't understand why there's garanteed damage in this game I always thought skill should play a bigger factor it's the same as when people hated the revenge change its going to happen the devs are working on it hopefully it will drop soon

Perhaps I didn't make it clear. Heavy parry is too easy; which is why getting a light attack after it (if these are the parry changes coming) is justified. As it is now, you get too much damage from a heavy parry. I also said parrying a light is a whole different story.

CandleInTheDark
12-15-2017, 11:10 PM
You just said how easy heavy parry is so why should you get a free heavy out of it I don't understand why there's garanteed damage in this game I always thought skill should play a bigger factor it's the same as when people hated the revenge change its going to happen the devs are working on it hopefully it will drop soon

Speaking of the revenge furore, and this isn't specifically at you you're just the one that mentioned this, this thread is starting to resemble quite a few threads I took part in over that where essentially the argument went around in circles, the person kicking up a fuss was saying the same thing in different words each time and people arguing against were writing ever longer posts getting little different result from the last one.

Honestly at a casual skim read, this guy either sees no problem with the arguments you guys are making, which I agree with to be clear, I am waiting for the parry changes also, or he is trolling out of sheer last word-ism and you guys are letting him.

ChampionRuby50g
12-15-2017, 11:34 PM
Speaking of the revenge furore, and this isn't specifically at you you're just the one that mentioned this, this thread is starting to resemble quite a few threads I took part in over that where essentially the argument went around in circles, the person kicking up a fuss was saying the same thing in different words each time and people arguing against were writing ever longer posts getting little different result from the last one.

Honestly at a casual skim read, this guy either sees no problem with the arguments you guys are making, which I agree with to be clear, I am waiting for the parry changes also, or he is trolling out of sheer last word-ism and you guys are letting him.

Well I am an Aussie, and we don't know the meaning of backing down and letting someone get the last word in. It's always gotta be us to finish the fight 😉

Vakris_One
12-16-2017, 12:31 AM
Can I have the last word?

ChampionRuby50g
12-16-2017, 12:39 AM
Can I have the last word?

In your dreams.

Witchge8
12-16-2017, 12:40 AM
That is because it's also
very easy to read a feint and react to it yourself. See the enemy feint the heavy, you probably still have enough time to feint your own heavy. So no, you can still avoid punishment for attempting a parry.

Not if your opponent faints in to gb or light... Do you even play this game

Vakris_One
12-16-2017, 12:45 AM
In your dreams.
Challenge accepted

*Commences dreaming about having the last word*

Vakris_One
12-16-2017, 12:48 AM
Not if your opponent faints in to gb or light... Do you even play this game
Does it still count as playing the same game if you have say added a "u" with a magic marker to the word "Honor" on the case?

Rye.Bread.
12-16-2017, 01:02 AM
Not if your opponent faints in to gb or light... Do you even play this game

I'm pretty sure at least 2 full pages of this thread are all your posts. Please learn some better English and also learn to multiquote posts instead of making a separate post for each reply. Parry meta is awful and almost as bad as the spam meta.
https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/f/f2/Wow_stop_posting_anytime.png/revision/latest?cb=20160618231535

ChampionRuby50g
12-16-2017, 01:29 AM
Challenge accepted

*Commences dreaming about having the last word*

My LB enters the dream, turns it into a nightmare and wakes you up.


Not if your opponent faints in to gb or light... Do you even play this game

Well, considering that I have blocked a light after feinting a heavy before... all depends on timing and is very situational. Going off you FHTracker profile, I have played this game longer than you. As well as been at a much higher skill level.

mrmistark
12-16-2017, 04:53 AM
I think getting a guaranteed light for all classes is a good move.

