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Forumsacc
12-12-2017, 04:27 AM
Currently it seems that reflex guard is not working against opponents using heros with quick attacks. Most blatantly the Aramusha, but also Valkyrie. Why? What is the reason for this poor mechanic that does not seem to be functioning correctly. Is reflex guard supposed to hinder the assassin heros, or is it just supposed to help them by hiding their guard orientation? I am not left with a feeling of disappoinment, in my own lack of skill, when I am beaten by a player who is using a hero that has an attack speed that is too fast for my assassin hero to even block. But aside from that I want to make it clear in my admiration of such a unique fighting game. There truly is no other like it. Honestly I only want a developer to at least acknowledge this post, and I even would like to love this game, despite its numerous flaws.

bob333e
12-12-2017, 04:33 AM
How coincidental, we were just clarifying on this subject on another thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoz8LrQHIuA

If you wish to take a look: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1798936-Alright-i-am-officialy-done!

brashtralas
12-12-2017, 08:10 AM
The reason that video doesnít actually convey any solutions or evidence is likely the same reason Ubisoft releases broken characters and patches.... itís done in a custom match where lag and timesnap removal are least prevalent.

The reason the block isnít working is due to lag, timesnap removal in conjunction with lag, and the tiniest bit of stagger the new characters create with their light attacks.

You can subtract anywhere from 100-500 ms on attacks dependent on Ubisoftís ďserversĒ and the host. Today their servers were certainly experiencing issues, since I played on 3 different connection at 3 different houses with 3 different service providers(my own being the best in the US), and experienced enemies displaying instantaneous attacks on all 3 connections.

By comparison, yesterday I didnít experience any issues at all on 2 of those 3 connections. What does this mean?

Inconsistency. Quite possibly the most important thing in this game is understanding the constants of your enemies. What attack they can do when, how fast, and what to do in response.

Inconsistency ruins the game.

Long story short, hopefully dedicated servers fix it.

Knight_Raime
12-12-2017, 10:04 AM
The reason that video doesn’t actually convey any solutions or evidence is likely the same reason Ubisoft releases broken characters and patches.... it’s done in a custom match where lag and timesnap removal are least prevalent.

The reason the block isn’t working is due to lag, timesnap removal in conjunction with lag, and the tiniest bit of stagger the new characters create with their light attacks.

You can subtract anywhere from 100-500 ms on attacks dependent on Ubisoft’s “servers” and the host. Today their servers were certainly experiencing issues, since I played on 3 different connection at 3 different houses with 3 different service providers(my own being the best in the US), and experienced enemies displaying instantaneous attacks on all 3 connections.

By comparison, yesterday I didn’t experience any issues at all on 2 of those 3 connections. What does this mean?

Inconsistency. Quite possibly the most important thing in this game is understanding the constants of your enemies. What attack they can do when, how fast, and what to do in response.

Inconsistency ruins the game.

Long story short, hopefully dedicated servers fix it.

OP says reflex guard is bugged.
Video posted proves otherwise.

If lag is the reason then reflex isn't bugged. it's just lag.

Mia.Nora
12-12-2017, 10:09 AM
How coincidental, we were just clarifying on this subject on another thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoz8LrQHIuA

If you wish to take a look: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1798936-Alright-i-am-officialy-done!

It is quite clear that this video is omitting reaction time and display. He knows exactly in which order the attacks will come along with knowing that type of attack it is.

So even if in this scripted environment it turns out to work, it absolutely has no correlation to what block in actual gameplay is like.

For people with reading comprehension problems what I am saying is; in actual game block is something you do as a reaction to what is displayed on screen, whereas in this video it was something he was doing based on pre-knowledge.

Knight_Raime
12-12-2017, 10:16 AM
It is quite clear that this video is omitting reaction time and display. He knows exactly in which order the attacks will come along with knowing that type of attack it is.

So even if in this scripted environment it turns out to work, it absolutely has no correlation to what block in actual gameplay is like.

For people with reading comprehension problems what I am saying is; in actual game block is something you do as a reaction to what is displayed on screen, whereas in this video it was something he was doing based on pre-knowledge.

There is a well known reddit user that post a video of their partner and him in a practice match on PS4 doing the exact same thing this video is showing but ALSO asking his friend to mix it up with deadly feints. People like you are going to continue to make excuses regardless of what footage or explanation is given.

It's 100% possible on console regardless of whatever situation you fabricate to deal with "aramusha spam." lag and lack of lag comp makes it hard to deal with. and yes it is more difficult on console. But they don't balance based on platform. So you'll have no progress barking up that tree. And we should never balance a hero based on connection. As that wildly varies from match to match.

The literal best of this situation is learning the hero in and out and practice. Wait until dedi's and lag comp are put back in. that's it.

BarbeQMichael
12-12-2017, 10:44 AM
He knows exactly in which order the attacks will come

What if I told you that after every side attack Aramusha will attack from top?

PDXGorechild
12-12-2017, 04:34 PM
What if I told you that after every side attack Aramusha will attack from top?

I don't think he or the OP knows this. But yes, it's true, to keep the combo going you have to do side > top > side > top on repeat.

If you look back some pages you'll notice this topic has been brought up a lot, and the resounding conclusion amongst people in the know is: He's difficult to defend against with reflex guard. Not impossible.

Jump on practice mode mate. I had to start against a level 2 bot and move up to level 3. There's no shame in it. After a while of muttering "for f*ck sake.." under my breath, I was OK at blocking his top light to end the chain. If he feints you can sometimes get in a backward roll or dodge attack.

He's still a pain in the arse to fight but is counter-able.

Edit: PS4 with wired internet here.

Jansen5
12-12-2017, 04:39 PM
Honestly, due to Highlander making me second guess my blocking. I am always blocking in the first direction they swing and then quickly changing once I see that arrow. I have noticed practicing with hand eye coordination does help a ton

brashtralas
12-12-2017, 11:40 PM
OP says reflex guard is bugged.
Video posted proves otherwise.

If lag is the reason then reflex isn't bugged. it's just lag.

Okay? Whatís your point? Just wanting to argue semantics?

I was answering the opís actual issue. The video is performed in the game equivalent of a control group. Of course it doesnít show any issues.

I guess this is how you wanted me to answer?

ďNah, bro. Reflex is fine. Learn to play. Git Gud.Ē

My favorite part is that you then say itís lag further down in the thread.

bob333e
12-12-2017, 11:46 PM
Okay? What’s your point? Just wanting to argue semantics?

I was answering the op’s actual issue. The video is performed in the game equivalent of a control group. Of course it doesn’t show any issues.

I guess this is how you wanted me to answer?

“Nah, bro. Reflex is fine. Learn to play. Git Gud.”

My favorite part is that you then say it’s lag further down in the thread.


The OP meant to designate that reflex guard is bugged/broken/not working. I posted up a video that proved otherwise. Reflex guard is fine. Lag issues, latency, timesnap removal, and lack of lag compensation are a different matter that do not outline whether there is a problem with the reflex guard itself.

The point of that video, was to show assassins can block Aramusha just fine, both with stamina and while OOS. Simple as that. And proving that reflex guard isn't bugged.

Lag ruins a lot of things. Not just blocking Aramusha.

And yeah. Reflex is fine, really. And dedicated servers are closing in. They will, more than likely, solve most of the connectivity issues.

Forumsacc
12-13-2017, 01:23 AM
I don't think he or the OP knows this. But yes, it's true, to keep the combo going you have to do side > top > side > top on repeat.

If you look back some pages you'll notice this topic has been brought up a lot, and the resounding conclusion amongst people in the know is: He's difficult to defend against with reflex guard. Not impossible.

Jump on practice mode mate. I had to start against a level 2 bot and move up to level 3. There's no shame in it. After a while of muttering "for f*ck sake.." under my breath, I was OK at blocking his top light to end the chain. If he feints you can sometimes get in a backward roll or dodge attack.

He's still a pain in the arse to fight but is counter-able.

Edit: PS4 with wired internet here.

