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Rasputinking
11-17-2017, 01:50 PM
Shaman is not op

1.her pounce is easily dodge able. I dodge it all the time
2.her left unblock able always comes from the left and is slow (as soon as you see it don't try and parry it cos she can feint into something else. Just quickly mash light attack. As soon as this happens shaman becomes really really predictable.

Anarnam
11-17-2017, 02:49 PM
pounce is also easily feintable making it much MUCH worse than what pre-nerf shoulder bash of warden used to be. Requires tremendous time to feel the proper timing to dodge/attack/counter w/e. It requires some adjustments.

the unblockable is the same as with raider. I haven't noticed many shamans using it except when you lie on the ground.

Morpheus256
11-17-2017, 03:22 PM
Her pounce feint is useless. It tracks if you dodge before even seeing the UB indicator.

subdude1974
11-17-2017, 03:45 PM
She is grossly OP. She has many moves it isnít even funny. Plus the range of the pounce is insane. Sorry, but you are dead wrong. I she has so many weapons that unless you are an ultra turtle, any character that she plays is an underdog. That is a fact.

SenBotsu893
11-17-2017, 04:12 PM
first post and joinied in november. this is a spambot

IAmOddGirl
01-25-2018, 05:13 PM
I agree that Shaman is not overpowered. Powerful yes, but not unfair. Now there is that throw if ur bleeding that can for sure seem very unfair, but if you know it is going to happen then that right there is your counter to it. If you are bleeding just turtle up and get ready to dodge. Quite simple.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 05:32 PM
Shaman is OP and as unfair as it gets compared to the rest of the cast... how the actual hell do you defend this hero? Shes literally has the best everything in the game that isnt range, even that is hardly a drawback considering shes the fastest character in the game (Nobody should be faster than Shinobi, the only time its acceptable is with a speedboost feat/power up)...

She has the best CC, best Soft Feints and Mixups, best running speed, best lunge/gap closer, best throw distance, best survive-ability, AND The best HP an assassin can have.... HOW DO YOU DEFEND THIS HERO?

Knight_Raime
01-25-2018, 05:40 PM
yup.
but people will whine anyway.
tis nothing new.

HazelrahFirefly
01-25-2018, 05:45 PM
Shaman is not so bad in terms of combating her. They've nerfed her far too hard imo. The first nerf was necessary and then the tracking had to be adjusted still, but that's it. She's nowhere near as godly as Aramusha.

Shaman IS op in terms of her kit however. She can do what feels like a hundred things, meanwhile heroes like the Warden and Kensei get **** talked for spamming when they literally only have two things they can do.

Thankfully reworked are coming.

IAmOddGirl
01-25-2018, 05:54 PM
Shaman is OP and as unfair as it gets compared to the rest of the cast... how the actual hell do you defend this hero? Shes literally has the best everything in the game that isnt range, even that is hardly a drawback considering shes the fastest character in the game (Nobody should be faster than Shinobi, the only time its acceptable is with a speedboost feat/power up)...

She has the best CC, best Soft Feints and Mixups, best running speed, best lunge/gap closer, best throw distance, best survive-ability, AND The best HP an assassin can have.... HOW DO YOU DEFEND THIS HERO?

I defend it because as a Lawbringer main that loves the dueling playlist I have never..not even once..been brutalized by a Shaman. I was surprised at her kit for sure. I fell victim to her bite tackle the first round. I fell victim to her gap closer and heavy feint into bleed the second round. Then spent the next 3 full duels beating the absolute SH** out of her. Everytime I face one in duels I lose 1-2 round then come back and win. I just have to learn this player and his/her habits then it's a cake walk after that.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 06:04 PM
She's nowhere near as godly as Aramusha.

Maybe for you, but the majority of players will tell your Ara is right down there will HL and Kensei.


I defend it because as a Lawbringer main that loves the dueling playlist I have never..not even once..been brutalized by a Shaman. I was surprised at her kit for sure. I fell victim to her bite tackle the first round. I fell victim to her gap closer and heavy feint into bleed the second round. Then spent the next 3 full duels beating the absolute SH** out of her. Everytime I face one in duels I lose 1-2 round then come back and win. I just have to learn this player and his/her habits then it's a cake walk after that.

