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salthill
01-13-2004, 10:56 AM
hi,
i remember a movie (based in the 30's i think) where there was a subplot about trying to do an outside loop and building a special plane for this. Just wondering if any plane in FB can do this stunt or if its possible at all in RL
and this is also my first post in the new forum

cheers

salthill
01-13-2004, 10:56 AM
hi,
i remember a movie (based in the 30's i think) where there was a subplot about trying to do an outside loop and building a special plane for this. Just wondering if any plane in FB can do this stunt or if its possible at all in RL
and this is also my first post in the new forum

cheers

p1ngu666
01-13-2004, 11:04 AM
hmm, perhaps with a ton of trim, ive seen a 262 do it online, after the pilot ejected
109 is good at bunting, so id suggest that

DONB3397
01-13-2004, 11:22 AM
If you can keep the engine running, the I-153 might be a pretty good candidate for the maneuver -- wingloading and power-to-weight benefits. Red-outs will cause problems.

SpremeCommander
01-13-2004, 11:25 AM
The movie was "The Great Walso Pepper", set in the 20's, with a fictional WWI ace named Ernst Kessler as one of the characters. One of the other characters early on attempts an outside loop in a monoplane.

That outside loop, however, was started at the top of the loop. He pushed the stick forward, and kept pushing, so that at the bottom he was inverted, then kept pushing forward, attempting to climb back up to the top. He never rolls the plane in the attempt. Jesus Christ. Think of the negative Gees!

I have done a half "outside loop" in a Me262, starting off inverted at the bottom, then pushing the stick forward until I arrive at the top, right side up. You walk a fine line of "redding out" when doing this. I don't think I tried completing the loop by pushing the stick forward again. I think the negative Gees would be too much in a 262. A Bf109E might be able to do this move.

SpremeCommander
01-13-2004, 11:26 AM
OOps, I mean "Waldo Pepper".

TX-EcoDragon
01-13-2004, 01:36 PM
Any plane that can handle ~4 negative G's and has sufficient elevator authority and speed can do it. In FB I have done them in all aircraft I have tried them, namelly the P-51, P-39, Bf109, Fw190 A5, Zero, Ki-84, LA7.

I would assume that with the exception of the 153, the early Hurri, and the i16 you will be fine provided sufficient airspeed, altitude, and execution.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
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AirBot
01-13-2004, 01:55 PM
I think any human that can handle -4 Gs is a superman http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TX-EcoDragon
01-13-2004, 02:02 PM
I limit myself to around -5, however many of the more practiced aerobatic pilots I know and fly with will pull twice that for short periods. I wouldn't say that it is comfortable though. In the case of the loop,that G loading only lasts about 3 seconds

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

(Former)Reserve Pilot Aircraft #2 of Gruppo 313
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http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

BS87
01-13-2004, 07:02 PM
In FB i've done it in the 190A5 a few times. Usually i red/blackout and crash, but sometimes i can get it just right, and hear my pursuer smash into the ground.

AirBot
01-15-2004, 08:52 AM
Are you a real pilot?

I always thought such high negative Gs are impossible to endure.
At least, I remember reading that negative Gs are much less tolerated by the human body than the positive Gs, and that they can even be fatal!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
I limit myself to around -5, however many of the more practiced aerobatic pilots I know and fly with will pull twice that for short periods. I wouldn't say that it is comfortable though. In the case of the loop,that G loading only lasts about 3 seconds

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

(Former)Reserve Pilot Aircraft #2 of Gruppo 313
Pattuglia Acrobatica Virtuale
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTZ_Bonehead
01-15-2004, 09:38 AM
If you do an outside loop in a real aircraft you will suffer negative g for much more than 3 seconds. Unless of course your doing a really tight one LOL.

You also get red dots in your eyes where the little bloodvesels burst http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Still thats better than getting bum grapes form pulling sustained high + G

Dedicated gaming www.battle-fields.com (http://www.battle-fields.com) home of UK-DEDICATED, why not make it your home too?
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Mackane_
01-15-2004, 10:07 AM
...Tried it in the "JUG"...it worked but I was seein' red most of the time.

Here's the track. http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/ol.trk

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg
(save as "all files" or it will show up as "text")

SlickStick
01-15-2004, 10:17 AM
I'm not sure of all the planes that can do it in the game, as opposed to real life, but the BI-1 is by far the easiest.

Just get that baby up about 5K so you have some room and get your speed going over 800 or so. After you pass a certain speed, the nose will start wanting to drive into the ground, no matter what you do.

Just trim full nose down and start doing inverted loops. The physics almost do it for you at a certain speed in the BI-1.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

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TX-EcoDragon
01-15-2004, 10:33 AM
&lt;&lt;Originally posted by AirBot:
Are you a real pilot?&gt;

Yes

&lt;&lt;I always thought such high negative Gs are impossible to endure.&gt;&gt;
Even -1G is not comfy for most, but to an experienced aerobatic pilot much higher loadings are something they grow to tolerate and on some level enjoy, each to different degrees of course! ;-)

&lt;&lt;At least, I remember reading that negative Gs are much less tolerated by the human body than the positive Gs. . .&gt;&gt;

That is absolutelly correct, however the biggest factors in the max sustainable G loadings is the time that the force is acting, the pilots physiology, and their physical response to the loadings. Generally in aerobatics the forces may be very high, but for the most part they act only for fairly short periods of time. Different people have different physiology which is of course a factor, but with training, and proper responses to G onset unlimited level airshow pilots can pull in excess of +12 and -8 Gs.


&lt;&lt;BTZ_Bonehead wrote:
If you do an outside loop in a real aircraft you will suffer negative g for much more than 3 seconds. Unless of course your doing a really tight one LOL.&gt;&gt;

Well, I fly IAC Aerobatics, and yeah the loops better be tight, as the Box isn't all that big. I didn't say there is only -G for that time, but that the high loadings only act for approximately that duration. In piston engine aerobatic aircraft the initial push to vertical climb is usually the highest loading, with the final push from vertical dive to level inverted being nearly as high, but each push lasts only about 3-4 seconds. At the speeds of Jet aerobatics it is another story.

&lt;&lt;You also get red dots in your eyes where the little bloodvesels burst Still thats better than getting bum grapes form pulling sustained high + G&gt;&gt; I get them in my forehead where my soft helmet fits a litle to tight, but only after longer times of sustained negative G's.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

(Former)Reserve Pilot Aircraft #2 of Gruppo 313
Pattuglia Acrobatica Virtuale
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

BTZ_Bonehead
01-15-2004, 11:09 AM
Ouch burst bloodvesels around your 'soft helmet' thats got to hurt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Sorry I have a warped sense of humour http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So waht level do you compete at? Looking at the aircraft you use I would hope unlimited http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif otherwise the intermediates arent going to stand a chance!

Dedicated gaming www.battle-fields.com (http://www.battle-fields.com) home of UK-DEDICATED, why not make it your home too?
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Mackane_
01-15-2004, 12:39 PM
http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/bh.jpg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg

AirBot
01-15-2004, 01:11 PM
I see TX-EcoDragon, thanks for the explanation.
So basically what you're saying is that my reasoning wasn't wrong, just that that forces in an outside loop don't last very long?

So you're a real aerobatics pilot? Cool!
You'll have to take me up sometime! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
(Actually, don't worry - you won't be physically able to take me up even if you wanted to http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

TX-EcoDragon
01-15-2004, 01:30 PM
Ahh Jeez. . .you guys. . . just look in your cockpit. . err. . no I mean. . the place where your pilot resides in your aircraft and look at what he has on his head, that is also a . . .leather flying cap.

I am moving towards unlimited, though right now I am not quite up to polished practice. Most of my aerobatic flying is in a Super Decathlon, which I can almost afford to practicein! About 1/3 is in an Extra 300L, and the "Raven" as seen in my sig. The Raven is a custom design known as the Rebel 2300, it has the Edge wing, and rather similar performance, and is the airshow aircraft of my unlimited level coach Wayne Handley.

Edit: Here is an Edge flown by Kirby Chambliss
http://www.chamblissaerobatics.com/media/kirby1.wmv

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

(Former)Reserve Pilot Aircraft #2 of Gruppo 313
Pattuglia Acrobatica Virtuale
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg