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Justicator
11-20-2017, 12:22 AM
So I just played 20 dominion matches, and any time there was a shaman on the enemy team, we lost. There was this one match that we easily won, and the players all stayed for the next game. One of the opponents picked a Shaman. Guess who won the next match.

I discovered an easy solution to my woes. From now on, every time there is a Shaman on the enemy team, just leave the game with my group. I advise everyone to start doing this; the results will be two-fold;

1. less salt from loosing to a better hero [while the player controlling him is a worse player than you, but apparently that matters little when playing the Shaman]

2. Give the players playing the shaman a strong message: we will not play against broken characters. Until UBI re balances her, we will regulate games at our own leisure. For truly, no one can force you to play against her. You can not ban someone for picking a shaman, it is their choice and everyone has the right to it. But no one can also force you to play games against those people, you have a grace period for the first 30ish seconds; use it.

THIS IS A CALL TO ALL MY FELLOW GAMERS SICK OF THE NONSENSE THAT SHE IS RIGHT NOW!

SAY NO TO SHAMANS!

Alustar.
11-20-2017, 11:47 AM
You know, three are legitimate problems in this world like racism, hungry, to name a child and you choose to focus your energy on this?

When did this become a trend that players think that buying s game gives them some diving force as to the direction it takes. Also is worth noting, your satisfaction is not guaranteed.
I miss the days when people played games before complaining about them, when forums were populated more by discussing and theory rather than this **** storm of scrubs who to force developers to change their products around to fit the whiney and vocal player base, rather than adapt and get better

CandleInTheDark
11-20-2017, 12:25 PM
Firstly, you do know this isn't going to work long term or on a large scale, right? Speaking as someone who has been on the forum long enough to see this kind of post on the Centurion.

Secondly that is an awful big generalisation you are making there, that only bad players are using her. I can only speak for myself, but as soon as I knew the season 3 leaks were accurate, I wanted to try the Shaman to see how they had worked in an axe and a sword. She isn't my main, she isn't going to be my main but I like the kit, I am hoping that others get kits like this in the reworks and I want to be part of getting it to the right level.

Which leads me onto my third point, it is those of us who play the higher tier characters and care for the health of the game that likely are the most help to the devs, because we can see what feels wrong from our side of the screen and we aren't sending the devs panicked tweets to make them think the sky is falling or veiled threats to not play their game. As I have also been on these forums long enough to see, the best balancing advice generally comes from those who best understand the character because they play them and are honest enough to know what is wrong in how they play. Outside of any feedback from people who play the character or have bothered to try to figure out how to beat it against bots or other players, the devs also have data which shows them how often moves are used, I would assume how often they are countered and how they are having an impact on the game, data that in this post, you are trying to deny them. So in many ways,not only have you insulted anyone in the player base who is good enough they could have beaten you whatever character they played, and I will bet there are at least some among those you played and got salty enough to post this, it is actually not helping your stated cause in getting the devs to fix the character.

Jarl.Felix
11-20-2017, 12:34 PM
You know, three are legitimate problems in this world like racism, hungry, to name a child and you choose to focus your energy on this?

When did this become a trend that players think that buying s game gives them some diving force as to the direction it takes. Also is worth noting, your satisfaction is not guaranteed.
I miss the days when people played games before complaining about them, when forums were populated more by discussing and theory rather than this **** storm of scrubs who to force developers to change their products around to fit the whiney and vocal player base, rather than adapt and get better

But how will they "adapt and get better" if you don't point them the problems ? You sound delusional. How will they know the flaws of the game if the playerbase "discuss theories" ?

The more autosuficient the devs, the more average the game. All great games comes from criticism. And yes, the players are most important ... or should be. Take this : Even EA renounced loot boxes for StarWars 2 after huge backlash from the fanbase. And remember, It's EA not Ubicrap..

Justicator
11-20-2017, 12:44 PM
Wow alustar... A few questions for you then; why do you focus your energy on replying to form posts such as these when there are legitimate problems in this world like racism, hungriness [hungry lol, to name a child WHAT THE ACTUAL???] etc?

When did it become a trend to bash anyone that feels differently than you about a product they bought? Or better yet, when the 'anyone who thinks differently than you' is actually the majority of players?

Also is worth noting, your satisfaction is not guaranteed.
What? I love playing this game and I have no qualms loosing to a better player; in fact i strongly believe that to become better in this game, the best way is to play against stronger opponents and adapt. You can't adapt to the Shaman because it's not about the player, but the hero.

