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View Full Version : It's still way too easy to parry



DoctorMcBatman
12-05-2017, 05:50 PM
as a non-assassin at least. I main PK and roach sometimes. I accidentally selected my rep 0 level 6 Warden a few days ago for a game... I parried nearly every attack, light or heavy, regardless of class.

When's the parry nerf coming? This is free damage that is unbelievably easy to access.

David_gorda
12-05-2017, 05:59 PM
Its pretty hard to parry lights on console. Defensive meta isnt really a thing for us but must be boring for PC players.

DoctorMcBatman
12-05-2017, 06:07 PM
Its pretty hard to parry lights on console. Defensive meta isnt really a thing for us but must be boring for PC players.

Good point. FH PC vs. FH console is not the same thing. I am talking PC, to clarify.

masen9999
12-05-2017, 09:02 PM
im on console and light parry is dumb way to much damage off of a light parry i cant even throw out one light anymore with out it getting parried and a top heavy it needs to be harder to do or not as punishable its stupid

Vordred
12-05-2017, 09:15 PM
as a non-assassin at least. I main PK and roach sometimes. I accidentally selected my rep 0 level 6 Warden a few days ago for a game... I parried nearly every attack, light or heavy, regardless of class.

Parrying with an Assassin is the same regardless of class. Reflex guard doesn't cause problems with parry

DoctorMcBatman
12-05-2017, 10:28 PM
Parrying with an Assassin is the same regardless of class. Reflex guard doesn't cause problems with parry

Really? :O I assumed it did.

Maybe I should start parrying instead of dodging as PK then...

Knight_Raime
12-05-2017, 10:39 PM
Parry changes are supposed to come this season. That's all we know. We know an actual title update worthy patch is coming mid december ish. So if I had to harzard a guess that would be the earliest we'd see the parry changes.

bob333e
12-06-2017, 01:40 AM
Parry changes won't change parry timing or parry mechanic, however they will probably address the guaranteed top heavy after parry and the guaranteed GB after parry. So after those changes, a parry can guarantee a light attack, near-guarantee a side heavy, and never guarantee a top heavy or a GB. I do agree about the GB part, you should be able to CGB if you're parried. This will solve several problems with several heroes' punishes being labeled "overpowered" because a chain stems from a single GB, such as Raider or sometimes Centurion.

Sauronbaine
12-06-2017, 02:51 AM
Parry changes won't change parry timing or parry mechanic, however they will probably address the guaranteed top heavy after parry and the guaranteed GB after parry. So after those changes, a parry can guarantee a light attack, near-guarantee a side heavy, and never guarantee a top heavy or a GB. I do agree about the GB part, you should be able to CGB if you're parried. This will solve several problems with several heroes' punishes being labeled "overpowered" because a chain stems from a single GB, such as Raider or sometimes Centurion.

Then they are going to have to change our kits as well because this would render Centurion even worse than he is now((Low B tier))

KotoKuraken
12-06-2017, 04:09 AM
Then they are going to have to change our kits as well because this would render Centurion even worse than he is now((Low B tier))

I think characters such as Centurion and Warlord will be fine with the change, mostly because Cent guarantees a knee to the face, and Warlord guarantees a bash to the face. Maybe they will or won't get an attack afterwards, but they will at least get their opponent OOS or really close to it on a parry

Sauronbaine
12-06-2017, 05:58 AM
I think characters such as Centurion and Warlord will be fine with the change, mostly because Cent guarantees a knee to the face, and Warlord guarantees a bash to the face. Maybe they will or won't get an attack afterwards, but they will at least get their opponent OOS or really close to it on a parry

Ok a knee to the face does what? lowers stamina? Doesn't guarentee **** though. Cent has no openers to be aggressive. So what if the guy just sits there and regains his stamina? Like... ???

Arekonator
12-06-2017, 06:02 AM
As its now, the knee also guarantees followup heavy, i dont think that will change.

bananaflow2017
12-06-2017, 06:44 AM
Yeah some characters rely on that parry. For example warden. This is the only reason y he is strong. Same Raider...
I think there will also other changes be needed.. otherwise we will have a sick lightspam meta ( what we allready got on console)

Sauronbaine
12-06-2017, 07:50 AM
As its now, the knee also guarantees followup heavy, i dont think that will change.

Wait, the knee after a parry is a free heavy? Ooooh I did not know that :D

Playing_Mantis
12-06-2017, 09:10 AM
Cent is not low tier. Put him up against all 12 basic heroes and he pretty much kills them all..

Sauronbaine
12-06-2017, 09:26 AM
Cent is not low tier. Put him up against all 12 basic heroes and he pretty much kills them all..


He's B tier. Low B. He has no opener on a turtle mate. Lawbringer, Conq, Warlord will kick his butt six ways to sunday. Pk too but Pk is dumb xD

PDXGorechild
12-06-2017, 09:42 AM
It's not too easy - it's too rewarding.

I think parry is in a good place as far as how difficult it is to pull the manoeuvre off. It's risky and players fluff it up some of the time and I get a lot of damage off compared to if they'd just blocked it. The problem is, however, that the enemy gets a free heavy or guard break out of it. Hell my class even gets a free top heavy for a light parry, which is tricky but far from impossible even on console.

So if you can parry, why would you ever block? No chip damage, drain the enemies stamina AND get a free heavy attack. This is and always has been way too much. Seems obvious to me that even if you take the free damage away, not taking chip damage and draining the enemies stamina can easily change the tide of a fight if you have the skills to parry. It also gives you the initiative for the next attack even if you don't get a guaranteed land...

What's more is that it seems easier to parry on a non Assassin class. Reflex guard seems to make it a bit harder, I may be wrong, but if this is true then this creates further imbalance.

Really don't know what's taking them so long..

ChampionRuby50g
12-06-2017, 09:57 AM
Parrying with an Assassin is the same regardless of class. Reflex guard doesn't cause problems with parry

Technically, no it isn't the same. With reflex guard you have to time your guard stance with the incoming attack, and with a hero like Glad whose reflex guard is incredibly short it has to be close. With every other hero, its happy days.

bananaflow2017
12-06-2017, 10:40 AM
@pdx
The Problem is that there will be other Problems. Im playing on console btw.
Actually the lightspam of a good aramusha or a pk is still an issue.
Finally an assasin can defend like any other character. They are hard to catch if they play well and there is no real way for me to open them for me as a warden.
The only thing that works is the parry. With all the feints super fast lights ne timesnap removal it's not that easy to parry that. But finally it's possible. If u remove this now there is simply no more risk when u start spamming ur oponent.
In console even now the risk is pretty los cuz 85% of the player base in console cant parry a pk or a glad light...
So the consequences of removing parry benefit ist:
1: they will Play characters with strong deflects.
2: they will pick characters with super fast lights cuz they will kill 85% of the player base with it and still can counter the enemy with theire dash atacks without risk cuz there is no real punish for a parry if they feint a heavy.

The parry or crushing counters etc are the only reason why many bin assasins viable in higher Level play. They just punish u for mistakes. Basicly assasins will fill the parry gap with theire deflecst then....
So if we change the parry punish many characters will need completely new kits...

Charmzzz
12-06-2017, 10:57 AM
He's B tier. Low B. He has no opener on a turtle mate. Lawbringer, Conq, Warlord will kick his butt six ways to sunday. Pk too but Pk is dumb xD

Well, at least he has an unblockable melee opener, heavy attacks with different timings which are feintable in almost any state and even soft-feint heavy iirc. That is more than most of the vanilla Characters have. What does Conq have exactly that bothers you? Shoulder-Bash? You should probably train your timing on dodges... And PK? Are you serious? PK has literally NO OPENER at all except a heavy soft-feint GB from neutral. Much wow, such good opener!

Also, Cent still has one of the best ganking tools - charged heavy from out of sight into charged jab into eagle's talon - such a heavy hitting combo with cutscene behavior so your enemy has to take all damage from your mates as well...

guor6800
12-06-2017, 11:04 AM
He's B tier. Low B. He has no opener on a turtle mate. Lawbringer, Conq, Warlord will kick his butt six ways to sunday. Pk too but Pk is dumb xD

You 've got to be kidding. Centurion has no openers? And here I thought that he was introduced as a turtle opener champion.

Except if you mean as an opener an one hit k.o move that siphons both the hp and stamina bar of the enemy. He indeed doesn't have something like this.

bananaflow2017
12-06-2017, 11:36 AM
You 've got to be kidding. Centurion has no openers? And here I thought that he was introduced as a turtle opener champion.

Except if you mean as an opener an one hit k.o move that siphons both the hp and stamina bar of the enemy. He indeed doesn't have something like this.

Kick=easy punished
Heavy softfeint=also no real option. Everyone knows this...
Jump heavy = free parry....

So better turtle with him....

Oupyz
12-06-2017, 11:39 AM
well parry still super broken at my level of play , really even playing as shaman 80% of her hit getting parried still defence wins the game and still as broken as ever , parry should stop giving heavy as a reward

i play on pc .

PDXGorechild
12-06-2017, 01:57 PM
@pdx
The Problem is that there will be other Problems. Im playing on console btw.
Actually the lightspam of a good aramusha or a pk is still an issue.
Finally an assasin can defend like any other character. They are hard to catch if they play well and there is no real way for me to open them for me as a warden.
The only thing that works is the parry. With all the feints super fast lights ne timesnap removal it's not that easy to parry that. But finally it's possible. If u remove this now there is simply no more risk when u start spamming ur oponent.
In console even now the risk is pretty los cuz 85% of the player base in console cant parry a pk or a glad light...
So the consequences of removing parry benefit ist:
1: they will Play characters with strong deflects.
2: they will pick characters with super fast lights cuz they will kill 85% of the player base with it and still can counter the enemy with theire dash atacks without risk cuz there is no real punish for a parry if they feint a heavy.

The parry or crushing counters etc are the only reason why many bin assasins viable in higher Level play. They just punish u for mistakes. Basicly assasins will fill the parry gap with theire deflecst then....
So if we change the parry punish many characters will need completely new kits...

Everything has a knock-on effect, obviously. If the free hits are taken away from parry then deflects will need looking at as well to bring them in line.

An Assassin can't defend like any other class. Reflex block is considerably more difficult and unreliable than regular block. Parry is more difficult as an Assassin as ChampionRuby50g said. So you try and dodge attacks more often instead. Yes they are quicker, but the tradeoff is having less health and a lack of defensive moves.

Saying that there is no risk spamming your opponent as an Assassin without a free heavy on parry is false. Often the free hit is just an added inconvenience to the fact that i'm now out of stamina because I got too feisty and they got a parry off when I was low on stam.

I've played plenty of Wardens that don't just sit and wait for a parry who have given me a run for my money. In fact I consider it one of my closest match-ups. Make use of feints, walls, and guard breaks to deal with the fact that your opponent is quicker than you. As a Berserker main I have no way to open you up either. At least you have shoulder bash.

My problem with Parry is that it has become a bread-and-butter move for most players, especially in duels. Turtling up and only attacking after a parry is still one of the most effective tactics against most classes. In my mind Parry should not be your main source of damage, but a situational move, that clever players can use to mitigate damage and punish people who don't keep an eye on their stamina bar.

Otherwise the whole glory of this dynamic game is reduced to two idiots staring at each-other waiting for the other to throw an attack so they can parry it for free damage.

bananaflow2017
12-06-2017, 02:43 PM
#1 the reflex guard. It's a timing u learn to deal with. A long time i was able to parry warden crushing counters with my pk until they fixed that. Espicially with a zerker I play for a light parry.
There are a few lights that nearly cant get parried...
#2 as long as there is a mechanic that gives u free dmg by reacting to anything u will have this problem. When u cant parry with ur pk u will go for the dodge heavy or orochi for the light. A highlander dir crushing counter etc.
The parry will simply get replaced.
The only consequence would be that other characters get higher in the meta..

So I think there will be many other changes needed if they make parry "useles"
Cuz if i have to make a decision between a more or less risky light parry or a block it's pretty easy if there is no dmg benefit in it.
Not saying that parry changes are mit a good thing or somerhing. I main a valk light parries are annoying af. Just saying that there are some more changes to be made. Otherwise too many characters will become really bad...

DoctorMcBatman
12-06-2017, 03:35 PM
Technically, no it isn't the same. With reflex guard you have to time your guard stance with the incoming attack, and with a hero like Glad whose reflex guard is incredibly short it has to be close. With every other hero, its happy days.

Thanks for chiming in; this is what I thought. I A/B'd Warden and PK last night. There is no question that it is MUCH easier to parry with my Warden than my PK. I haven't played much else of the roster, but my assumption is parrying is just too easy for non-assassins. I've tried aramusha as well for a few games - same deal, stupid easy parry.

bob333e
12-06-2017, 03:40 PM
Then they are going to have to change our kits as well because this would render Centurion even worse than he is now((Low B tier))

Agreed, Centurion could use reworks, but doubt they'll modify him anytime soon. The reworks are due for the OG roster, first and foremost.

Only 2 things that I wish to see changed in the parry mechanic, are the guaranteed top heavy and the guaranteed GB. Far less abuse willl happen following a single parry. And if you fail to CGB on a GB attempt after a parry, you deserve the punishment; as opposed to eating an automatic GB and getting automatically punished.

Guaranteed side heavy and guaranteed lights are fine, else what's the purpose of a parry? several characters have good range, after parrying their attacks they can regain the stamina with near-zero risk, they already were outside GB range and they only need to dodge once.

And parrying light attacks is a core mechanic just like parrying heavy attacks and unblockables; in no way should this be modified. It's an equal ground across all heroes.