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Roseguard_Cpt
11-15-2017, 05:10 PM
It is quite obvious with the new characters that have joined the Frey that there is an extreme focus on aggression in fights. This is a step in the right direction but many are struggling versus the Shaman, after having played her a little I can say that while she is a strong character and very good at opening up turtles, her big weakness, especially with everyone being new to this "OP" hero, is the recklessness. Much like with Centurion heavy into UB spam in season 2, you just need to keep a level head and look for openings in her moves to shift the momentum on her. Shaman is good at dealing out damage but not so good at taking it. My only major issue is with Shaman ganks being much like Cent ganks with all the UBs and pins (still trying to figure this one out). Otherwise just stay calm and be aggressive and they're nigh helpless in 1v1 situations. Hope this helps a little, we'll see how things go as the season progresses, just keep the pressure on them.

Side-note: It seems you can get a free GB is you block her light bleed

subdude1974
11-16-2017, 02:24 AM
Sorry, but no. She is complete And utterly OP with moves coming out of every orifice. Insanely OP. Strength, speed, bleed, unblockables, misdirection, feints, range, regains health with certain moves, her attacks track like a bloodhound and regens pretty quick. Probably other perks to her as well that I donít know about but I donít have her. She is so stupid OP that it isnít funny. Anybody arguing she isnít is using her and enjoys destroying Rep 100 players with a level 1 rep 0. Absolute fuqqing joke.

We.the.North
11-16-2017, 02:36 AM
She is not balanced.

First, Shaman has nearly every moves in the game :
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/7d0qdv/shaman_has_nearly_every_mechanic_in_the_game/

Second : Go and check the damage charts. Despite copying other characters' move, she'll deal more damage with it. Just check the crazy damage of her dodge attack for instance. Other than damage, notice the superior RANGE on her leap attack ... and the superior tracking of her pounce.

Third : Some moves are "similar" to other moves in the game, but so much better at the same time. Check this comparison between Shugo's Hug and her bite
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/7czsfv/shamans_predators_mercy_vs_shugokis_demons_embrace/

Fourth : Check her feats. Flesh wound as got to be one of the best level 2 feats in the game, throw axe is nice and second wind might just be the best 3rd feat in the game beside sharpen blade, and SCOUT (for those brave enough to have ever played Valkyrie) is extremely strong.


If after all this you still think Shaman is balanced, there is no point arguing with you.

Dude_of_Valor
11-16-2017, 11:16 AM
She is not balanced.

First, Shaman has nearly every moves in the game :
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/7d0qdv/shaman_has_nearly_every_mechanic_in_the_game/

Second : Go and check the damage charts. Despite copying other characters' move, she'll deal more damage with it. Just check the crazy damage of her dodge attack for instance. Other than damage, notice the superior RANGE on her leap attack ... and the superior tracking of her pounce.

Third : Some moves are "similar" to other moves in the game, but so much better at the same time. Check this comparison between Shugo's Hug and her bite
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/7czsfv/shamans_predators_mercy_vs_shugokis_demons_embrace/

Fourth : Check her feats. Flesh wound as got to be one of the best level 2 feats in the game, throw axe is nice and second wind might just be the best 3rd feat in the game beside sharpen blade, and SCOUT (for those brave enough to have ever played Valkyrie) is extremely strong.


If after all this you still think Shaman is balanced, there is no point arguing with you.

This^^ It is insane when you break down everything that the shaman can do.

Tyler-Durdin
11-16-2017, 11:27 AM
Many of you should try practicing against the shaman bot.
Many of her so called Op moves are dodgeable and punishable.
Every new character that has been released has had the hate put on them (this time in the 1st couple of hours of release) because everyone thinks there skill is absolute.
The days of the turtle meta is drawing to an end , time for everyone to upskill otherwise you will all be back here crying again.

Devils-_-legacy
11-16-2017, 03:13 PM
No I think the hate is to do with the hero's them self as someone already stated she has almost every move but they gave her a better version she's a hybrid of all the classes but marked as a assassin she has the strongest kit in the game and they say to they aim to make the game balanced but everyone new hero pushes far away from that goal why do you think they get hate shinobi (kick spam) cent (jab spam) glad(toe spam) highlander (he needs a buff tbf) ronin (lights spam can be gb ed out of lights wtf) and now shaman (bite spam light spam heal on bleed shinobi tier 4 feat tweaked and given to her as a natural ability) to say her kit isn't amazing is a huge understatment I'm not sure how the devs are going to bring the rest of roster on to her level