What does guaranteed light instead of heavy do?:
-makes players less inclined to parry but still gives an incentive for those characters with not much else for counter (deflect, full block follow ups, dodge attacks, crushing counters)
-makes parry a relatively even risk vs reward: light on parry, or try to parry and get faked out taking a light which is the easiest to go into to punish someone trying to parry (not always going to work, but worst case brings fight back to neutral) as apposed to gb heavy against a feint into gb which is easy to react to, making the current parry more or less a heavy for reward, a non guaranteed gb heavy or light for the risk
- eliminates huge gaps in frequent punishes between characters with throws on currently guaranteed gb into wall splats and hazards
-starts a good balancing of the roster by eliminating other advantages like zerks guaranteed top heavy and raiders guaranteed gb into charge for guaranteed oos when other characters get a low damaging parry. At least this way the damage will be directly in cunjunction with the heroes strength rather than their special traits and abilities, leaving these special traits and abilities to be forced into mix up play rather than the punishment type of play


Admittedly I think increasing the stamina punishment should be very carefully handled and tested. If the stam punishment is that damaging, it could simply change the damage we get now from a parry into turtling in the name of trying to get the opponent OOS, which if it is accomplished, brings back a good amount of the problems that a guaranteed light would solve:

-people would have a the same inclination to parry in name of an OOS punish
- gives higher reward in all honesty to parry: huge stam drain and light vs light
- because of the tools/ huge punishes certain characters have against OOS punish, this means their would be an even bigger gap with the roster than the gb wall splats that we can do now

Long story short, I almost feel that the stam drain should stay the same, heck, even a little less if anything and implement straight up lights only for parry. Probably is an unpopular idea, but thatís what these threads are for right? Throwing around ideas. Parry does 0 chip damage and obviously stops the chain like it does now and now we have a good way and balanced across the board way to stop the opponent without giving such a strong reward for doing so. I do believe Gb should stay the same though.

Edit: I also forgot! This way makes the deflects, full block follow ups and crushing counters, the riskier and more skill involved alternatives to parry, more appealing, while still being a calculated risk.

Vakris_One
12-16-2017, 05:02 AM
My LB enters the dream, turns it into a nightmare and wakes you up.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4egm5U8Ud1qedb29o1_500.gif

LB = 1
Dream = 0

Witchge8
12-16-2017, 06:19 AM
I'm pretty sure at least 2 full pages of this thread are all your posts. Please learn some better English and also learn to multiquote posts instead of making a separate post for each reply. Parry meta is awful and almost as bad as the spam meta.
https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/f/f2/Wow_stop_posting_anytime.png/revision/latest?cb=20160618231535

I will when you learn not to be petty litle schoolgirl

your post showes your deep understanding of this game

Witchge8
12-16-2017, 06:23 AM
My LB enters the dream, turns it into a nightmare and wakes you up.



Well, considering that I have blocked a light after feinting a heavy before... all depends on timing and is very situational. Going off you FHTracker profile, I have played this game longer than you. As well as been at a much higher skill level.

What the tracker actualy says is how many times you rage quit a losing match, and that you dont play highlander as mutch as i do or other of any 10 classes witch dont exsist for you in this game

Witchge8
12-16-2017, 06:44 AM
I think getting a guaranteed light for all classes is a good move.

What does guaranteed light instead of heavy do?:
-makes players less inclined to parry but still gives an incentive for those characters with not much else for counter (deflect, full block follow ups, dodge attacks, crushing counters)
-makes parry a relatively even risk vs reward: light on parry, or try to parry and get faked out taking a light which is the easiest to go into to punish someone trying to parry (not always going to work, but worst case brings fight back to neutral) as apposed to gb heavy against a feint into gb which is easy to react to, making the current parry more or less a heavy for reward, a non guaranteed gb heavy or light for the risk
- eliminates huge gaps in frequent punishes between characters with throws on currently guaranteed gb into wall splats and hazards
-starts a good balancing of the roster by eliminating other advantages like zerks guaranteed top heavy and raiders guaranteed gb into charge for guaranteed oos when other characters get a low damaging parry. At least this way the damage will be directly in cunjunction with the heroes strength rather than their special traits and abilities, leaving these special traits and abilities to be forced into mix up play rather than the punishment type of play


Admittedly I think increasing the stamina punishment should be very carefully handled and tested. If the stam punishment is that damaging, it could simply change the damage we get now from a parry into turtling in the name of trying to get the opponent OOS, which if it is accomplished, brings back a good amount of the problems that a guaranteed light would solve:

