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Erhanninja
12-11-2017, 02:16 AM
I have a question for developers.

They made Conq as a defence character and supposed to get GB against some characters usually on blocking heavy.

Then they brought Shaman and Aramusha.

I was just duelling against a shaman. She threw a heavy OOS. I blocked it but I didnít get a GB. Why?

Also I was duelling against Aramusha. I did shield bash against a wall. I didnít even get a side heavy. He blocked it. Why?

Mind you this is duel. He doesnít have right rock steady feature.

They brought this new characters. The way they fight is out of mechanics of this game.

bob333e
12-11-2017, 02:24 AM
I have a question for developers.

They made Conq as a defence character and supposed to get GB against some characters usually on blocking heavy.

Then they brought Shaman and Aramusha.

I was just duelling against a shaman. She threw a heavy OOS. I blocked it but I didn’t get a GB. Why?

Also I was duelling against Aramusha. I did shield bash against a wall. I didn’t even get a side heavy. He blocked it. Why?

Mind you this is duel. He doesn’t have right rock steady feature.

They brought this new characters. The way they fight is out of mechanics of this game.

The S4 heroes have overall better tracking and better hit stagger than most of the roster. And they'll usually recover faster than many other heroes.

The Conqueror is currently receiving his rework; pretty sure when the new Conq is ready he'll be even more efficient against the new heroes. I suspect they're improving tracking and hit stagger values across the entire roster.

Lastly, concerning Shaman, this might help, do read through when you get the time: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1795611-Countering-Shaman-(both-pre-nerf-and-post-nerf)

Dasteel1974
12-11-2017, 05:00 AM
Keep playing and you will find that most things donít work the way they are supposed to.

brashtralas
12-11-2017, 05:27 AM
The S4 heroes have overall better tracking and better hit stagger than most of the roster. And they'll usually recover faster than many other heroes.

The Conqueror is currently receiving his rework; pretty sure when the new Conq is ready he'll be even more efficient against the new heroes. I suspect they're improving tracking and hit stagger values across the entire roster.

Lastly, concerning Shaman, this might help, do read through when you get the time: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1795611-Countering-Shaman-(both-pre-nerf-and-post-nerf)

Hereís the problem with that improved hit stagger... it doesnít take 4v4 modes(the most popular modes might I add) into account. Two aramushas or two shaman hitting you with light attacks in a 2v1 is almost impossible to escape.

My guy bounced back and forth today and never recovered. Good old aramusha light spam(which I can beat normally) caught me off guard from the side and thatís all she wrote.

bob333e
12-12-2017, 08:09 PM
Here’s the problem with that improved hit stagger... it doesn’t take 4v4 modes(the most popular modes might I add) into account. Two aramushas or two shaman hitting you with light attacks in a 2v1 is almost impossible to escape.

My guy bounced back and forth today and never recovered. Good old aramusha light spam(which I can beat normally) caught me off guard from the side and that’s all she wrote.

Similarly, two Centurions intermittently throwing kicks and jabs at you are going to perma-stun you.

Two Lawbringers intermittently shove-bashing you will perma-stun you.

Two Conquerors shield-bashing you, two Warlords headbutting you. You get the point.

4v4 has always been, and will always be, more of a mess than actual combat. Skirmish has pickable powerups, Dominion gets you rushing to take a zone while having to deal with 2v1 and 3v1 scenarios. Elimination is situational, some players decide to 1v1, others turn it into a full-on 4v4. Plus feats in 4v4 etc. Tribute is eh, fine, but it's mostly for premades. If you're solo and randomly join other players, Tribute is a big mess of Every Man For Himself.

brashtralas
12-12-2017, 09:44 PM
Similarly, two Centurions intermittently throwing kicks and jabs at you are going to perma-stun you.

Two Lawbringers intermittently shove-bashing you will perma-stun you.

Two Conquerors shield-bashing you, two Warlords headbutting you. You get the point.

4v4 has always been, and will always be, more of a mess than actual combat. Skirmish has pickable powerups, Dominion gets you rushing to take a zone while having to deal with 2v1 and 3v1 scenarios. Elimination is situational, some players decide to 1v1, others turn it into a full-on 4v4. Plus feats in 4v4 etc. Tribute is eh, fine, but it's mostly for premades. If you're solo and randomly join other players, Tribute is a big mess of Every Man For Himself.

Except these are simply light attacks. The difference is that shoves/kicks/ other unblockables take far more stamina and many do zero damage.

bob333e
12-12-2017, 09:49 PM
Except these are simply light attacks. The difference is that shoves/kicks/ other unblockables take far more stamina and many do zero damage.

That's what I inferred. Losing all your stamina and getting stunned and wallsplatted every 3secs, is way deadlier than taking HP damage (which is what two Aramushas do.) In For Honor (as weird as this may sound) your stamina is more important than your health bar...

brashtralas
12-12-2017, 11:34 PM
That's what I inferred. Losing all your stamina and getting stunned and wallsplatted every 3secs, is way deadlier than taking HP damage (which is what two Aramushas do.) In For Honor (as weird as this may sound) your stamina is more important than your health bar...

Disagree. If I canít move and get hp damage non-stop, Iíll die looooonnnggg before someone shows up to help. I ha e no doubt that lag plays a part, but these issues rarely occurred when it was the original cast.

Take raider for example. I think his shoulder carry is cheesy, but at least it carries you away from the combat. Like I said before, two aramushas or two shaman will bounce you back and forth from time to time with their most basic attack.

mrmistark
12-13-2017, 05:43 AM
Lastly, concerning Shaman, this might help, do read through when you get the time: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1795611-Countering-Shaman-(both-pre-nerf-and-post-nerf)

Jesus man, you really take every single opportunity to spam this link. Donít get me wrong, itís not like it doesnít have some half decent information, but damn, this isnít Boy Scouts. You donít need to sell 1000 tins of popcorn to get a pocket knife.

Bottom line is that against the new characters certain traits donít work against them. Half the time chain ending blocks donít stop their chain, the damage that is supposed to be guaranteed is not due to superior recovery times, ect.

The fact that 2 conqs with shield bash, warlords with headbutts ect can stun lock is a moot point. The difference is that with each melee stun lock these take at least some team coordination while with aramusha specifically, the infinite chain does not. I believe this is the difference the other comment or is referring.

Also I must again totally disagree with the whole ďstamina is more important than HpĒ. OOS can be scary, but if you keep a level head and know what every character can and cannot do then itís really not that detrimental. Itís all about being calm, collected and responding intelligently. You could argue the same for health I suppose, but the fact remains: one bar of health leaves allowance of 1 mistake while stamina has no direct correlation with your health and therefor is relative. Will you most likely be punished more? Of course but the amount of mistakes you can make is always correlated with how much health you have. Iíd rather be in an exhausted state with full health then health stamina but one bar of health, because I know that I can create enough space to recover my stamina before damage is done as opposed to having room for zero error.

Erhanninja
12-13-2017, 02:32 PM
I guess the problem I am having is I can't do any shield bash which is his main move. It is very reactable and Shaman has superior side dodge attack. I can't feint so I have to go full stance but it is very easy to GB. Maybe it is just me...

Mia.Nora
12-13-2017, 09:12 PM
I guess the problem I am having is I can't do any shield bash which is his main move. It is very reactable and Shaman has superior side dodge attack. I can't feint so I have to go full stance but it is very easy to GB. Maybe it is just me...

It is not you. When conqueror blocks Shaman's heavy he doesn't get a free GB, which he should according to game mechanics. I experienced that from both sides, as a conq blocking shaman heavy and as a shaman landing a heavy on conq and still CGBing.

Conq is in a very silly place right now, only feasible attack option he has is SB>Light which does 12 damage in total in exchange for risking side dodge attacks which deals more than that.

bob333e
12-13-2017, 09:56 PM
Jesus man, you really take every single opportunity to spam this link. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not like it doesn’t have some half decent information, but damn, this isn’t Boy Scouts. You don’t need to sell 1000 tins of popcorn to get a pocket knife.

Sharing is caring. Instead of copy-pasting pages upon pages of useful info that was written in there, I just send a simple link to anyone wanting help and advice on how to counter Shaman. Quite a few people chipped in, with really good information. Not sure how this counts as 'spam'. Pretty sure if this was considered 'spam' I'd have received something from the moderators already. And I never did. And you're not a moderator, so I'll just assume you're jealous you've never been able to foster healthy, informative, useful threads. That is how they are fostered: through sharing.

