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Mike8686
09-04-2004, 05:32 AM
Its is just me or am I turning as good (maybe better) than a spitty in my 109 G6/AS? I usually energy fight but sometimes get greedy and go into heavy TnB. Everytime I've followed spitty into TnB I've had no trouble keeping up, how woul u splain this if Spitty9 supposedly turns so well. Also often when spitty gets on my 6 I start to climb and turn in one direction (spiral climb i think it is) while watching him carefully just in case, and usually when I do this the spitty9 eventually cant continue climbing and just levels out and flys in one direction making it easy for me to reposition for attack. I thought spitty was also suppose to climb better than pretty much everything. Shouldnt spitty be able to outperform me in absolutely every way when I'm in a 109? Whats going on? Is spitty undermodelled????

Mike8686
09-04-2004, 05:32 AM
Its is just me or am I turning as good (maybe better) than a spitty in my 109 G6/AS? I usually energy fight but sometimes get greedy and go into heavy TnB. Everytime I've followed spitty into TnB I've had no trouble keeping up, how woul u splain this if Spitty9 supposedly turns so well. Also often when spitty gets on my 6 I start to climb and turn in one direction (spiral climb i think it is) while watching him carefully just in case, and usually when I do this the spitty9 eventually cant continue climbing and just levels out and flys in one direction making it easy for me to reposition for attack. I thought spitty was also suppose to climb better than pretty much everything. Shouldnt spitty be able to outperform me in absolutely every way when I'm in a 109? Whats going on? Is spitty undermodelled????

robban75
09-04-2004, 05:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is spitty undermodelled????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

AlexDavies
09-04-2004, 05:44 AM
remember mike, it's the 109E that fought against the spitty in the battle of britain. you are using a late model 109.

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KaRaYa-X
09-04-2004, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is spitty undermodelled????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL! robban that's just my thought, too

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Mike8686
09-04-2004, 05:54 AM
I'm talking about the Spitty9, the 1943 spitfire

Zmir88IAP
09-04-2004, 05:59 AM
Than you should use a Bf109-G6(without AS!) against her http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You will feel how the Mk.IX ruled the 109 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

PS: Wait for the Spit Mk.XIV for the G6AS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Monty_Thrud
09-04-2004, 06:01 AM
Well from the books i've read about the Spitfires MkI/V/IX they should outturn their equivalent mk 109's, but ingame(online) they, at best can equal them...and as for the climb there seems to be a lot of debate about her being overmodelled above 6000m in speed and as for climbing i find if you use the WEP when climbing in the chase she should be able to catch 109's but not always...it depends on the situation.

Anyway you can always guarantee a multi page thread with the mention of a Spitfire

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
09-04-2004, 06:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
Its is just me or am I turning as good (maybe better) than a spitty in my 109 G6/AS? I usually energy fight but sometimes get greedy and go into heavy TnB. Everytime I've followed spitty into TnB I've had no trouble keeping up, how woul u splain this if Spitty9 supposedly turns so well. Also often when spitty gets on my 6 I start to climb and turn in one direction (spiral climb i think it is) while watching him carefully just in case, and usually when I do this the spitty9 eventually cant continue climbing and just levels out and flys in one direction making it easy for me to reposition for attack. I thought spitty was also suppose to climb better than pretty much everything. Shouldnt spitty be able to outperform me in absolutely every way when I'm in a 109? Whats going on? Is spitty undermodelled????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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well what to say ,but your the first guy which i heard of who thinks/feels the spitfire is undermodeled
are you sure ur playing FB/AEP v2.04?
i dont fly the spit online because i dont like it ,but i can tell you that they are a pain to fight against in any axis plane ,in what kind of servers are you playing ?

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WUAF_Badsight
09-04-2004, 06:26 AM
if i was the type to fly one plane only . . . . . . .

& if that plane happened to be the Spitfire . . . . . . .


i SURE AS HELL wouldnt be complaining lol

.
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WUAF_Badsight
09-04-2004, 06:28 AM
if you dont use flaps in either

plane . . . . . . then the Spitfires win in level turns . . . . . . just

were flaps used IRL like they are online ? , i doubt it

.
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actual UBI post :
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Mike8686
09-04-2004, 06:32 AM
I dont think the spitty is undermodelled, in fact I think they are overmodelled in a few ways, this is just my first (and unsuccessfuly) fishing trip http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

However the main purpose of my post was to figure out whether or not I really should be able to keep up w/spits and outclimb them in G6/as, or if I've just probably been lucky or something lately.

mynameisroland
09-04-2004, 06:37 AM
Most German pilots who flew captured spitfires commented that both aircraft were pretty much on par with each other and it would come down to pilot skill in a dog fight not individual aircraft advantage.

When reading a lot of British comparisons of the 109 vs the spit ,tempest , mustang ect you tend to fing they are flying earlier models of the 109 vs the latest model allied plane in the tests also on some occasions it would be the gunpod version of the 109.

This is prob due to the fact they rarely had acces to the latest 109 versions they could only compared those that they had captured. But it would be false to suggest that there was a great disparity between the spit and the 109 (for versions in the same time period)

If you look at climb rates the 109 G2 outclimbs the spit and performs better at very high altitude. The 109K also out climbs and outspeeds the Mk xiv spit. The G6 is a bit of a lame duck in base form vs an Ix but if it is clean and has Mw50 boost then it is again comparable in performance.

mynameisroland
09-04-2004, 06:40 AM
Also - anybody here read Len Deightons book 'Fighter' ? It has the respective turning circles of BoB spit, hurri and 109e and it shows that if pushed the 109e had the tightest turn.

It stressed that it required great pilot skill to hold the aircraft above just above stall and due to the slats opening on the leading edge (something that british test pilots hated).

But this also would explain some accounts where german pilots have claimed that the could out turn a spitfire quite easily.

Again the pointer here would be pilot skill

3.JG51_Stecher
09-04-2004, 06:42 AM
Mike, are you talking online or offline?

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Mike8686
09-04-2004, 06:46 AM
Online'O'Course

ploughman
09-04-2004, 08:06 AM
A lot of the Spit's reputation comes from it being pretty forgiving for a high-performance combat aircraft. The 109 was much harder to fly.

This is an aspect of these aircraft that is almost lost on us cyber pilots but was central to their reputations.

Franzen
09-04-2004, 08:13 AM
I love flying a 109G4 or the 190A4 against enemy Spits online. My only advise for the Spit is R.I.P, rest in pieces! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Nothing more satisfying than killing "ubers" with my "unters". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Fritz Franzen

Kurfurst__
09-04-2004, 08:19 AM
The G-6/AS has a lot more power for it`s lighter airframe:

DB 605ASM`s 1800 HP at SL with for 3.272 ton airframe, which translates to 550 HP/ton power to weight ratio.

Merlin 66`s 1680 HP at SL with for 3.36 ton airframe, which translates to 500 HP/ton power to weight ratio, 10% worser.

Considering the 109G`s smaller drag as well, the answer is probalbly that the G-6/AS finds it easier to keep up the speed/energy during the turns.

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VW-IceFire
09-04-2004, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
Its is just me or am I turning as good (maybe better) than a spitty in my 109 G6/AS? I usually energy fight but sometimes get greedy and go into heavy TnB. Everytime I've followed spitty into TnB I've had no trouble keeping up, how woul u splain this if Spitty9 supposedly turns so well. Also often when spitty gets on my 6 I start to climb and turn in one direction (spiral climb i think it is) while watching him carefully just in case, and usually when I do this the spitty9 eventually cant continue climbing and just levels out and flys in one direction making it easy for me to reposition for attack. I thought spitty was also suppose to climb better than pretty much everything. Shouldnt spitty be able to outperform me in absolutely every way when I'm in a 109? Whats going on? Is spitty undermodelled????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well I don't know so much about the actual performance of the Bf 109G-6A/S but its an upgrade of the usual G-6's and this puts it in the 1944 timeslot. Around this time, you'd start to see Spitfire LF IX's rated at 24lbs boost instead of 16lbs boost like the 1943 variants we have.

So its a 1944 Bf 109G with probably the best power to weight and handling qualities of the lineup (or so it seems in-game anyways) and plus the fact that its similarly matched to a Spitfire in performance anyways makes it a very dangerous opponent. In a slower speed turn the G-6A/S is better turning than the IX is. The situation is reversed at 400 kph where the IX has a better turn than the G-6 does.

So as pilots of both you need to use those to your advantage and learn to fight with your plane. The two are a deadly match for each other with the G-6A/S being ever so slightly better. Still, the differences come down to pilot.

Spitfire XIV will not entirely redress this since it'll be more analogous to the Bf 109K-4 in its weight and power.

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jugent
09-04-2004, 02:47 PM
If you are flying against a AI-oponent, its a known trick that if you are turning at low altitude, after a few turns tha AI flies away. Dont try this on an online server if you dont want to practice as a drone.
I think that the spit is so good that it is no fun flying it online anymore.
If you want a real challange fly a german plane online.