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View Full Version : How is warden good?



Saml84
11-30-2017, 04:56 PM
I am genuinely confused as to how people say warden is good he has one move that is half way decent but they nerfed it and now all you need to do is dodge and it is a free guard break or even worse you just roll back and negate the whole mix up so that leaves him with a decently quick light that gets parried and a zone that is very fast but if it gets blocked it is also a free guard break he is honestly one of the worst characters and shares the smallest move list with the berserker please give him something new.

PDXGorechild
11-30-2017, 05:00 PM
He excels at playing defensively and is arguably one of the best classes for this besides the classes with shields. He is in need of some attention, but he certainly isn't top of the list where buffs are concerned.

Vordred
11-30-2017, 05:09 PM
the Warden is not bad, he can still do really well, but he is really dull. and kind of a 1 trick pony.

I would like to see him get a rework, get rid of the shoulder bash mix up and give him a new kit, as for a guy with a longsword, he spends more time trying to shove people than using the sword.

that being said, i was saying that back in the alpha and beta, that he is good, but just gets really dull to play after a while.

bob333e
11-30-2017, 05:25 PM
Warden main here. Rep 11 now, I play on PS4.

Warden is primarily a counter-attacker. Most of his combat game is countering your opponent and baiting them with feints. I agree that most of his mixup game relies on the shoulder bash, and btw it wasn't "nerfed to the ground", it's still hella useful provided you time it right.

When you dodge with Warden, always follow up with a shoulder bash, feint it if needed, throw a zone, or a top light into shoulder bash again. He's excellent with these mixups and often people won't react in time to his zone, especially if the Warden player knew when to land it.

Warden can also chain his Crushing Counter with yet another shoulder bash and going either double lights and continuing into vortex or throwing double lights, feinting a second SB and initiating a GB, or going double light then feinting a heavy into another SB which in turn is feinted into GB, or top light, SB, double light, SB into GB, wallsplat, side heavy, feint second heavy into GB, wallsplat again.... depends on the situation. There's more still. If you vortex twice, you can bait a dodge and punish it with a SB feinted into GB. And rinse and repeat.

And I still didn't mention parries.

He's not dull by any means. He's easy to play, but hard to master. :)

Saml84
11-30-2017, 05:27 PM
He excels at playing defensively and is arguably one of the best classes for this besides the classes with shields. He is in need of some attention, but he certainly isn't top of the list where buffs are concerned.
One of the best defensive characters besides shield characters? He doesn't even have a ability that helps defense like a shove on block like lb or armor like shug or berserker he was ment to be aggressive hence why they gave him a in move like shoulder bash. Edit: does have crushing counter

bob333e
11-30-2017, 05:29 PM
and kind of a 1 trick pony.

They all are, except Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman. Highlander is so-so, it's really hard to play him in a really good way, but he's still capable of having more than 1 major trick.

DaLast_Samurai
11-30-2017, 11:24 PM
One of the best defensive characters besides shield characters? He doesn't even have a ability that helps defense like a shove on block like lb or armor like shug or berserker he was ment to be aggressive hence why they gave him a in move like shoulder bash. Edit: does have crushing counter

He sure can be against my Orochi.
All the Warden's I ever face are the epitimy of a turtle, without exception.
Which I suppose is how he has to play.

Half of them I can crack open a bit with feints into top lights, guard breaks, or zone attacks.

But the really good ones are impossible to crack open.

Which boggles my mind sometimes because I feint very quickly with my cancle button reassigned to L2.
I actually hit cancel first and heavy simultaneously, and get the quickest feint into attack you'll ever see.

I can't believe sometimes no matter how many ways I try to trick one, they never miss the block and punish me.

I'll feint my right, his left.
No matter if I go for top lights, guard break or zone to the other side...
And more astonishingly, if I come back after a few of these attempts and just side light rather than feint.

At least Orochi can dodge his shoulder bash easily.
And like I said, only about half are really good with him like this.
And less of them fully impossible to this full extent.

But I run into them enough to tell you, there are definitely defensive masters out there with Warden.

Vordred
12-01-2017, 12:26 AM
They all are, except Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman. Highlander is so-so, it's really hard to play him in a really good way, but he's still capable of having more than 1 major trick.

see the Highlander i don't mind it's who i play the most these days, i find him fun. sure he isn't as consistent as the Warden and he has a lot of flaws, but still enjoyable and play around with a lot of stuff. where as with the warden everything is based around that shoulder bash, doesn't matter what you do, it is normally always leading to that shoulder bash mix up.

bob333e
12-01-2017, 12:46 AM
see the Highlander i don't mind it's who i play the most these days, i find him fun. sure he isn't as consistent as the Warden and he has a lot of flaws, but still enjoyable and play around with a lot of stuff. where as with the warden everything is based around that shoulder bash, doesn't matter what you do, it is normally always leading to that shoulder bash mix up.

Yes, everyone except Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman, and Highlander in some cases, ultimately rely on one major trick. It's sad, but it's the origin of the game; nothing got downgraded, it's just the new heroes have set a new standard and I only hope the rework on the original roster gets done in the right way. Without nerfing nor overpowering anybody.

Vordred
12-01-2017, 01:25 AM
Yes, everyone except Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman, and Highlander in some cases, ultimately rely on one major trick. It's sad, but it's the origin of the game; nothing got downgraded, it's just the new heroes have set a new standard and I only hope the rework on the original roster gets done in the right way. Without nerfing nor overpowering anybody.

though thinking about it, i would probably put the Aramusha in a one trick category too.

but yeah, here is hoping for some good reworks, looking forward to the Conq and Zerker ones myself

bob333e
12-01-2017, 01:33 AM
I understand that perspective; because of light top-side combo. Though I have met a minority of really good Aramusha players and I gotta say, it was hard, and delicious, to challenge them. Not only do they feint every 2 hits, but the mixup tends to get very confusing; add to that Blade Blockade and his Deflect-into-grab-into-kick, and his parry-kick, alongside his dash attack openers.... Aramusha is heavily under-used by most who are currently maining him. Heck, I found him even harder than Kensei, and we all know how confusing Kensei can get with good mixups and feints. I'm pretty sure Aramusha has yet other hidden combos but people are too busy resorting to his easiest one for quick free jabs. I don't own any DLC character, but I love training against level 3 bots and check them all out.

I, too, am looking forward for those reworks. It'd be interesting to challenge a new Zerk and a new Conq. I'm curious about Kensei. Imo, he was already fine; let's see how his rework will turn out.

Vordred
12-01-2017, 02:20 AM
yeah but the feints are all part of that same side top side combo. it might look all crazy from the other side, but when doing it yourself, it all feels like the same thing, but it's fairly enjoyable i will admit.

has for the Deflect into grab and kick, he doesn't have a deflect, just the blade blockade. and the kick after his grab is just his normal throw like everyone else, just animation is a kick. (because his hands are full)

Parry Kick, again I'm assuming the blade blockade to kick, only any good if stood right in front of a wall, but even then assassins can dodge it.

the only thing that is guaranteed off the blade blockade is the hilt hit stun.

bob333e
12-01-2017, 02:43 AM
Good thinking, it didn't cross my mind that he has a kick animation because his hands are actually full and he cannot grab and shove with either hand.

Could have sworn it was a deflect, it was chained into a grab and hilt stun; if that was Blade Blockade, I didn't pay attention. A level 3 bot pulls it off on my top lights which are quite fast and I don't often recognize what the bot is doing, I took that as a deflect.

I'm starting to agree Aramusha is hovering more towards being another one-trick pony, with his major trick being his top-side-top combo. Still, he's hella fun to counter; unlike other more gimmicky heroes. Hence why I took him as a more-than-one-trick character.

Thanks for discussing this btw. Always happy to engage in healthy convos.

Vordred
12-01-2017, 02:50 AM
yeah, that's blade blockade.

after that he can do a top-heavy, a side unblockable, a kick that knocks back and stuns, and a hilt hit that stuns.

Knight_Raime
12-01-2017, 04:28 AM
It sounds like you let Shoulder bash fly often or try to use it from neutral. that's not going to work vs decent heros.
Warden isn't considered "good" anymore since your one gimmick of being able to do so much from SB was nerfed a few times.
He's certainly not bad.

Zone is a good interupt on mix ups involving unblockable attacks.
Crushing counter is a serious threat.
Wall throws net top heavies.
OOS punish is strong.
SB being usable from side dodges is situationally helpful against some of the better designed kits.

his main issue is just that he relies on the one gimmick of SB. and now that it's not really great anymore he doesn't feel as good.
I kind of want to see him get a half swording offensive stance situation going on like highlander. but you know. actually usable.

Tyrjo
12-01-2017, 09:24 AM
Because of his SB vortex you can never really pressure him and committing with more than 60% of your stamina. If you can't double roll to gtfo you will eat a lot of damage. His double lights are also nice.