subdude1974
11-16-2017, 06:32 PM
There are so many problems with the character it is insane. I hear what you say but what I truly hear is, ďAfter Shaman has dropped a hydrogen bomb on you and are lucky, and are still alive and have some stamina left, try to guess which one of the hundred different moves she can make from there, and if you guess right you can shoot her with a B.B. gun before she finishes you off with her grenade. Guess wrong and it is an even quicker death.Ē Truth is that with every other new character has come out, there has been an adjustment period for sure. I didnít start playing the game til after Shenobi and Centurion was released. Gladiator and Highlander were tricky at first but they never decimated me like these. I still say that the Aramusha is OP as well due to speed alone. I truly believe that once people actually learn to use him, he will be truly sickening to deal with. But Shaman is ridiculously OP and it isnít even close. The fact they put so much into this character and the other changes but didnít fix other issues proves to me that either UBISOFT is a bunch of idiots that have the IQ of a hammer or donít give a damn about its customers.

Tha Dr Pigeon
11-16-2017, 09:57 PM
You literally keep relying on the same point, over and over again. She is strong, but also easy to counter. Aramusha can almost directly counter her if you play her right, as well as our lord and savior Lawbringer. Block her attacks, and throw a light out when you know she will feint the attack. Only her dash attacks have hyper armor, nothing else.

Netcode_err_404
11-16-2017, 10:02 PM
You literally keep relying on the same point, over and over again. She is strong, but also easy to counter. Aramusha can almost directly counter her if you play her right, as well as our lord and savior Lawbringer. Block her attacks, and throw a light out when you know she will feint the attack. Only her dash attacks have hyper armor, nothing else.

LB block shove shoudn't even exixt lol

SirFersMcSchwag
06-28-2018, 12:30 PM
i can easly beat most shamans i have fought. even with valk. figure out her moves in arena training. you don't need to buy her for that.

Alustar.
06-28-2018, 01:08 PM
You literally keep relying on the same point, over and over again. She is strong, but also easy to counter. Aramusha can almost directly counter her if you play her right, as well as our lord and savior Lawbringer. Block her attacks, and throw a light out when you know she will feint the attack. Only her dash attacks have hyper armor, nothing else.

nothing she can do has hyper armor.

DrinkinMehStella
06-28-2018, 01:35 PM
you have to think to much when fighting her because of how much variety she has in her move set it makes her hard to fight against especially an experienced shaman, you have to think about blocking top, then think about not getting GB, then you have to think about her dodge attacks and then her soft feints and then which direction her attacks could come from, basically when you have to think about that much with one character it makes it too easy to get caught by a GB or get caught by her pounce thing and it becomes too overwhelming.

Alustar.
06-28-2018, 01:46 PM
That's where learning her kit helps. For example, she can only dodge feint her heavy finishers, not heavy starters. Like wise, she can only bleed feint her heavy starters, not her finishers. Additionally, only Wildcats rage and predators hunger/mercy are guaranteed from a throw, and the follow-up heavy after that is easily parried, so watch for GB or dodge feint.

DrinkinMehStella
06-28-2018, 01:54 PM
she's the only one I struggle with reacting to.

We.the.North
06-28-2018, 02:26 PM
Many of you should try practicing against the shaman bot.
Many of her so called Op moves are dodgeable and punishable.

I hate this argument. Every single character in the game is punishable and beatable. Every. Single. Character.

HOWEVER, in a discussion about game balance , it's not a matter of if xyz move is punishable ; it's a matter of whether those moves are easier/harder to punish and how much damage they do compared to moves own by other classes in the game.

Let me give you an exemple : Her Leap Attack

As a Shinobi player, it is extremely easy for me to punish 95% of the moves in this game simply by doing a double dodge + kick. Not the Shaman leap. To punish it that way, I need to make sure I'm quite far away from the Shaman before she performs her leap attack, otherwise my kick will whiff in the air because the Shaman is too far away after her lea attack. Not a single character in this game after performing a dodge attack has the ability to create so much distance from his enemy, he becomes safe from counter attacks.

Let me give you another exemple : Her OOS punish

Shaman has broken recovery on her attack. For instance, if she perform a heavy on you, the following heavy soft feint + guardbreak will be done faster than a Shinobi can spam light attack during his hit recovery from her heavy attack. Read that again, A shinobi can't light attack before the Shaman can feint into a guardbreak. Again, since she's the only character in the game fast enough to perform this stupidly fast, I get caught by it quite often (I'm used to light attacking GB attempts against other characters). Unfortunatly for me, guardbreak and throws drains stamina and a Shaman abusing it will often throw me on the ground OOS. What's the punish for that ??

Leap attack + Heavy + Bleed. Yep, a full 3 attacks for a total of 69 damage (without gear) ... and you're bleeding. If she catches you afterward with her bite attack, you're done. That's the highest OOS punish in the game.

TLDR : Crazy mobility with great tracking, very good damage output even after the nerf, nearly every moves in the game, extremely strong feats, ******ed recovery on her attacks, very far throw distance, highest oos punish in the game, etc.

Shaman is broken.

RexXZ347
06-28-2018, 02:45 PM
Shaman can be reacted on PC. But on console.... Pick up what you can and run.

We.the.North
06-28-2018, 03:00 PM
Shaman can be reacted on PC. But on console.... Pick up what you can and run.


I hate this argument. Every single character in the game is punishable and beatable. Every. Single. Character.

HOWEVER, in a discussion about game balance , it's not a matter of if xyz move is punishable ; it's a matter of whether those moves are easier/harder to punish and how much damage they do compared to moves own by other classes in the game.

Stop saying a character "can be reacted", that's now how a discussion about balance works.

Tyrjo
06-28-2018, 04:17 PM
My main gripe with the Shaman is her bite. It's too fast at 400ms, it's easy to "feint" with a back dodge, and it's a 70HP swing. It's simply too good.

Alustar.
06-28-2018, 06:01 PM
I hate this argument. Every single character in the game is punishable and beatable. Every. Single. Character.

HOWEVER, in a discussion about game balance , it's not a matter of if xyz move is punishable ; it's a matter of whether those moves are easier/harder to punish and how much damage they do compared to moves own by other classes in the game.

Let me give you an exemple : Her Leap Attack

As a Shinobi player, it is extremely easy for me to punish 95% of the moves in this game simply by doing a double dodge + kick. Not the Shaman leap. To punish it that way, I need to make sure I'm quite far away from the Shaman before she performs her leap attack, otherwise my kick will whiff in the air because the Shaman is too far away after her lea attack. Not a single character in this game after performing a dodge attack has the ability to create so much distance from his enemy, he becomes safe from counter attacks.

Let me give you another exemple : Her OOS punish

Shaman has broken recovery on her attack. For instance, if she perform a heavy on you, the following heavy soft feint + guardbreak will be done faster than a Shinobi can spam light attack during his hit recovery from her heavy attack. Read that again, A shinobi can't light attack before the Shaman can feint into a guardbreak. Again, since she's the only character in the game fast enough to perform this stupidly fast, I get caught by it quite often (I'm used to light attacking GB attempts against other characters). Unfortunatly for me, guardbreak and throws drains stamina and a Shaman abusing it will often throw me on the ground OOS. What's the punish for that ??

Leap attack + Heavy + Bleed. Yep, a full 3 attacks for a total of 69 damage (without gear) ... and you're bleeding. If she catches you afterward with her bite attack, you're done. That's the highest OOS punish in the game.

TLDR : Crazy mobility with great tracking, very good damage output even after the nerf, nearly every moves in the game, extremely strong feats, ******ed recovery on her attacks, very far throw distance, highest oos punish in the game, etc.

Shaman is broken.

The problem with this statement is that you you say your one move that works in 95% of the cast doesn't on shaman. First off, I don't think that's very true since there are other forward moving attacks that put the user at a distance on a whiffed hit. Second, there is a logical fallacy when you expect to be able to use the same tactics across the board with the same degree of success. That's an unrealistic expectation. Second, if you know this ahead of time, why go for a double dodge. Just dodge once and punish with a GB like you should do. The reason you are out of range is because your first dodge to the side puts you just out of reach of the hit and to the left or right of the shaman. The second dodge takes you one step further
Behind your opponent while they continue the forward motion, and this, it off your effective range.

DoodTheMan
06-28-2018, 06:22 PM
Shaman was made to be an offensive-focused character to beat out turtles. Her own defense and reactions are pretty bad, and she's only really successful if she overwhelms you with her combos, so if you use her own strategy against her then she's pretty far up ish creak.

BABYnipss
08-26-2018, 10:49 AM
I recently started using Shaman as a secondary, Nobushi being my main. So going from a range to up in your personal space heroe is odd for me. However she is OP when you know how to use her, she is one of those heroes that are a pest and is annoying. But in saying that, she has her downfalls personally for me she doesn't handle hits and is easily overwhelmed.

I could be wrong and it's just me, but overall she is a scary person to come across.

Side note: I finally used Orochi for the first time, my lord that light attack spam to fake heavy then light spam is stupid haha.

Helnekromancer
08-26-2018, 10:36 PM
The only problem I have with Shaman is her 20ft leap, I main Nobushi and Valk and having this crackheaded barby doll, invade my personal space with one move is ridiculous. Once she's there there is no way I can get my space back because everything she does can get feinted into something else which also leads into something else.

Also, why is she the only fighter who can grab you, throw you back, and get a free hit. She doesn't even wallsplat you, just randomly pushes you backwards and has enough recovery to sneak in a free heavy while you are still in the animation? This character is really stupid and frustrating to deal with, I can beat her but it's very stressful.