-people would have a the same inclination to parry in name of an OOS punish
- gives higher reward in all honesty to parry: huge stam drain and light vs light
- because of the tools/ huge punishes certain characters have against OOS punish, this means their would be an even bigger gap with the roster than the gb wall splats that we can do now

Long story short, I almost feel that the stam drain should stay the same, heck, even a little less if anything and implement straight up lights only for parry. Probably is an unpopular idea, but that’s what these threads are for right? Throwing around ideas. Parry does 0 chip damage and obviously stops the chain like it does now and now we have a good way and balanced across the board way to stop the opponent without giving such a strong reward for doing so. I do believe Gb should stay the same though.

Edit: I also forgot! This way makes the deflects, full block follow ups and crushing counters, the riskier and more skill involved alternatives to parry, more appealing, while still being a calculated risk.

Balance issues are not in question here but fundamentals of this games gamplay. You see i belive this game should revolve around parry mind games, messing your opponents parry timings, try to bait out parrys so you can try to punish them ect. So that being sead you need to have high rewards for parrying, you need people to constantly look for a parry to that level that it is a muscle memory and will often make a mistake by reflexly tryig to parry. And for that you need high parry reward. If you midgat parry reward you are riscking to turn this game into some dumbdown swinging and blocking expiriance. And all these people that want these changes are not actualy know what theey wish for. Like time snap situation, everyone wanted it out of the game, now evryone wants it back its pretty sad actualy. people often dont know what they wish for and rearly think trugh all the consedencies

ChampionRuby50g
12-16-2017, 06:54 AM
What the tracker actualy says is how many times you rage quit a losing match, and that you dont play highlander as mutch as i do or other of any 10 classes witch dont exsist for you in this game

Are you delusional? What had that got to do with anything here?

Never rage quit after losing matches, because I understand that you can't win them all. I have no reason to rage quit.

You have played 2 days with Highlander, I've played 1 day and 9 hours with him. So what? You don't play Raider as much as I have, now tell me how that's relevant.

The only classes I haven't played are the heavies, as well as all Samurai. To my count, that is not 10 classes I haven't played. Again I must ask, what has this got to do with anything?

I must have missed the point when everyone was begging for timesnap to be removed. Care to enlighten us on when people wanted it out? Because I was under the impression it was removed by the devs without letting the community know.

Time Snap

Time Snap has been disabled


Developer comments: Time Snap is a legacy system weíve had at the core of our fight system for a very long time. To be brief, it snaps actions at 100ms in order to guarantee synchronized contacts. The downside of this system has been input latency. During the course of production, we ran several investigations in order to estimate our input lag, and a few months before shipping we started to create exceptions within the time snap framework in order to improve input reactivity on guard switch for instance. After weeks of testing internally, weíve decided to disable Time Snap entirely from the game in order to favor input reactivity as much as possible.

Straight from Patch notes 1.09, nothing there suggests the community had anything to do with time snap removal. If anything, it would have been stated that there needs to be improvement to input reactivity, and Ubisofts answer was to disable timesnap without first consulting the community.

Charmzzz
12-16-2017, 02:33 PM
Btw parry baiting mindgames will still be in, you can feint a heavy and go immediately into a GB, if the opponent tries to parry you will have an untechable GB. On startup every heavy is countered by GB.

Vakris_One
12-16-2017, 03:02 PM
Parry is possibly the most powerful move in the game as others have mentioned. Reducing the reward you get from a parry will not delete it from use. It will still be a very strong move because it will still:
- drain the opponent's stamina
- stop their attack dead
- gives you guarranteed damage on the opponent albeit only a light

And all of that from one move. Now, we don't know what the devs have planned for the damage part since the community largely rejected the idea of getting only a light from a parry because it gives characters with a double light like Orochi, Warden, Shinobi, Shaman an advantage over others. But even if they decide to remove all guarranteed damage from a parry it will still play a strong role in draining stamina and stopping the opponent's pressure on you.

