PDA

View Full Version : Alright i am officialy done!



Eyyupyeser95
12-03-2017, 05:12 PM
I play games to relax and this games just stresses me out. We dont want light spam and they add a character that is based around light spam! I am done fix your ****ing game

bob333e
12-03-2017, 07:46 PM
If you are Assassin class, yes Aramusha can prove problematic with his top-side light combo; however it's not impossible to counter. It's been proven in other threads he's perfectly counterable even with reflex guard, it's just a tighter window. I suggest you check around for more info on how to counter Aramusha.

frewbear
12-04-2017, 01:33 AM
The counter to aramusha is turtling. The devs are ****ing useless and this game is trash now. Its always had problems but their incompetence is at its height right now. From now on it's lightspam and unblockables because any moron can do it and thats exactly what ubisoft is relying on -- they're hemorrhaging players so they need to appeal to people who are too stupid to figure out how to play back when the game was half decent.

UbiInsulin
12-04-2017, 02:36 AM
I play games to relax and this games just stresses me out. We dont want light spam and they add a character that is based around light spam! I am done fix your ****ing game

Hi Eyyupyeser - we've seen this feedback on the Aramusha from assassin players in particular, and have made sure to pass it on to the team.

kbvlcvfkhgc
12-04-2017, 05:23 AM
Hi Eyyupyeser - we've seen this feedback on the Aramusha from assassin players in particular, and have made sure to pass it on to the team.

Seriously UBIsoft, this Aramusha is unstoppable, this lightning fast light spamming infinate chain combined with rock steady and Full guard make this guy nigh on invincible, Im a S1 character and these S4 charcters are killing us, we simply do not have the tools to deal with these guys,

there was an Aramusha tonight and all he did was constantly light spam everyone to death, it was a MASSACRE!!!, block one and he simply started up again, his rock steady feat mean you couldnt parry him, it is sooo frustrating, i can totally get where this poster is coming from, its like the Centurion all over again but there's two of them and they've been given steroids, Why do you keep doing this to us?

they just sit there wait for you to attack, trigger full guard, get the punish and off they go spamming you to death, throw in a couple of feints and your dead before you know what hit you, the shaman is a hairs breath less bad for me but there still totally toxic, we need a level playing field, these S4 cvharacters are cancer cancer cancer,

please addresss,

Rikuto01.tv
12-04-2017, 06:46 AM
Aramusha is terrible im sorry. I don't say this often but you guys need to get good.

Baturai
12-04-2017, 09:28 AM
Just Block ? he deals tons of CHipdamage !

Anarnam
12-04-2017, 01:30 PM
Blocking light attacks does nothing. The first heavy attack Aramusha makes is easily parryable (if they don't feint).

Wardens, LB's, Warlords and other turtlish character obliterate aramushas by far.

Vakris_One
12-04-2017, 04:30 PM
Has anyone considered that Aramusha might just be a counter class to assassins? Or rather I should say players who play assassins badly. You have dodge strikes. Use them. You also have deflects. Overly aggressive Aramusha are vulnerable to both dodge strikes and deflects. The counter class to Aramusha are characters that are good turtles. Conqs, Wardens, Lawbringers, Warlords and Shugos have the potential to completely negate Aramusha.

Please actually play the character for a while instead of just whinging about him without understanding how he does what he does.

Fairemont
12-04-2017, 05:04 PM
So you ran into a character that your normal tactics don't work against?


Adapt. Overcome. Survive.

Raydal86
12-04-2017, 05:18 PM
Assassins should focus on aimed strikes with great damage or bleeding; not light spamming (maybe just on berserker makes sense...but lower that dmg). I'm not complaining about aramusha, I'm complaining for how you ruined a good tactical fighting game throwing in a bunch of light spamming and unblockables

EDG_Avocado
12-05-2017, 01:49 AM
bye, you will be missed because the game has almost no players left ; (

AkenoKobayashi
12-05-2017, 04:33 AM
AraBots are nightmares due to the light feint chain.

