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View Full Version : Demon Embrace vs Shaman Pounce.



Mirage6201
11-15-2017, 05:19 AM
Found it funny that I used my demon embrace on a shaman only for her to counter with the pounce. Guess what happened.... I lost all my life since they negated each other.

Why does the Shaman not get punished the same way Shugoki does?

Btw on Xbox kudos on making another spammy assasain.

SenBotsu893
11-15-2017, 02:57 PM
very confusing indeed if you compare those two similar moves.

demon embrace -> no tracking at all, long wind up animation, selfinflicting damage upon miss, eternal recovery animation
predators mercy -> insane tracking, lighting fast, 2nd chance upon miss, no risk in using it

Netcode_err_404
11-15-2017, 03:11 PM
don't ask such a questions OP.

This is for honor, **** the logic, and just shut up and play.

David_gorda
11-15-2017, 03:20 PM
Shaman seem like a balanced Class lol. The pvp balancing team is a Joke.

Netcode_err_404
11-15-2017, 03:42 PM
Shaman seem like a balanced Class lol. The pvp balancing team is a Joke.

theres is probably one single dude.

David_gorda
11-15-2017, 03:48 PM
theres is probably one single dude. yeah and he probably never played a pvp Game lol.

Vakris_One
11-15-2017, 03:58 PM
very confusing indeed if you compare those two similar moves.

demon embrace -> no tracking at all, long wind up animation, selfinflicting damage upon miss, eternal recovery animation
predators mercy -> insane tracking, lighting fast, 2nd chance upon miss, no risk in using it
They're only similiar in that they recover health and stamina for the guy doing it. Shugo's embrace can one shot kill you if he's low on health, it's a high risk, high reward move. Shaman's Dracula pounce hits for almost 2 bars of health and she doesn't get hyper armour so she can be disrupted out of it with a hit. Hers is meant to pressure you if you're bleeding so you'll be forced to go aggressive if you want to keep her from pouncing on you. Shugo's is a constant threat from wall splats and plays more as part of his punishes. In dire situations he can use his hyper armour to grab you through an attack.

Her tracking needs to be looked that but all in all both moves have their respective pluses and minuses.

CandleInTheDark
11-15-2017, 04:48 PM
While the tracking needs dealing with and maybe the damage, I think the fact Demons Embrace can come at any time (as opposed to a specific circumstance of bleeding), that it can 1 hit ko and that it will go through an attack rather than knocking him out of it more than balances the lack of damage on miss for the Shaman.

CandleInTheDark
11-15-2017, 05:41 PM
dude u are wrong. no false facts in forums here we have enough false fact spreaders.. thanks
if you are a good player and you have also good teammates its very easy to time attacks perfectly with the bite. So you will eat the bite + topheavies (1 for each player nearby). so you are dead :) enjoy..

Ah fair enough, so far I have either had the bite come off with no one around or been knocked out of it, no middle ground lol. I'm not someone who will deliberately spread fake news and I didn't clarify in this post as I did an earlier that it was to the best of my knowledge with my experience so mea culpa. I have edited that bit out of my original post

Still, my other points on the balancing between the moves I very much hold to, you can't expect a move that does not have all the benefits of the one your character has to also have the drawback.

SenBotsu893
11-15-2017, 07:56 PM
They're only similiar in that they recover health and stamina for the guy doing it. Shugo's embrace can one shot kill you if he's low on health, it's a high risk, high reward move. Shaman's Dracula pounce hits for almost 2 bars of health and she doesn't get hyper armour so she can be disrupted out of it with a hit. Hers is meant to pressure you if you're bleeding so you'll be forced to go aggressive if you want to keep her from pouncing on you. Shugo's is a constant threat from wall splats and plays more as part of his punishes. In dire situations he can use his hyper armour to grab you through an attack.

Her tracking needs to be looked that but all in all both moves have their respective pluses and minuses.

those 2 moves are more similar in execution but one is infinitley superior to the other thats why the comparison.
another few things shaman gets delivered on a silver platter in comparison with shugokis embrace:

demon embrace does not recover stamina, predators mercy does.
demon embrace NEEDS a wallsplat to connect since his tracking got so nerfed into the ground, predatory mercy is also guaranteed from a gb.

also how many times have you been 1 shotted by demon embrace? in my about 800 hours i gues that happend once.
shugoki going under 25 hp is such a rare thing becasue he takes 25% more damage than any other hero. hence its rare for it to trigger.

Vakris_One
11-15-2017, 08:58 PM
those 2 moves are more similar in execution but one is infinitley superior to the other thats why the comparison.
another few things shaman gets delivered on a silver platter in comparison with shugokis embrace:

demon embrace does not recover stamina, predators mercy does.
demon embrace NEEDS a wallsplat to connect since his tracking got so nerfed into the ground, predatory mercy is also guaranteed from a gb.

also how many times have you been 1 shotted by demon embrace? in my about 800 hours i gues that happend once.
shugoki going under 25 hp is such a rare thing becasue he takes 25% more damage than any other hero. hence its rare for it to trigger.
Oh, I've been one shotted plenty of times by DE. Mostly in the team modes but in 1v1s as well. Mis-time one single counter GB and pay for it with most if not all of your life and all that after wittling down a Shugo's health - which is no mean feat while playing the highly telegraphed Kensei. Shugo really is the chatacter that forced me to improve my counter GB game.

I'm pretty sure Shugo recovers his stamina from DE. I haven't payed ultra attention to it but it would be strange if he doesn't for such an all or nothing move. Predator's mercy doesn't have as big a payoff as Shugo's embrace so I don't see why it should have the same penalties. It needs a bleed to be applied to activate its use so that's very similiar to Shugo needing a wallsplat to guarrantee his.

The things I would adjust about predator's mercy is:
- lower the damage to 1 bar as she also gets the damage from any remaining bleed on the target. All together that's plenty damage even if you just get half a bar on top from any remaining bleed.
- Lower the stamina recovered by half. She doesn't need a full stamina regen because the move itself doesn't cost a ton of stamina to do.
- Adjust the tracking if necessary after testing and feedback.

SenBotsu893
11-15-2017, 09:38 PM
I'm pretty sure Shugo recovers his stamina from DE. I haven't payed ultra attention to it but it would be strange if he doesn't for such an all or nothing move. Predator's mercy doesn't have as big a payoff as Shugo's embrace so I don't see why it should have the same penalties. It needs a bleed to be applied to activate its use so that's very similiar to Shugo needing a wallsplat to guarrantee his.


trust me it doesnt regen stamina.

and i dont mind the damage on predators mercy, afterall its the only thing thats the same with demon embrace -> 40 damage

what needs to be changed is as you already said the tracking and the wind up time needs to be longer.
as of now you get hit by softfeinted bleed stab and immedatly get pounced. no time to react.

Netcode_err_404
11-15-2017, 09:40 PM
trust me it doesnt regen stamina.

and i dont mind the damage on predators mercy, afterall its the only thing thats the same with demon embrace -> 40 damage

what needs to be changed is as you already said the tracking and the wind up time needs to be longer.
as of now you get hit by softfeinted bleed stab and immedatly get pounced. no time to react.

it does 60 damage. not 40.

gj4063
11-15-2017, 10:20 PM
Shug is dead, long live the Shug!

UbiJurassic
11-15-2017, 11:32 PM
There are some good points brought up in this thread. As it has already been said, there are positives and negatives to both the Shaman's Pounce and the Shugoki's Demon Embrace and both are situational in use. I'll certainly forward the feedback from this thread though.


Also, the tracking with Shaman's Pounce should be fixed in the next patch. :)