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View Full Version : Someone please enlighten me on Shaman recovery times



We.the.North
12-01-2017, 03:04 AM
I play Shinobi and here is what I find extremely frustrating against Shaman :

#1 : His leap attack put him out of range of my kick when I double dodge out of it. As a result, he's the one punishing me for dodging his attack.

#2 : He recovers so fast from a dodge attack (which chains into stuff) that I can't even light attack him fast enough even when he whiffs his dodge attack.

#3 : Worst of all, if I backflip (hyperarmor) WHILE HE HITS ME, he'll recovery faster than I can instant ranged guardbreak him and he'll counter guardbreak me.


Beside parrying, how the **** do you punish a shaman ?? I swear, I'm playing once every blue moon hoping not to get burned out on this already mess of a game and **** like this just makes me ragequit and not look back for another 4-7 days.

I though Gladiator with his ******ed fast recovery was a pain in the ***, Shaman is 10x worst. The timing of punishes using Shinobi's kit is all ****ed up and very little things actually work. The other things THAT WORKS ON ALMOST EVERY OTHER HERO IN THE GAME actually punishes you for using it.

WABO423
12-01-2017, 03:21 AM
Try fighting her up close, she has very good gap closers, from neutral she has pretty slow start ups. Use deflects parries, and light attacks. Your lights should shut her down. When she dodges, dodge in the same direction for a deflect.
Just stick on her and play aggressive.

Knight_Raime
12-01-2017, 04:20 AM
Generally speaking you have to be the aggressor against shaman in most match ups. Only create distance on her if you are going to do something that will still keep her on her toes.
Shinobi's double lights work well in cqc at canceling her mix ups. The kick I believe can be used to punish some of her attacks. But it can't be done on reaction like other assassins dodge attacks as a general answer to her. One thing that's worked for me is using his ranged attacks if she attempts to engage from a distance. range attacks in general are NOT her friend.
I also do an insta GB after a whiffed kick or landed kick to mix up on the shaman who's trying to pin me down.

Fairemont
12-01-2017, 05:38 PM
Last night I played against a shaman with my Nobushi and every time he tried to pounce, leap, gap-close, or even just generic attack, I poked him out of it with a light. Just mercilessly slaughtered him. Next time he saw me he just stopped, turned around, and ran away. Felt good.

bob333e
12-01-2017, 05:58 PM
There's a good amount of information on this thread on how to counter Shaman, as well as info concerning her timings, combos, and mixups. I hope more people find this useful :)

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1795611-Countering-Shaman-(both-pre-nerf-and-post-nerf)

We.the.North
12-01-2017, 11:31 PM
There's a good amount of information on this thread on how to counter Shaman, as well as info concerning her timings, combos, and mixups. I hope more people find this useful

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...and-post-nerf)

This is a good point to start regarding generalized punish. This post will give you the how to "dodge / light / heavy" punish, but nothing specific to a character. Thus, I would like to put the discussion back on track : Shinobi.

I would like to ask other Shinobi players how do they utilise his kit to punish Shaman, more precisely :

- Double dodge kick : is it any useful as a counterattack tool, mostly against Shaman leap attack ... answer : NO, you'll be out of range
- Rolling forward mix up : Is there something you can do that works well against Shaman ... answer : NO, her dodge attack will punish your kick / heavy / wait + gb / double light.
- Whif + Backflip ranged GB : Will it work if the Shaman gets tricked into whiffing an attack back ... answer : NO, the shaman recovers in time to counter guardbreak you

TLDR : Shinobi's whole kit is useless against the Shaman because of his recoveries or speed of attack. As a Shinobi, to successfully counter Shaman, you need to rely on what EVERY SINGLE OTHER CHARACTERS IN THE GAME HAS, namely : dodge, light, heavy. Your kit is absolutely useless.

This is also the case with Gladiator, Berserker and Kensei where their attack animation and punishes shutdown everything "unique" in the Shinobi's kit. I feel like the Dev did not test those matchup and as a result, you feel punished for playing Shinobi.

WABO423
12-02-2017, 12:17 AM
Iím not the best with shinobi but doing the most common mix ups and same tactics that everyone is used to will not work. Refrain from the dodge kicks and ranged guard breaks as she will punish you and this is expected from a shinobi. Instead focus on using your quick lights, deflecting, parrying and fighting up close. No you canít use most of his unique kit because people know what to expect from him now. You can use your ranged attacks to shut her pounces down if there is enough range between you. But close quarter combat is your best bet. She has no hyper armor so your lights will stop anything she does. Basically what works is like what Knight Raime said he attacked with lights as a nobushi every time she tried anything and left her unable to do anything. Aggression is key, her startups are slow with the exception of her pounce attacks.

We.the.North
12-02-2017, 02:40 AM
No you can’t use most of his unique kit because people know what to expect from him now.

And that's why playing Shinobi is so difficult. A true "master" Shinobi don't use ranged GB from neutral, that's dumb...

A true master Shinobi knows which of his unique move is GARANTEED against which character's moves. The hardest thing to master is probably the backflip + ranged guardbreak, because you need to memorize which character has slow enough recovery so they can't counter guardbreak you after they whiff an attack and which will punish you for even attempting it.

The reason I'm so mad, it's because 3 / 6 of the DLC characters have absurdly fast recovery (Gladiator, Aramusha, Shaman) and most of Highlander moves are so long your ranged guardbreak after backflip will "whiff" because he is still in his attacking animation. Seems like most DLC character after Shinobi was released were not properly tested to allow Shinobi to have a "window" during which he can use his kit to outplay his opponent into a garanteed ranged guardbreak sickle rain punish.

It's sad when the only way to do this at the moment is after a light attack parry ... Fishing for parry not only reinforce the turtle meta, it's also what every single other character in the game is going for at the moment.

In 1v1 situations, I'm not playing a Shinobi, I'm playing a random dude throwing lights aggressively and fishing for parry punish. There's nothing unique and Shinobi about that.

WABO423
12-02-2017, 03:29 AM
In shamans case her recovery time has been increased on the wild cats pounce (the leaping heavy attack), the tracking hasnít been changed yet. Iím betting after that is fixed you would be able to double dodge into guaranteed gb into sickle rain for the punish.

bob333e
12-02-2017, 03:37 AM
In shamans case her recovery time has been increased on the wild cats pounce (the leaping heavy attack), the tracking hasn’t been changed yet. I’m betting after that is fixed you would be able to double dodge into guaranteed gb into sickle rain for the punish.

The tracking on her jumping heavy attack is fine; only, you must dodge slightly after she starts her jumping animation, not at same time. She has a small delay in the animation before she starts swinging the axe. It's a clever move to punish panic dodging. She's just too good.

Her Predator's Mercy though, yup, tracking will be fixed mid-December. Can't wait. By then I'll be able to finally try tournaments without worrying about a legitimate broken hitbox on a major part of Shaman's moveset, because I know many, many players will be choosing Shaman in tournaments. And I'd like to be fully able to dodge that at mid and close ranges :p

bob333e
12-02-2017, 03:40 AM
And that's why playing Shinobi is so difficult. A true "master" Shinobi don't use ranged GB from neutral, that's dumb...

A true master Shinobi knows which of his unique move is GARANTEED against which character's moves. The hardest thing to master is probably the backflip + ranged guardbreak, because you need to memorize which character has slow enough recovery so they can't counter guardbreak you after they whiff an attack and which will punish you for even attempting it.

The reason I'm so mad, it's because 3 / 6 of the DLC characters have absurdly fast recovery (Gladiator, Aramusha, Shaman) and most of Highlander moves are so long your ranged guardbreak after backflip will "whiff" because he is still in his attacking animation. Seems like most DLC character after Shinobi was released were not properly tested to allow Shinobi to have a "window" during which he can use his kit to outplay his opponent into a garanteed ranged guardbreak sickle rain punish.

It's sad when the only way to do this at the moment is after a light attack parry ... Fishing for parry not only reinforce the turtle meta, it's also what every single other character in the game is going for at the moment.

In 1v1 situations, I'm not playing a Shinobi, I'm playing a random dude throwing lights aggressively and fishing for parry punish. There's nothing unique and Shinobi about that.

Shaman is the Breaker of Heroes; not the Breaker of The Defense Meta. She counters almost the entire roster. It is up to us to learn how to counter her; and our conventional tactics won't really work, we must rethink strategies, and study her moveset. And I'm enjoying every minute of it. :)