I won't bother reading the rest of what you wrote, as I've been greeted first and foremost in your reply with a derogatory statement.

mrmistark
12-14-2017, 12:28 AM
Sharing is caring. Instead of copy-pasting pages upon pages of useful info that was written in there, I just send a simple link to anyone wanting help and advice on how to counter Shaman. Quite a few people chipped in, with really good information. Not sure how this counts as 'spam'. Pretty sure if this was considered 'spam' I'd have received something from the moderators already. And I never did. And you're not a moderator, so I'll just assume you're jealous you've never been able to foster healthy, informative, useful threads. That is how they are fostered: through sharing.

I won't bother reading the rest of what you wrote, as I've been greeted first and foremost in your reply with a derogatory statement.

Not derogative. If you took offense that wasnít the intention, it is spam though, maybe not in the sense of spam emails or messages but spam nonetheless: indiscriminately sending the same message multiple times. Iím just saying what you have is great, and helpful, but you donít need to post the link whenever a problem with the character arises. Itís one thing when people ask. Another when someone understands the character and simply wants to discuss problems/abnormalities in game mechanics with said character.

Iím not jealous. When I create a thread itís simple, direct, and will help better the game. Your thread does this, but then you want to keep inderctly trying to bump your thread and promoted it. Good, spread the info please! Just only do it when itís asked for.

bob333e
12-14-2017, 12:37 AM
Itís one thing when people ask. Another when someone understands the character and simply wants to discuss problems/abnormalities in game mechanics with said character.

Creating a thread asking how to counter Shaman because 1 2 3 4 5, IS asking for help. Not sure how you overlooked such a basic thing.


Your thread does this, but then you want to keep inderctly trying to bump your thread and promoted it. Good, spread the info please! Just only do it when itís asked for.

FYI, 'bumping' is when the thread owner repeatedly messages in his own thread just to keep it among the freshly created threads, for no apparent reason, and hinders the more useful threads from showing up on the first page. Doubt I'm doing that. :)
But I am certainly promoting useful information, I thought it was a no-brainer already. If people need help against Shaman, I invite them to take a look at my thread. They do not need to message in it, even. No harm in that, really.

FYI #2: I've seen other people in this forum forward much older threads than mine, recently. Because they contained good info. And moderators told them nothing, because it's not against the rules. If a thread is older than one week, doesn't mean it's automatically expired and must never be mentioned again, lol.


Iím not jealous.

Okay.

mrmistark
12-14-2017, 02:30 AM
Creating a thread asking how to counter Shaman because 1 2 3 4 5, IS asking for help. Not sure how you overlooked such a basic thing.



FYI, 'bumping' is when the thread owner repeatedly messages in his own thread just to keep it among the freshly created threads, for no apparent reason, and hinders the more useful threads from showing up on the first page. Doubt I'm doing that. :)
But I am certainly promoting useful information, I thought it was a no-brainer already. If people need help against Shaman, I invite them to take a look at my thread. They do not need to message in it, even. No harm in that, really.

FYI #2: I've seen other people in this forum forward much older threads than mine, recently. Because they contained good info. And moderators told them nothing, because it's not against the rules. If a thread is older than one week, doesn't mean it's automatically expired and must never be mentioned again, lol.



Okay.

Again OP did not ask for help against shaman, rather to discuss the fact that both new heroes do it follow the typical mechanics against conq. So please tell me where this ďbasic thingĒ I overlooked is. Again, Iím not trying to be a jerk, I just donít see any relevance. Heís not asking how to play against shaman. Heís not asking ďhey fady! How do I look for shaman soft feints?Ē Or ďhey fady, Iím having an awefully difficult time dodging shamans Pounce, any tips?Ē. He explicitly said aramusha and shaman simply donít follow suit with conqs signature Gb on heavy block.

I know what bumping a post is, thatís why I said ďindirectlyĒ. I could be wrong, but since day 2 of shaman being out for season pass holders I have seen you plop this link on at least 1 post Iíve looked at every time Iíve looked on here. it makes me feel like youíre treating your thread like a Facebook page or something going for comments to be the top post the way youíve been pasting it everywhere. Again, Iím not trying to bash you, but on some of these threads itís just really not relevant if you read the Op post. Sometimes itís warranted and I commend you for giving good advice to those players, but it really just doesnít hold much relevance to OPís post. Whether he/she knows how to play against shaman isnít the point. The whole point again is that these characters donít abide by a simple mechanic that every other character does.

