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View Full Version : My Conqueror Moveset Addition Suggestions



Rye.Bread.
12-14-2017, 05:47 PM
Seeing as this is the much busier forum, I'd like to repost a post I made about 3 weeks ago which barely got any views and 0 replies. That post was in the suggestions forum where this kind of thing would traditionally go, but after browsing general, I've seen a lot of that content here and the mod/admin activity is much higher. The post contains my suggestions for moveset additions to the conqueror to keep him competitive with these new spammy characters which are incredibly annoying to deal with. I for one will admit up front that I just don't have the reflexes (at least in game) to deal with it which is why I picked a more methodical character, which also fits my personality. I like turtling (which is why I picked conqueror) but still do not agree with the parry meta. Mixups are quite important and conqueror does not have many. Full block-> charge is garbage and canceling attacks into full block doesn't get you anywhere as unlike with other characters who have a regular feint button, you don't get anywhere... you just get full block... which is garbage stance.

So here goes nothing. As a note, if some things sound OP this is intended as that seems to be how ubisoft adds features. Make it powerful to start (shaman hahaha) and trim over time. It's also in ranked order of what I'd like added.

HELP HELP IM BEING PARRIED 24/7
Bind: Considering Conq does it a LOT to limbs in executions, wrapping his chain around an opponent's weapon seems like a natural addition. The idea is that when you throw out a charged heavy, you can press the feint button to alter the attack, making it deal only regular light/heavy attack damage. If an enemy parries this attack, you will bind the enemy weapon and get a free-automatic guard break (since you bound their weapon already). This alteration consumes stamina and will not work if you exhaust yourself while performing it. Stamina loss from being parried when executing this move does not occur.

FULL BLOCK A BAD AND MY ONLY FOLLOWUP A BAD TOO
Shield Riposte Punch: When you block an attack through all block, hit the light attack button to punch your opponent backwards with your shield. Very simple, and designed to give you space and punish spammers. No damage without the Shield Basher feat. Also, change the full block back to instantaneous activation, it already does not have superior block on it. Make it cost stamina to enter idc.

THEY WON'T STOP TRYING TO GUARDBREAK ME
Conscript's Counter: Whenever you successfully counter a guard break, the enemy takes loses some stamina and their regeneration is temporarily halted (As you punch them when countering). The counter guard break MUST BE WELL TIMED! This means the punch only works if you counter the guard break when they contact you, not when they start grabbing for you. You can still normally counter guard break with an earlier press, but you don't get the punish.

PUNISH THE CARELESS
Pull the Leg: When an enemy damages you with an unblockable attack (which deals 1+ bar of damage, so not punches, kicks, or headbutts), use the light attack button to attempt to wrap your chain around the leg of the opponent. IF the enemy is IN AN ATTACK ANIMATION, you will be successful, and pull them to the ground and interrupting their greedy attack (This grants one free heavy as per usual). If they are not winding up for an attack or otherwise have dodged to reset, this move will not work. This move will always consume the requisite stamina amount (Small, because you have to take damage just to use it.) This move is all about halting enemy momentum, a (supposed) conqueror specialty. It also punishes greed. This will not work on regular chain attacks, but when you have that spammy raider, shaman, lawbringer, or aramusha doing nothing but high damaging unblockables and mashing buttons afterwards, you can show them what for. Successfully landing this ability will heal you for the damage taken as you took the risk and succeeded. This also supersedes and nullifies the Rock Steady feat (which is bullcrap anyway).

HELP HELP IM BEING GANKED
Grant the slippery trait to conqueror while he is doing his zone attack. This one is optional, but it costs a lot of stamina, has almost no range, and does not deal very much damage. Maybe also reduce the stamina cost of that zone attack. It's purpose appears to be making space and clearing minions (You can actually clear many minions by walking into a crowd and zoning, since minions only have PEANUT DAMAGE); give him something. All I know is that zone just.. sucks. "Just wait for a real hero to arrive" am I right?