I miss the days when people played games before complaining about them, when forums were populated more by discussing and theory rather than this **** storm of scrubs who to force developers to change their products around to fit the whiney and vocal player base, rather than adapt and get better
Wow, where to begin with this one. I also miss the days when people paid for finished products that were bug-free, glitch-free and had working multiplayer components that didn't crash all the time. I also miss the days when forums were populated by people willing to discuss their view points and not instantly call others insulting names, but hey, that time is long past, isn't it alustar?

Oh and most of all, I miss the days when people had at least a half-working brain to properly call out something as overpowered when it is and not make up terms ['overtuned' MY GOD LOL, it cracks me every time] to protect an imbalanced hero simply because they love abusing it? Everyone pushing the overtuned agenda, saying that she needs only a few number reworks, increased recovery etc. I agree with you people. I completely do. But these things, that are so easily balanced, are the same things that give Shaman an unfair advantage and are the same reason why a lot of people are becoming more and more salty. And it is these things that make her overpowered ATM.

After i decided to quit every game having a Shaman while playing yesterday, i had a blast with my group of players. We won some games, we lost a few, and we had fun. There was no saltiness, not bitterness. Just us having fun, the reason why we bought the game.

Why don't you focus your attention on world peace, solving the hunger problem and the poverty of the majority of people alustar, and leave these 'insignificant' issues to the players that wish for this game to become better, and while waiting for them to become better, find a way to still have fun playing it. Comments such as yours and insulting the larger player base as a whole brings nothing to the table and is unnecessary. You disagree with me, fine. This post was not meant for people like you, the kind that currently enjoys the abuse that is the Shaman.

CandleInTheDark
11-20-2017, 12:47 PM
Comments such as yours and insulting the larger player base as a whole brings nothing to the table and is unnecessary.

Isn't that exactly what you did with this line though? (emphasis mine) - less salt from loosing to a better hero [while the player controlling him is a worse player than you, but apparently that matters little when playing the Shaman] I mean you have basically said that anyone who beats you with a Shaman did so only because of the character, I would be willing to bet some of those would have beaten you with their more regular characters..

Justicator
11-20-2017, 12:57 PM
CandleInTheDark you are absolutely right. Man, your posts are really a delight to read. Wish all others were as sound and constructive as you.

Yes, your statement, as a general is good and on point. I agree with all of it, but i do have two issues with all of this:
1. I fear that the amount of honest players using the Shaman to give constructive feedback on her and not abuse the broken character isn't that high. A lot of players just want to keep their precious new main OP so they can 'rekt' others.
2. I sincerely fear that it will take a long time to balance these 'overtuned' aspects of the character. Most people bashing on the Shaman here are probably afraid of another centurion fiasco and that is why the outcry is so strong. I think it was you that stated that this is the reason that you do not have much sympathy for this, because people are bashing without trying to learn and counter here. I can't speak for others, but I can for myself. I spend the first few days after the season had started playing against level 3 Shaman bots and my friends with season passes in private games trying to learn what her moves are and how to counter her. What I saw in that character was simply too much of strengths and adaptability and almost no weakness. Playing dominion over these past few days has only confirmed this. In my viewpoint, especially when taking the rest of the cast into consideration, the Shaman was blatantly OP. And this is not only me, but my friends that decided to main her for the time being also agree on everything I said and think that she needs serious reworking right now. Not after a two or three month period of collecting data but right now.

Alustar.
11-20-2017, 12:58 PM
People said the exact same thing about centurion when he was released. After practice I didn't have problems with them. Once you overcome the knee jerk reaction and actually learn to adapt, then you won't have issues.
You want it both ways, you want to say you are fine with being beat, but only if it's with heroes you have experience with, otherwise the opposing player didn't beat you for any reason other than a character?
Ding try and deflect the topic onto me, I'm not the one trying to stage a halfassed protest because I got beat by a shaman a couple of times.
Also, it's the last act of a desperate forum troll to try and point out typos, especially when he can't English properly himself. (It's hunger)

Justicator
11-20-2017, 01:02 PM
In the sentence: while the player controlling him is a worse player than you, but apparently that matters little when playing the Shaman. I did not mean every player playing the Shaman. Obviously there are better players than me that are currently also playing the Shaman. What I meant by that is that the hero is so strong that, when facing a Shaman with someone from the original cast, becomes less about player skill and more about the hero concepts and mechanics that are blatantly in favor of the Shaman.

If I insulted anyone by that sentence, I apologize. That was not my intention.

Alustar.
11-20-2017, 01:08 PM
The hero has been live for all of 7 days. You have had over 6 months(assuming you started playing closer to launch) give or take, to learn and read the prior roster. You can't expect something to drop and it not effect your gameplay whatsoever.

SangLong524
11-20-2017, 01:12 PM
So I just played 20 dominion matches, and any time there was a shaman on the enemy team, we lost. There was this one match that we easily won, and the players all stayed for the next game. One of the opponents picked a Shaman. Guess who won the next match.

I discovered an easy solution to my woes. From now on, every time there is a Shaman on the enemy team, just leave the game with my group. I advise everyone to start doing this; the results will be two-fold;

1. less salt from loosing to a better hero [while the player controlling him is a worse player than you, but apparently that matters little when playing the Shaman]

2. Give the players playing the shaman a strong message: we will not play against broken characters. Until UBI re balances her, we will regulate games at our own leisure. For truly, no one can force you to play against her. You can not ban someone for picking a shaman, it is their choice and everyone has the right to it. But no one can also force you to play games against those people, you have a grace period for the first 30ish seconds; use it.

THIS IS A CALL TO ALL MY FELLOW GAMERS SICK OF THE NONSENSE THAT SHE IS RIGHT NOW!

SAY NO TO SHAMANS!

I, a player, say NO to this nonsense.
I, a player, call this a salty post. GTFU!
I, a player, am out of here!

Justicator
11-20-2017, 01:14 PM
alustar, If you do not see how the centurion is, even to this day, mechanically completely broken and even gimped, forced to play as a turtle, than I am really done with you. The problem people had with him is that he had, and still has, one of the worst parry punishes in the game. He is a cut-scene hero, plain and simple. His design is horrendous. And people abused the living hell out of it. Fortunately, Shaman is much better designed, but still OP in the sense that in her current state she can be far more dangerous than the centurion ever whats.

Must I really spell out the parallel between the centurion and the Shaman to you? Really? OK.

No matter how good you played, one mistake against the centurion would end up in a disaster for you. If you are near a wall, it was gg. THAT is BS and a completely bad design and people were rightfully outraged. And everyone knows that the centurion wasn't nerfed because he was Roman's favorite right? Well, not really. His design choice was so terrible that balancing that character was nightmare. But people just assumed it was because of Roman and became even more salty.
The shaman, in its current state, is similar to the centurion in the way that she has way to many options and versatility when compared to the OG cast, that when fighting her you are fighting an uphill battle where a single mistake [that is bound to happen with her soft feints, fainting her pounce and getting a gb or whatever else she has going on for her] will end up as a complete disaster. And even if you do go offensive [I love playing offensively, i hate the bloody turtle meta] as I do when facing her, guess what? Deflect baby, guess who's bleeding again?

If you think that my posts are the works of a Troll, then please, don't involve yourself further. I'd mush rather discuss things with CandleInTheDark or knight_raime, those guys are at least constructive and an asset to this community.

David_gorda
11-20-2017, 01:21 PM
Centurion was op at launch, the wallsplat cutscene and parry punish was insane. Centurion has won 1v1 tournament( bandana) only a complete clueless noob dont understand that. Now the shaman is released which is even more op then centurion was at launch and thats a his problem.

Justicator
11-20-2017, 01:22 PM
Take from this posts what you will. I can't force anyone to abandon games with Shamans. As candle said, for the devs to properly re balance the character, they will need data. And that is a good argument. As for me, I believe that there is no need to wait for data when some things are blatantly obvious concerning the Shaman. I do however, anticipate, with mild enthusiasm, her re-balance and the re-balance of the core cast. I believe FH is going in the right direction. Weather you decide to stick and play matches with Shamans or just leave, I wish you all good luck and a good time.

Alustar.
11-20-2017, 01:30 PM
About the only thing you said in that entire post that wasn't an outright hyperbole was about Candle and Raime, everything else is pure opinion based rants. I personally had trouble with centurion for all of 2weeks.
Shaman is only labeled as OP because noob gamers lose their minds when things change that adversely effect their performance. Then the lemming mentality sets in and the parrots start echoing everything they heard on YouTube.

Also clever jab at my integrity I suppose? I'd love to see how this thread is helpful to the community, if that's really your concern, nothing gets learned through these angsty posts.

ChampionRuby50g
11-20-2017, 02:13 PM
I strongly oppose you leaving games, for the reason that a person is playing Shaman in it. There are so many game breaking bugs that come with players rage quitting, from the entire game crashing, entire new host with horrible connection that causes resynchs every few seconds, horrible lag, session drops and that's just to name a few. If you are solo, you could also actively be ruining 7 other people's experience. What gives you that right?

I know that in a working game this wouldn't happen, but you aren't playing a working game. To knowingly ruin other people's gaming experience just because you don't like what you are up against, a mere week after the heros are released and not even to the general playing community, is incredibly low.

Alustar.
11-20-2017, 02:19 PM
You guys will find any reason that you lost other than it being your fault

David_gorda
11-20-2017, 02:42 PM
Lol funny kids that try defend their op Class in post after post haha

Sneaky-Patches
11-20-2017, 03:13 PM
Well, Iíve never complained about a hero since launch, and have a high kd, so here goes...

Both these heroes, imo, are gamebreaking rubbish on console.

Aramusha is just complete filth, infinite unreactable light spam, lights connecting and GUARANTEEING more lights. 2 of them can just stunlock you with infinite spam and you canít even raise your guard because you are in an infinite stagger state. There is no blocking, dodging, deflecting anything you can do. Theres nowhere to attempt a GB even if you dodge attacks you are immediately met with more brain dead spam. This class is the noobiest monstrosity and basically requires not effort to play. Just straight up a terribly designed character. It actually bypassed the combat system of the game entirely. And ultra easy mode block stance where you can the pommel stun or wallsplat into either an unreactable chain or cop 1-2 heavies, forget about parrying or deflecting.

Shaman COULD be balanced, but is currently OP as Hell. Literally has the best part of every single hero in the game and then heaps more, no weaknesses at all. Itís straight up impossible to react to the leaping omnidirectional heavy, her dodge heavies are lightning fast extremely strong and have no recovery and can follow up with a bleed light (just in case you thought you could dodge it and punish/gb her) they recover so fast that using a riptide strike with orochi preemptively countering her side heavies yet she can finish and immediately parry your attack, feintable 400ms unblockable from neutral with guaranteed damage (are you people defending her here high!?) that knocks you far and can wallsplat, shinobis BEST part of his kit was a 600ms unblockable that needs to be accessed by doubledashing, but that was a huge problem for many of you, but not this apparently!? Blazingly quick lights AND gets shinobis double tap upon hit in any direction (cop that orochi) Lightning fast softfeints into bleed stabs from any direction or softfeint into a gb. Unbelievably easy to apply bleed in so many different ways, can basically have shinobis BEST tier 4 feat active (that he gets for like two minutes at the end of a match, or doesnít if your not above average) and heal all the time straight out of the gate (because f you I dunno). Can remove two bars of health with a feintable lightning fast pounce which can be done infinitely upon missing and heals, and most the time she overshoots so far you canít punish her at all even with shinobis dodge kick and orochis dodgelight just whiff. Her right side unblockable is BS on console, dodge it and youíll most likely eat a light especially if it is feinted, go to parry (and even cancel heavy if it was a feint) and she can hit you with a light or bleed faster than you can recover. Throw distance of a quarter back in ALL directions. And heaps more... Oh the best feats in the game bar none, stealth, traps, damage reduction, the vanguards second wind healing feat (f it why not) or a special bleed axe so she can basically OHK you while you recover from the axe to the face, fire flask or a bunch of other excellent tier 4 feats.


Both of these heroes are entirely broken in 4v4 modes. Aramisha can just infinitely spam and stunlocked you to death and bypasses the entire combat system of the game. Shamans can just keep bashing you around, as one applies bleed and thatís it game over...

I have not complained about cent, shinobi, glad, highlander (other than his second Celtic curse hit seemed to constantly go through guard which I gave video evidence for, but is a weaker hero I know) or any other heroes.
But these heroes are so incredibly unfun to fight and are broken OP for different reasons (aramusha may not be on PC). Nooby light spam crutch aramusha, and 15heroes in 1 but better and faster shaman.

Edit: I canít even put into words how ****ing broken these heroes are. Just played a game against a group I regularly see, who I always stomp no matter what hero Iím playing. They wiped our whole team like 40-0. Aramusha is just the most garbage thing I have ever seen in a game in my life and is 100% the most broken BS. Orochis fast deflect will fking TRADE with aramusha spam.

Fairemont
11-20-2017, 03:44 PM
She ain't that tough.

Once you get her tempo down (since she has weird timing on her attacks) and figure out her move-set she has really nothing that cannot be blocked/parried/dodged in some form. I've only met one or two shaman so far that I've considered really dangerous in a match and that's because they were extremely good players using her massive kit of attacks and moves to get the better of me since i was mostly unfamiliar with them.

She is intimidating, and she is supposed to be, but far from unbeatable.

SenBotsu893
11-20-2017, 10:11 PM
She ain't that tough.

Once you get her tempo down (since she has weird timing on her attacks) and figure out her move-set she has really nothing that cannot be blocked/parried/dodged in some form. I've only met one or two shaman so far that I've considered really dangerous in a match and that's because they were extremely good players using her massive kit of attacks and moves to get the better of me since i was mostly unfamiliar with them.

She is intimidating, and she is supposed to be, but far from unbeatable.

heeeey that sounds exactly what centurion mains said at the start of season 2: "centurion is really not strong hurr durr everything can be parried/dodged".

that doesnt mean that her kit is far superior to every other character in the game.

Fairemont
11-20-2017, 10:14 PM
Haven't played centurion and played shaman once so far. She is tough, has a great, versatile kit, but is probably not as bad as Centurion pre-wall splat Nerf. She doesn't have anything guarantees the loss of at least 3/4 of your health on one mistake.

CandleInTheDark
11-20-2017, 11:04 PM
heeeey that sounds exactly what centurion mains said at the start of season 2: "centurion is really not strong hurr durr everything can be parried/dodged".

that doesnt mean that her kit is far superior to every other character in the game.

There are things that could do with looking at, but there is nothing in the kit itself that is so essential to either 1v1 or 4v4 that she can't be fixed in one without breaking her in the other which was the problem Centurion had. This is why a few people have been using the term overtuned, not as a means of saying oh she isn't that overpowered but more that the problem she has is in the numbers, not in something like infinite wallsplat.

And yes she has a lot of variety and utility in her kit, if I didn't know that there were reworks coming, I would have a problem with that. The reason I don't for now is that we know reworks are coming and we know that there are three low to low-medium tier characters that are first in line for them. So for now I am not looking at the kit as a problem but as a possibility towards what they are planning for the OG characters.

Forsakin1
11-21-2017, 03:22 AM
how about we stop calling for the dismantle of new heroes and the rebuild of the old I know that takes time motion cap and all the graphic art that goes with but if they stop that to go appease the guy who wants that nerfed and the girl who wants that buffed they might be able to do something. or they just nerf nerf nerf till the reworks come out and now what once was op and got nerf is now utter garbage and can't keep up with the old 2.0 versions of the originals.

Alustar.
11-21-2017, 03:51 AM
how about we stop calling for the dismantle of new heroes and the rebuild of the old I know that takes time motion cap and all the graphic art that goes with but if they stop that to go appease the guy who wants that nerfed and the girl who wants that buffed they might be able to do something. or they just nerf nerf nerf till the reworks come out and now what once was op and got nerf is now utter garbage and can't keep up with the old 2.0 versions of the originals.

See, this guy gets it.

Herbstlicht
11-21-2017, 08:34 AM
Hm, I get it that patience might be rewarding. However. If those that like the low tier heroes are no longer with you guys when at some distant point those reworks really drop, it will hurt you too. There needs be balance everywhere and people voicing concerns in a rather outrageous way maybe just are really frustrated by sonething. If they just get labelled and regarded as wrong player numbers will only keep dwindling.

Besides, it's not just small issues. The difference in power levels between some characters is insane. Like so insane that people from completely different skill brackets can destroy way stronger players. And this extreme gap that only seems to widen the more powerful heroes get released with people still waiting for their reworks. Infinite wait isn't fun. But we did not get a single rework yet, almost 1 year into the game. So I'd say all those concerns are pretty valid.

As someone who loves this game this game I want it to stay healthy. However, nowadays even on my PS4 some game modes are dead. PvE only works with Dominion, Deathmatch wait times are increasingly high and even tribute takes thrice as long to queue for then Dominion. Though the patch just hit. This game desperately needs a larger player base. For this it needs be more beginner friendly. And this not only means better training modes but lesser gaps in power levels as well. New players won't buy the strongest hero first. They are more likely to go with what seems to bring the best flair for them.

CandleInTheDark
11-21-2017, 05:14 PM
Hm, I get it that patience might be rewarding. However. If those that like the low tier heroes are no longer with you guys when at some distant point those reworks really drop, it will hurt you too. There needs be balance everywhere and people voicing concerns in a rather outrageous way maybe just are really frustrated by sonething. If they just get labelled and regarded as wrong player numbers will only keep dwindling.