Anyways OP, Iíve also noticed this myself. The recovery times of the new characters seem to be much faster than the rest of the roster when it comes to being blocked and parried. Itís not just conq, zerk doesnít get a guaranteed top heavy all the time after a parry with the new characters. I guess it can also be compared to aramushas rock stead feat debates: yes if you adapt then you can overcome, but at the same time it gives the new characters an edge in this specific area.

bob333e
12-14-2017, 03:29 AM
My thread is roughly 2 weeks old, started December 1st. And since then, it has been forwarded 4 times. Including in here. Keep pulling stuff out of your arse.

I kindly advise you to 1) quit targeting my messages like an actual jerk, and 2) stick with the original topic of this thread from now on because you're not really helping the thread creator with these senseless rants, and 3) to resort to PM if you still have a problem with me and still have something childish to say.

Have a nice day now.

mrmistark
12-14-2017, 03:41 AM
It has definitely been forwarded way more than 4 times, but ok. The point is itís not relevant so I would take you advice yourself. Donít get upset because I questioned the point of your post and the fact you tend to post it in threads that it isnít needed. That to me just shows that you donít care what the Op actually has to say. Maybe thatís why I find it so arrogant.

You have a good day as well.

Mia.Nora
12-14-2017, 03:41 AM
My thread is roughly 2 weeks old, started December 1st. And since then, it has been forwarded 4 times. Including in here. Keep pulling stuff out of your arse.

I kindly advise you to 1) quit targeting my messages like an actual jerk, and 2) stick with the original topic of this thread from now on because you're not really helping the thread creator with these senseless rants, and 3) to resort to PM if you still have a problem with me and still have something childish to say.

Have a nice day now.

That link you posted is a good thread for vsing with shaman, so I will try to say this as nice as possible.

OP is talking about Conqueror mechanics not working vs shaman. This is a bug/glitch which happens to happen vs shaman. General gameplay tips vs shaman has absolutely nothing to do with it, yet you keep spamming this thread from top of a high horse. And your general tone is very arrogant about it.

Conq gets a free GB on blocking heavies, but this is not working vs shaman. Simple as that. I hope your next post will say "sorry I misunderstood" and be done with it.

bob333e
12-14-2017, 03:50 AM
That link you posted is a good thread for vsing with shaman, so I will try to say this as nice as possible.

OP is talking about Conqueror mechanics not working vs shaman. This is a bug/glitch which happens to happen vs shaman. General gameplay tips vs shaman has absolutely nothing to do with it, yet you keep spamming this thread from top of a high horse. And your general tone is very arrogant about it.

Conq gets a free GB on blocking heavies, but this is not working vs shaman. Simple as that. I hope your next post will say "sorry I misunderstood" and be done with it.

My original message stated, "this might help", not "this is your solution right there!!!! find out how to counter Shaman today with this one simple trick!!!"

And I will not apologise to a troll. But, I do apologise to everyone else, I had to deal with a troll. Sorry about that.

mrmistark
12-14-2017, 04:06 AM
My original message stated, "this might help", not "this is your solution right there!!!! find out how to counter Shaman today with this one simple trick!!!"

And I will not apologise to a troll. But, I do apologise to everyone else, I had to deal with a troll. Sorry about that.

The classic ďhe doesn't agree with my point of view so heís a trollĒ comment. What evs man. I guess we can all agree to disagree the relevance of your post and allow the poor OP his thread back, which is a valid concern I hope they sort out.

bob333e
12-14-2017, 04:17 AM
The classic ďhe doesn't agree with my point of view so heís a trollĒ comment. What evs man. I guess we can all agree to disagree the relevance of your post and allow the poor OP his thread back, which is a valid concern I hope they sort out.

Must you have the last word?

I will explain one more time: OP was talking of an issue concerning Conq's blocking against Shaman. I gave him a link in case he needed more info around Shaman's moveset, it 'might help'. In no way I offered to solve the specific problem with Conq with that link.

Yeah, better cut this dry. We are not helping this thread. It's been already sorted out, misunderstandings happen, but mocking a person who simply tried to help, even in something not directly related to the specific problem, what does that make you.

Peace.

PDXGorechild
12-14-2017, 11:39 AM
The classic “he doesn't agree with my point of view so he’s a troll” comment. What evs man. I guess we can all agree to disagree the relevance of your post and allow the poor OP his thread back, which is a valid concern I hope they sort out.

Mrmistark, don't keep feeding the troll, man. He likes arguing with people and baits them into it before playing the victim.