I can say that after several hours of practice time I still feel that the number of times it was virtually impossible to react and block the infinite combo as and assassin was too great. It was simply not effective enough to warrant even trying to block the attacks, and over the period of a duel match at least twice would I fall to the unblockable combo. Dodge rolling away however, worked about 90% of the time, but that was after three attacks or so had connected. Also, when there was some environmental obstruction blocking the Dodge roll it became apparent that I was going to be mauled until my opponent ran out of stamina. A few other people have suggested that the issue is really just me, and the another assassin hero players, however they offer no other solution than "git gud" as if all of us have not attempted to do so. They also fail to acknowledge the sheer number of people also complaining of the same, and seemingly flawed system. I understand that there will be no perfect solution to our issue, but where there is smoke there is often fire.

PDXGorechild
12-13-2017, 09:27 AM
I can say that after several hours of practice time I still feel that the number of times it was virtually impossible to react and block the infinite combo as and assassin was too great. It was simply not effective enough to warrant even trying to block the attacks, and over the period of a duel match at least twice would I fall to the unblockable combo. Dodge rolling away however, worked about 90% of the time, but that was after three attacks or so had connected. Also, when there was some environmental obstruction blocking the Dodge roll it became apparent that I was going to be mauled until my opponent ran out of stamina. A few other people have suggested that the issue is really just me, and the another assassin hero players, however they offer no other solution than "git gud" as if all of us have not attempted to do so. They also fail to acknowledge the sheer number of people also complaining of the same, and seemingly flawed system. I understand that there will be no perfect solution to our issue, but where there is smoke there is often fire.

Which class are you playing as in this scenario? Without watching you play or playing with you I can't really offer any more advice. Beyond what i've said already, if all else fails, just eat the side hits and block top. There's a distinctive sound/rythm the Aramashu gets into once he's in the combo so as soon as that happens just push that thumbstick up to guard top. Blocking it will end the combo and give you a second to decide on a counter attack.

ThomHermans1
12-13-2017, 10:57 AM
I think they just need to make it so you can buffer the block direction when you are staggered by a hit. I think that will fix the problem for assassins.
I also have problems with the shaman unlockable after getting hit with a heavy attack. The timing is just too tight for reflex guard to parry it.

Playing_Mantis
12-13-2017, 12:10 PM
sometimes i can block it but u can't go on reflex. u literally have to just blind block top or side so this gives them a free hit if they decide to end the chain early right?? its just too fast and sometimes ...not sure if its lag..probably, but sometimes i just can't block it at all. its a bit ridiculous of a move. so spammy and prob the most maddening thing that can happen to u in the game. i don't really think there should be any moves that are completely not react able unless you guess. its not so bad on a move like pk zone that comes one way or is not a spam fest. even if u know its coming top there going to get some free hits on u. i don't like this mechanic.

Tobias96716
12-13-2017, 08:27 PM
ok...for those of you saying nothing is wrong with the Aramusha I'm going to use the same logic using classes that have been nerfed and have nerfs coming...

Shaman didn't need a nerf it was a L2P issue...

There are videos where people are effectively shutting down a Shaman therefore she isn't broken and doesn't need a fix...

Cents where perfectly fine just don't fight near a wall and it will be fine....

Shinobi was fine at launch and never needed a nerf...just like shaman pounce the kick was perfectly fine....


See if almost the entire community is seeing something wrong it goes from a L2P issue to one that the devs should look into to see why people are saying they are experiencing the same problem...now any Hero besides assassins Aramusha is a good challenge and i can block or parry that spam depending......but as a assassin you get caught unless they make a mistake or try to pop a heavy you are screwed....this is what the majority of the people who play this game are saying....so even if you think its perfectly fine the majority says different and it needs to be looked at.

PDXGorechild
12-14-2017, 11:16 AM
ok...for those of you saying nothing is wrong with the Aramusha I'm going to use the same logic using classes that have been nerfed and have nerfs coming...

Shaman didn't need a nerf it was a L2P issue...

There are videos where people are effectively shutting down a Shaman therefore she isn't broken and doesn't need a fix...

Cents where perfectly fine just don't fight near a wall and it will be fine....

Shinobi was fine at launch and never needed a nerf...just like shaman pounce the kick was perfectly fine....


See if almost the entire community is seeing something wrong it goes from a L2P issue to one that the devs should look into to see why people are saying they are experiencing the same problem...now any Hero besides assassins Aramusha is a good challenge and i can block or parry that spam depending......but as a assassin you get caught unless they make a mistake or try to pop a heavy you are screwed....this is what the majority of the people who play this game are saying....so even if you think its perfectly fine the majority says different and it needs to be looked at.

1. Shamans damage numbers were really high. This combined with the fact she has speed, bleed, unblockables and pounce made her clearly overpowered. Maybe not so much compared to the newer classes, but certainly blaringly overpowered compared to the OG roster. I don't think anyone can argue against that, even Ubi said "We meant for the shaman to be good at everything, just not this good".

2. Cents stun locking abilities pre-nerf were ridiculous and frustrating to play against, the main reason this was nerfed is because it p*ssed everyone off. In essence I still think he's a horrible character, poorly designed and needs a rework.

3. Shinobi got overnerfed and then overbuffed again. Imo he just needs 10hp taken off and he'll be perfect.

The classes mentioned above gave pretty much every other class on the roster serious ball-ache at some point... Aramashu doesn't.

I main an Assassin and struggle fighting against Aramashu but still don't think he needs nerfing. He's an anti-assassin. A hard counter for these classes due to his combo and our reflex guard. Most classes with regular guard do just fine against him. But guess what - as a Berserker I also slaughter other Assassins. My combo allows me to keep attacks coming from all 3 angles, not just 2, albeit slower but with hyper-armour and more damage. I meet very few Peacekeepers, Gladiators, Orochi or Shinobi that can stand against me for long. If they play aggressive, they're dead. If they're defensive and a parry master they might stand a chance if i'm being lazy with my feints. I don't even have much trouble with Shaman to be honest. How many people are calling for a Berserker nerf? Nobody in their right minds, hence why he's getting a rework due to the load of feedback on how crap he is against any class that isn't an Assassin.

Going on your logic - I really struggle against Conquerors. Have I made tons of threads about how I can't lay a hit on a good one? No, because I understand he's just as trash as my class and only has one effective strategy. Queue the rework.

Aramashu is well designed. Honestly the only thing i'd change is his rock steady feat. Despite the fact I struggle against him, I like the class and enjoy the challenge. Other than his fast combo he doesn't have any ridiculously overpowered attacks or stun locks. My friends who roll with Warlord and Raider don't have much trouble against him. I imagine there are a few other classes that have a close fight with him. He chews up Assassins but not to the point where he's impossible to beat.

Git gud and accept he'll always be a struggle if you main an Assassin.

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 01:11 PM
1. Shamans damage numbers were really high. This combined with the fact she has speed, bleed, unblockables and pounce made her clearly overpowered. Maybe not so much compared to the newer classes, but certainly blaringly overpowered compared to the OG roster. I don't think anyone can argue against that, even Ubi said "We meant for the shaman to be good at everything, just not this good".

2. Cents stun locking abilities pre-nerf were ridiculous and frustrating to play against, the main reason this was nerfed is because it p*ssed everyone off. In essence I still think he's a horrible character, poorly designed and needs a rework.

3. Shinobi got overnerfed and then overbuffed again. Imo he just needs 10hp taken off and he'll be perfect.

The classes mentioned above gave pretty much every other class on the roster serious ball-ache at some point... Aramashu doesn't.

I main an Assassin and struggle fighting against Aramashu but still don't think he needs nerfing. He's an anti-assassin. A hard counter for these classes due to his combo and our reflex guard. Most classes with regular guard do just fine against him. But guess what - as a Berserker I also slaughter other Assassins. My combo allows me to keep attacks coming from all 3 angles, not just 2, albeit slower but with hyper-armour and more damage. I meet very few Peacekeepers, Gladiators, Orochi or Shinobi that can stand against me for long. If they play aggressive, they're dead. If they're defensive and a parry master they might stand a chance if i'm being lazy with my feints. I don't even have much trouble with Shaman to be honest. How many people are calling for a Berserker nerf? Nobody in their right minds, hence why he's getting a rework due to the load of feedback on how crap he is against any class that isn't an Assassin.

Going on your logic - I really struggle against Conquerors. Have I made tons of threads about how I can't lay a hit on a good one? No, because I understand he's just as trash as my class and only has one effective strategy. Queue the rework.

Aramashu is well designed. Honestly the only thing i'd change is his rock steady feat. Despite the fact I struggle against him, I like the class and enjoy the challenge. Other than his fast combo he doesn't have any ridiculously overpowered attacks or stun locks. My friends who roll with Warlord and Raider don't have much trouble against him. I imagine there are a few other classes that have a close fight with him. He chews up Assassins but not to the point where he's impossible to beat.

Git gud and accept he'll always be a struggle if you main an Assassin.

This is an important factor not many people are taking into consideration enough, the fact that balance in a game is achieved through hard counters.
You will never achieve a semblance of balance with a diverse cast through equalizing everyone across the board. That is why you have heroes that do great against some, but poorly against others. That's not to say you will never win a poor match up. Just that you have to work harder or risk falling pretty to a hero that is effectively your hard counter.

Knight_Raime
12-14-2017, 01:22 PM
This is an important factor not many people are taking into consideration enough, the fact that balance in a game is achieved through hard counters.
You will never achieve a semblance of balance with a diverse cast through equalizing everyone across the board. That is why you have heroes that do great against some, but poorly against others. That's not to say you will never win a poor match up. Just that you have to work harder or risk falling pretty to a hero that is effectively your hard counter.

I generally agree with this statement. It's fine to have bad or unfavorable match ups.
But Conq is a good example of where his match ups are not fine. He either rolls the other person brutally or literally stands zero chance.
Not disagreeing. Just saying there is a line to this logic. as with anything.

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 01:33 PM
I generally agree with this statement. It's fine to have bad or unfavorable match ups.
But Conq is a good example of where his match ups are not fine. He either rolls the other person brutally or literally stands zero chance.
Not disagreeing. Just saying there is a line to this logic. as with anything.

I hate that fact, to make it worse it seems like there are heroes that have to double efforts regularly just to stay relevant, like Orochi and berserker. And I tip my hat to the dedicated players that make me cringe when I see them. They aren't many, though.
I hope the reworking of the roster helps alleviate these problems. I distinctly remember calling this exact scenario when I saw the kits for centurion and shinobi. They changed the game in huge ways.

I think it's a similar symptom to the original release of street fighter. In the process of it's release players, found a glitch in the mechanics that let them cancel certain moves into others to change up combos. However, this unintended oversight changed the way fighters progressed over the years.
The same could be said of For Honor in general, I feel the concept they had became a beast they didn't start to understand till later into the release.
Having a better understanding of how the game functions, we have a better place to move forward.

Knight_Raime
12-14-2017, 01:42 PM
I hate that fact, to make it worse it seems like there are heroes that have to double efforts regularly just to stay relevant, like Orochi and berserker. And I tip my hat to the dedicated players that make me cringe when I see them. They aren't many, though.
I hope the reworking of the roster helps alleviate these problems. I distinctly remember calling this exact scenario when I saw the kits for centurion and shinobi. They changed the game in huge ways.

I think it's a similar symptom to the original release of street fighter. In the process of it's release players, found a glitch in the mechanics that let them cancel certain moves into others to change up combos. However, this unintended oversight changed the way fighters progressed over the years.
The same could be said of For Honor in general, I feel the concept they had became a beast they didn't start to understand till later into the release.
Having a better understanding of how the game functions, we have a better place to move forward.

well said. You can say that of almost every fighting game out there. Least that i've played. Wave dashing in smash bros changed how things ended up playing as well.
Really the reworks of kensei, zerk, and conq will make or break the game. We've seen with all the dlc heros combined that they sort of understand how things need to be. Shaman and aramusha best show that with a design that's brand new. these 3 reworks will show us if they truly understand and can apply those needed things to those kits and beyond.

Personally I don't think kensei or zerker need many changes. Like they probably need a new move or 2. Some brushing up for sure. But both of them are more lacking because of how rewarding passive/defensive play is rather than their kits themselves being flawed. I think conq and goki are the only 2 kits in the game that are fundementally flawed and need new kits or damn near new kits.

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 01:59 PM
well said. You can say that of almost every fighting game out there. Least that i've played. Wave dashing in smash bros changed how things ended up playing as well.
Really the reworks of kensei, zerk, and conq will make or break the game. We've seen with all the dlc heros combined that they sort of understand how things need to be. Shaman and aramusha best show that with a design that's brand new. these 3 reworks will show us if they truly understand and can apply those needed things to those kits and beyond.

Personally I don't think kensei or zerker need many changes. Like they probably need a new move or 2. Some brushing up for sure. But both of them are more lacking because of how rewarding passive/defensive play is rather than their kits themselves being flawed. I think conq and goki are the only 2 kits in the game that are fundementally flawed and need new kits or damn near new kits.

It would also be nice if they were able to rework the kits to make a better distinctly between offensive heroes and defensive. I have no problems with turtle classes, those are essential if you want to have a stable team aspect. But as you said, we all see. This really does all hinder on the success of the new servers and these reworks.
I enjoy PvP and for honor too much, I got it doesn't die. This would make, probably the third game? Give or take, that I've seen go downhill because of poor choices and an inability to keep a steady balance.
I watch the PvP in Rift(mmo) get torn apart by casuals/PvE players and hardcore, tiered Raiders. Hell I even played Battle Borne till the developers stated hitting everything with Nerf hammers every week.
This is the first game I've been active on forums, mostly because I needed to see for myself how badly things get blown out of proportion. And dayum.

PDXGorechild
12-14-2017, 02:03 PM
I hate that fact, to make it worse it seems like there are heroes that have to double efforts regularly just to stay relevant, like Orochi and berserker. And I tip my hat to the dedicated players that make me cringe when I see them.

You on PS4 Alustar? I'll have a go at making you cringe ;)

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 02:06 PM
You on PS4 Alustar? I'll have a go at making you cringe ;)

Yup, Alustar. I'll be on later today and then all weekend, pretty much. Don't expect much though. I'm **** at duels, but give me a match or two and I'll make you work for it.
Could use some practice against a good berserker, anyway!

PDXGorechild
12-14-2017, 02:13 PM
Personally I don't think kensei or zerker need many changes. Like they probably need a new move or 2. Some brushing up for sure.

Can't speak for Kensei as I've only played him in practice, but Berserker can be fixed in 3 simple steps imo:

1. Give him the ability to soft feint heavies with lights.
2. Give him the ability to soft feint heavies with guardbreak. (Shaman has both of these already)
3. Give him a melee attack that can be used after a dodge, like gladiator.

This should allow him to open up opponents more and bring his damage to bear.

Maybe give him the reduced stamina drain he used to have for Dance of the paired blades after the second hit, not entirely sure whether this will be too much.

I'll hit you up Alustar! Don't worry, i'm usually stoned unless playing tournament.

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 02:16 PM
don't worry, i'm usually stoned unless playing tournament.
brother! =d

Knight_Raime
12-14-2017, 09:34 PM
It would also be nice if they were able to rework the kits to make a better distinctly between offensive heroes and defensive. I have no problems with turtle classes, those are essential if you want to have a stable team aspect. But as you said, we all see. This really does all hinder on the success of the new servers and these reworks.
I enjoy PvP and for honor too much, I got it doesn't die. This would make, probably the third game? Give or take, that I've seen go downhill because of poor choices and an inability to keep a steady balance.
I watch the PvP in Rift(mmo) get torn apart by casuals/PvE players and hardcore, tiered Raiders. Hell I even played Battle Borne till the developers stated hitting everything with Nerf hammers every week.
This is the first game I've been active on forums, mostly because I needed to see for myself how badly things get blown out of proportion. And dayum.

awh you brought up battleborn. Now I have to go cry again. :<

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 11:18 PM
awh you brought up battleborn. Now I have to go cry again. :<

Sorry, I had too, that right there to me is the biggest example. That and I loved the concept of that game! And Galilea was my babe!

Knight_Raime
12-15-2017, 10:30 AM
Sorry, I had too, that right there to me is the biggest example. That and I loved the concept of that game! And Galilea was my babe!

I was all about the 4 armed magic spamming crazy girl.
mm.

Alustar.
12-15-2017, 02:02 PM
I was all about the 4 armed magic spamming crazy girl.
mm.

Orendi! I loved her, she reminded me of an ex I had. Mad it all the more satisfying to smash her face with my shield. XD

Alustar.
12-15-2017, 02:13 PM
You on PS4 Alustar? I'll have a go at making you cringe ;)
I sent you a friend request