Oh yeah, shorten the top heavy timing to be the same as the sides because as is I never top heavy when side heavy is always a better option. Furthermore, if you end up completely reworking conqueror, please keep his superior block.. it's one of the few things that keeps me playing conqueror. (One of the few things I can be smug about against the spam meta)
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[Optional]
Feat Suggestion: ON ME, COWARD
Possibly a tier 2 or tier 4 feat, use on an opponent. If that opponent has attacked one of your allies recently INSTEAD OF YOU, ALL your attacks become unblockable against that opponent. This is designed to make YOU the tank and forcefully redirect attention onto yourself.
-------------
I know conqueror has many hidden tools because I use them, but many times they are no match for the official flashy movesets of s4&s3 characters. Definitely open to suggestions, and remember if some moves seem OP, this is intended so proper balance can be achieved mainly through number tweaks. I've proofread this again and again but there may still be logic errors, and I'm open to correction.

bob333e
12-14-2017, 06:13 PM
Seeing as this is the much busier forum, I'd like to repost a post I made about 3 weeks ago which barely got any views and 0 replies. That post was in the suggestions forum where this kind of thing would traditionally go, but after browsing general, I've seen a lot of that content here and the mod/admin activity is much higher. The post contains my suggestions for moveset additions to the conqueror to keep him competitive with these new spammy characters which are incredibly annoying to deal with. I for one will admit up front that I just don't have the reflexes (at least in game) to deal with it which is why I picked a more methodical character, which also fits my personality. I like turtling (which is why I picked conqueror) but still do not agree with the parry meta. Mixups are quite important and conqueror does not have many. Full block-> charge is garbage and canceling attacks into full block doesn't get you anywhere as unlike with other characters who have a regular feint button, you don't get anywhere... you just get full block... which is garbage stance.

So here goes nothing. As a note, if some things sound OP this is intended as that seems to be how ubisoft adds features. Make it powerful to start (shaman hahaha) and trim over time. It's also in ranked order of what I'd like added.

HELP HELP IM BEING PARRIED 24/7
Bind: Considering Conq does it a LOT to limbs in executions, wrapping his chain around an opponent's weapon seems like a natural addition. The idea is that when you throw out a charged heavy, you can press the feint button to alter the attack, making it deal only regular light/heavy attack damage. If an enemy parries this attack, you will bind the enemy weapon and get a free-automatic guard break (since you bound their weapon already). This alteration consumes stamina and will not work if you exhaust yourself while performing it. Stamina loss from being parried when executing this move does not occur.

FULL BLOCK A BAD AND MY ONLY FOLLOWUP A BAD TOO
Shield Riposte Punch: When you block an attack through all block, hit the light attack button to punch your opponent backwards with your shield. Very simple, and designed to give you space and punish spammers. No damage without the Shield Basher feat. Also, change the full block back to instantaneous activation, it already does not have superior block on it. Make it cost stamina to enter idc.

THEY WON'T STOP TRYING TO GUARDBREAK ME
Conscript's Counter: Whenever you successfully counter a guard break, the enemy takes loses some stamina and their regeneration is temporarily halted (As you punch them when countering). The counter guard break MUST BE WELL TIMED! This means the punch only works if you counter the guard break when they contact you, not when they start grabbing for you. You can still normally counter guard break with an earlier press, but you don't get the punish.

PUNISH THE CARELESS
Pull the Leg: When an enemy damages you with an unblockable attack (which deals 1+ bar of damage, so not punches, kicks, or headbutts), use the light attack button to attempt to wrap your chain around the leg of the opponent. IF the enemy is IN AN ATTACK ANIMATION, you will be successful, and pull them to the ground and interrupting their greedy attack (This grants one free heavy as per usual). If they are not winding up for an attack or otherwise have dodged to reset, this move will not work. This move will always consume the requisite stamina amount (Small, because you have to take damage just to use it.) This move is all about halting enemy momentum, a (supposed) conqueror specialty. It also punishes greed. This will not work on regular chain attacks, but when you have that spammy raider, shaman, lawbringer, or aramusha doing nothing but high damaging unblockables and mashing buttons afterwards, you can show them what for. Successfully landing this ability will heal you for the damage taken as you took the risk and succeeded. This also supersedes and nullifies the Rock Steady feat (which is bullcrap anyway).

HELP HELP IM BEING GANKED
Grant the slippery trait to conqueror while he is doing his zone attack. This one is optional, but it costs a lot of stamina, has almost no range, and does not deal very much damage. Maybe also reduce the stamina cost of that zone attack. It's purpose appears to be making space and clearing minions (You can actually clear many minions by walking into a crowd and zoning, since minions only have PEANUT DAMAGE); give him something. All I know is that zone just.. sucks. "Just wait for a real hero to arrive" am I right?