Devils-_-legacy
12-16-2017, 03:47 PM
Championship (Perhaps I didn't make it clear. Heavy parry is too easy; which is why getting a light attack after it (if these are the parry changes coming) is justified. As it is now, you get too much damage from a heavy parry. I also said parrying a light is a whole different story.)I agree with you lol I was replying to witchg8

mrmistark
12-16-2017, 04:38 PM
Championship (Perhaps I didn't make it clear. Heavy parry is too easy; which is why getting a light attack after it (if these are the parry changes coming) is justified. As it is now, you get too much damage from a heavy parry. I also said parrying a light is a whole different story.)I agree with you lol I was replying to witchg8

I forgo my about this. But all they have to do is make an unchainable light as the punish. Then starting the new chain would be Reactable. No guaranteed doubles or melee attacks, just raw stamina damage and light damage.


Balance issues are not in question here but fundamentals of this games gamplay. You see i belive this game should revolve around parry mind games, messing your opponents parry timings, try to bait out parrys so you can try to punish them ect. So that being sead you need to have high rewards for parrying, you need people to constantly look for a parry to that level that it is a muscle memory and will often make a mistake by reflexly tryig to parry. And for that you need high parry reward. If you midgat parry reward you are riscking to turn this game into some dumbdown swinging and blocking expiriance. And all these people that want these changes are not actualy know what theey wish for. Like time snap situation, everyone wanted it out of the game, now evryone wants it back its pretty sad actualy. people often dont know what they wish for and rearly think trugh all the consedencies

I donít understand how balancing ISNT part of parrying. The two examples I described: berserker for what is it, 38 damage top heavy guaranteed as an assassin on a parry against half the rosters 25. Thatís a hell of a lot more damage and raiders carry after gb that is instant Oos and a zone with one of the strongest mind games while oos. If they all were subjected to a standard unchainable light: the damage would directly correlate to strictly their light attack numbers rather than their special traits unless they try the very risky counters such as crushing counters, deflects, full block/hidden stance follow-ups. Some would argue that these would ďreplace parryĒ but all of them are rather risky as they all are subject to feint gb really hard except for crushing counters, who are simply easy parry bait.

CandleInTheDark
12-17-2017, 04:03 AM
Well I am an Aussie, and we don't know the meaning of backing down and letting someone get the last word in. It's always gotta be us to finish the fight 😉

Is that why your cricket team are trashing England in the Ashes? (outside the fact we haven't been able to bat up a decent score since they threw Pieterson under the bus and can't take 20 wickets outside England but eh >.>)

ChampionRuby50g
12-17-2017, 08:18 AM
Is that why your cricket team are trashing England in the Ashes? (outside the fact we haven't been able to bat up a decent score since they threw Pieterson under the bus and can't take 20 wickets outside England but eh >.>)

With Smith and Marsh the other day too, we are really playing well. But yes, that reason and we simply just can't loose at home.

PDXGorechild
12-18-2017, 09:54 AM
Does it still count as playing the same game if you have say added a "u" with a magic marker to the word "Honor" on the case?

Hahaha I did this. Stupid American spellings.


Balance issues are not in question here but fundamentals of this games gamplay. You see i belive this game should revolve around parry mind games, messing your opponents parry timings, try to bait out parrys so you can try to punish them ect. So that being sead you need to have high rewards for parrying, you need people to constantly look for a parry to that level that it is a muscle memory and will often make a mistake by reflexly tryig to parry. And for that you need high parry reward. If you midgat parry reward you are riscking to turn this game into some dumbdown swinging and blocking expiriance. And all these people that want these changes are not actualy know what theey wish for. Like time snap situation, everyone wanted it out of the game, now evryone wants it back its pretty sad actualy. people often dont know what they wish for and rearly think trugh all the consedencies

OK just caught up on this little gem of a thread after the weekend, and I think it'd be best to deduce that we're just never gonna agree on this. The Parry changes will happen. The community has spoken. Fear not though, Parry will still be a powerful mechanic, despite your reservations. It may raise a few other minor, hopefully easily fixable problems, but will overall improve the gaming experience for everyone involved.

I'm so confident of this that I promise to come back and let you say "I told you so" to me in broken English if i'm wrong.

https://media.giphy.com/media/MXApm8NraO5Jm/giphy.gif