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WUAF_MJ_Prop
02-26-2004, 10:55 AM
Hi all,

I was wondering why there was the minor oversight of somewhat accurate radiator/plumbing damage in inline engines. It would seem to make sence that if you took a bullet in the radiator there would be glycol spewing out in steam, the engine gradually overheating and finally seizing up. Just curious as to why that wasnt modelled S!! Oleg and Team, the BEST SIM OUT THERE IS THIS ONE......BAR NONE

WUAF_MJ_Prop
02-26-2004, 10:55 AM
Hi all,

I was wondering why there was the minor oversight of somewhat accurate radiator/plumbing damage in inline engines. It would seem to make sence that if you took a bullet in the radiator there would be glycol spewing out in steam, the engine gradually overheating and finally seizing up. Just curious as to why that wasnt modelled S!! Oleg and Team, the BEST SIM OUT THERE IS THIS ONE......BAR NONE

Gato-Loco
02-26-2004, 11:46 AM
good question!

zugfuhrer
02-26-2004, 11:49 AM
I have written a lot about this. The aswer I got was this type of damage is excluded in FB. Maddox must have a good reason if they put energy in making the sight-dimmer on LW-aircrafts they must have a very good reason for excludning such a common reason for battledamage as a hit in the radiator

WUAF_MJ_Prop
02-26-2004, 12:34 PM
i guess its cause all the ponys would drop like flies lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

02-26-2004, 04:09 PM
Did Bf 109s or Spitfires have shutoff valves so that you could isolate one side of the radiator?

Seems like a smart thing to do if a plane has already got 2 radiators. That way if one side is punctured you can limp home on the good side without losing all your prestone.

p1ngu666
02-26-2004, 04:48 PM
109 had it in the design, not sure if pilot could do it tho in the production ones.
i belive he (oleg) said it was too complex to do

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Chuck_Older
02-26-2004, 05:08 PM
Seems to me that the effects of radiator damaged are already simulated by general engine damage. My point is: although radiator damage is not modelled, I can reasonably guess that there is an additional chance of a general engine problem occuring after a hit on a liquid-cooled engine. If that is so, even though you have no "radiator" leaks, the negative effects on the engine are already there and modelled: loss of power, increased engine temperature, eventual engine failure. You just don't have the program differentiating between "engine damage" and "cooling system damage".

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

CARBONFREEZE
02-27-2004, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cosmokart:
Did Bf 109s or Spitfires have shutoff valves so that you could isolate one side of the radiator?

Seems like a smart thing to do if a plane has already got 2 radiators. That way if one side is punctured you can limp home on the good side without losing all your prestone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the Bf109 G2 could isolate and control the radiator systems on each side manually (including opening, closing radiator and shutting down system). I would assume that it was possible for other 109s to do this, but since radiator damage does not seem to be modeled in game, there would be no point to this feature unfortunately http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

If guns are responsible for crime, my keyboard must be responsible for my spelling!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

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P-38 "Little Butch" Shemya, Alaska

Oleg_Maddox
02-27-2004, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_MJ_Prop:
Hi all,

I was wondering why there was the minor oversight of somewhat accurate radiator/plumbing damage in inline engines. It would seem to make sence that if you took a bullet in the radiator there would be glycol spewing out in steam, the engine gradually overheating and finally seizing up. Just curious as to why that wasnt modelled S!! Oleg and Team, the BEST SIM OUT THERE IS THIS ONE......BAR NONE<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the planes with complex damage model it is modelled. But not modelled visual effect(don't remember, some I think has visual effect)

02-27-2004, 10:44 AM
Sometimes a plane will get hit and start leaking white stuff but you don't get the "FUEL LEAK" message. Hmmm.......

On other aircraft, an OIL leak can be just as deadly as a coolant leak. Once an IL-2 starts losing oil it only has about 15 minutes before the engine seizes.

WUAF_MJ_Prop
02-27-2004, 03:42 PM
Rgr, Ive noticed that on the odd occasion especially in a p40 u take 1 bullet in the general engine area, itll stop suddenly. I personally havent noticed coolant loss or sudden engine temp rises on the guages oh well, maybe i gotta pump more bullets in the radiators then in slow motion and see if it does anything (actually come to think of it, ive seen brown smoke come from the radiator sections of some aircraft (p40 especially) but its confusing whether or not its radiator or oil leak, thx for the reply Oleg

02-27-2004, 04:14 PM
I've read accounts that say the P-40 was considered more durable than the P-39.

In the P-40, the radiator is tucked up into the nose and somewhat hard to hit, but the P-39's radiator is mounted aft and has no armor protection. The feeling from the pilot's accounts was that the P-39 had more of a glass jaw than the P-40 did.

gates123
02-27-2004, 04:48 PM
The p-40 will take a huge amount of damage if its not a hit in the motor, I've had multiple 20mm hits to its wing and it will continue to turn fight. Unlike a p-39 where the wing will snap with a good shot.

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu/camms/archive/ww2_fighters/0112/pics/0112_2_1.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

Gunner_361st
02-27-2004, 09:19 PM
I have also heard people say that about the P51, Gates.

Thing is, the P40 Warhawk and P51 Mustang were both well built, solid aircraft. Their inline engines are indeed vulnerable and their achilles heel... But just because of the engine vulnerability, this does not mean their airframes are weak or they are not well-armored.
It is what I've noticed to be a somewhat common misconception... These airplanes were built so well they could approach 500 miles per hour indicated airspeed in a dive.

I am by no means saying they were Thunderbolts or something, but they were certainly not weak. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif All an enemy fighter pilot has to do is aim for the engine, and you can disable it with even rifle caliber fire. I have a track of me shooting and disabled the P51's Merlin in short order with the 2 7.92mm of the Me109-E4, if anyone wants it. Ain't too hard at all. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Captain Gunner of the 361st

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zugfuhrer
02-28-2004, 03:07 AM
Cool to hear something from Oleg:-)

I havÔ┬┤nt experienced that my engine gradually overheats untill it conks out. The only thing due to the engine is that my screen is oilsmeared and the engine sounds very bad stoppes instantly or after some seconds and that must be a hit in the engine.

As far as my shallow investigations in the reson for technical reasons for emergency landings and so on, a radiator hit was a very common reason for emergency landings.

I mostly fly ME109 any version so perhaps they arÔ┬┤nt included in the complex damage model.

CARBONFREEZE
02-29-2004, 03:09 AM
Bump.

Oleg, would it be possible to model engine temperature rise and eventual destruction? What about a message warning you when you get a "coolant system leak" much like the fuel tank:leak message? Or is this not possible?

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

If guns are responsible for crime, my keyboard must be responsible for my spelling!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

http://www.pbase.com/image/25987401/medium.jpg
P-38 "Little Butch" Shemya, Alaska

zugfuhrer
02-29-2004, 05:14 AM
I have the same experience with the P40 it can take heavy punishment.

The lagg has a inline engine with the radiator under the wings, and the La has a radial if I got correct info and I have not the feeling that the lagg is more vulnerable than the lagg rather the opposite.
Perhagps has the engineers put so much protection to the radiators that they are immune to 12-20mm projectiles.

02-29-2004, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
The lagg has a inline engine with the radiator under the wings, and the La has a radial if I got correct info and I have not the feeling that the lagg is more vulnerable than the lagg rather the opposite.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's because the LaGG-3 does not have a complex damage model. It's a known "bug".

All flyable aircraft are rumored to have proper complex DM's in the Aces Expansion Pack. Cross your fingers.....

julien673
02-29-2004, 10:12 PM
bump http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif