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View Full Version : [Berserker Buffs Again] Not so bad compared to Shaman's kit



High-Horse
11-23-2017, 03:24 AM
Here's a list of things that might put Berserker on par with Shaman:

- Head Crusher and Splitter can be feinted during the charge, right up to before the strike, and can also be activated from a Back Dodge.

- Spin Chop can be soft feinted into a heavy or a light in any direction and can be hard-feinted.

- Heavies from neutral can be soft feinted into a stunning light in any direction and can start chains, but for less damage than a light from neutral.

- Top heavy finisher is unblockable.

- Close Quarters: Lights from neutral can be soft feinted into a GB (excluding the stunning light), and additionally any chained attack can be soft feinted by a dodge (not just starters).

- Zone can be feinted after the second strike and has hyperarmor.

- Lights with hyperarmor (chains and Head Splitter) are uninterruptible. When these attacks are blocked or successfully strike, you have access to a Quick Throw which is an unblockable and reactable punch to the chest for 10 dmg and wallsplat. Looks like the Zerker's forward throw.

- Slashing Rush input changed to back+heavy, can be feinted after the first or second strike, and if chained does not move backwards.

- All hard feints make the next attack within 3 seconds cost a little less stamina, and successful attacks refund some of the stamina cost if another attack follows immediately after, even if it is blocked or feinted.

A lot of these we may have talked about already, just wanted to see a thread about Berserkers on the front page again. Feel free to add more, especially if we haven't seen them before! If Shaman is a sign of things to come, let's make Zerker as insane as possible.

Maxime_Qc-
11-23-2017, 01:53 PM
What's the point or this thread ?

Showing the power or the zerker?

For myself i allready know his true power

And im worried about the "rework"

HEADCRUSHER and zerker deflect are both the best move of the game!

PDXGorechild
11-23-2017, 03:07 PM
Here's a list of things that might put Berserker on par with Shaman:

- Head Crusher and Splitter can be feinted during the charge, right up to before the strike, and can also be activated from a Back Dodge.

- Spin Chop can be soft feinted into a heavy or a light in any direction and can be hard-feinted.

- Heavies from neutral can be soft feinted into a stunning light in any direction and can start chains, but for less damage than a light from neutral.

- Top heavy finisher is unblockable.

- Close Quarters: Lights from neutral can be soft feinted into a GB (excluding the stunning light), and additionally any chained attack can be soft feinted by a dodge (not just starters).

- Zone can be feinted after the second strike and has hyperarmor.

- Lights with hyperarmor (chains and Head Splitter) are uninterruptible. When these attacks are blocked or successfully strike, you have access to a Quick Throw which is an unblockable and reactable punch to the chest for 10 dmg and wallsplat. Looks like the Zerker's forward throw.

- Slashing Rush input changed to back+heavy, can be feinted after the first or second strike, and if chained does not move backwards.

- All hard feints make the next attack within 3 seconds cost a little less stamina, and successful attacks refund some of the stamina cost if another attack follows immediately after, even if it is blocked or feinted.

A lot of these we may have talked about already, just wanted to see a thread about Berserkers on the front page again. Feel free to add more, especially if we haven't seen them before! If Shaman is a sign of things to come, let's make Zerker as insane as possible.

~ Head splitter is instantaneous so I don't see how this would be feintable, unless he stops mid air. Head crusher only charges if there is considerable distance between the Berserker and his enemy so in this instance I can see that it would be beneficial to be able to feint it.

~ You'd have to be very fast to hard feint a spin chop. This move is essentially a punish for unblockables and works fairly well for that. Not sure anything needs to be done to this move per se but giving us other ways to add it into a mix up would be good. Personally I think it could just do with being sped up ever so slightly and give us the ability to use it to soft feint heavies in dance of the paired blades.

~ Heavies from neutral being soft-feintable into a light is a good idea. Not sure about the stunning element of it though, seems over the top.

~ Top heavy being unblockable makes sense to me. It's one of the hardest hitting, slowest moves in the game so might as well be. If it was unblockable however, it should only trigger "unblockable" at the end of a chain and maybe cost more stamina.

~ The close quarters idea awesome, probably my favourite. Would definitely like to see all attacks in dance of the paired blades soft-feintable.

~ The input of slashing rush needs changing, absolutely. I don't think this attack should be feint-able though, especially on top of all these other ideas. Berserker needs one predictable attack at least. :p

~ So you're suggesting that lights in the dance of the paired blades are also uninterruptable? Presuming you start your chains with a light like most Zerkers, that means the lights and heavies will have hyper armour, meaning you'd essentially have an entirely uninterruptable infinite chain. This would be insanely overpowered against other Assassins, whom the Berserker already enjoys his only easy(ish) matches against.

~ The punch idea is good though. Somi came up with a good thread on this not long ago. I think we decided in the end that a melee attack that can be initiated after a dodge would be ideal. Either way Berserker needs an opener for sure.

~ Hard feints making the next attack use less stamina is a nice idea. Zerk has one of the biggest stamina pools in the game but burns through it ridiculously quick due to his reliance on feints. Either this or bring back the stamina reduction on dance of the paired blades.

The thing with the Berserker cult is that we don't want a cheesy, easy win class. Berserker is a class that despite being bottom tier, has a huge skill cap and you get as much out of him as you put in, to a point. He requires maximal effort and has a weird, slippery play style that i've grown to love. No other class in this game or any other has engaged me as much as him, but he is definitely in need of help.

@Ubi, please keep him a hard to play, tricksy feint master and don't pump him full of steroids and make him a Shaman.




What's the point or this thread ?

Showing the power or the zerker?

For myself i allready know his true power

And im worried about the "rework"

HEADCRUSHER and zerker deflect are both the best move of the game!

Headcrusher the best move in the game? What planet are you from? I literally only ever use it against players who aren't paying attention to me or it's an easy parry for my them.. Our Deflect is good yes, but not as good as a parry which all classes can do and is equal in difficulty to pull off.

Maxime_Qc-
11-23-2017, 08:59 PM
Headcdusher is cancelable To spin attack or jump heavy or light that can chain to everything else too...or cancelable To bait for parry/deflect (and people seem To bite To this more than everything else.. or landed very super strong damage !

Push To wall headcrusher...

Parry light step back side light To HEADCRUSHER while giving forward = guarantee HEADCRUSHER

Guardbreak out of stam opponent push To ground spin attack + headcrusher = 1hit kill

Parry out of stam opponent headcrusher. ..

bmason1000
11-24-2017, 06:03 AM
~ Head splitter is instantaneous so I don't see how this would be feintable, unless he stops mid air. Head crusher only charges if there is considerable distance between the Berserker and his enemy so in this instance I can see that it would be beneficial to be able to feint it.

~ You'd have to be very fast to hard feint a spin chop. This move is essentially a punish for unblockables and works fairly well for that. Not sure anything needs to be done to this move per se but giving us other ways to add it into a mix up would be good. Personally I think it could just do with being sped up ever so slightly and give us the ability to use it to soft feint heavies in dance of the paired blades.

~ Heavies from neutral being soft-feintable into a light is a good idea. Not sure about the stunning element of it though, seems over the top.

~ Top heavy being unblockable makes sense to me. It's one of the hardest hitting, slowest moves in the game so might as well be. If it was unblockable however, it should only trigger "unblockable" at the end of a chain and maybe cost more stamina.

~ The close quarters idea awesome, probably my favourite. Would definitely like to see all attacks in dance of the paired blades soft-feintable.

~ The input of slashing rush needs changing, absolutely. I don't think this attack should be feint-able though, especially on top of all these other ideas. Berserker needs one predictable attack at least. :p

~ So you're suggesting that lights in the dance of the paired blades are also uninterruptable? Presuming you start your chains with a light like most Zerkers, that means the lights and heavies will have hyper armour, meaning you'd essentially have an entirely uninterruptable infinite chain. This would be insanely overpowered against other Assassins, whom the Berserker already enjoys his only easy(ish) matches against.

~ The punch idea is good though. Somi came up with a good thread on this not long ago. I think we decided in the end that a melee attack that can be initiated after a dodge would be ideal. Either way Berserker needs an opener for sure.

~ Hard feints making the next attack use less stamina is a nice idea. Zerk has one of the biggest stamina pools in the game but burns through it ridiculously quick due to his reliance on feints. Either this or bring back the stamina reduction on dance of the paired blades.

The thing with the Berserker cult is that we don't want a cheesy, easy win class. Berserker is a class that despite being bottom tier, has a huge skill cap and you get as much out of him as you put in, to a point. He requires maximal effort and has a weird, slippery play style that i've grown to love. No other class in this game or any other has engaged me as much as him, but he is definitely in need of help.

@Ubi, please keep him a hard to play, tricksy feint master and don't pump him full of steroids and make him a Shaman.





Headcrusher the best move in the game? What planet are you from? I literally only ever use it against players who aren't paying attention to me or it's an easy parry for my them.. Our Deflect is good yes, but not as good as a parry which all classes can do and is equal in difficulty to pull off.
i think you nailed it, bud. I usually have a whollle lot to say in these threads but...i think you took care of it haha.
My only disagreement is the UB chain finish top heavy. Especially if these other ideas were implemented. That attack is situational and absolutely fantastic in its situations just as it is. Adding UB status to it will make your enemy farrr too aware of what's going on. If you think you have a hard time landing it now, wait until its unblockable and everyone is hyper vigilant for it. Use it for trades just like you're supposed to, when they can't block anyway. If that attack were unblockable, the community would be calling for zerk nerfs in a heartbeat.

Other than that though i applaud you, seriously. Spot on. Wheres s0mi, we need the seal of approval.

bmason1000
11-24-2017, 06:05 AM
Headcdusher is cancelable To spin attack or jump heavy or light that can chain to everything else too...or cancelable To bait for parry/deflect (and people seem To bite To this more than everything else.. or landed very super strong damage !

Push To wall headcrusher...

Parry light step back side light To HEADCRUSHER while giving forward = guarantee HEADCRUSHER

Guardbreak out of stam opponent push To ground spin attack + headcrusher = 1hit kill

Parry out of stam opponent headcrusher. .. That's not headcrusher. You're talking about the regular top heavy. Head crusher is the forward dash heavy where you leap in the air and bring both axes down.

PDXGorechild
11-24-2017, 09:46 AM
i think you nailed it, bud. I usually have a whollle lot to say in these threads but...i think you took care of it haha.
My only disagreement is the UB chain finish top heavy. Especially if these other ideas were implemented. That attack is situational and absolutely fantastic in its situations just as it is. Adding UB status to it will make your enemy farrr too aware of what's going on. If you think you have a hard time landing it now, wait until its unblockable and everyone is hyper vigilant for it. Use it for trades just like you're supposed to, when they can't block anyway. If that attack were unblockable, the community would be calling for zerk nerfs in a heartbeat.

Other than that though i applaud you, seriously. Spot on. Wheres s0mi, we need the seal of approval.

Thanks man! Trying to represent the opinions of most of us rare, whiney Berserker mains on here ;)

With hindsight you might be right about top heavy finisher being unblockable. I catch a lot of people off guard with it when i'm swinging wildly at thin air, baiting them into striking and then going for a spin chop > top heavy. They seem to notice it coming less amid a load of flailing arms. I suppose that would be a less viable tactic if it lit me up orange. People would definitely get salty about it too. :rolleyes: We do need that punch though!

I haven't seen or heard from Somi in a month or two... don't think he's been on PSN either. Perhaps he's gone to Valhalla?

and Maxime_Qc-.. You are referring to the top heavy. The combo finisher top heavy is high damage yes, but again one of the slowest moves in the game. Done from neutral it's good damage but not "very good super strong damage".

Push To wall headcrusher... Most classes get high damage out of wallsplat.

Parry light step back side light To HEADCRUSHER while giving forward = guarantee HEADCRUSHER. - I'm not sure but I think parry light allows you a free top heavy if you initiate it immediately. No time if you spin chop too, I dont think. May be wrong here but don't think so. So it's from neutral and good damage but not terrifying.

Guardbreak out of stam opponent push To ground spin attack + headcrusher = 1hit kill. -- Yeah if you've already taken at least half of your opponents health off..

Parry out of stam opponent headcrusher. .. --- You can still parry while out of stam so this is asking to be parried yourself.

Heaven forbid a class with no melee attacks, no unblockables, no stuns, no throws, no grabs, a low health pool and generally slow attacks be allowed to have a move that actually does some decent damage...

High-Horse
11-24-2017, 11:12 AM
Well, this thread was a bit of a joke, suggesting that these changes would bring Berserker up to the level of options Shaman has. If every hero was this complete and rounded out, maybe the game would be less frustrating for some players?

I've been practicing against a lvl3 Shaman bot and fighting a lot in duels recently. They're not so bad except that pounce tends to do 90 degree turns to catch what I thought was a successful dodge attempt. I feel like I do all this fancy footwork to avoid getting a bleed and pounced, but one mistake means 2 bars of health on the bite alone. If they keep shaman at that same level, the ideas in the OP, which are not all entirely mine, aren't really that bad. It's just every other hero would need the same treatment.

PDXGorechild
11-24-2017, 01:26 PM
I got that it was a joke ;)

Yes compared to Shaman it wouldn't be that overpowered. However, I don't think every class should be taken up to her level. Currently she's over the top and needs toning down, and THEN every class needs bringing up to her level.

bmason1000
11-24-2017, 07:54 PM
I got that it was a joke ;)

Yes compared to Shaman it wouldn't be that overpowered. However, I don't think every class should be taken up to her level. Currently she's over the top and needs toning down, and THEN every class needs bringing up to her level.Add the punch with all its traits we've discussed previously, earlier start up of HA on head slice/chop, uninterrupted lights in the chain. Done. Berserker = good.

High-Horse
11-24-2017, 09:06 PM
Add the punch with all its traits we've discussed previously, earlier start up of HA on head slice/chop, uninterrupted lights in the chain. Done. Berserker = good.

Agreed, but how cool would it be for zerker to have a harassing stun? It's basically what Shaman does, except instead of bonus bleed damage, it's a stun that doesn't guarantee any damage. Probably would never happen, but I'm super envious of that Shaman moveset.

PDXGorechild
11-27-2017, 10:37 AM
Agreed, but how cool would it be for zerker to have a harassing stun? It's basically what Shaman does, except instead of bonus bleed damage, it's a stun that doesn't guarantee any damage. Probably would never happen, but I'm super envious of that Shaman moveset.

I'm envious of Shaman's and Aramashu's. As a Berserker main, I feel like both the classes have aspects of my class but do it all better! The infinite combo with Aramashu is basically dance of the paired blades but much quicker. The Shaman uses an axe, even looks like a Berserker and has the mix-up potential but with a load of added leaps, unblockables and bleed damage.

We got left behind, again..

Those reworks better be good and they'd better be coming soon, Ubi.