Dasteel1974
12-05-2017, 07:03 AM
He is. Plain and simple. People that say get good just donít grasp the concept that parrying the fast hits in the game while trying to figure out which side he is coming from and if he is gonna feint is almost impossible for average players. Then add his block everything move that has guaranteed hits. And donít hand me the crap about wait for the top. Unless you are excellent at the game and know all the moves, he will light you up. Level 3 bots are insane. I have played rounds where I never landed a hit. Speeds kills and this guys has speed, feints, stamina and the easiest parry in the game. Let somebody get to be a rep 30-40 with him and be a master of the feint and you will see somebody that is pretty much unbeatable.

Zombie.Face
12-05-2017, 10:22 AM
U can't have a class that just shuts down all assassins. no other class completely shuts down a whole 25% of the characters... his light attack spam is fu...ing ********TTTT. Ive never wanted to throw my controller against the wall so hard and rage as when i fight this guy and he spams the **** out of me..cant even dodge out? can't react? fun.. so i just set down my controller and watch the ****,,,ing **** go down.

Arekonator
12-05-2017, 10:32 AM
I love the irony of assassin players complaining about light spam.

Klingentaenz3r
12-05-2017, 03:20 PM
I love the irony of assassin players complaining about light spam.
I have to smirk about this one too

btw if I read right OP was not complaining about Aramusha. His concerns were with the lightspamming assassins.

Tatsumaru.
12-08-2017, 03:28 AM
Hi Eyyupyeser - we've seen this feedback on the Aramusha from assassin players in particular, and have made sure to pass it on to the team.

Itís the reflex guard bug thatís the problem. This bug has plagued assasins since launch. The bug was acknowledged during a Warriors Den Live stream in Season 2 and we were assured you were working on it. The short of it is; it never got fixed, I quit the game for nearly 2 seasons as a result, came back last week, and the bug is STILL in the game.....and now we have Aramushaís light unlimited chain which really exposes the bug against Orochi. As Orochi, the bug prevents me from effectively blocking the chain or parrying.

Tatsumaru.
12-08-2017, 03:29 AM
If you are Assassin class, yes Aramusha can prove problematic with his top-side light combo; however it's not impossible to counter. It's been proven in other threads he's perfectly counterable even with reflex guard, it's just a tighter window. I suggest you check around for more info on how to counter Aramusha.

You clearly donít play an assassin but Iíd be curious to know which threads youíre referencing that must clearly explain how to negate the reflex guard bug against Aramusha?

Tatsumaru.
12-08-2017, 03:35 AM
Has anyone considered that Aramusha might just be a counter class to assassins? Or rather I should say players who play assassins badly. You have dodge strikes. Use them. You also have deflects. Overly aggressive Aramusha are vulnerable to both dodge strikes and deflects. The counter class to Aramusha are characters that are good turtles. Conqs, Wardens, Lawbringers, Warlords and Shugos have the potential to completely negate Aramusha.

Please actually play the character for a while instead of just whinging about him without understanding how he does what he does.

You obviously donít play Assassin. The reflex guard bug prevents you from blocking or parrying, which means your are stuck in a flenching animation from getting hit. Because youíre endlessly flenching you cant deflect. Ive been spamming double dodge back everytime i get stuck in the chain and he still lands about 5-7 hits before i can get out.

Baturai
12-08-2017, 04:18 AM
Aramusha's first light is dodgeable but second light youill get hit anyways becuz he has Tracking speed and range for some reason :/ this is whatt devs have to remove.
He can simply chain combo with infinite stamina. if you dodge 1 light the second light is guaranted. no way for you to block it or dodge again his light speed is faster than your stance/ guard recovery.. you're trapped. you know whats even more fun ? Turtle Aramusha xD

bob333e
12-08-2017, 01:15 PM
Warden main here. For me, the only real problematic Aramushas are those who employ a clever use of feints mid-combo, they're good at confusing you on which side to block the next attack, and they keep landing hits. Until I land a superior block or a CC. I then retake the upper hand. It's worse if I'm OOS because I cannot land a superior block but still, I don't really complain; it's simply how Aramusha is played, I only gotta adapt. Plus, these skilled Aramushas are rare. Note that I mostly play Duels and Brawls, hence why Rocksteady doesn't affect me as much (but it does when I play 4v4s).

As for Shaman, my only issues with her are 1) her excessive advantage gain if the Predator's Mercy lands, and 2) players who spam jump attacks and dodge attacks nearly all the time, coupled with latency and red NAT. Fighting real skilled Shamans has not really been an issue, they use her so well that it becomes delicious to try to counter her feinting game, rather than annoying. But again, skilled Shamans are rare.

Heroes with dodge attacks have less trouble against Aramushas and Shamans.

However I do agree, the OG roster definitely could use a rework to up their game.

GOD666MACHINE
12-08-2017, 02:45 PM
For me, the Aramusha isn't so bad... The chain requires a top light to keep going so a top block is always where to go... The Shaman is a friggin mess of a character... The zone spam from a Shaman is nonsense... The range of her leap and charge are INSANE... In 4v4 with multiple Shaman on a team is friggin dumb... I take the leave match penalty graciously when there are multiple Shaman against me... 2v2 or 1v1 Shaman is a bit better but still... The range on the leap attack and unlockable charge are INSANE... Agreed though.. this game has run it's course for me... Season 4 characters and NO DEDICATED SERVERS has pushed me farther away from UBISOFT than ever before... If Far Cry 5 is a broke game then I'm done with UBISOFT TOTALLY

Vakris_One
12-08-2017, 03:03 PM
You obviously donít play Assassin. The reflex guard bug prevents you from blocking or parrying, which means your are stuck in a flenching animation from getting hit. Because youíre endlessly flenching you cant deflect. Ive been spamming double dodge back everytime i get stuck in the chain and he still lands about 5-7 hits before i can get out.
I do actually. I play Orochi (rep 5), PK (rep 3) and Shaman (rep 0) and although I don't main any of them I know how to play them. I'm not familiar with the reflex guard bug however, probably because I don't main an assassin. I have noticed that if I get hit it sometimes becomes a bit random as to whether I'll block the next strike but it hasn't happened consistently enough to me. I usually chalk it up to me not switching my guard stance fast enough.

I also tend not to rely a lot on blocking when I use an assassin. I go for dodge strikes to get out of continuous attacks and parrying the first hit to prevent continuous assaults entirely as well as applying pressure with Orochi and PK's zone to keep the opponent from starting a chain on me. I'm not yet confident enough to use deflects when in a pinch but I've seen others do it against me.

When fighting against Aramusha if I'm getting hit too much by his lights I stop trying to block/parry and I start dodge striking, pressuring him with zone and punishing overly aggressive Musha's with the Orochi's storm rush and back dash > top heavy forward hit. The Shaman has a similiar move plus the game's largest bag of tricks and with the PK I back dash when in trouble and she has lights equally as fast as the Musha.

This video is a good example of how an Orochi can deal with both Aramusha and Shaman respectively:

https://youtu.be/9WKYDo-ux7U

Okita_Soji..
12-08-2017, 06:54 PM
While I agree the new heroes can be handled the video is a poor example of it. I watch his videos a lot and he is quite good. The shamen in the video is not good, just kept trying the jump attack. The 1st aramusha didn't do the infinite combo. The 2nd did in Round 3 and the start of round 4. Watch how he handles it. He got wrecked. With reflex guard it is a nightmare once he gets going.

I only use 2 heroes and with my Kensei the aramusha is not a big deal, leave it on top guard and adjust if needed. For everyone saying he's not a big deal and not using reflex guard just stop. That video shows someone who is good at this game with orochi and getting destroyed by the combo. He won but the combo is the issue.

SlashingElbow
12-08-2017, 07:14 PM
Please leave the game, i want to play ppl with actual skills

Vakris_One
12-08-2017, 07:16 PM
While I agree the new heroes can be handled the video is a poor example of it. I watch his videos a lot and he is quite good. The shamen in the video is not good, just kept trying the jump attack. The 1st aramusha didn't do the infinite combo. The 2nd did in Round 3 and the start of round 4. Watch how he handles it. He got wrecked. With reflex guard it is a nightmare once he gets going.

I only use 2 heroes and with my Kensei the aramusha is not a big deal, leave it on top guard and adjust if needed. For everyone saying he's not a big deal and not using reflex guard just stop. That video shows someone who is good at this game with orochi and getting destroyed by the combo. He won but the combo is the issue.
The video showed that he can win against Aramusha (if he plays better than him) which a lot of people claim is impossible because the chain combo. He started avoiding the chain combo by maintaining his distance, using the Orochi's storm rush and using quick in and out hits with the zone and double top light thereby not allowing the Aramusha to use that combo. I've used the same tactic so I just don't see a huge insurmountable problem here that cannot be overcome with practice, effort and experience.

Okita_Soji..
12-08-2017, 08:01 PM
Yes I agree he did win when the combo wasn't used. When the combo was used he lost and couldn't stop it. Now picture the same thing in 4v4 with the combo happening while your facing another opponent or your vise versa. With regular guard it is not nearly as hard. Mind you 2v1's can get ugly no matter what but with reflex it is totally different. Again he won all 3 fights but the combo is the issue. When it is used even he couldn't stop it. His opponents didn't exploit (spam) it so they lost.

Lord_Letholdus
12-12-2017, 01:59 AM
Aramusha Unstoppable? I mean, not really.. His light pattern HAS to return to the top to keep going, so just expect it, as for his Blade Blockade, just feint and watch him throw it down, then GB and Free Heavy. He's not unstoppable, and this is coming from a Rep 7 Aramusha himself.. He's not unstoppable, just think of different ways to work around him

ChampionRuby50g
12-12-2017, 03:27 AM
You obviously donít play Assassin. The reflex guard bug prevents you from blocking or parrying, which means your are stuck in a flenching animation from getting hit. Because youíre endlessly flenching you cant deflect. Ive been spamming double dodge back everytime i get stuck in the chain and he still lands about 5-7 hits before i can get out.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/7da0vv/aramusha_light_spam_reflex_guard_blocking_bug/

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no reflex Guard bug. I've never had a problem blocking/deflecting as any assassin agasint any attacks.
It's in your head.
I play on console with average internet and I don't have a problem, majority of the time.
Instead of spamming double dodge back, instead Dodge once forward when you get hit on the side by an Aramusha using their chain you will get a free easy deflect. It's seriously not that hard.

Tobias96716
12-12-2017, 03:37 AM
A lot of people are missing the point...the light spam infinite combo on a assassin hero locks him in unless he (the Aramusha) tries to sneak in a heavy or he messes up...no way to really win against it on console as a assassin....

bob333e
12-12-2017, 03:45 AM
You clearly don’t play an assassin but I’d be curious to know which threads you’re referencing that must clearly explain how to negate the reflex guard bug against Aramusha?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoz8LrQHIuA

Saved you some scrolling until this video, so I linked the video directly instead. You're welcome.

Ackturi
12-12-2017, 03:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoz8LrQHIuA

Saved you some scrolling until this video, so I linked the video directly instead. You're welcome.

I know you know that the connection in these custom matches are totally different in real matches and connections.....

Also there is a known issue with the console's 30fps making it too fast to even react to. Add this to the connection/lag timings then yes some people can actually get stunlocked.

bob333e
12-12-2017, 03:51 AM
I know you know that the connection in these custom matches are totally different in real matches and connections.....

Also there is a known issue with the console's 30fps making it too fast to even react to. Add this to the connection/lag timings then yes some people can actually get stunlocked.

Valid point, but his argument wasn't lag. His argument was 'reflex guard bug'. Lag messes up a lot of things anyway. Not just blocking Aramusha.

Ackturi
12-12-2017, 03:56 AM
Valid point, but his argument wasn't lag. His argument was 'reflex guard bug'. Lag messes up a lot of things anyway. Not just blocking Aramusha.

Well there is an issue of reflex guard not activating upon immediate swapping of the guard stance. Normal guard does not experience that because it's always on. But there are attacks that go through right before reflex guard turns white......

Meaning you react to something and it takes 100ms to activate your guard but you didn't react PREEMPTIVELY enough to align your guard with the quick 500ms attack.......

How can devs say it's reactive when the game doesn't go based on the player input but rather a set time to activate AFTER input.


Same issue with things like full block. They want you to predict moves because it takes some time to activate.... LOL why would you hinder my reaction timing by further making it go slower?

bob333e
12-12-2017, 04:06 AM
Well there is an issue of reflex guard not activating upon immediate swapping of the guard stance. Normal guard does not experience that because it's always on. But there are attacks that go through right before reflex guard turns white......

Meaning you react to something and it takes 100ms to activate your guard but you didn't react PREEMPTIVELY enough to align your guard with the quick 500ms attack.......

How can devs say it's reactive when the game doesn't go based on the player input but rather a set time to activate AFTER input.


Same issue with things like full block. They want you to predict moves because it takes some time to activate.... LOL why would you hinder my reaction timing by further making it go slower?

Input delay, I've felt it at times on my Warden; similarly, at times I could swear I had the timing right for a feint, but the heavy attack slips through, and I eat a parry. The same is true for clicking the analog to run. At times I have to click it twice to enable the running animation. Mind you, these quick outbursts of input delay have been happening since S4 release. One of the many issues that the S4 patch introduced. One thing I can be sure of, it's not strictly tied to assassins. Now I'm not sure if this issue you speak of has been around since before S4. If so, I cannot speak on behalf of knowledge, I do not use assassins much.
I agree about the full-block (on Warlord at least) that it should activate a bit earlier during its animation. But that's an entirely different thing than what I was answering the guy above with.

ChampionRuby50g
12-12-2017, 04:22 AM
A lot of people are missing the point...the light spam infinite combo on a assassin hero locks him in unless he (the Aramusha) tries to sneak in a heavy or he messes up...no way to really win against it on console as a assassin....

Wrong, as Shaman and PK (my only two Assassins) I've countered countless Aramushas with no problem and even deflecting their infinite light chain.

Ackturi
12-12-2017, 08:04 AM
Input delay, I've felt it at times on my Warden; similarly, at times I could swear I had the timing right for a feint, but the heavy attack slips through, and I eat a parry. The same is true for clicking the analog to run. At times I have to click it twice to enable the running animation. Mind you, these quick outbursts of input delay have been happening since S4 release. One of the many issues that the S4 patch introduced. One thing I can be sure of, it's not strictly tied to assassins. Now I'm not sure if this issue you speak of has been around since before S4. If so, I cannot speak on behalf of knowledge, I do not use assassins much.
I agree about the full-block (on Warlord at least) that it should activate a bit earlier during its animation. But that's an entirely different thing than what I was answering the guy above with.

The issue causing all of this reflex guard debates is 99% connection and with the new servers hopefully it'll be better.

I swear sometimes even zerk lights are faster than 400ms to block. Reflex guard has indeed had issues since before S4. The reason anyone with fast lights are able to get through most assassins blocks is because the connection input isn't fast enough to read the reflex to block it.

Knight_Raime
12-12-2017, 10:08 AM
Well there is an issue of reflex guard not activating upon immediate swapping of the guard stance. Normal guard does not experience that because it's always on. But there are attacks that go through right before reflex guard turns white......

Meaning you react to something and it takes 100ms to activate your guard but you didn't react PREEMPTIVELY enough to align your guard with the quick 500ms attack.......

How can devs say it's reactive when the game doesn't go based on the player input but rather a set time to activate AFTER input.


Same issue with things like full block. They want you to predict moves because it takes some time to activate.... LOL why would you hinder my reaction timing by further making it go slower?

That's because block is not active on reflex immediately. If reflex guard heros could block constantly like standard heros they would be broken. Reflex heros get more offensive options at the cost of defensive options.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 01:25 PM
Reflex heros get more offensive options at the cost of defensive options.

Oh, do they? I would like you to list Orochi's offensive options, please.

Knight_Raime
12-14-2017, 01:29 PM
Oh, do they? I would like you to list Orochi's offensive options, please.

Dodge attacks and deflects.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 01:37 PM
Dodge attacks and deflects.
Both of which are counters, not offensive options. The opponent needs to actually attack you first in order to have a use for these 2 attacks. Also, a parry - which can be done by ANY character - is a better counter option than the 2 you just named.

So, no, try again.

Knight_Raime
12-14-2017, 01:44 PM
Both of which are counters, not offensive options. The opponent needs to actually attack you first in order to have a use for these 2 attacks. Also, a parry - which can be done by ANY character - is a better counter option than the 2 you just named.

So, no, try again.

Doesn't matter what you consider an offensive option. Those 2 things are offensive options in the eyes of the developers.
And not entirely true. Deflects in a majority of cases are far better against ranged attacks than standard parries are.

Charmzzz
12-14-2017, 01:55 PM
Both of which are counters, not offensive options. The opponent needs to actually attack you first in order to have a use for these 2 attacks. Also, a parry - which can be done by ANY character - is a better counter option than the 2 you just named.

So, no, try again.

Have to say that Knight_Raime is correct, those 2 options are almost exclusive to Assassins (except dodge attacks on Kensei and Valk?). Deflects are harder to pull off, but they give especially Orochi and Berserker a move that is superior to alot of other moves. And Deflects do not suffer from the "out of range" bullsht you have when facing Nobushi, Kensei, Lawbringer, Valk and Shugoki.

Orochi gets 3 options from it:
- guaranteed "Light" for 25 Damage
- "Heavy" for 50 Damage
- Cancel into GB for 35 Damage (guaranteed heavy top)

Berserker gets a guaranteed GB for 33/55 Damage.

Also, Orochi has the hardest hitting light combo in the game with a combined 32 of guaranteed damage if the first top light connects.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 01:57 PM
Doesn't matter what you consider an offensive option. Those 2 things are offensive options in the eyes of the developers.
And not entirely true. Deflects in a majority of cases are far better against ranged attacks than standard parries are.

Offensive means I am actively attacking the enemy. If I need the enemy to attack for my attack to even work, this makes it a defensive option by definition. But if you get hung up on the terminology, let's put it differently: name Orochi's OPENERS, as compared to a character with standard guard, like Warden for example, and see who has more options...

Also, tell me ONE attack by ANY character where a deflect presents less risk and/or more reward than a parry.

Alustar.
12-14-2017, 02:14 PM
Offensive means I am actively attacking the enemy. If I need the enemy to attack for my attack to even work, this makes it a defensive option by definition. But if you get hung up on the terminology, let's put it differently: name Orochi's OPENERS, as compared to a character with standard guard, like Warden for example, and see who has more options...

Also, tell me ONE attack by ANY character where a deflect presents less risk and/or more reward than a parry.

You do realize every one of these concerns will be addressed and rectified with reworks that have already been announced? I ran peacekeeper almost exclusively till season 3, I get the frustration, but if you haven't moved to another hero temporarily, then you need to make peace with what you have, and just hold out for a little while.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 02:24 PM
You do realize every one of these concerns will be addressed and rectified with reworks that have already been announced? I ran peacekeeper almost exclusively till season 3, I get the frustration, but if you haven't moved to another hero temporarily, then you need to make peace with what you have, and just hold out for a little while.

Reworks have been announced, yes. A long time ago. I will believe them when I see them.
Also, don't get me wrong, I do like the challenge, which is why I have been playing Orochi almost exclusively ever since launch. Still, against some characters I sometimes lose because of a lacking moveset, and I don't like that. Don't get me wrong tho, I love Orochi and his playstyle and I believe that most Orochi players choose Orochi exactly BECAUSE it takes better reflexes and better knowledge of the enemy than other characters where you can just use bread&butter combos. Objectively however, Orochi is one of the weakest characters, meaning that if 2 people of equal skill duel each other, the Orochi player will most likely lose every matchup, and that's to be corrected.

Charmzzz
12-14-2017, 02:24 PM
Offensive means I am actively attacking the enemy. If I need the enemy to attack for my attack to even work, this makes it a defensive option by definition. But if you get hung up on the terminology, let's put it differently: name Orochi's OPENERS, as compared to a character with standard guard, like Warden for example, and see who has more options...

Also, tell me ONE attack by ANY character where a deflect presents less risk and/or more reward than a parry.

What alustar24 said, everybody knows that some Characters lack unblockables from neutral to force a reaction. Your last sentence was already explained in my post before. Take any high range Character - there you have a higher reward for deflecting because you will automatically get your damage or mixup. On parry those heroes are often out of range, even for a light / zone.

Charmzzz
12-14-2017, 02:26 PM
Reworks have been announced, yes. A long time ago. I will believe them when I see them.
Also, don't get me wrong, I do like the challenge, which is why I have been playing Orochi almost exclusively ever since launch. Still, against some characters I sometimes lose because of a lacking moveset, and I don't like that. Don't get me wrong tho, I love Orochi and his playstyle and I believe that most Orochi players choose Orochi exactly BECAUSE it takes better reflexes and better knowledge of the enemy than other characters where you can just use bread&butter combos. Objectively however, Orochi is one of the weakest characters, meaning that if 2 people of equal skill duel each other, the Orochi player will most likely lose every matchup, and that's to be corrected.

Holy, you have literally no idea how good Orochi is in Duels. They get very far in any Ranked Tournament I have played and on all those Online Tournaments, too. Double Top Light / Zone / Dodge Attack. What else do you need?

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 02:33 PM
Holy, you have literally no idea how good Orochi is in Duels. They get very far in any Ranked Tournament I have played and on all those Online Tournaments, too. Double Top Light / Zone / Dodge Attack. What else do you need?

Oh, I know, don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining about my win/loss ratio, I know you can absolutely own with Orochi. All I'm saying is that it's not the CHARACTER that's particularly good, but the people PLAYING Orochi. If Orochi got buffed, those players would dominate - and rightfully so - and then everyone would start complaining about how OP Orochi is now. But actually it's just really good players who spent the last year practising with a broken character ;)

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 02:39 PM
Same goes for Kensei, by the way, doubly so. I have the highest respect for people who have mastered this character to a degree where they can actually win duels.

Charmzzz
12-14-2017, 02:48 PM
Oh, I know, don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining about my win/loss ratio, I know you can absolutely own with Orochi. All I'm saying is that it's not the CHARACTER that's particularly good, but the people PLAYING Orochi. If Orochi got buffed, those players would dominate - and rightfully so - and then everyone would start complaining about how OP Orochi is now. But actually it's just really good players who spent the last year practising with a broken character ;)

You are completely underestimating Orochi. And in the same second you lay out your epeen of how good you have to be because you "own" with Orochi. Embarrassing and pathetic. Yes, Orochi was and still is kinda "broken". His Zone Flicker was, for ages, one of the best tools in Duels in the whole game. His 500ms Top Light for 32 Damage is, by far, the hardest hitting 500ms move in the game. He has the best Deflect options out of all Assassins. Storm Rush into guaranteed double Top Light is one of the hardest hitting ganking moves.

He is, in many ways, superior to other Characters, especially on Console (I play on PC though). He has better tools than PK, but PK gets all the hate. Funny how you try to explain how underpowered your favorite Character is, as that is pretty common with all younger players.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 03:00 PM
Funny how you try to explain how underpowered your favorite Character is, as that is pretty common with all younger players.

LOL. I'm 35, kid. Also, don't get me started on zone attack. A move that you can only do once every 15 seconds because it drains your stamina like hell and which has horrible range is not exactly a valuable tool. Compare it to Warden's zone, which is faster, has insane forward range and drains less stamina, and your argument becomes invalid, considering Warden even has an unblockable opener with GB mixup on top of that. Also, on the level I play at, almost every enemy is able to block/parry zone.

Vakris_One
12-14-2017, 03:15 PM
LOL. I'm 35, kid. Also, don't get me started on zone attack. A move that you can only do once every 15 seconds because it drains your stamina like hell and which has horrible range is not exactly a valuable tool. Compare it to Warden's zone, which is faster, has insane forward range and drains less stamina, and your argument becomes invalid, considering Warden even has an unblockable opener with GB mixup on top of that. Also, on the level I play at, almost every enemy is able to block/parry zone.
You're incorrect about Orochi's zone being worse than Warden's and about super fast zones in general. They are a very viable tool because of their speed and the constant threat they present to the opponent, i.e. forcing them to almost always keep their guard in the direction of your zone. A fast zone gives a character an attack option over another character that does not have a fast zone.

Now Warden's zone, if it whiffs it leaves him frozen for a second and vulnerable to being hit with an attack. If the opponent blocks his zone they get a free GB on him. The Orochi has no such negatives to his zone.

Charmzzz
12-14-2017, 03:21 PM
LOL. I'm 35, kid. Also, don't get me started on zone attack. A move that you can only do once every 15 seconds because it drains your stamina like hell and which has horrible range is not exactly a valuable tool. Compare it to Warden's zone, which is faster, has insane forward range and drains less stamina, and your argument becomes invalid, considering Warden even has an unblockable opener with GB mixup on top of that. Also, on the level I play at, almost every enemy is able to block/parry zone.

I am not a kid, I am 36. Your "style" of argumentation made you look like a younger person, I apologize. Then again, you keep showing that you have little idea of how the game works. Orochi Zone is one of the best Zone Attacks in the game and it is superior to Warden Zone because it is not unsafe on block. I guess I have to explain this: if you just block (!!!) Warden Zone you will get a guaranteed Guardbreak on him. If you block Orochi Zone you get nothing. Both Zone Attacks are 500ms fast and deal 20 Damage (you are wrong on "faster"). Now tell me again that Warden Zone is better...

See here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

In Duels it is irrelevant how often you can do the move. Do it - dodge back while enemy recovers - repeat. I do not like this playstyle or play like that myself, but it is effective. Especially on PS where you are playing. And you really want to pull the "on my level of play" card?

This is your profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/eLhabib
This is mine: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

In Duels we are not far from each other, but I am on PC where it is easier to handle Assassins.

Edit: btw Orochi Top Light or Zone completely counters Warden dodge into SB opener like any other 500ms Attack does.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 04:07 PM
Oh look, how convenient that you are exactly one year older than me... ;)

And I disagree about the usefulness of Orochi's zone in duels.

Charmzzz
12-14-2017, 04:11 PM
Oh look, how convenient that you are exactly one year older than me... ;)

And I disagree about the usefulness of Orochi's zone in duels.

And now you are accusing me of lying. Nice. I got 36 on the 30th of November, you can ask several people on here that I play with (qwalla-.-, odinlovesme, ahabb and others). Alright, you disagree. That's fine with me as long as you stop spreading false info on here.

bob333e
12-14-2017, 04:22 PM
And now you are accusing me of lying. Nice. I got 36 on the 30th of November, you can ask several people on here that I play with (qwalla-.-, odinlovesme, ahabb and others). Alright, you disagree. That's fine with me as long as you stop spreading false info on here.

Don't bother with these kind of people man. Like, one or two comments to them at best. They'll just negate everything you say and argue further down a rabbit hole. You gave him solid facts, he returned nothing but rants and a condescending tone.

eLhabib
12-14-2017, 04:53 PM
And now you are accusing me of lying.

Did I, tho? Anyway, say what you will, Orochi has a lacking toolset - ask people who play him. Again, I am not whining about it, as I think I can make him work for me, but it doesn't change the fact.

Knight_Raime
12-14-2017, 09:32 PM
Offensive means I am actively attacking the enemy. If I need the enemy to attack for my attack to even work, this makes it a defensive option by definition. But if you get hung up on the terminology, let's put it differently: name Orochi's OPENERS, as compared to a character with standard guard, like Warden for example, and see who has more options...

Also, tell me ONE attack by ANY character where a deflect presents less risk and/or more reward than a parry.

You're the one getting hung up on terminology. It doesn't matter what the definition is by the book. These are the rules of the game as written by the devs.
Only 3 people who have dash attacks that are not assassins are knesei, valk, and bushi. Valk and bushi are part assassin hybrid wise though. So it would really seem kensei is the exception to the rule. Anyway.

I already did. When you parry a ranged attack on most heros you get weak damage. This is because you can't secure a GB for best damage. Deflect pulls you towards the person ignoring the ranged aspect. Zerk gets a free untechable GB from deflect. Which can give her top heavy which does more damage than most heavies in the game. and if the person is OOS when zerk deflects she can throw for a 90 damage combo. Glads bleed I think is something around 37? damage if you hold it completely. and if you throw into a wall and skewer again it's 50 damage.
Orochi deflects are comparable to or stronger than a standard heavy. etc.

Point is. Deflects are better barring a few situations against ranged attacks exclusively. Parrying is safer yes. But predictably they are going to be worse reward wise come the parry changes. giving deflect a chance to be more worth going for outside ranged attacks almost only.

lowhappyface
12-21-2017, 04:52 PM
it wont let you deflect he stun locks you and yes you can block him BUT if he is a good aramusha he WILL use his feint, though i have recently figured out how to deal with him