Oh yeah, shorten the top heavy timing to be the same as the sides because as is I never top heavy when side heavy is always a better option. Furthermore, if you end up completely reworking conqueror, please keep his superior block.. it's one of the few things that keeps me playing conqueror. (One of the few things I can be smug about against the spam meta)
--------------
[Optional]
Feat Suggestion: ON ME, COWARD
Possibly a tier 2 or tier 4 feat, use on an opponent. If that opponent has attacked one of your allies recently INSTEAD OF YOU, ALL your attacks become unblockable against that opponent. This is designed to make YOU the tank and forcefully redirect attention onto yourself.
-------------
I know conqueror has many hidden tools because I use them, but many times they are no match for the official flashy movesets of s4&s3 characters. Definitely open to suggestions, and remember if some moves seem OP, this is intended so proper balance can be achieved mainly through number tweaks. I've proofread this again and again but there may still be logic errors, and I'm open to correction.

Overall I like it. At the current state, Conqueror's best gimmick is to superior block -> attack, or use full block then attack once. Attempt anything else and you're much more open for risks. And I agree he's often too easily parried. Which is very bad.

I like to think of Conquerors, being jailed-then-released criminals, are not bound to using only the shield and the weapon. A Conqueror should 'street fight' as much as he uses his weapon. Punches, kicks, headbutts, body shoves will be really good additions to his moveset.

I think, if you feint an unblockable only to alter its attack, you're still open to be interrupted and you're unable to counter an incoming counterattack by feinting an unblockable into something else. If anything, they should make his unblockable comboable into another followup which only activates after the unblockable (and the window is tight). That second attack being the wrapping the chain around an opponent's weapon. Though, with that move, I'd like to imagine it best if Conqueror wraps the chain around the weapon then bashes his opponent's head with the shield for a stun and stamina drain, instead of a regular GB. Again, the window to pull it off is too strict.

Your second point sounds more like Gladiator's shield bash, mixed with Lawbringer's shove-bash on block. It's a bash move that essentially drains stamina and pushes back your opponent. I think it would work best as an opener for a Crushing Counter, and then introduce a Crushing Counter that can only be activated if you successfully shield-shove an opponent back, and that's only possible against top attacks, for example.

I don't think penalizing your opponent during a CGB is a good idea; imagine if two Conquerors faced each other, one attempted a GB, the other countered it, and penalized his opponent in place? how can a Conqueror counter this move from another Conqueror? I think it's more detrimental than beneficial to the Conqueror. If anything, upon successfully CGBing, you can press the same button again right after performing a CGB, to perform a kick similar to Cent's; it will shove back GB spammers and it can wallsplat if there's a wall nearby.

For 'Punish The Careless', if you want to tank through an unblockable with hyperarmor and counter it right as it lands, while also being penalized, it's sounding more like Shugo's Demon Embrace. In which case it's very situational to use and certainly cannot be used to counter every unblockable thrown at you. I think adding hyperarmor to Conqueror is nice, but not static or upon performing a specific attack. If anything, to specifically counter unblockables, the Conqueror can twohand his shield, bash in the direction of the unblockable, still take damage, but also repel the opponent's weapon, spin around, and hit the opponent with a backhand punch that deals like 8-10 damage, and pushes your opponent back. You take 70% damage from the unblockable. This is only valid if your opponent did not have hyperarmor during his unblockable.

I agree Rocksteady is BS in 4v4s, however tanking through Aramusha's constant hit-stagger isn't an ideal solution. He can recover much quicker than other heroes, so you'll likely end up still eating hits even if you manage to land a counter attack. His whole Rocksteady feat needs a rework.

I do agree Conq's top heavy is a bit slow, hence must be landed after wallsplat, usually. Or after a light parry. I don't know how his rework will be like. But I'm sure he'll keep his superior block because he has a shield, wouldn't make sense to remove that ability.

Your last point about the feat is so-so. It sounds very abusable, especially in Dominion. In which case it should be like 3secs long, and have a 3min cooldown. That way it might be ok to implement such a feat.

High-Horse
12-14-2017, 06:17 PM
There's actually some really cool ideas in here, particularly using the chain.

I think soft feinting a charged heavy with a light for quick damage would be cool, and if you time it right, like Crushing Counter timing, you wrap your chain around their weapon for a Shield Bash/Light combo.

Maybe they could also take a page from Berserker's book and soft feint lights with a dodge for a quick Shield Bash.

Also, a good mixup game would be to have some more options after a Shield Bash. You could go for a confirmed light with proper spacing, a leg-wrap knockdown/flail smash cutscene combo, and maybe a charged heavy that charges and activates just a little faster.

Good ideas, Conq has needed some love for a looong time.

Rye.Bread.
12-14-2017, 06:40 PM
Overall I like it. At the current state, Conqueror's best gimmick is to superior block -> attack, or use full block then attack once. Attempt anything else and you're much more open for risks. And I agree he's often too easily parried. Which is very bad.

I like to think of Conquerors, being jailed-then-released criminals, are not bound to using only the shield and the weapon. A Conqueror should 'street fight' as much as he uses his weapon. Punches, kicks, headbutts, body shoves will be really good additions to his moveset.

I think, if you feint an unblockable only to alter its attack, you're still open to be interrupted and you're unable to counter an incoming counterattack by feinting an unblockable into something else. If anything, they should make his unblockable comboable into another followup which only activates after the unblockable (and the window is tight). That second attack being the wrapping the chain around an opponent's weapon. Though, with that move, I'd like to imagine it best if Conqueror wraps the chain around the weapon then bashes his opponent's head with the shield for a stun and stamina drain, instead of a regular GB. Again, the window to pull it off is too strict.

I suppose, I simply wonder why conqueror doesn't use this fantastic chain like device to control the opponent's weapon and therefore the opponent. I'm also tired of getting parried constantly. Actually, if you dig up and read the original post I made, the ability was like this:
When an enemy parries your heavy attack, if you hit the light attack button at the same time they are parrying you (eg. weapons in contact) you will bind their weapon.
I think I had some limiter in there like only being able to do it during chains and not as an opener- to be an option for following up some kind of bash or heavy instead of trying to wall-splat vortex or spam shield bash. Come to think of it, this version would be really nice and might as well allow it on all charged heavies as well. \_(ツ)_/



Your second point sounds more like Gladiator's shield bash, mixed with Lawbringer's shove-bash on block. It's a bash move that essentially drains stamina and pushes back your opponent. I think it would work best as an opener for a Crushing Counter, and then introduce a Crushing Counter that can only be activated if you successfully shield-shove an opponent back, and that's only possible against top attacks, for example.

Maybe, though I've always seen conqueror as more reactive.



I don't think penalizing your opponent during a CGB is a good idea; imagine if two Conquerors faced each other, one attempted a GB, the other countered it, and penalized his opponent in place? how can a Conqueror counter this move from another Conqueror? I think it's more detrimental than beneficial to the Conqueror. If anything, upon successfully CGBing, you can press the same button again right after performing a CGB, to perform a kick similar to Cent's; it will shove back GB spammers and it can wallsplat if there's a wall nearby.

That's very true, I just know he doesn't use his shield very much for offense or counters... it's only a bash and block tool. Your idea works just fine, the whole point was to get a disengage and halt their momentum, a conqueror specialty.



For 'Punish The Careless', if you want to tank through an unblockable with hyperarmor and counter it right as it lands, while also being penalized, it's sounding more like Shugo's Demon Embrace. In which case it's very situational to use and certainly cannot be used to counter every unblockable thrown at you. I think adding hyperarmor to Conqueror is nice, but not static or upon performing a specific attack. If anything, to specifically counter unblockables, the Conqueror can twohand his shield, bash in the direction of the unblockable, still take damage, but also repel the opponent's weapon, spin around, and hit the opponent with a backhand punch that deals like 8-10 damage, and pushes your opponent back. You take 70% damage from the unblockable. This is only valid if your opponent did not have hyperarmor during his unblockable.

Not a bad suggestion, and I did put it at the bottom of the list because it was a bit of a stretch, the feat as well.\_(ツ)_/




There's actually some really cool ideas in here, particularly using the chain.

I think soft feinting a charged heavy with a light for quick damage would be cool, and if you time it right, like Crushing Counter timing, you wrap your chain around their weapon for a Shield Bash/Light combo.

Maybe they could also take a page from Berserker's book and soft feint lights with a dodge for a quick Shield Bash.

Also, a good mixup game would be to have some more options after a Shield Bash. You could go for a confirmed light with proper spacing, a leg-wrap knockdown/flail smash cutscene combo, and maybe a charged heavy that charges and activates just a little faster.

Good ideas, Conq has needed some love for a looong time.

Nice suggestions all around. Definitely would love to see some caring attention given to conquerors. I've held on this long, and even bought the season pass- I want this game to be worth all the money I paid for it.

High-Horse
12-14-2017, 06:45 PM
I didn't that suggestion in there, the Counter Parry. I could see this being incredibly hard to pull off, basically parrying their parry and reversing punishment, but it just would make so much sense if Conq continues to go without a hard feint like everyone else (yes there's All Block feint).

That would actually be a super idea and unique to Conq.

Rye.Bread.
12-14-2017, 06:48 PM
Oh, yeah, I meant the original post back in the suggestions forum that got buried. Out of every idea in my post, that was the one I loved the most. Get a little something going to AT THE SAME TIME counter the new spam meta and the old parry meta at the same time.