Besides, it's not just small issues. The difference in power levels between some characters is insane. Like so insane that people from completely different skill brackets can destroy way stronger players. And this extreme gap that only seems to widen the more powerful heroes get released with people still waiting for their reworks. Infinite wait isn't fun. But we did not get a single rework yet, almost 1 year into the game. So I'd say all those concerns are pretty valid.

As someone who loves this game this game I want it to stay healthy. However, nowadays even on my PS4 some game modes are dead. PvE only works with Dominion, Deathmatch wait times are increasingly high and even tribute takes thrice as long to queue for then Dominion. Though the patch just hit. This game desperately needs a larger player base. For this it needs be more beginner friendly. And this not only means better training modes but lesser gaps in power levels as well. New players won't buy the strongest hero first. They are more likely to go with what seems to bring the best flair for them.

The devs only recently went into the rework route, it was about two months ago they first said they are getting motion capture work done, their first means was to try changing numbers and balancing characters in that way, they have found that that doesn't work but it was a reasonable first try. I do agree that the reworks need to come quickly and they need to go from the lower tiers up, I would keep it running as they are with the first batch, the lowest tier in each faction.

And that is why they shouldn't be 'taking kit off' newer characters as people are calling for in my view, any time they are trying to figure out how to do this, how to balance the loss of what they are taking away (because no it isn't as easy as doing that in isolation) and testing this is time they are not spending integrating new moves into the kits of og characters,making sure that is balanced and testing those.

Work on the numbers that need toning down, yes, I have said from the start this is a thing that needs doing quickly, but outside of that, I think their top priority outside dedicated servers (and that is a different team in any case one would assume) is to push through the reworks.

kbvlcvfkhgc
11-21-2017, 05:46 PM
I just don't have the energy for it anymore, its Centurion all over again but on steroids and there's two of them, i actually find the Aramusha much more of a nightmare than the Shaman, they have this infinite light spam chain of death that i cant seem to react to or get out of, yea i'm a Sh!t player and i just need to dodge and git gud and all that but you know what i don't think i can be bothered anymore?

these S4 characters are sooo much better in every-way than the S1 character that i play and spent months ranking up, they have so many more options its not even the same game really, yea a reworks coming yada yada yada, how long's that going to take? look how long it took for them to address the Centurion with that comedy nerf they gave him that in no way whatsoever address the Cent Gank and only slightly nefred the wall splat,

there's no forgiveness at all, all these self-appointed experts who come on these forums shouting down anyone who voices concerns just don't get that, you know what most of us aren't top tier competitive players, we don't sit down for hours studying patterns and move-sets, how many ms this or that move takes, we just want a relatively level playing field and a bit of fun, is that what we have now? no you make one or two mistakes against these guys and your toast, like i say Centurion all over again and i really just don't have the energy for it anymore,

Alustar.
11-21-2017, 06:56 PM
Omfg. I don't know how the forum mods deal with this. It's like I'm in the middle of a bus full of wailing 5 year olds all crying about who's toy has more lazers!
I'd have driven this off the freeway before now.
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Alustar.
11-21-2017, 07:10 PM
?
there's no forgiveness at all, all these self-appointed experts who come on these forums shouting down anyone who voices concerns just don't get that, you know what most of us aren't top tier competitive players, we don't sit down for hours studying patterns and move-sets, how many ms this or that move takes, we just want a relatively level playing field and a bit of fun, is that what we have now? no you make one or two mistakes against these guys and your toast, like i say Centurion all over again and i really just don't have the energy for it anymore,

I'm not a pro, I've said multiple times(granted you might be new so here it is again) that I'm a **** player in most anything outside skirmish. I don't sit and read ms data on move sets. Nor so I spend hours a day practicing.

I get maybe an average of 2-3 hrs on a week day, weekends I'm free, so when I'm on I hit the training sun for a few minutes to warm my hands up.

So here is why I get upset: I've been playing since launch(not bragging, just a fact) and in that time I've seen every last character be called out by a section of the player base for being OP. Every one. I've seen heroes get nerfed into a crippling shell of what they used to be all because of whiney posts like these.
The second thing that irks me is that no one is asking for advice/tips/tricks. No one is asking to group and practice, no one's asking if there are any player made video tutorials to look up.
So to me in this SKILL based game, it seems like no one wants to work for the win, they just want it handed to them. Nerf anything that gives you problems so that the playing field is "level".

kbvlcvfkhgc
11-21-2017, 07:12 PM
Omfg. I don't know how the forum mods deal with this. It's like I'm in the middle of a bus full of wailing 5 year olds all crying about who's toy has more lazers!
I'd have driven this off the freeway before now.
-

you may want to sit down for this, a public forum exists for people to express their opinions, it is its very raison d'etre, and brace yourself, people may have a different opinion that you!!!!! can you grasp that?

you obviously seem to have a big problem with this concept as your constant sneering and dismissing of other peoples concerns imply so maybe this is not the place for you, i'm sure there is a Ubisoft fan club somewhere that you can join, or an "Its all fine, no problem here" club somewhere for you, if not why dot you set one up?

UbiInsulin
11-21-2017, 07:35 PM
Hey guys, I know you feel strongly about the Shaman, but please do not get personal in this thread. We want to see all your feedback, so let's avoid a situation where the thread needs to be closed.

David_gorda
11-21-2017, 07:36 PM
I'm not a pro, I've said multiple times(granted you might be new so here it is again) that I'm a **** player in most anything outside skirmish. I don't sit and read ms data on move sets. Nor so I spend hours a day practicing.

I get maybe an average of 2-3 hrs on a week day, weekends I'm free, so when I'm on I hit the training sun for a few minutes to warm my hands up.

So here is why I get upset: I've been playing since launch(not bragging, just a fact) and in that time I've seen every last character be called out by a section of the player base for being OP. Every one. I've seen heroes get nerfed into a crippling shell of what they used to be all because of whiney posts like these.
The second thing that irks me is that no one is asking for advice/tips/tricks. No one is asking to group and practice, no one's asking if there are any player made video tutorials to look up.
So to me in this SKILL based game, it seems like no one wants to work for the win, they just want it handed to them. Nerf anything that gives you problems so that the playing field is "level". the problems with noobs talking about balance is that they have No clue what is overpowered or not. If you dont Know how much damage the shaman has compared to other classes or how fast his attacks are how are going to make and educated Guess if the character is balanced or not?

Justicator
11-21-2017, 09:10 PM
Wow, didn't really expect that this would still be ongoing... Anyhow, I think that we can all by now agree that the shaman is OP, overtuned, imbalanced or whatever you want to call it. There is a definite issue with the character and everyone can see it. The thing that separates us, as a community, on this issue is that some of you guys think that some of the other guys are whiny, i-don't-want-to-learn-how-to-play-against-new-heroes and then go out with an im-such-a-superior-player-and-person-than-you-because-i-dont-whine attitude. While I do grant you that some players think that the Shaman is OP for the wrong reasons [her kit and versatility] this is, from reading the forums lately, not the fact with most players calling the Shaman OP. Most players, IMHO, believe, like me, that Shaman is OP not because of her versatility and design, which in its core is actually pretty awesome, but because of her excessive damage, speed, recovery times etc. Basically, her numbers need re-balancing; you think that is not OP, I, and many others, think that is OP because is gives her an unfair advantage... This is a classic case of tomayto, tomahto.

The purpose of the original post was to call out for players sick of the imbalances that the Shaman brings to games to show their disapproval by leaving games involving that particular hero. Granted, this was probably too early, as the hero hasn't been that long out and, as CandleInTheDark cleverly suggested, devs do need some feedback to re-balance her. And this would still be a valid point, if not for knight_raime who a few days ago posted a comprehensive post about the Shaman and Ronin, I mean Aramusha [seriously UBI, ARAMUSHA??? The heck name is that]. In that post he detailed a lot of stuff and with excellent examples and math gave constructive suggestions how to better re-balance these heroes. I suggest everyone interested in the further development of the re-balancing of the 2 new heroes reads that post, it is excellent. Seriously Ubisoft, you should give this man a job as he is clearly more than competent to be apart of your balance team. This may sound like i'm kissing someones *** here, but I'm not; who among us has taken the time to post such good posts going into actual mechanics and valid points on how to solve the various issues plaguing the new heroes? Yes most of us have cried out, acknowledging the problem, but we didn't post anything constructive, and most of the 'she's not OP but overtuned' part of the community [not all] only responded with hostility and no constructive posts as well.

UBISOFT, please, it is obvious that the Shaman in particular needs numbers reworking, and Aramusha bug fixing [or the reflex guard needs bug fixing, either way its most prominent when fighting as an assassin against Aramusha]. Do not respond with your typical 'we need more data'. EVERYONE agrees that she need number reworks, go and read knight_raime's post. He suggest 5 to 6 excellent re-balances for the Shaman there, with detailed reasoning why they should be implemented. Shaman should not be that difficult to re-balance. I personally look forward to fighting her when her numbers are toned down form overkill into normal.