I guess im just bad and should quit playing at this point.. Literally over 50 hours in the game since S4 and I cant fight a shaman if my IRL depended on it. It takes me no longer than 4-5 fights to figure out someones moveset... Yet Ive fought shaman COUNTLESS TIMES and still dont understand her... Even the guide that tells you how to punish her is very unreliable because bish has no recoveries. (90% of the time when I parry her, I whiff the GB and she blocks the heavy when I parry her light)

PDXGorechild
01-25-2018, 06:15 PM
Lets look at the facts:

High damage, check.
Bleed attacks, check.
Unblockable attack, check.
Leap attacks, check.
Throw, check.
Bash, check.
Deflects, check.
Dodge attack, check.
Quick dodges, check.
Quick run speed, check.
Ability to self heal, check.
Combo's that can be chained seamlessly into one another, check.
Gimmicky leaping bite thing that disables you for the duration, check. (Almost certain death in a group fight)
Ability to soft feint heavy attacks into light bleed attack or guard break, check.

The only drawbacks she really has is her relatively low health pool being an Assassin, though not as low as some classes, her reflex guard and I think she lacks any hyper armoured or stamina draining attacks.

Past that she can do anything any other class can, excluding the range attack of Shinobi which is stupid anyway, as good or better than they can.

Lets compare that to one of the OG classes, using Berserker as an example as I know most about him:

High damage, check.
Hyper armour, check.
Dodge attack, check.
Quick dodges, check.
Deflect, check.
Leap attacks, check. (Mostly useless as too slow)
Ability to soft feint heavy into a dodge attack, check.

That's it.

I really like herShaman as a character, she' cool AF. Her kit is amazing and works, beautifully at times. But for all these advantages I feel she needs one major drawback, and the easiest way to do that in my mind is to make her a low HP class like Shinobi.

Take 20 hitpoints from the b!tch and see how she gets on.

IAmOddGirl
01-25-2018, 06:56 PM
Maybe for you, but the majority of players will tell your Ara is right down there will HL and Kensei.



I guess im just bad and should quit playing at this point.. Literally over 50 hours in the game since S4 and I cant fight a shaman if my IRL depended on it. It takes me no longer than 4-5 fights to figure out someones moveset... Yet Ive fought shaman COUNTLESS TIMES and still dont understand her... Even the guide that tells you how to punish her is very unreliable because bish has no recoveries. (90% of the time when I parry her, I whiff the GB and she blocks the heavy when I parry her light)

You just have to stay calm about the fights. There higher up in skill you get the gayer your opponents are going to be. I'm rep 81 overall and I might not be the best, but I'd say I'm decent. The people I match play these assassin characters very cheaply, but it's about winning. I want to win too so I play just as unfairly. I'll emote in respect before the fight begins, but higher up players really don't care about anything outside of that W. I don't get salty either. If I get ledged I asked for it by not countering it. If I get thrown into spikes, fire, or lava..I asked for it by not countering it. If I get PK stabbed I shouldn't have been predictable enough to parry.

On another hand I aim to win. If we are by a sure win ledge and you didn't counter guard break me well..then Bye have a great time on the way down. It's nothing personal..I just want to win and you know the moves same as me. It's like firing a loaded gun and getting angry it went off.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 07:42 PM
Eh, I play to win by actually playing the game and dealing with someones moveset...... Throwing someone off the edge because I parried a light just isnt satisfying to me because I wanna be able to deal with movesets without throwing people off the edge. If I was a decision maker for this game, Id remove ALL environmental kills in duels so that way everyone has to play around their kit, it would truly make for a much better experience for the majority of players. (However 4v4's i can understand the ledging)

The one thing you said that stands out to me though, is "If I get PK stabbed I shouldn't have been predictable enough to parry." You do realize you can parry about 90% of things in this game on reaction right? Its not about being predictable, its literally just a reaction thing with a lot of people. I have a friend who parrys PK/Warden/Orochi zones nearly every time its thrown at him.

HazelrahFirefly
01-25-2018, 08:03 PM
BTT, I feel the same way as you about quitting because of the Aramusha. The entire season 5, 153 lvl 3 bot duels as well as plenty of PvP ones, and I am no closer.

If the Aramusha player sucks I can beat them, or if I am playing my PK I can win with a LOT of effort, but any minor skill on their part and I dont even feel like I'm playing. Makes me want to quit as well, and is why I am so frustrated in the Ara thread because all people can say is to do better, that you can block his lights, and that I suck. Its like, thanks for the advice and **** you lol. Game feels quite broken and then tryhards just say to tryhard. This community is S-Tier trash.

Alustar.
01-25-2018, 08:09 PM
You just have to stay calm about the fights. There higher up in skill you get the gayer your opponents are going to be. I'm rep 81 overall and I might not be the best, but I'd say I'm decent. The people I match play these assassin characters very cheaply, but it's about winning. I want to win too so I play just as unfairly. I'll emote in respect before the fight begins, but higher up players really don't care about anything outside of that W. I don't get salty either. If I get ledged I asked for it by not countering it. If I get thrown into spikes, fire, or lava..I asked for it by not countering it. If I get PK stabbed I shouldn't have been predictable enough to parry.

On another hand I aim to win. If we are by a sure win ledge and you didn't counter guard break me well..then Bye have a great time on the way down. It's nothing personal..I just want to win and you know the moves same as me. It's like firing a loaded gun and getting angry it went off.

This guy gets it.

BTTrinity
01-25-2018, 09:33 PM
BTT, I feel the same way as you about quitting because of the Aramusha. The entire season 5, 153 lvl 3 bot duels as well as plenty of PvP ones, and I am no closer.

If the Aramusha player sucks I can beat them, or if I am playing my PK I can win with a LOT of effort, but any minor skill on their part and I dont even feel like I'm playing. Makes me want to quit as well, and is why I am so frustrated in the Ara thread because all people can say is to do better, that you can block his lights, and that I suck. Its like, thanks for the advice and **** you lol. Game feels quite broken and then tryhards just say to tryhard. This community is S-Tier trash.

Yeah, for the first few days I had an issue with him, but I got to the point where I parry most lights he tries to initiate, and if he does catch me in his mixup game then I just dodge roll when I see the heavy finisher to reset to neutral for more light parrys (Unless he spamming, at that point, you can actually block out of his chain... but I dont play assassins). Blade Blockade is S-Tier trash, its the only full block that leaves you open to GB for 500ms after it ends, its the only full block that actually requires you to block something in order to get some use out of it and its the only full block with no guaranteed follow up (Ive had people dodge ring the bell in this latest patch) Not only that, he cant throw you left and right if he grabs you when you're both facing eachother, and can be GB'd out of his zone attack.... He has A LOT of weaknesses compared to shaman, which her only weakness is range. (Which is also a weakness for Ara)

brashtralas
01-25-2018, 09:46 PM
She is op.
But people will defend her anyway.
'Tis nothing new.

ChampionRuby50g
01-26-2018, 01:21 AM
This guy gets it.

Guy??? Or girl? But agreed, someone who understands how the game works.

The_B0G_
01-26-2018, 02:30 AM
Take away some of her throw range and give me the ability to dodge her follow up pounce after a throw and I say shes fine.

IAmOddGirl
01-26-2018, 02:58 AM
Guy??? Or girl? But agreed, someone who understands how the game works.

I'm a Dark Souls series vet lol. I loooove pvp in that game. I'm used to YOU MAKE IT WORK. Understand how many different way the game and people want to bend you over and DECLARE NO I will bend YOU OVER. LOL I accept the field as it is laid out because I love the game for what it is and how it works. Therefor, it is my job to use the tools I am given to efficiently reach my goal. I will fail many times before I reach it, but that is where good players apply resolve and commitment.

I did not fail 100 times. I just found 100 ways that do not work.

Tundra 793
01-26-2018, 03:00 AM
I did not fail 100 times. I just found 100 ways that do not work.

Damn girl, that's some intense wisdom right there.

ChampionRuby50g
01-26-2018, 11:09 AM
I'm a Dark Souls series vet lol. I loooove pvp in that game. I'm used to YOU MAKE IT WORK. Understand how many different way the game and people want to bend you over and DECLARE NO I will bend YOU OVER. LOL I accept the field as it is laid out because I love the game for what it is and how it works. Therefor, it is my job to use the tools I am given to efficiently reach my goal. I will fail many times before I reach it, but that is where good players apply resolve and commitment.

I did not fail 100 times. I just found 100 ways that do not work.

For Honor is the first fighter Iíve actually played for more than a week I think, I never really got into them until the concept of For Honor cake around as I was always a Battlefield 3/4 player, or mostly shooters. I love my single player campaigns though, and Gears of War was the first Xbox game I played years ago and fell in love with the story and brutality aha.
What Iím trying to get at though is that Iím fairly experienced at games and I can adapt to whatever it is and play them at a high level after a few weeks. All it takes is understanding that you absolutely wonít be good at a game unless you take the time to learn all the mechanics, what does and doesnít work and when you can attack, when you canít attack, etc. A lot of gamers donít have the patience for it.

IAmOddGirl
01-26-2018, 01:47 PM
Oh yes..I do love shooters as well. Started with Halo on the xbox original. I was a Halo racist until Black Ops 2 came out lol. Battlefield in my personal opinion is the last hope for shooters. It has always stayed good and intense. Mortal Kombat, Def Jam Fight for NY, and that WuTang Clan game were the only fighting games I can played until Dark Souls 1 came out.

ChampionRuby50g
01-26-2018, 02:11 PM
Oh yes..I do love shooters as well. Started with Halo on the xbox original. I was a Halo racist until Black Ops 2 came out lol. Battlefield in my personal opinion is the last hope for shooters. It has always stayed good and intense. Mortal Kombat, Def Jam Fight for NY, and that WuTang Clan game were the only fighting games I can played until Dark Souls 1 came out.

Cod died for me after MW3, but even so I never really liked the Black ops series, besides the 1st ones campaign.
I liked how battlefield tried to branch out with hardline, but that game looked good on paper but didnít transfer well into actual gameplay.
Battlefield 1 was a really good game too, but I remember a bug on the first week that increased your load out XP gain by heaps and i had unlocked all the guns for every class within a few days. But it still lacked content and died for me.

Alustar.
01-26-2018, 04:17 PM
I'm a Dark Souls series vet lol. I loooove pvp in that game. I'm used to YOU MAKE IT WORK. Understand how many different way the game and people want to bend you over and DECLARE NO I will bend YOU OVER. LOL I accept the field as it is laid out because I love the game for what it is and how it works. Therefor, it is my job to use the tools I am given to efficiently reach my goal. I will fail many times before I reach it, but that is where good players apply resolve and commitment.

I did not fail 100 times. I just found 100 ways that do not work.

I come from an MMO background, competitively. And that right there is exactly how I learned how to assassin.

IAmOddGirl
01-26-2018, 06:21 PM
Cod died for me after MW3, but even so I never really liked the Black ops series, besides the 1st ones campaign.
I liked how battlefield tried to branch out with hardline, but that game looked good on paper but didn’t transfer well into actual gameplay.
Battlefield 1 was a really good game too, but I remember a bug on the first week that increased your load out XP gain by heaps and i had unlocked all the guns for every class within a few days. But it still lacked content and died for me.

Battlefield Hardline was only meant to do one thing. Take advantage of Cod's Community outrage at the movement systems and absorb the populations. Giving CoD players a game similar to COD's pace with the aspects of Battlefield sprinkled in. Kind of like giving them their type of game with a way to learn the real Battlefield experience enough to prepare them for the series. BF4 purchases actually increased after the release of Hardline. New players wanted to see what all Battlefield had to offer. I love BF1 and I really liked Hardline. I'm also just easy to please with games. IDC what its like or not like..if its fun I'll play it. I loved Black Ops 2 and Ghosts for CoD but absolutely despised the jet packing stuff.

JadeBosson.
01-27-2018, 03:31 AM
saying she's op is the new meme lol

BTTrinity
01-27-2018, 04:23 AM
saying she's op is the new meme lol

More like Cent (Multiplied by 3) v2

alexinio05
10-21-2018, 02:50 PM
I NEVER got beaten by a shaman.. idk what everyone is talking about

Sinangel3
10-21-2018, 03:16 PM
She plays a lot like a highly aggressive ganker. As someone who mained her for a period of time, i love that she feels powerful and capable but if uoure getting demolished by shaman it is for one of two reasons:

1: whoever is playing her is banking hard on the "surprise" effect. Gap close, unblockable, (on easier opponents who dont react to the gank so quickly, let it fly cause it will hit.) Light for bleed, tackle to pounce. This combo is staple if you get what i call a "mouse". These are your newer players who experience a moment of panic when they get ganked or see a shaman and they stop reacting as they would any other hero. They are easy to kill because you dont need to feint. You let the fear allow you to pop of your hard hitting combo. (This was my play style)

Or

2: the one who is actually really good at for honor. Good at feinting, good at dodging, good at parrying, good at it all. These people play much like level 3 bots. And with this person, you have to jnderstand that they will beat you with almost any body because they have such good control of the basics. Does shaman hurt? No, but take these guys with a grain of salt.

Now, for the other shamans, for the ones who play like 1. The eesponse is simple. Dont. Get. Ganked. As a raider, i loved fighting shamans. I would win every time. I dont turtle cause im not super great at it but as a raider, i can beat a shaman by getting the drop on her. As jiang jun, if she doesnt get the drop on me, i will usually win. If i get bled, i tend to lose, but thats because im not good at dodging that tackle.

An aggressive shaman feels unbeatable but if you notice you have one on the field, just keep your eyes peeled.

The only nerf id possibly recommend for her is getting rid of the stealth feat. It makes it very hard to avoid her ganks, but its also what made her so fun.

DefiledDragon
10-21-2018, 05:01 PM
She's clearly a designer favourite. Her kit has all the best parts of everybody else's kit and she has no weaknesses. Unblockables? Check. Bleed? Check. Dodge attacks? Check. DE only 3 times as fast without the crippling punishment on a miss? Check. Soft feints into Light/Bleed/GB? Check. The only thing she doesn't have is Conquerors super safe bash spam and his ridiculous option select. Compared to the rest of the cast, with the possible exception of Kensei who's also really flexible, she's WTF OP. That doesn't mean she's unbeatable, but she's vastly superior to the rest of the roster.

Knight_Raime
10-21-2018, 10:42 PM
She's clearly a designer favourite. Her kit has all the best parts of everybody else's kit and she has no weaknesses. Unblockables? Check. Bleed? Check. Dodge attacks? Check. DE only 3 times as fast without the crippling punishment on a miss? Check. Soft feints into Light/Bleed/GB? Check. The only thing she doesn't have is Conquerors super safe bash spam and his ridiculous option select. Compared to the rest of the cast, with the possible exception of Kensei who's also really flexible, she's WTF OP. That doesn't mean she's unbeatable, but she's vastly superior to the rest of the roster.

Only commenting to correct something here. she does have weaknesses. Most of her attacks have short range like centurion. And her damage profile outside of max punishes and bite is rather low (unless she has bleed procced and you want to count the damage swing involved with that. giving her basic attacks slightly more value.) anyway, her jumping heavy is also useless due to how telegraphed it is. And so is it's soft feint with the bash due to the start up animation each time you do it. Which makes her vulnerable. But her biggest weakness is that all of her mix ups if read properly net the entire cast AT LEAST a guard break. (other heros have some stronger specific punishes like centurion getting his combo.) Combine that with her poor defensive tools and that's what keeps her in A tier for duels. She's only S tier in 4's because of bite and what it enables for her team.

DefiledDragon
10-22-2018, 03:00 AM
Only commenting to correct something here. she does have weaknesses. Most of her attacks have short range like centurion. And her damage profile outside of max punishes and bite is rather low (unless she has bleed procced and you want to count the damage swing involved with that. giving her basic attacks slightly more value.) anyway, her jumping heavy is also useless due to how telegraphed it is. And so is it's soft feint with the bash due to the start up animation each time you do it. Which makes her vulnerable. But her biggest weakness is that all of her mix ups if read properly net the entire cast AT LEAST a guard break. (other heros have some stronger specific punishes like centurion getting his combo.) Combine that with her poor defensive tools and that's what keeps her in A tier for duels. She's only S tier in 4's because of bite and what it enables for her team.

I wouldn't say she had poor defensive tools. Her defence is as robust as any other assassin and a good Shaman can keep you under significant and effective pressure. As I said, she's not unbeatable, but her kit puts the rest of the cast (not necessarily the Wu Lin) to shame. If I was going to play For Honor seriously and didn't feel she was out of place on the roster with her zombie like tendencies, Shaman along with Kensei or Shaolin would be my go to pick, no question..

MarshalMoriarty
10-22-2018, 03:20 AM
The fact she can heal simply by hitting enemies who are bleeding adds plenty of durability. She's always been extremely irritating, but its the fact that the rest of the roster haven't risen to her level as was frequently claimed would happen that is most concerning.

If they don't intend to make the OG heroes as rounded and flexible and only favour dlc heroes (because again - Jian Jun... WTF?!), then that's depressing beyond words.

Buggy.Blaster
10-22-2018, 07:50 AM
shaman needs a buff. she's kinda ****ty to be honest.

Daubenyfanclub
10-22-2018, 03:00 PM
Shaman is really only powerful in 4's (which, to be fair, a lot of middling heroes are in a gank/team setting).

In a duel she has a robust kit, but nothing broken. Bite is almost as hard to land at times as Valk's sweep or Cent's cutscene in duels given the ease of which you can dodge the bite (side dodge to any direction can net a punish if you're careful, which can easily put her on the ropes). The only reason blood trance is really useful in duels is for the minor heal if you can land damage after a bleed (which also doesn't often come in to play, given that her bleed attacks are only after chains and as a soft feint out of a heavy opener, which means that most of the time your guard is already up in that direction.) Her heavy unblockable combo is her best damage dealer right after the bite but is only really used for OOS punishes, due to how slow it is.

She has a lot of potential, like most every assassin, but she's not forgiving. Reflex guard means that Shaman has a lower defense, and with a smaller pool of HP being aggressive is a must. Shaman's kit isn't really meant to take much punishment.