But make no mistake, If this prolongs into the same crap you pulled with Cent, and takes you more than 4 or 5 months to implement much needed fixes for these characters, I call for a boycott on all games with Shamans [and Aramushas if the reflex bug isn't fixed by that time as well]. I hope to God I am wrong. I wish to be wrong here. I would like nothing more than for you to fix these heroes quickly, and that the community becomes united, without the unnecessary name talking and inability to understand and acknowledge in a normal manner other peoples view points.

Again, knight_raime made a comprehensive and good post about the needed changes to the two new season heroes. Listen to the guy. Implement something; fix the heroes and let this drama be over.

Forsakin1
11-21-2017, 11:18 PM
I will agree that some times heroes seem OP or UP but when you put all the parts together you get a whole a small weapon small hero should be fast she is no faster than pk no stronger than zerk half the list has moves same speed or faster musha is the fastest hero after the second hit (400ms) for it to be infinite is unbalanced but shamen just needs a few tweeks to range and tracking I can dismantle both with either rochi or shinobi, and my buddys who play one who uses almost every hero can do well most of the times, spam is spam no matter how you cook it. pk lights rochi top lights glad shinobi they all have spam turtle LB faint block shove run spear raider carry knee tap faint to UB faint to tap UB again spam is spam no nerf or buff will ever change that. exploits will be found by some one some where and then spread. not about getting gud kd is 1.43 not great but we do need a way to make matchmaking better lobbies with renown caps would make sense. that could help just think what would help has a whole not just help you..

DaLast_Samurai
11-22-2017, 01:07 AM
I got one very important thing to chime in about with this thread.

There is a serious education problem with our public schooling when 90% of the millennials think losing or lose is spelled with a second "o" like they are loosening a knot or something.

"The more you know"
NBC commercial jingle*

Alustar.
11-22-2017, 01:16 AM
I got one very important thing to chime in about with this thread.

There is a serious education problem with our public schooling when 90% of the millennials think losing or lose is spelled with a second "o" like they are loosening a knot or something.

"The more you know"
NBC commercial jingle*

Your brain meats turn me on...

Forsakin1
11-22-2017, 01:24 AM
lol I look at the future of the country and think "man I hope I'm dead before these kids are up for election" pompous rich kids and vap smoking yuppies, half the college kids don't know anything outside of what they read in cosmo or heard on keeping up with what the hell ever is on bravo, MLK Abe and all the men and women who pushed for a better America, damn, just damn, off topic sorry, or am I,

bob333e
11-23-2017, 05:36 AM
I have only picked up For Honor early November and henceforth wasn't around during the Centurion Period. However my game was running really smooth pre-patch 1.15, and with patch 1.15 introducing heavy lags and game-breaking FPS drops and crashes, playing particularly in Dominion against these new heroes (Aramusha and Shaman) proves way more annoying than they already are. I'm on PS4.

As others have mentioned above, Shaman and Aramusha are another level up on the ladder, yet they have not been completely tested and they've been kind of rushed outta development to the public with badly adjusted numbers and values that rendered them overpowered, Aramusha in 2-3 areas, Shaman in many areas. Granted, people need more time to adjust to these new heroes; but I'm not talking movesets, I'm talking attributed values and damage numbers to said movesets.

Though I sit here hoping for 1) a new patch that resolves these newly introduced game-breaking lags and crashes and severe connectivity issues, and 2) a slow and steady complete rework of the original roster, I'd definitely be okay if Ubisoft included adjustments on Aramusha and Shaman along the way.

The game in its current state is encouraging players, and particularly new players, to turn it into a spamfest, introducing two easier-to-use and safer-damage heroes that will ultimately lower the overall skill ceiling of For Honor if allowed to linger on in this state.

To top this off, in Dominion mostly, I've been witnessing many ragequitters abruptly leaving session mid-match because it didn't work out for them maining Shamans and Aramushas spamming attacks to victory, and they get ganked 2v1 and 3v1 by opposing team members who've had enough of their spammy BS. And some of these players maining Shamans and Aramushas have overall player rep 20+. This is not good.

I do not doubt Ubisoft's design direction in tackling Aramusha's and Shaman's concepts and bringing them to life; I do however, dislike how it was ultimately all badly executed, for reasons that might be running deeper than just rushing new characters out of development because of time constraints and whatnot.

But I dislike even more how my game now feels laggy, choppy, FPS-droppy, connection-cutty, and overall a major distasteful experience that forces me into PvAI in a more frequent manner.